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Gayle in MD
10-30-2011, 06:53 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WASHINGTON -- The nation's ongoing economic downturn has sparked an odd response from a growing number of conservative and Republican leaders: a desire to blame the unfortunate and a demand for the poor to pay more.

With the economy in its deepest crater since the Great Depression and the GOP pushed by the aggressively anti-tax Tea Party, the call to have the middle and working classes help the rich has reached levels not heard since Reagan-era attacks on the mythical "welfare queens."

It's most often expressed in the growing complaint that about half the nation's households pay no federal income tax -- an accurate figure that varies from 46 percent to 51 percent, depending on which set of statistics are being used.

Take Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas), chairman of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, who complained over the summer about Americans who escape federal taxes -- and worse, get help from the government.

"A majority of American households paid no income tax in 2009. Zero. Zip. Nada. No income tax was paid by 51 percent of the households in America in 2009," Cornyn said with derision in a Senate floor speech.

"Actually, to show how out of whack things have gotten, 30 percent of American households actually made money from the tax system by way of refundable tax credits -- the earned income tax credit, among others," complained Cornyn, holding that fact out as evidence that the tax system needs to be fixed, presumably so those people pay more.

Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) put it more bluntly.

"I hear how they're [Democrats are] so caring for the poor and so forth," Hatch said in the same July debate. "The poor need jobs! And they also need to share some of the responsibility."

Again, the numbers are correct, but the argument ignores the fact that the median salary in the United States has fallen to just $26,364, the lowest since 1999, before the tax cuts of the George W. Bush presidency.

It also ignores the fact that the half who pay no federal income tax do pay sales taxes, federal payroll taxes, state and local taxes, and -- if they own a home -- property taxes.

Hatch and Cornyn were opposing a nonbinding Democratic resolution that would have done nothing more than declare that the wealthy should share the burden for digging the country out of its economic ditch and reducing the deficit. Yet they were hardly alone in the pushback against the poor. Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) said the idea of even holding that vote was "rather pathetic."

The senators' remarks came at the height of the debate over raising the nation's borrowing limit, but the idea that the less well-off are somehow to blame for their circumstances -- and ought to do more to share the responsibility -- has not gone away since.

Indeed, on the presidential campaign trail, the hot idea is instituting some sort of flat tax, from Herman Cain's 9-9-9 plan to Rick Perry's suggestion of a 20 percent income tax. Rep. Michelle Bachmann (R-Minn.) hasn't offered her tax scheme yet, but she agrees the poor should pay more.

"I believe absolutely every American benefits by this magnificent country. Absolutely every American should pay something, even if it's a dollar," Bachmann said at a recent debate.

Economists on the left and right agree that such plans "broaden the base" of taxpayers. In practice, that means the poor and middle class pay more, while the wealthy pay less.

Cain's plan, for instance, would raise taxes by about 58 percent for the bottom 20 percent of earners, double them for the middle class, and cut them by 249 percent for the top fifth of the income ladder, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.

With the income gap at Gilded Age levels -- the income of the top 1 percent has jumped 275 percent since 1979, giving it more than 20 percent of the nation's earnings -- and with unemployment hovering at 9 percent, the Occupy Wall Street movement and its "We are the 99 percent" sentiment might seem to offer an antidote. But in some ways, Occupy Wall Street has inflamed the spread-the-pain side, with conservative blogger Erick Erickson launching a "We are the 53%" website. The name refers to the people who pay some federal income tax and implicitly belittles the less fortunate who don't; more bluntly, the site describes itself as a statement from "Those of us who pay for those of you who whine about all of that."

The growing cry to push the tax bill further down the earnings curve is not just a rhetorical point either. It's become an issue in the ongoing talks of Congress' super committee as it tries to come up with a minimum of $1.2 trillion more in deficit reduction.

Congress' budget experts agree that if the taxpayer base can be made bigger, that would help cut deficits, which they say in turn could spur the economy and investment. They don't address specifically what that would mean for the middle class.

Sen. Pat Toomey (R-Pa.), the former head of the anti-tax Club for Growth and a member of the committee, made the same point in the committee's most recent hearing with Douglas Elmendorf, director of the Congressional Budget Office.

