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Gayle in MD
12-06-2011, 08:08 PM
I hope that none of my Progressive friends missed the President's fabulous speech in Kansas today!

A wonderful speech, probably the best speech I have heard since JFK was our president!

It was a true celebration of our American principles and ideals, which brought the crowd to their feet, cheering wildly, many, many times! Additionally, it was chock full of statistics, clear messaging according to the facts, and one of the most inspirational speeches, I have ever heard in my life.

It was as well, a grand contrast to the differences between the radical loony Right in this country, and the America that we progressives are all committed to restoring.

I must say, the hateful rhetoric of the right, and their dim views of our future, and lack of reasonable solutions, will prove a poor substitute for the vision our President has outlined for our country!

Be sure and find it, and watch the entire speech! It was pitch perfect!

BRAVO MR. PRESIDENT!

Your Values are My Values, and they are the same values which made our country GREAT!

Brilliant!!!

G.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/06/barack-obama-payroll-tax-cuts_n_1132050.html

Sid_Vicious
12-06-2011, 10:46 PM
This man we have as president today is so intelligent and articulate...I am proud to call him Mr. President. Man! What a gigantic difference from George Walker Bush. Obama is smart, and he continues to impeccably carry off a speech in it's entirety. Obama is right in his views about the middle class. This guy is good! martin

Gayle in MD
12-07-2011, 06:02 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This man we have as president today is so intelligent and articulate...I am proud to call him Mr. President. Man! What a gigantic difference from George Walker Bush. Obama is smart, and he continues to impeccably carry off a speech in it's entirety. Obama is right in his views about the middle class. This guy is good! martin </div></div>


/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

I agree, my friend. And his grace, intelligence and polish, is a winning contrast to the offensive, typical politics of smut, filth, lies and mud slinging that is the hallmark of Republican politics which we have watched, annd winced over since he announced his candidacy.

Our country lost a lot when people like Rove, Cheney, Bush/Bush, Reagan and Gingrich, Coulter and Limpballs, Falwell and Beck, infiltrated our national discourse.

As always, they accuse others of exactly what THEY themselves created and used to divide our country, creating class warfare...a divided country, the politics of personal destruction, and the growing unsustainable void between the wealthy, and everyone else, with their failed Voodoo Economics....all of it always the hallmark of Repiglican policies and tactics.

Our president is a man of dignity, brilliance and high intentions.

He is exactly the LEADER that our country needs at this time.

G.

LWW
12-07-2011, 06:11 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Your Values are My Values, and they are the same values which made our country GREAT!

Brilliant!!!

G.</div></div>

Nobody doubted that both of you are fascists ... but those values are polar opposites of the values that made America great.

In fact, if you actually paid attention ... which I doubt, the point of the speech was to denounce the values that made America great.

Gayle in MD
12-07-2011, 06:20 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This man we have as president today is so intelligent and articulate...I am proud to call him Mr. President. Man! What a gigantic difference from George Walker Bush. Obama is smart, and he continues to impeccably carry off a speech in it's entirety. Obama is right in his views about the middle class. This guy is good! martin </div></div>


As you can see, my friend, the resident ignorant TROLL, the Tourettes member, has flooded the forum, his standard childish offense of burying the posts I have launched about Repiglican corruption, and President Obama's fabulous speech.

He has even resurrected his alter ego, JohnnyD.

His desperation is so transparent.

Perhaps, even we didn't realize how fabulous the President's speech was.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Gayle in MD
12-07-2011, 06:28 AM
Yes, the TROLL IS desperate. Even resurrecting a nearly month old thread.

SSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO obvious. SSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Transparent. SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Juvenile!

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

llotter
12-07-2011, 06:35 AM
Some people can be fooled all the time and among them are the lefties here who would rather go down with the ship than let reality intrude on the fake world. Egalitarianism is not what made America great, it is what has brought her down and those with a lick of sense can see that.

Gayle in MD
12-07-2011, 06:47 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This man we have as president today is so intelligent and articulate...I am proud to call him Mr. President. Man! What a gigantic difference from George Walker Bush. Obama is smart, and he continues to impeccably carry off a speech in it's entirety. Obama is right in his views about the middle class. This guy is good! martin </div></div>

<span style="color: #990000">Here you go, friend, including a link to his entire written speech, and a response from one of our most respected economists, who, BTW has been exactly correct on every single prediction, including the failure of the Neocons, and the Reagnite VOODOO economics....

Enjoy! </span>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style='font-size: 11pt'> Robert Reich
Chancellor's Professor of Public Policy, University of California at Berkeley; Author, 'Aftershock'

The Most Important Economic Speech of His Presidency


The president's speech Tuesday in Osawatomie, Kansas -- where Teddy Roosevelt gave his "New Nationalism" speech in 1910 -- is the most important economic speech of his presidency in terms of connecting the dots, laying out the reasons behind our economic and political crises, and asserting a willingness to take on the powerful and the privileged that have gamed the system to their advantage.

Here are the highlights (and, if you'll pardon me, my annotations):

For most Americans, the basic bargain that made this country great has eroded. Long before the recession hit, hard work stopped paying off for too many people. Fewer and fewer of the folks who contributed to the success of our economy actually benefited from that success. Those at the very top grew wealthier from their incomes and investments than ever before. But everyone else struggled with costs that were growing and paychecks that weren't -- and too many families found themselves racking up more and more debt just to keep up.
He's absolutely right -- and it's the first time he or any other president has clearly stated the long-term structural problem that's been widening the gap between the very top and everyone else for thirty years -- the breaking of the basic bargain linking pay to productivity gains.

For many years, credit cards and home equity loans papered over the harsh realities of this new economy. But in 2008, the house of cards collapsed.
Exactly. But the first papering over was when large numbers of women went into paid work, starting in the late 1970s and 1980s, in order to prop up family incomes that were stagnating or dropping because male wages were under siege -- from globalization, technological change, and the decline of unions. Only when this coping mechanism was exhausted, and when housing prices started to climb, did Americans shift to credit cards and home equity loans as a means of papering over the new harsh reality of an economy that was working for a minority at the top but not for most of the middle class.

We all know the story by now: Mortgages sold to people who couldn't afford them, or sometimes even understand them. Banks and investors allowed to keep packaging the risk and selling it off. Huge bets -- and huge bonuses -- made with other people's money on the line. Regulators who were supposed to warn us about the dangers of all this, but looked the other way or didn't have the authority to look at all.

