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View Full Version : I beat myself again



bluewolf
09-25-2002, 07:20 AM
I went to the pool hall last night to meet vicki and watch amanda's all women team. And I love talking to amanda anyway. she is way kool.

in the meantime, they were playing round robin for fun at a table next to the one amanda's team was playing on. i got matched against a 4 who says she is rusty.very nice lady.

i have been working real hard on my stroke, follow through, bridge and ball speed control so I was 'in stroke' and focussed. I dominated the game with safety,cb control and some really nice long,straight in and mod difficulty cut shots I made. I had more balls in than her so I played safe for a couple of shots so that she could get some of her junk off the table.

It came down to the last ball and the eight. The last ball was a long slight cut in the corner. I started thinking of how to hit the ball to get position on the eight,missed the ball due to hitting slightly low ,leaving it hanging on the pocket, and giving her straight in on the eight and the game. I know if I was just focussing on making the shot, I would have made it,but by thinking ahead I was not focussed and did a dummie. I did this in one other real match too so hopefully have learned my lesson.

While I am on a roll,there is something else that bothers me. When I am playing in a match and down to the last 2 balls the coach calls time out. They tell me to hit it with this or that english and what speed etc, then I miss it. I pretty much know my limitations and they are often asking me to do something that is not in my usual reperatoire, that is I do not do successfully at a high percentage. If i had shot the shot the way I had in my mind,which was a simple rail cut with follow, it would have brought the cb back close to the eight.Another time I was down to the last ball and the eight. I was told to pocket the ball. Instead of doing what my gut said to play safe, I did what they said and missed,giving up the game and match.

Has anybody here had that problem? When you know how you need to shoot a shot to be successful and your coach tells you something else. Is it okay to do what you know at a gut level is right for you with your skill limitations instead of what the coach says?

bw

Amanda
09-25-2002, 07:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: bluewolf:</font><hr> I went to the pool hall last night to meet vicki and watch amanda's all women team. And I love talking to amanda anyway. she is way kool.

in the meantime, they were playing round robin for fun at a table next to the one amanda's team was playing on. i got matched against a 4 who says she is rusty.very nice lady.

i have been working real hard on my stroke, follow through, bridge and ball speed control so I was 'in stroke' and focussed. I dominated the game with safety,cb control and some really nice long,straight in and mod difficulty cut shots I made. I had more balls in than her so I played safe for a couple of shots so that she could get some of her junk off the table.

It came down to the last ball and the eight. The last ball was a long slight cut in the corner. I started thinking of how to hit the ball to get position on the eight,missed the ball due to hitting slightly low ,leaving it hanging on the pocket, and giving her straight in on the eight and the game. I know if I was just focussing on making the shot, I would have made it,but by thinking ahead I was not focussed and did a dummie. I did this in one other real match too so hopefully have learned my lesson.

While I am on a roll,there is something else that bothers me. When I am playing in a match and down to the last 2 balls the coach calls time out. They tell me to hit it with this or that english and what speed etc, then I miss it. I pretty much know my limitations and they are often asking me to do something that is not in my usual reperatoire, that is I do not do successfully at a high percentage. If i had shot the shot the way I had in my mind,which was a simple rail cut with follow, it would have brought the cb back close to the eight.Another time I was down to the last ball and the eight. I was told to pocket the ball. Instead of doing what my gut said to play safe, I did what they said and missed,giving up the game and match.

Has anybody here had that problem? When you know how you need to shoot a shot to be successful and your coach tells you something else. Is it okay to do what you know at a gut level is right for you with your skill limitations instead of what the coach says?

bw <hr></blockquote>

For the focus and missing the shot I think you answered it yourself, know what you need to do with the shot but when it comes time to make the shot, you shouldn't be think of anything else.
As for your coach telling you what english to use etc on a shot, when I call time outs for my 2s or 3s on my team, I never tell them to use left or right english. Also I try to give a couple of options on a shot, the safest play, the high percentage but good pay off, the moderate play. And knowing my player's level of play makes a big difference. Try telling your coach next time that if they are suggesting something a bit to complex for you that you dont feel comfortable with it. Let them know you have difficulty using english or whatever. In the mean time there are 3 things you can do to improve.
1. Practice
2. Practice some more
3. Practice even more
Works for me /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif
Amanda

ChrisW
09-25-2002, 08:13 AM
If your coach can not coach to your level maybe try a different coach. Remember that a high skill level does not always equal a better coach. I often sit back while another player (5) does the coaching. A 6 or 7 can sometimes get caught up in how they would shoot it rather than the person who is really going to have to shoot it.

Before changing coaches though, I would first tell the coach your thoughts ona shoot before he tells your what he thinks you should do. That way he atleast has to work at changing your mind or maybe that will help him see things your way.