"Is it your view that if we were to pursue revenue-neutral tax reform that would have the effect of broadening the base on which taxes are applied and lowering marginal rates, that it is true both with respect to such corporate reform or individual reform, that that would have a pro-growth effect on the economy -- which, of course, in turn generates more income for the government?" Toomey asked.

"Yes, that's right," Elmendorf answered, with the caveat that "the amounts would depend on the specifics of the proposal."

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>For the Congressional Budget Office, broadening the base could also include closing corporate tax loopholes. Toomey's office declined repeated requests to elaborate his vision of "broadening," but the Club for Growth is adamantly opposed to raising taxes on corporations or high-income earners, and strong supports the flat tax.

The right's scapegoating of the poor has also grown, with food stamps serving as a target -- even as disappearing jobs and falling wages have sparked a huge jump in the numbers of families needing help to get enough to eat. </span>Yet leaders like Sessions still think the country is doing too much to help them. Sessions suggested the need is phony by pointing to a Michigan man who won a lottery but kept using food stamps, as well as noting a gun runner who received food stamps.

"We cannot do this. We do not have the money," said Sessions, declaring the rise in recipients shows not a need for food but a need for reform.

Advocates for a progressive tax system hear in Sessions' words a return to anti-welfare arguments that, while they were ultimately proved to be false, nevertheless had impact.

"I think it's the welfare queen theme all over again," said the Tax Policy Center's Isabel Sawhill.

It might seem inconceivable that Congress would consider raising taxes on the middle and working classes, but Democrats on the super committee are already thinking about making Medicare beneficiaries pay more.

And while poverty rates may be bad, they were equally bad when the welfare queen attacks helped bring about the Clinton administration's welfare reform.



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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/30...html?1319998619 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/30/tax-the-poor-conservative-plan-occupy-wall-street_n_1064685.html?1319998619)

cushioncrawler
10-30-2011, 07:39 PM
Tax wouldnt be a major issue if the economy were gooderer.

But, no matter what happens to taxes, the usofa will not improov soon -- congress and krappynomicysts will see to that.

The usofa iz going down. This iz not a drill.
mac.

Gayle in MD
10-31-2011, 05:45 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tax wouldnt be a major issue if the economy were gooderer.

But, no matter what happens to taxes, the usofa will not improov soon -- congress and krappynomicysts will see to that.

The usofa iz going down. This iz not a drill.
mac. </div></div>

Mac,
While we have been facing severe challenges, no doubt, due to failed Repiglican policies, THE USOFA, will not fail. If the USOFA fails, the world fails.

THE USOFA, has faced many challenges, and we always recover, eventually, once we get Repiglicans under control.

What the people need to understand, is that the only RW Presidential Candidate, in reality, is Mitt Romney, and his stated people for appointments, are the same idiots from the American Enterprise Institute, the same Neocons that put us into this debt ditch with their irrational Iraq foreign policy, the war for oil and corporate wealth redistribution.

That irrational foreign policy decision, was pushed by the very same Neocons that are slated to join Romney's top level of aids and appointees, and their failed and irrational policies, were the beginning of our country's economic decline, that and the irrational spending, and the Repiglican culture of corruption.


Their love of irresponsible deregulation, and the Bush Administration's failure to deal with the results of Reagan's Amnesty, failure to pay for their exorbitant spending, failure to address the outsourcing of American jobs, by corporate fascist pigs, prosecuted against our country, by the very corporate pigs, that Repiglicans subsidize, protect and pander to non stop, brought us to this time of disaster.

The Repiglicans subsidized the downfall of American Industry. It started under their hero, Ronald Reagan, who was another Free Market, deregulatory Zealot, who ushered in Friedman's Fascist policies, and started doing the very same things repigs are doing right now, to destroy the Middle Class, and remove opportunities for them to move up, beginning with REagan's attacks on our Unions.


Americans are waking up to the slaughter prosecuted against them, by the right, and their RW FAILED NEOCON POLICIES, which are nothing more than thievery on a grand scale.

George Bush, his Saudi Arabian Business partner, bin Laden partner, Da Da, Richard Nixon and Reagan, above all, Reagan, destroyed this country, period.