It was wrong. It combined the breathtaking greed of a few with irresponsibility across the system. And it plunged our economy and the world into a crisis from which we are still fighting to recover. It claimed the jobs, homes, and the basic security of millions -- innocent, hard-working Americans who had met their responsibilities, but were still left holding the bag.


Precisely -- and it's about time he used the term "wrong" to describe Wall Street's antics, and the abject failure of regulators (led by Alan Greenspan and the Fed) to stop what was going on. But these "wrongs" were only the proximate cause of the economic crisis. The underlying cause was, as the president said before, the breaking of the basic bargain linking pay to productivity.


Ever since, there has been a raging debate over the best way to restore growth and prosperity; balance and fairness. Throughout the country, it has sparked protests and political movements -- from the Tea Party to the people who have been occupying the streets of New York and other cities. It's left Washington in a near-constant state of gridlock. And it's been the topic of heated and sometimes colorful discussion among the men and women who are running for president.

But this isn't just another political debate. This is the defining issue of our time. This is a make or break moment for the middle class, and all those who are fighting to get into the middle class. At stake is whether this will be a country where working people can earn enough to raise a family, build a modest savings, own a home, and secure their retirement.


Right again. It is the defining issue of our time. But I wish he wouldn't lump the Tea Party in with the Occupiers. The former hates government; the latter focuses blame on Wall Street and corporate greed -- just where the president did a moment ago.

Now, in the midst of this debate, there are some who seem to be suffering from a kind of collective amnesia. After all that's happened, after the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, they want to return to the same practices that got us into this mess. In fact, they want to go back to the same policies that have stacked the deck against middle-class Americans for too many years. Their philosophy is simple: we are better off when everyone is left to fend for themselves and play by their own rules.

He might have been a bit stronger here. The "they" who are suffering collective amnesia include many of the privileged and powerful who have gained enormous wealth by using their political muscle to entrench their privilege and power. In other words, it's not simply or even mainly amnesia. It's a clear and concerted strategy. 

Well, I'm here to say they are wrong. I'm here to reaffirm my deep conviction that we are greater together than we are on our own. I believe that this country succeeds when everyone gets a fair shot, when everyone does their fair share, and when everyone plays by the same rules. Those aren't Democratic or Republican values; 1% values or 99% values. They're American values, and we have to reclaim them.


Amen.
... 

In 1910, Teddy Roosevelt came here, to Osawatomie, and laid out his vision for what he called a New Nationalism. "Our country," he said, "... means nothing unless it means the triumph of a real democracy... of an economic system under which each man shall be guaranteed the opportunity to show the best that there is in him."


Some background: In 1909, Herbert Croly, a young political philosopher and journalist, argued in his best-selling The Promise of American Life that the large American corporation should be regulated by the nation and directed toward national goals.


"The constructive idea behind a policy of the recognition of the semi-monopolistic corporation is, of course, the idea that they can be converted into economic agents... for the national economic interest," Croly wrote. Teddy Roosevelt's New Nationalism embraced Croly's idea.For this, Roosevelt was called a radical, a socialist, even a communist. But today, we are a richer nation and a stronger democracy because of what he fought for in his last campaign: an eight hour work day and a minimum wage for women; insurance for the unemployed, the elderly, and those with disabilities; political reform and a progressive income tax.

Today, over one hundred years later, our economy has gone through another transformation. Over the last few decades, huge advances in technology have allowed businesses to do more with less, and made it easier for them to set up shop and hire workers anywhere in the world. And many of you know firsthand the painful disruptions this has caused for a lot of Americans.

Factories where people thought they would retire suddenly picked up and went overseas, where the workers were cheaper. Steel mills that needed 1,000 employees are now able to do the same work with 100, so that layoffs were too often permanent, not just a temporary part of the business cycle. These changes didn't just affect blue-collar workers. If you were a bank teller or a phone operator or a travel agent, you saw many in your profession replaced by ATMs or the internet. Today, even higher-skilled jobs like accountants and middle management can be outsourced to countries like China and India. And if you're someone whose job can be done cheaper by a computer or someone in another country, you don't have a lot of leverage with your employer when it comes to asking for better wages and benefits -- especially since fewer Americans today are part of a union.

Now, just as there was in Teddy Roosevelt's time, there's been a certain crowd in Washington for the last few decades who respond to this economic challenge with the same old tune. "The market will take care of everything," they tell us. If only we cut more regulations and cut more taxes -- especially for the wealthy -- our economy will grow stronger. Sure, there will be winners and losers. But if the winners do really well, jobs and prosperity will eventually trickle down to everyone else. And even if prosperity doesn't trickle down, they argue, that's the price of liberty.

It's a simple theory -- one that speaks to our rugged individualism and healthy skepticism of too much government. It fits well on a bumper sticker. Here's the problem: It doesn't work. It's never worked. It didn't work when it was tried in the decade before the Great Depression. It's not what led to the incredible post-war boom of the 50s and 60s. And it didn't work when we tried it during the last decade.


Obama is advocating Croly's proposal that large corporations be regulated for the nation's good. But he's updating Croly. The next paragraphs are important.


Remember that in those years, in 2001 and 2003, Congress passed two of the most expensive tax cuts for the wealthy in history, and what did they get us? The slowest job growth in half a century. Massive deficits that have made it much harder to pay for the investments that built this country and provided the basic security that helped millions of Americans reach and stay in the middle class -- things like education and infrastructure; science and technology; Medicare and Social Security.

Remember that in those years, thanks to some of the same folks who are running Congress now, we had weak regulation and little oversight, and what did that get us? Insurance companies that jacked up people's premiums with impunity, and denied care to the patients who were sick. Mortgage lenders that tricked families into buying homes they couldn't afford. A financial sector where irresponsibility and lack of basic oversight nearly destroyed our entire economy.

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>We simply cannot return to this brand of your-on-your-own economics if we're serious about rebuilding the middle class in this country. We know that it doesn't result in a strong economy. It results in an economy that invests too little in its people and its future. It doesn't result in a prosperity that trickles down. It results in a prosperity that's enjoyed by fewer and fewer of our citizens.