I had a bunch more to say but I accidently hit the refresh key and lost it all so this will have to do.
Good luck
Chris

Also: Everybody and their mother's uncle misses easy shots when thinking ahead to the next one.

rackmup
09-25-2002, 08:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: bluewolf:</font><hr>When I am playing in a match and down to the last 2 balls the coach calls time out. They tell me to hit it with this or that english and what speed etc, then I miss it. I pretty much know my limitations and they are often asking me to do something that is not in my usual reperatoire, that is I do not do successfully at a high percentage.<hr></blockquote>

I go with a buddy of mine every now and then to watch his APA team play. I see his Captain (and other Captains) constantly destroy a player's concentration by shouting for a "time-out!" Don't get me wrong...sometimes they help but most often, they further destroy a players confidence and play-making ability (especially if it's a player with limited skills that are in the development stage.) Think about it: To obtain a safety (which Captains are usually asking you to do, unless it's one of those four-rail kick/bank/jump shots they just saw Archer make in an Accu-Stats video) are often times more difficult than the shot you are attempting to make. It's a lose-lose situation.

When I captained my APA team in Phoenix, it was understood that I would not interfere with your game unless you asked for help. It was also understood that you should ask for help when in doubt about your next course of action.

The time to teach a player new skills and strategies isn't during the course of a session. It's better reserved for a different day, without the pressure of competition and away from the piercing eyes of your peer group and the other team.

Hey...that's just my opinion (I have several others if you are interested.)

Regards,

Ken

Chris Cass
09-25-2002, 08:21 AM
When given a coach' advice. It doesn't mean you have to take it. Coaching is sometimes leaving the player shoot what they feel is the right thing for them. Some people get extremely nervous when stopped in the game and given advice. Messed up rhythm, shots they can't execute from the their level without the practice, or just plain drawing attention to them. Like they need help everytime. Some get insulted. Most beginners find they lose their focus easily or train of thought.

A good coach offers ideas or suggestions, explains why they think it's the way to go and then lets the shooter decide what's right for them. The shooter can simply say, I appreciate it but I feel more comfortable with my way. The way I see it, you paid your money and it's your shot. Advice, although good can be more damaging to some players, is just that, Advice. Just let them breath. Let them go.IMO

The saying ,"I beat myself" is something you never tell your opponent. It's an insult. It's also not one you should have your mind believe. It's damaging to your self confidence and you set yourself up for a fall. One has to realize their limitations and accept their skill level. That is one of many sayings that just strokes the ego. An excuse for a loss should be, I missed and I will work on that shot to improve my play.

Too many players today don't give enough credit to their opponent. The tougher their opponents is, the more credit you'll give yourself mentally when losses come along. A loss is a loss and mentally puting the loss due to listening to the advice of a coach is just an excuse.

Atleast, you know your limitations and what to reply to a coach that demands you shoot their game. When my wife has made a poor shot selection, or pattern play could have had different outcome. I'll point it out after the match. Then, work on it in practice. Sometimes the new player doesn't even remember the shot after they've shot it. True focusing, is remembering the shots taken and why they went that way even the next day. JMHO

C.C.

Chris Cass
09-25-2002, 08:24 AM
HAHAHAHHAHAHA

Everyone said the same thing. LMAO

See, great minds think alike. LOL

C.C.

bluewolf
09-25-2002, 09:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Chris Cass:</font><hr> A good coach offers ideas or suggestions, explains why they think it's the way to go and then lets the shooter decide what's right for them. The shooter can simply say, I appreciate it but I feel more comfortable with my way. The way I see it, you paid your money and it's your shot. Advice, although good can be more damaging to some players, is just that, Advice. Just let them breath. Let them go.IMO

The saying ,"I beat myself" is something you never tell your opponent. It's an insult. It's also not one you should have your mind believe. It's damaging to your self confidence and you set yourself up for a fall. One has to realize their limitations and accept their skill level. That is one of many sayings that just strokes the ego. An excuse for a loss should be, I missed and I will work on that shot to improve my play.

Too many players today don't give enough credit to their opponent. The tougher their opponents is, the more credit you'll give yourself mentally when losses come along. A loss is a loss and mentally puting the loss due to listening to the advice of a coach is just an excuse.

C.C. <hr></blockquote>

thanks for everyone's feedback. i did not tell the player i beat myself.after i made the mistake and she put in the eight, we shook,laughed and chatted a bit. i did learn that my mistake was focus and thinking ahead rather than the particular shot .

as far as the people coaching me,one was ww and you are right,he coached based on what he would do.the other 4 and 5 that coach me, i think, they think I am 'better than i am?'. they know i know english and play good safety but i dont like to use very much english, especially in a match until i get more experienced with it.i am okay with using it to cheat the pocket or on rail shots and some side pocket shots, but generally have found that at my skill level it is easy for me to over or under english so have backed off and like to shoot straight,draw,follow,cut.sometimes they even try to get me to do a bank shot and gosh, i could count the number of banks i have mad on one hand LOL. not something i have even worked on yet!!!

maybe they need to get to know my skill too.they could give me a hard safety and i could probably come close because right now my defense game is better than my offense game.

when it comes to 60-80 degree cut shots(the long ones), i am 30-50% on those so dont like to take a chance in a match. i would rather just keep playing safe until my oponent leaves me a shot i know i am 80% on.i do practice everyday so eventually feel there will be more shots i am 80% on and then my skill level will be better and can be more offensive. but i guess i dont like to take chances on shots that i have a low percentage of success on,unless it will give them long and/or bad,regardless of whether i make it or not.