America, will rise again. You can count on that!

G.

llotter
10-31-2011, 06:40 AM
A basic truth that most people learn at an early age is that there is no free lunch. That means if someone gets benefits, they should pay for them. As Elizabeth Warren clearly stated, everyone (supposedly) benefits from the roads and schools and our military and police and firemen and there everyone must pay their fair share. Now, we have nearly half our adult citizens paying zero income taxes, expecting eternal free lunches, a logical impossibility. The 'poor' should start upholding their responsibility as American citizens and pay up.

cushioncrawler
10-31-2011, 07:15 AM
Krappynomix rules, everywhere, in UK, in Ozz, in theusofa, in euro.
We are doomed.
mac.

Gayle in MD
10-31-2011, 07:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A basic truth that most people learn at an early age is that there is no free lunch. That means if someone gets benefits, they should pay for them.


<span style="color: #990000"> <span style='font-size: 14pt'> NO ONE LIVES IN THIS COUNTRY WITHOUT PAYING TAXES! TELL IT ALL TO THOSE WHO IN THE TOP ONE PERCENT WHO STOLE FROM ALL OF US, THE CORPORATE WALL ST. CORRUPT THIEVES, THE SUBSIDIZED ENERGY, MEDICAL INSURANCE, PHARMACEUTICALS, AND ALL OF THE INDUSTRIAL CEO'S WHO DESTROYED OUR JOBS, AND STOLE OUR PENSIONS, THE PIGS, THAT THE REPIGLICANS PROTECT, AND SUBSIDIZE WITH OUR TAX DOLLARS, WHILE THEY GET RICH OFF CORPORATE WELFARE. </span> </span>

As Elizabeth Warren clearly stated, everyone (supposedly) benefits from the roads and schools and our military and police and firemen and there everyone must pay their fair share.


<span style="color: #990000"> <span style='font-size: 14pt'>OUR POLICE AND FIREMEN? SAME PUBLIC SERVANTS THAT REPIGLICANS HAVE DEMONIZED FOR PALTRY SUMS, WHILE LOOKING THE OTHER WAY WHILE THE BILLIONAIRE CEO'S ON WALL STREET, STOLE THEIR PENSIONS, STOLE TRILLIONS IN AMERICAN WEALTH, AND WALKED AWAY WITH REPIGLICANS BLESSINGS. </span> </span>

Now, we have nearly half our adult citizens paying zero income taxes,


<span style="color: #990000"> <span style='font-size: 14pt'>I GUESS SO, AND IT IS A RESULT OF REPUBLICAN FASCISM, PROMOTED BY RONALD REAGAN,

"WHEN FASCISM COMES TO AMERICA, IT WILL COME WRAPPED IN THE FLAG, WAVING THE CROSS.

WHO SPEND THEIR TIME TRYING TO DICTATE HOW OTHERS LIVE, AND TRYING TO LEGISLATE TO ALL OTHERS, ACCORDING TO THEIR PERSONAL RELIGIOUS BELIEFS? HERE IS A CLUE, THEY ARE NOW LEGISLATING TO FORCE PEOPLE TO LIVE LIFE WITHOUT BIRTH CONTROL! HOW MANY MORE POOR PEOPLE DO YOU THINK THAT IS GOING TO CREATE? WAKE UP! DO YOU WANT TO SEE MARRIED PEOPLE, TURNING TO ABSTINENCE FOR BIRTH CONTROL. YOU ARE THE RELIGIOUS RIGHTIES WHO ARE SO FAR OUT THERE YOU ARE UNABLE TO USE CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS. </span> </span>



expecting eternal free lunches, a logical impossibility.