Look at the statistics. In the last few decades, the average income of the top one percent has gone up by more than 250%, to $1.2 million per year. For the top one hundredth of one percent, the average income is now $27 million per year. The typical CEO who used to earn about 30 times more than his or her workers now earns 110 times more. And yet, over the last decade, the incomes of most Americans have actually fallen by about six percent.</span>

The very first time the President has emphasized this grotesque trend. Now listen for how he connects this with the deterioration of our economy and democracy:


<span style='font-size: 14pt'>This kind of inequality -- a level we haven't seen since the Great Depression -- hurts us all. When middle-class families can no longer afford to buy the goods and services that businesses are selling, it drags down the entire economy, from top to bottom. America was built on the idea of broad-based prosperity -- that's why a CEO like Henry Ford made it his mission to pay his workers enough so that they could buy the cars they made. It's also why a recent study showed that countries with less inequality tend to have stronger and steadier economic growth over the long run.

Inequality also distorts our democracy. It gives an outsized voice to the few who can afford high-priced lobbyists and unlimited campaign contributions, and runs the risk of selling out our democracy to the highest bidder. And it leaves everyone else rightly suspicious that the system in Washington is rigged against them -- that our elected representatives aren't looking out for the interests of most Americans.

More fundamentally, this kind of gaping inequality gives lie to the promise at the very heart of America: that this is the place where you can make it if you try. We tell people that in this country, even if you're born with nothing, hard work can get you into the middle class; and that your children will have the chance to do even better than you. That's why immigrants from around the world flocked to our shores.


And what it's done to equal opportunity, and how it's eroded upward mobility:

And yet, over the last few decades, the rungs on the ladder of opportunity have grown farther and farther apart, and the middle class has shrunk. A few years after World War II, a child who was born into poverty had a slightly better than 50-50 chance of becoming middle class as an adult. By 1980, that chance fell to around 40%. And if the trend of rising inequality over the last few decades continues, it's estimated that a child born today will only have a 1 in 3 chance of making it to the middle class.

It's heartbreaking enough that there are millions of working families in this country who are now forced to take their children to food banks for a decent meal. But the idea that those children might not have a chance to climb out of that situation and back into the middle class, no matter how hard they work? That's inexcusable. It's wrong. It flies in the face of everything we stand for.</span>


What should we do about this? Not turn to protectionism or become neo-Luddites. Nor turn to some version of government planning.  

Fortunately, that's not a future we have to accept. Because there's another view about how we build a strong middle class in this country -- a view that's truer to our history; a vision that's been embraced by people of both parties for more than two hundred years.

It's not a view that we should somehow turn back technology or put up walls around America. It's not a view that says we should punish profit or success or pretend that government knows how to fix all society's problems. It's a view that says in America, we are greater together - when everyone engages in fair play, everyone gets a fair shot, everyone does their fair share.


So what does that mean for restoring middle-class security in today's economy?

It starts by making sure that everyone in America gets a fair shot at success. The truth is, we'll never be able to compete with other countries when it comes to who's best at letting their businesses pay the lowest wages or pollute as much as they want. That's a race to the bottom that we can't win -- and shouldn't want to win. Those countries don't have a strong middle-class. They don't have our standard of living.

In 1910, Teddy Roosevelt came here, to Osawatomie, and laid out his vision for what he called a New Nationalism...

The fact is, this crisis has left a deficit of trust between Main Street and Wall Street. And major banks that were rescued by the taxpayers have an obligation to go the extra mile in helping to close that deficit. At minimum, they should be remedying past mortgage abuses that led to the financial crisis, and working to keep responsible homeowners in their home. We're going to keep pushing them to provide more time for unemployed homeowners to look for work without having to worry about immediately losing their house.


I wish the Obama administration had made this a condition for the banks receiving bailouts.

But there's far more to the speech. Read it in full.Here, finally, is the Barack Obama many of us thought we had elected in 2008. Hopefully Obama will carry this message through 2012 -- and in his second term will take on the growing inequities and game-rigging practices that have been undermining the American economy and American democracy for years.[/i]
</span> </div></div>

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/obama-inequality-speech_b_1133147.html

Gayle in MD
12-07-2011, 07:04 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some people can be fooled all the time and among them are the lefties here who would rather go down with the ship than let reality intrude on the fake world. Egalitarianism is not what made America great, it is what has brought her down and those with a lick of sense can see that. </div></div>

We got to this point after fourteen years of Republican Congressional majority, and eight years of a Repiglican President, six years of BOTH!..... and through it all under the FAILED REPIGLICAN ECONOMIC POLICIES OF REAGAN, FRIEDMAN, BUSH, LAISSEZ FAIRE, TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS .

Wake THU!

Gayle in MD
12-07-2011, 07:27 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/06..._n_1132445.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/06/corporate-america-is-sitting-on-the-solution-to-the-jobs-crisis_n_1132445.html)

cushioncrawler
12-07-2011, 03:27 PM
Few peeple will listen to this.
Fewer peeple will understand this.
Fewerer peeple will care.
Fewererer peeple will change their vote.

U karnt beat the rich and powerfull.

The united states of america.
United u fall -- divided u stand.
mac.

Gayle in MD
12-07-2011, 03:43 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Few peeple will listen to this.
Fewer peeple will understand this.
Fewerer peeple will care.
Fewererer peeple will change their vote.

U karnt beat the rich and powerfull.

The united states of america.
United u fall -- divided u stand.
mac.



</div></div>


<span style="color: #990000">
LOL, Mac, it is hope and change we can believe in!!!!
Don't be so negative!

All kidding aside, I do think things can change for the better. I also think, unlike you, that many, many people will not only hear the presiden't words, but will clearly understand exactly what he is saying, as well.

And as for the wealthy, hey, if the great TR was able to do it, then so can this president.



So, YES WE KARN! </span> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

eg8r
12-07-2011, 03:52 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL, Mac, it is hope and change we can believe in!!!!
Don't be so negative!
</div></div>Mac, how dare you speak negatively in gayle's fantasy thread. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif LOL, she has been waiting for hope and change for 3 years and Obama has failed left and right. Who know, maybe this next year he might do something positive for this country.

eg8r

cushioncrawler
12-07-2011, 04:29 PM
Krappynomix iz lethal.
It will kill europe -- the usofa -- and then all.

Krappynomix rules in every uni and every institute and every department and every bizness.
Makrokrappynomix -- read "politix".
Mikrokrappynomix -- read "finance".

A fake science of fakes for fakes buy fakes.
mac.