i guess i need a long talk with my captains cuz while my shotmaking has a long way to go, i am pretty good at safe and feel more confident with safeties and high percentage shots.

thanks

bw

09-25-2002, 10:22 AM
Bluewolf,

I read your post and I think you and others have answered your questions about focus. It's okay to think about your leave and your next shot while standing up and surveying the table. Once you've decided on what and how you want to shoot, than and only then do you get down on the shot and all you should be thinking about is making the ball. It's one of the hardest things to do in pool, but it's one of the main reason anyone misses a relatively easy shot. How many times has someone had a straight in shot on the money ball and missed? I would bet anything that the shooter was thinking about breaking the next rack and not on making the shot. It's not something to feel bad about, but it is something to learn and try to avoid in the future. I still do it, but I try to make a conscious effort to stand up when I have something else go through my mind other than pocketing the ball. It's the same concept of standing up when something enters your line of vision which distracts you from the shot.

In terms of coaching, I think you need to have a discussion with your coach. Coaching should not be telling you what to do. Instead it should be about giving you options. Give your coach credit. They want you to win. They use their experiences and abilities as a guideline to assist you. On the whole, they do need to know what you as the shooter are capable of doing and what shots you are most comfortable taking. I used to have issues with a former coach. I would allow the coach b/c I felt that he did know what he was talking about and he would call the coach for specific reasons. But before I actually took the shot, I would think about what advice he gave and assess whether or not I felt comfortable with his advice and if I thought I could excute it. If I didn't, then I'd go with my origional plan... of course I always had to explain my actions after the fact, but realize that you and only you know what is the best shot for you. As my skill level and knowledge of the game has improved, coaches are taken only when I call for them, and I find that most times, I tend to call a coach because I need to make sure that I'm taking the shot the way I think it should be done or I just need extra reassurance b/c the pressure is such that I'm having trouble thinking clearly. Let your coach know what works for you and what doesn't, but don't let it get to a point where you and your coach argue about a shot. I've actually watched a coach and player stand and yell at each other at the table over a shot. Needless to say, they lost the game, match etc... And that was in a playoff...

09-25-2002, 12:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


I beat myself again


<hr></blockquote>

What's the problem? Men have been doing this for years! /webbbs/images/icons/laugh.gif bada-da-da

Harold Acosta
09-25-2002, 04:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: bluewolf:</font><hr>
While I am on a roll,there is something else that bothers me. When I am playing in a match and down to the last 2 balls the coach calls time out. They tell me to hit it with this or that english and what speed etc, then I miss it. I pretty much know my limitations and they are often asking me to do something that is not in my usual reperatoire, that is I do not do successfully at a high percentage. If i had shot the shot the way I had in my mind,which was a simple rail cut with follow, it would have brought the cb back close to the eight.Another time I was down to the last ball and the eight. I was told to pocket the ball. Instead of doing what my gut said to play safe, I did what they said and missed,giving up the game and match.

Has anybody here had that problem? When you know how you need to shoot a shot to be successful and your coach tells you something else. Is it okay to do what you know at a gut level is right for you with your skill limitations instead of what the coach says?

bw <hr></blockquote>

A good coach would call time-out and ask what shot you have in mind; then discuss the alternatives. I used to coach a League Team in PR that was already successful when I came aboard. They were all pretty good players (about 10 of the 15) so there wasn't really much coaching except when the game was really crucial. I would then ask and discuss the alternatives but most of the time I would let them play their shot. If they missed it, they were more open minded to suggestions the next time they had a game in their hands. Two of the players in the team who were already good players became almost excellent players, hardly missing their shots. One has almost absolute control of the cueball now, the other has learned to correctly use English when required and has mastered the stop shot, something they lacked before I came aboard.

The other players then started joking about what lessoned they learned or wanted to learn. Banking 101, 102, Racking 101, Stop shot 101, etc, you get the picture. They also started asking more questions as they learned the new shots, etc. We practiced during the week and played on weekends.

Two books I always carried with me was Robert Bynes Advance Techniques and 99 Critical Shots. I suggest you purchase and read these two books, they helped me and the team. The fun lasted for almost two years. I left the team in May 2001 after a feud with the Pool room owner. Most of the players stayed but I have been told that most have since gone their way. I hardly go nowadays to that Pool Room.

bluewolf
09-25-2002, 05:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Joe Bloe:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;In reply to:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt;&lt;p&gt;
I beat myself again
<hr></blockquote>

What's the problem? Men have been doing this for years! &lt;img src="/webbbs/images/icons/laugh.gif"&gt; bada-da-da <hr></blockquote>

ROFL

bw

bluewolf
09-25-2002, 05:48 PM
thanks harold. i have the 99 crit shots and have started going through it. the byrnes book is at the top of my 'most wanted' /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Duke Mantee
09-25-2002, 06:59 PM
Great advice, Chris! We don't see many posts that cover so much territory so intelligently.

D.M.