<span style="color: #990000"> <span style='font-size: 14pt'> EXPECTING BILLIONS IN CORPORATE WELFARE, WHILE STEALING FROM THE COUNTRY, IS THE ILLOGICAL REPIGLICAN POLICY. LAUNCHING WARS FOR CORPORATE CRONY CAPITALISM, WITH NO BID CONTRACTS FOR CORRUPT CORPORATIONS, WHILE CUTTING TAXES FOR THE WEALTHIEST IN THIS COUNTRY, IS WHAT PU US INTO THE DEBT DITCH, UNDER BUSH, AND THE REPIGLICAN BLANK CHECK CONGRESS, WHO BROKE THE DAMN EARMARK RECORD!</span> </span>

The 'poor' should start upholding their responsibility as American citizens and pay up. </div></div>


<span style="color: #990000"> <span style='font-size: 14pt'> I'M SURE, JESUS WOULD BE PROUD OF YOU. THE POOR ARE HUNGRY, AND NOW, THANKS TO REPIGLICAN POLICIES, THE MIDDLE CLASS CHILDREN ARE HUNGRY AS WELL. YET, REPIGLICANS BLOCK EVERY EFFORT TO MAKE THE WEALTHY PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE, UNDER THE REPIGLICAN FASCIST POLICIES, WHICH BLAME ALL BUT THE PIGS AT THE TOOP, WHO HAVE STOLEN THE WEALTH OF THE REST, UNDER THEIR WAR ON THE MIDDLE CLASS, THEIR REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH, TO THE TOP, SPENDINNG AND CUTTING TAXES, AND LYING US INTO WAR.

AGAIN, WHERE IN THE CONSTITUTION DO YOU FIND PRE-EMPTIVE WAR?????

THE POOR DIDN'T DESTROY THIS COUNTRY, RONALD REAGAN STARTED THE DECLINE OF THE MIDDLE CLASS, WITH HIS FAILED TRICKLE DOWN, FASCIST POLICIES, AND HIS AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, THE CHEAP LABOR THAT REPIGLICANS HAVE WELCOMED INTO THIS COUNTRY TO ADVANTAGE THE CORPORATE PIGS, WHO EXPLOITED THEM AGAINST THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE POOR AND MIDDLE CLASS, WHO USED TO BE ABLE TO START UP THAT LADDER, WITH DECENT JOBS, AND DECENT WORKING CONDITIONS.

WAKE UP. ROMNEY AIMS TO PUT THHE SAME NEOCONS WHO ARE IN BED WITH THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL CONGRESSIONAL WAR MONGERING PIGS, WHO SCAMMED US OUT OF BILLIONS IN IRAQ, BACK INTO POWER.

THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT NEEDS TO STFU! THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON THE PRINCIPLES OF SEPARATION OF CHURCHH AND STATE. REPIGLICANS USES THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT, TO DISTRACT PEOPLE FROM THEIR ON-GOING GRAND THEFT, AND IMPLEMENTATION OF THE SHOCK DOCTRINE, MILTON FRIEDMANS BELOVED FASCIST ECONOMICS, WHICH ALWAYS DESTROYS THE POWER OF THE VAST MAJORITY, FOR THE CORRUPTION, DICTATION, AND REDISTRIBUTION OF MORE WEALTH FOPR THE FEW AT THE TOP. THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED, AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE IN THIS MESS, WHICH THE CBO CHARTS, PROVE, BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT.

THE POOR DIDN'T WORK IN THOSE FANCY OFFICES, ON WALL ST.

G. </span> </span>

eg8r
10-31-2011, 11:42 AM
You will never get someone like gayle to comprehend this especially when she is one that is taking full advantage of the current tax law and all of its deductions.

eg8r

Qtec
11-02-2011, 08:23 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You will never get someone like gayle to comprehend this especially when she is one that is taking full advantage of the current tax law and all of its deductions.

eg8r </div></div>

Once again, you ignore the topic and launch a personal attack.

Is Gayle the subject of the topic?

Q

Qtec
11-02-2011, 08:28 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The nation's ongoing economic downturn has sparked an odd response from a growing number of conservative and Republican leaders: a desire to blame the unfortunate and <u>a demand for the poor to pay more.</u> </div></div>

watch it (http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/michele-bachmanns-flat-tax-would-have-seve)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BACHMANN: My tax plan is unique in that, unlike any of the other plans, <span style='font-size: 17pt'>my plan calls for every American to pay something when it comes to federal income taxes, because today 51 percent of Americans pay no federal income tax. This needs to change. We're at a tipping point now. Everyone needs to pay something. </span> </div></div>

Nutjob...how ever did she get elected?