LWW
12-07-2011, 05:06 PM
What's amazing is that Obama finally went unplugged and outted himself ... and the moonbat crazy left has outted itself by fawning all over dear leader for so doing.

llotter
12-07-2011, 05:53 PM
Yes, The Moron has outed himself right out of office. The surprising thing is that the country has tolerated such in-your-face stupidity for such a long time.

Sid_Vicious
12-07-2011, 09:51 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Few peeple will listen to this.
Fewer peeple will understand this.
Fewerer peeple will care.
Fewererer peeple will change their vote.

U karnt beat the rich and powerfull.

The united states of america.
United u fall -- divided u stand.
mac.



</div></div>


<span style="color: #990000">
LOL, Mac, it is hope and change we can believe in!!!!
Don't be so negative!

All kidding aside, I do think things can change for the better. I also think, unlike you, that many, many people will not only hear the presiden't words, but will clearly understand exactly what he is saying, as well.

And as for the wealthy, hey, if the great TR was able to do it, then so can this president.



So, YES WE KARN! </span> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif </div></div>

Gayle...I'm just being realistic when I say that I basically agree with mac. Even though I rate this speech and it's solid merits above the highest marks of all, the haters against this black Democratic president far outweighs common sense. This country has lost it's soul, and that soul happens oddly to have been professed by the haters themselves in the name of Christ. The hate is just too big, and frankly...I hope that there is a proverbial hell, cuz those USING Christ for these purposes will surely have the best seats at the weeny roast.

Sorry, all in all, mac is right, and that is sad. As good as the speech was, and it was monumental!...it'll mostly only impress those already in the Obama camp. The rest will just tune out after sentence #2, and go watch the Jerry Springer show. sid

jimmyg
12-07-2011, 11:35 PM
Same people with the same illnesses, delusions, and fantasies. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

J

LWW
12-08-2011, 04:44 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, The Moron has outed himself right out of office. The surprising thing is that the country has tolerated such in-your-face stupidity for such a long time. </div></div>

Only because so many feared being called racists ... by actual racists no less ... which also explains why the regime absolutely had to destroy Herman Cain.

Qtec
12-08-2011, 04:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Egalitarianism is not what made America great, it is what has brought her down and those with a lick of sense can see that.</div></div>

What rubbish! Since when have you had Egalitarianism in America?

Even it its true, it has not brought it down for everybody! The rich are doing 'swimmingly' as Coulter would say.

When you had some sense of economic fairness, America thrived. For the last 30 yrs you have had the trickle down crap and after 30 years, its patently clear it doesn't work for the majority.
The present unprecedented inequality stats prove this.

Q

Qtec
12-08-2011, 04:49 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What's amazing is that Obama finally went unplugged and outted himself ... </div></div>

Do you have a specific point that you disagree with in the POTUS speech?

Q

Qtec
12-08-2011, 05:00 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL, she has been waiting for hope and change for 3 years and <u>Obama has failed left and right </u></div></div>

And why is that?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even with the country on the brink of default, the Senate’s highest ranking Republican says his <span style='font-size: 14pt'>“single most important” goal is to make Barack Obama a one-term president.</span>

“The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president,” Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell told National Journal‘s Major Garrett in October.

Fox News’ Bret Baier asked McConnell Sunday if that was still his major objective.

“Well, that is true,” McConnell replied. “That’s my single most important political goal, along with every active Republican in the country.” </div></div>

Q

LWW
12-08-2011, 05:04 AM
THIS PART (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/07/full-text-barack-obama-speech)

The entire rant, and that's what it was, was a pack of lies pimped to mindless bots ... much like yourself ... to instigate class envy.

Gayle in MD
12-08-2011, 05:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Few peeple will listen to this.
Fewer peeple will understand this.
Fewerer peeple will care.
Fewererer peeple will change their vote.

U karnt beat the rich and powerfull.

The united states of america.
United u fall -- divided u stand.
mac.



</div></div>


<span style="color: #990000">
LOL, Mac, it is hope and change we can believe in!!!!
Don't be so negative!

All kidding aside, I do think things can change for the better. I also think, unlike you, that many, many people will not only hear the presiden't words, but will clearly understand exactly what he is saying, as well.

And as for the wealthy, hey, if the great TR was able to do it, then so can this president.



So, YES WE KARN! </span> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif </div></div>

Gayle...I'm just being realistic when I say that I basically agree with mac. Even though I rate this speech and it's solid merits above the highest marks of all, the haters against this black Democratic president far outweighs common sense. This country has lost it's soul, and that soul happens oddly to have been professed by the haters themselves in the name of Christ. The hate is just too big, and frankly...I hope that there is a proverbial hell, cuz those USING Christ for these purposes will surely have the best seats at the weeny roast.

Sorry, all in all, mac is right, and that is sad. As good as the speech was, and it was monumental!...it'll mostly only impress those already in the Obama camp. The rest will just tune out after sentence #2, and go watch the Jerry Springer show. sid </div></div>


<span style="color: #990000">Martin,
IMO, President Obama will be re-elected. None of the Repiglicans can light a candle to his intelligence, dignity, and good judgement.

There are a lot more people in this country who are not millionaires and billionaires, and not all of us have forgotten how we got into this mess, and there is absolutely NO QUESTION, that Repiglican policies put us into this ditch.

Additionally,millions of us know that if the PIGS get back in, we will lose Medicare, and our educational system, our environment will be left to the mercy of the Grand Oil Party, we will lose consumer protection, not everyone is a Fux Noise Lemmings like the nutjobs on here.

Mac is right, that the financial world is corrupt, and it is systemic, but the Laissez Faire, Trickle Down Reagan style VOODOO economics, are for SH**, and many in thie country are disgusted with the demonizing from the religious right.

We haven't ALL forgotten the principles that our country was founded upon, and the president is the ONLY one out there, who doesn't sound like a total irrational nutjob.

I hope Gingrich wins the nomination. Romney would be fine also. Neither can beat the president....Gingrich is a total liar and a nutcase! The right really doesn't like any of their own contenders...and the Independents are not going to vote for Gingrich, or Romney.

Many of us know that if a Repiglican gets in there, we may well get blown off the face of the earth. They are total failures in foreign policy, and irrational in their statements about foreign policy.

I have no worries about this election. I do not believe there are enough fly=over, religiously radical, idiots, to vote for a Repiglican President and put us at risk for a nuclear showdown, which is their big dream.

Remember, only one in five voters, consider themselves Repiglican... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif we aren't ALL radical, dictatorial, greedy, dishonest, without conscience, zaney religious nutjobs.

G.</span>

Gayle in MD
12-08-2011, 05:53 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL, she has been waiting for hope and change for 3 years and <u>Obama has failed left and right </u></div></div>

And why is that?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even with the country on the brink of default, the Senate’s highest ranking Republican says his <span style='font-size: 14pt'>“single most important” goal is to make Barack Obama a one-term president.</span>

“The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president,” Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell told National Journal‘s Major Garrett in October.

Fox News’ Bret Baier asked McConnell Sunday if that was still his major objective.

“Well, that is true,” McConnell replied. “That’s my single most important political goal, along with every active Republican in the country.” </div></div>

Q </div></div>

I have enjoyed watching may, many changes, thanks to thie president.

One of the best, is that health Insurance corporations, can't drop people when they become ill, and young adults, can stay on their parents policies until they are twenty-eight, and out of college. I am saving thousands of dollars every years, thanks to the FACT that President Obama succeeded in his goal to launch the first Health Care Act, and it is helping millions of people, including myself.

Ed ignores the FACT that this president saved us from the Bush Depression. Ed refuses to accept the FACT, that he does not speak for me, or for anyone elose, for that matter.

Just another of Ed's attempts to speak for others. He thinks he is the National spokesman, at all times, for all people, and can read the minds of everyone on the Internet.

Another irrational RWer, with delusions of grandeur. It's what one would call, "Out of touch!"

We have several here.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Gayle in MD
12-08-2011, 06:29 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some people can be fooled all the time and among them are the lefties here who would rather go down with the ship than let reality intrude on the fake world. Egalitarianism is not what made America great, it is what has brought her down and those with a lick of sense can see that. </div></div>

LMAO!

You should look up the definitions of those big words, before you use them....

Stunning ignorance...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Inequality also distorts our democracy. It gives an outsized voice to the few who can afford high-priced lobbyists and unlimited campaign contributions, and runs the risk of selling out our democracy to the highest bidder. And it leaves everyone else rightly suspicious that the system in Washington is rigged against them -- that our elected representatives aren't looking out for the interests of most Americans.

More fundamentally, this kind of gaping inequality gives lie to the promise at the very heart of America: that this is the place where you can make it if you try. We tell people that in this country, even if you're born with nothing, hard work can get you into the middle class; and that your children will have the chance to do even better than you. That's why immigrants from around the world flocked to our shores.

</div></div>

A corrupt shadow market, hidden corporate money buying representatives, religious intrusion into our constitutional rights, is not what our country can thrive upon.

Someone like you, who would intrude into another person's space, to attempt to force your religious opinions, into their personal space and life, and praise cowardly murderers, could never grasp the principles of America's promise.
G.

LWW
12-08-2011, 06:32 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You should look up the definitions of those <u><span style='font-size: 26pt'>ig</span></u> words, before you use them....

Stunning ignorance...

G. </div></div>

That's simply precious.

Qtec
12-08-2011, 07:06 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you have a specific point that you disagree with in the POTUS speech?

Q </div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">THIS PART (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/07/full-text-barack-obama-speech)

The entire rant, and that's what it was, was a pack of lies pimped to mindless bots ... much like yourself ... to instigate class envy. </div></div>

Do you know what specific means?

Q

Gayle in MD
12-08-2011, 07:17 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You should look up the definitions of those <u><span style='font-size: 26pt'>ig</span></u> words, before you use them....

Stunning ignorance...

G. </div></div>

That's simply precious. </div></div>

Waiting for you to provide Proof that you aren't a lying POS!

I never reported you anywhere. LIAR!

G.

LWW
12-08-2011, 08:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You should look up the definitions of those <u><span style='font-size: 26pt'>ig</span></u> words, before you use them....

Stunning ignorance...

G. </div></div>

That's simply precious. </div></div>

Waiting for you to provide Proof that you aren't a lying POS!

I never reported you anywhere. LIAR!

G. </div></div>
http://wpiqradio.com/RequestBreakfast/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/politifact_photos_tom-pantsonfire-xport4_.gifhttp://wpiqradio.com/RequestBreakfast/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/politifact_photos_tom-pantsonfire-xport4_.gif

Gayle in MD
12-08-2011, 08:55 AM
I think we can all see that you prove with every post, that you made this lie up, have no proof of anything, and that you're a lying POS, cowardly PIG.

Either come up with proof, or stop slandering me, and spreading lies about me, twitbrain!

G.

eg8r
12-08-2011, 09:03 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Waiting for you to provide Proof that you aren't a lying POS!
</div></div>Welcome back gutter trash. I knew it wouldn't take long before you resorted to this type of language. What is it with lefties and their inability to control themselves and talk like civilized adults?

eg8r

Gayle in MD
12-08-2011, 09:04 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Waiting for you to provide Proof that you aren't a lying POS!
</div></div>Welcome back gutter trash. I knew it wouldn't take long before you resorted to this type of language. What is it with lefties and their inability to control themselves and talk like civilized adults?

eg8r </div></div>

LMAO!

LWW
12-08-2011, 09:05 AM
[quote=Gayle in MD]I think we can all see that you prove with every post, that you made this lie up, have no proof of anything, and that you're a lying POS, cowardly PIG.

Either come up with proof, or stop slandering me, and spreading lies about me, twitbrain!

G. [/quote

You threatened it here ... as did your pit poodles.

I even posted excerpts oh aitch's PM's on the topic.

Those that know you know the truth.

Now ... dance some more.

Stretch
12-08-2011, 09:24 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=Gayle in MD]I think we can all see that you prove with every post, that you made this lie up, have no proof of anything, and that you're a lying POS, cowardly PIG.

Either come up with proof, or stop slandering me, and spreading lies about me, twitbrain!

G. [/quote

You threatened it here ... as did your pit poodles.

I even posted excerpts oh aitch's PM's on the topic.

Those that know you know the truth.

Now ... dance some more. </div></div>

You are the one dancing, or havn't you noticed? St.

Gayle in MD
12-08-2011, 09:28 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=Gayle in MD]I think we can all see that you prove with every post, that you made this lie up, have no proof of anything, and that you're a lying POS, cowardly PIG.

Either come up with proof, or stop slandering me, and spreading lies about me, twitbrain!