Q

Gayle in MD
11-02-2011, 09:52 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The nation's ongoing economic downturn has sparked an odd response from a growing number of conservative and Republican leaders: a desire to blame the unfortunate and <u>a demand for the poor to pay more.</u> </div></div>

watch it (http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/michele-bachmanns-flat-tax-would-have-seve)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BACHMANN: My tax plan is unique in that, unlike any of the other plans, <span style='font-size: 17pt'>my plan calls for every American to pay something when it comes to federal income taxes, because today 51 percent of Americans pay no federal income tax. This needs to change. We're at a tipping point now. Everyone needs to pay something. </span> </div></div>

Nutjob...how ever did she get elected?

Q </div></div>

She got elected by the same idiots who voted for Bush, Twice! REAGAN? LMAO!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Exactly what miracle is she referring to? Soaring debt caused by his tax cuts? The numerous tax increases he had to follow up with to lessen the damage? Deregulation? The economy was actually worsening by the end of Reagan's time, saddling Bush Sr with a recession.

</div></div>

The right lives in their own La La Land, where facts are enemies, and idiots are heroes!

The conservative Seasoned campaigner, Ed R., said yesterday, he left Bachmann's campaign because Bachmann couldn't accept the fact that she can't go on just using the dog whistle, without any rational specific plan behind her rhetoric...apparently, she doesn't think that's necessary, and given from whence she emerged...

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif
The truly brilliant, like the Clinton's and President Obama, are demonized, while the likes of Bachmann, Reagan, Perry, Palin and Bush are lifted to the level of Super Star, and the totally corrupt and heartless, the Cheney's, Christies, Ryan's and Boehner's of the world, are admired even more. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

G.

eg8r
11-03-2011, 02:02 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Repiglican $ Policies Simple! The Poor Pay More! </div></div>It should be standard American money policy that all Americans pay their equal and fair share.

eg8r

eg8r
11-03-2011, 02:03 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Once again, you ignore the topic and launch a personal attack.

Is Gayle the subject of the topic?
</div></div>She was in my post.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
11-03-2011, 02:41 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Repiglican $ Policies Simple! The Poor Pay More! </div></div>It should be standard American money policy that all Americans pay their equal and fair share.

eg8r </div></div>

That's right! Good boy! For once we agree!

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

eg8r
11-03-2011, 08:45 PM
So when will you start campaigning for the poor to start doing their part?

eg8r

Gayle in MD
11-04-2011, 10:37 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So when will you start campaigning for the poor to start doing their part?

eg8r </div></div>

Some Christian!


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style='font-size: 11pt'>So Eg., if your wife's life was in danger, and she was three months pregnant, and couldn't be saved unless they aborted the fetus, I suppose you would prefer to see your other two children live their lives out with no mother, and lose your wife, just let her die, and all to save a three month un born fetus?

Can't wait to here this one! Bet he doesn't even answer it.

Oh, and try to use a rational form of the language, will ya? I know it's hard for you, but give it a shot!

G. </span> </div></div>

Still waiting....

eg8r
11-04-2011, 02:56 PM
Instead of answering the question pertaining to the subject you hypocritically change the subject.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
11-05-2011, 10:34 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The nation's ongoing economic downturn has sparked an odd response from a growing number of conservative and Republican leaders: a desire to blame the unfortunate and <u>a demand for the poor to pay more.</u> </div></div>

watch it (http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/michele-bachmanns-flat-tax-would-have-seve)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BACHMANN: My tax plan is unique in that, unlike any of the other plans, <span style='font-size: 17pt'>my plan calls for every American to pay something when it comes to federal income taxes, because today 51 percent of Americans pay no federal income tax. This needs to change. We're at a tipping point now. Everyone needs to pay something. </span> </div></div>

Nutjob...how ever did she get elected?

Q </div></div>

Check this out:

Reagan gave the green light originally, for the banking industry deregulation, which led to the Las Vegas Wall St. theft...funny, they blame the whole thing on Fannie and Freddie, LMAO

Notice, Krugman is always right....


http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch37-reagan2.htm