G. [/quote

You threatened it here ... as did your pit poodles.

I even posted excerpts oh aitch's PM's on the topic.

Those that know you know the truth.

Now ... dance some more. </div></div>

Another lie.

Grow some. Own up, LIAR.

G.

Gayle in MD
12-08-2011, 09:31 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=Gayle in MD]I think we can all see that you prove with every post, that you made this lie up, have no proof of anything, and that you're a lying POS, cowardly PIG.

Either come up with proof, or stop slandering me, and spreading lies about me, twitbrain!

G. [/quote

You threatened it here ... as did your pit poodles.

I even posted excerpts oh aitch's PM's on the topic.

Those that know you <span style="color: #990000">KNOW YOU'RE A LIAR. </span>

Now ... dance some more. </div></div>

You are the one dancing, or havn't you noticed? St. </div></div>

Yeah, and I think I see ballet slippers on his cute little feet, too.

G.

sack316
12-08-2011, 09:44 AM
Overall a good speech. But one point he has continually made recently is about productivity that I disagree with. For example from this speech:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Factories where people thought they would retire suddenly picked up and went overseas, where the workers were cheaper. Steel mills that needed 1,000 employees are now able to do the same work with 100, so that layoffs were too often permanent, not just a temporary part of the business cycle. These changes didn't just affect blue-collar workers. If you were a bank teller or a phone operator or a travel agent, you saw many in your profession replaced by ATMs or the internet. </div></div>

Since he channeled a president from the early 20th century, I wonder if ol' Teddy chastised Ford for causing hurt in the horse-and-buggy business?

While I understand he is attempting to give an empathetic message to people, such as myself, who have struggled recently and continue to struggle, I find such an argument counter-intuitive... even to some of his own words!

We should continue to (attempt to) lead the world in productivity, innovation, and technology. Yet at the same time productivity, innovation, and technology is costing us jobs? I call foul and BS on that argument.

Now one other part of his thinking process that I COULD get on board with has to do with outsourcing. One example would be $2 billion in the American Recovery and Reinvestment act that went to wind power and "creating green jobs". 80% of that went to foreign manufacturers of wind turbines. Those who live in glass (wind powered) houses probably shouldn't throw stones...

Otherwise, very nice, typical, inspirational Obama "go get 'em" rah rah speech. I agree with a lot of it. But it's easy to agree when someone is telling you what you want to hear.

I could make this whole board millions of dollars next year, and also provide unlimited comfort and happiness for each of you and your families for generations to come... yes I can!

But before 'hiring' me as leader of this board for me to provide that, you'd probably care to know <u>HOW</u> I plan to get that done.

And so would I frankly.

Sack

eg8r
12-08-2011, 09:53 AM
All he has been is words. The Dems want a speaker to sit in the White House, while the unemployed are wanting a leader in there. The sad part is that there does not seem to be a leader anywhere near the horizon at this point.

eg8r

sack316
12-08-2011, 09:57 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All he has been is words. The Dems want a speaker to sit in the White House, while the unemployed are wanting a leader in there. The sad part is that there does not seem to be a leader anywhere near the horizon at this point.

eg8r </div></div>

Agreed. And to be completely fair, that goes for both sides. Seems that we'll have to wait for everyone to get done campaigning again before our needs are a true concern.

Sack

eg8r
12-08-2011, 10:01 AM
Well, we don't really know about the Dem side since no one is going to run against Obama. For now, we see there is nothing to get excited about on the Rep side.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
12-08-2011, 10:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Overall a good speech. But one point he has continually made recently is about productivity that I disagree with. For example from this speech:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Factories where people thought they would retire suddenly picked up and went overseas, where the workers were cheaper. Steel mills that needed 1,000 employees are now able to do the same work with 100, so that layoffs were too often permanent, not just a temporary part of the business cycle. These changes didn't just affect blue-collar workers. If you were a bank teller or a phone operator or a travel agent, you saw many in your profession replaced by ATMs or the internet. </div></div>

Since he channeled a president from the early 20th century, I wonder if ol' Teddy chastised Ford for causing hurt in the horse-and-buggy business?

While I understand he is attempting to give an empathetic message to people, such as myself, who have struggled recently and continue to struggle, I find such an argument counter-intuitive... even to some of his own words!

We should continue to (attempt to) lead the world in productivity, innovation, and technology. Yet at the same time productivity, innovation, and technology is costing us jobs? I call foul and BS on that argument.

Now one other part of his thinking process that I COULD get on board with has to do with outsourcing. One example would be $2 billion in the American Recovery and Reinvestment act that went to wind power and "creating green jobs". 80% of that went to foreign manufacturers of wind turbines. Those who live in glass (wind powered) houses probably shouldn't throw stones...

Otherwise, very nice, typical, inspirational Obama "go get 'em" rah rah speech. I agree with a lot of it. But it's easy to agree when someone is telling you what you want to hear.

I could make this whole board millions of dollars next year, and also provide unlimited comfort and happiness for each of you and your families for generations to come... yes I can!

But before 'hiring' me as leader of this board for me to provide that, you'd probably care to know <u>HOW</u> I plan to get that done.

And so would I frankly.

Sack </div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We should continue to (attempt to) lead the world in productivity, innovation, and technology. Yet at the same time productivity, innovation, and technology is costing us jobs? I call foul and BS on that argument.

</div></div>

<span style="color: #990000"> I don't know why you would, Sack. He is laying out what his policies are aimed for going forward. I don't think anyone could deny that we've been blocked by Republicans, from spending more on education, renewable energy, spending more on research and development, and he is saying we need to invest MORE in education, make college MORE affordable for all Americans, spend MORE on making such things as wind turbines, education, technology, not less, as is the Republican goal, not subsidize dirty energy, whenn the future belongs to the country who gets it right, on clean, renewable energy, and more students going into technological endeavors, instead of a nation full of more on Wall St., and in the non productive financial industry.</span>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now one other part of his thinking process that I COULD get on board with has to do with outsourcing. One example would be $2 billion in the American Recovery and Reinvestment act that went to wind power and "creating green jobs". 80% of that went to foreign manufacturers of wind turbines. Those who live in glass (wind powered) houses probably shouldn't throw stones...

</div></div>


<span style="color: #990000">Again, IMO, the president can only make the case for where we need to invest. He's been pretty busy, as we know, trying to divert the impending Bush depression, address the unsustainable costs of Health Care in our country, which contributed greatly to foreclosure rates, due to insurance corproations dropping people when they became ill, and rising unsustaibable medical costs, and pharmaceutical costs, and that effort is on-going, he has produced more jobs than Bush did in eight years, annd he has had to take over two wars. I think given the obstruction he has face, he's doing a pretty good job, all in all, AND he managed to get bin Laden, without launching an all out war on terror, lol...

We need to spend more on education, renewables, remove tax breaks and loopholes for corporations, and the wealthy, who do NOT produce or invest in jobs, here, and subsidize those corporations who do want to buid wind turbines, but how do we do that, under the obstruction from Republicans, blocking investmants in those very arenas.

The President is saying, IMO&lt; that we can be the leader in all of those fields, IF we invest wisely. It doesn't happen overnight.

The contrast is pretty clear, if one considers where the Republiocans want to spend, and what they consistantly block, and how they are creating a log jam, in investments, with irrational arguments for austerity at a time when investing is paramount, if we are to succeed on the global market.

G.</span>

cushioncrawler
12-08-2011, 03:59 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Overall a good speech. But one point he has continually made recently is about productivity that I disagree with. For example from this speech:<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Factories where people thought they would retire suddenly picked up and went overseas, where the workers were cheaper. Steel mills that needed 1,000 employees are now able to do the same work with 100, so that layoffs were too often permanent, not just a temporary part of the business cycle. These changes didn't just affect blue-collar workers. If you were a bank teller or a phone operator or a travel agent, you saw many in your profession replaced by ATMs or the internet.</div></div>Since he channeled a president from the early 20th century, I wonder if ol' Teddy chastised Ford for causing hurt in the horse-and-buggy business?

While I understand he is attempting to give an empathetic message to people, such as myself, who have struggled recently and continue to struggle, I find such an argument counter-intuitive... even to some of his own words!

We should continue to (attempt to) lead the world in productivity, innovation, and technology. Yet at the same time productivity, innovation, and technology is costing us jobs? I call foul and BS on that argument.

Now one other part of his thinking process that I COULD get on board with has to do with outsourcing. One example would be $2 billion in the American Recovery and Reinvestment act that went to wind power and "creating green jobs". 80% of that went to foreign manufacturers of wind turbines. Those who live in glass (wind powered) houses probably shouldn't throw stones...

Otherwise, very nice, typical, inspirational Obama "go get 'em" rah rah speech. I agree with a lot of it. But it's easy to agree when someone is telling you what you want to hear.

I could make this whole board millions of dollars next year, and also provide unlimited comfort and happiness for each of you and your families for generations to come... yes I can!

But before 'hiring' me as leader of this board for me to provide that, you'd probably care to know <u>HOW</u> I plan to get that done. And so would I frankly. Sack</div></div>Sack -- Dont forget that global kompetitivness depends on komparativ advantage, and on the value of the dollar.

This meens that if u take say 100 produkts that the usofa say makes more efficiently than anyone else on earth, then it iz possible that all 100 kan be imported more cheeply -- koz all it takes iz for any one of the 100 to be made in a country where they enjoy a komparativ advantage for that one produkt.

This stuff iz real ekonomix -- not some bullshit mix of politix and finance that masquerades az krappynomix.
mac.

sack316
12-09-2011, 09:45 AM
I get what you're saying G... but what is THE plan to accomlish such things? Examples such as Ethanol and Solyndra doesn't jive well with most (over $500 million federal dollars in Solyndra and $25 mil in California State tax breaks currently producing nothing and employing nobody).

My question now, as it has been for several years is HOW?

We can all sit here and say, "We need to invest in our educational system, and give our children the knowledge they need to have a fair shake in shaping the future of tomorrow! We need to invest in renewable energy because fossil fuels will eventually run out! Renewable energy will not only help our environment, but becoming the world leaders in innovation and creation of such technology will ensure our continued success as a global leader, as well as be beneficial to our economic recovery and create steady long-term employment for hard working Americans for generations to come!"

There, just a quick quote nobody would argue with and sounds great! Our kids get great education. We help our environment. We help the economy. We get people to work. And we continue to be a world leader. No problem there, elect me as a top official! Except I really said nothing at all other than "invest".

"Invest" (unfortunately) to our government means no more than throw money at it and see what sticks. I'd like a speech that tells me how much, to where, and why $$$'s will be invested, and what the achievable and accomplishable goals for the investment will be over a given timeline so that we may evaluate and make adjustments or reconsideration before it becomes a complete waste.

I'll use an example you'll like. How about NCLB? Gosh that sounded so great it got bipartisan support!!! If only the program has given itself the same evaluation standards it gave to schools, huh? We "invested" over 40% more federal money in education from 2001 to 2007. That's great!!! (isn't it?). In this case, not really. There were not realistic attainable goals in the program from the start, not to mention a myriad of other problems because nobody bothered to ask the questions about it.

Why? Probably because they are afraid. A person that would dare to question NCLB in 2001 is against improving education in this country and hates our kids!!! So both sides blindly support "investing in our education" and sign the check.

Just like now if I question anything I must be against helping the environment, against educating our children, against renewable energy, against middle class, and probably a racist. Not because I am, but because I'd like to know how and why... and it's easier to make the questioner a target than it is to answer the questions.

Sack

Sid_Vicious
12-09-2011, 03:10 PM
I feel certain Obama will be elected also. My point was that the anti Obama crowd wouldn't even listen to one word Obama has to say, and Obama says a lot of good things. Bet that if you polled the righties here, maybe one might have allowed their ears to listen to 5 minutes of that speech. He is talking about helping their own financial interests too, so it's just goofy to be so close minded.

Yea, unless the Reps slide in a magical candidate late in the game...Obama is a shoe-in. It is simple narcissistic for the rights to stick with such a corrupt affiliation. You know how people can find it impossible to think they could be wrong. sid

Gayle in MD
12-10-2011, 05:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I feel certain Obama will be elected also. My point was that the anti Obama crowd wouldn't even listen to one word Obama has to say, and Obama says a lot of good things. Bet that if you polled the righties here, maybe one might have allowed their ears to listen to 5 minutes of that speech. He is talking about helping their own financial interests too, so it's just goofy to be so close minded.

Yea, unless the Reps slide in a magical candidate late in the game...Obama is a shoe-in. It is simple narcissistic for the rights to stick with such a corrupt affiliation. You know how people can find it impossible to think they could be wrong. sid </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You know how people can find it impossible to think they could be wrong.</div></div>

Yep, we've seen it here for years, even when they were in the midst of being BUSHWHACKED!

The Dems need to use this clip in the background, with the question..."Are you sure you want this guy running you country?

Meet The Repiglican Candidates, one example fits all!" /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Fits the whacko stuff they write here, as well! Great visual for Repigs, the corporations who own them, and the people who keep on voting for them...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGz8jcbJjRw



/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Gayle in MD
12-10-2011, 07:41 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All he has been is words. The Dems want a speaker to sit in the White House, while the unemployed are wanting a leader in there. The sad part is that there does not seem to be a leader anywhere near the horizon at this point.

eg8r </div></div>

Agreed. And to be completely fair, that goes for both sides. Seems that we'll have to wait for everyone to get done campaigning again before our needs are a true concern.

Sack </div></div>

One would have to be truly out of touch, and intentionally unfair, to fail to give the president credit for trying to protect Middle Class Americans from the Repiglican WAR ON THE MIDDLE CLASS, WAR ON THE UNEMPLOYED, WAR ON DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES.

President Obama has successfully achieved an incredible number of achievements, the first of which was preventing the BUSH DEPRESSION, which Repiglicans and Bush, completely failed to address during the years they were in power, and knew it was coming.

This President will be well remembered in history, for being a conscientious leader, ending Bush's two failed wars, preventing his Depression, saving the automobile industry, helping the old, the ill and the poor, and doing his best to push REpigloicans into addressing the many very serious and important goals our country needs to focus upon, if we are to recovery from FAILED REPIGLICAN POLICIES.

AND....and all while he has had to deal with unprecedented Obstruction, from Repiglicans, who stated themseslves, their major concern, was a political goal, of removing President Obama.

It is absolutely unfair, IMO, to try to assert that President Obama hasn't accomplished a great deal, and try to put him on par with Repiglicans, who have fought him every step of the way, and held our country back, attacking those very Americans who were most damaged by their failed economic policies.

We've seen nothing from Repiglicans beyond with their selfish politically motivated obstructionism,, and their usual demonizing of hard working Americans, their major concern, protectionism for the crooks and the polluters....

What have Repiglicans accomplished for the country???

NOTHING!

G.

Gayle in MD
12-10-2011, 07:52 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I get what you're saying G... but what is THE plan to accomlish such things? Examples such as Ethanol and Solyndra doesn't jive well with most (over $500 million federal dollars in Solyndra and $25 mil in California State tax breaks currently producing nothing and employing nobody).

My question now, as it has been for several years is HOW?

We can all sit here and say, "We need to invest in our educational system, and give our children the knowledge they need to have a fair shake in shaping the future of tomorrow! We need to invest in renewable energy because fossil fuels will eventually run out! Renewable energy will not only help our environment, but becoming the world leaders in innovation and creation of such technology will ensure our continued success as a global leader, as well as be beneficial to our economic recovery and create steady long-term employment for hard working Americans for generations to come!"

There, just a quick quote nobody would argue with and sounds great! Our kids get great education. We help our environment. We help the economy. We get people to work. And we continue to be a world leader. No problem there, elect me as a top official! Except I really said nothing at all other than "invest".

"Invest" (unfortunately) to our government means no more than throw money at it and see what sticks. I'd like a speech that tells me how much, to where, and why $$$'s will be invested, and what the achievable and accomplishable goals for the investment will be over a given timeline so that we may evaluate and make adjustments or reconsideration before it becomes a complete waste.

I'll use an example you'll like. How about NCLB? Gosh that sounded so great it got bipartisan support!!! If only the program has given itself the same evaluation standards it gave to schools, huh? We "invested" over 40% more federal money in education from 2001 to 2007. That's great!!! (isn't it?). In this case, not really. There were not realistic attainable goals in the program from the start, not to mention a myriad of other problems because nobody bothered to ask the questions about it.

Why? Probably because they are afraid. A person that would dare to question NCLB in 2001 is against improving education in this country and hates our kids!!! So both sides blindly support "investing in our education" and sign the check.

Just like now if I question anything I must be against helping the environment, against educating our children, against renewable energy, against middle class, and probably a racist. Not because I am, but because I'd like to know how and why... and it's easier to make the questioner a target than it is to answer the questions.

Sack

</div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just like now if I question anything I must be against helping the environment, against educating our children, against renewable energy, against middle class, and probably a racist. Not because I am, but because I'd like to know how and why... and it's easier to make the questioner a target than it is to answer the questions.

Sack

</div></div>

No, not if you question, Sack, only when you defend and continue to vote for those who have created the problems, misplace the major blame, and defend the policies which were most responsible for the mess we ended up in after Bush and the Repiglican majority got done with their total control and power in Washington D.C.

When Repiglicans fail to admit to, or deny continuously, the colossal mess their Policies created under the Bush Regime, because it definately WAS THEIR MESS, everything else falls by the wayside, IMO!

Just saying both sides contributed, does not endeavor to say which party's policies actually created the majority of our problems.

IMO, it is irrational to blame Dems, equally, for what has failed, when it clearly was Repiglican Laissez Faire VOODOO economics, and their philosophy of, and failure of overly zealous deregulatory corporate protectionism at it's worst, and warring while cutting taxes, ignoring serious warnings, all of which were the major causes of the disasters from which we are still trying to recover!

This president inherited all of it, and then was met with irrational obstruction, for political gain, at a time of national emergency.

There is NO EXCUSE for that.



G.

sack316
12-12-2011, 09:06 AM
Gayle, that is a fair enough and thoughtful response as usual.

While I don't agree fully in what you said (as you know), I do respect and understand where you're coming from and what things lead you to certain conclusions. You, as well, know I see some things differently and have my reasons for my own conclusions. It's just how we differ in our perspectives and viewpoints, which we have certainly established over the years /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

So I won't reply to exactly what you said there in your response, if you don't mind. As that will simply be our usual back and forth that leads nowhere in the end (in the end, I'll still lay blame on both sides, you'll lay blame on republicans, we'll both cite certain things, yadda yadda yadda) /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

But one thing I do notice, is that there is nobody that has answered my question of "how" yet.

Well, there is the response of "republican obstructionism". Which is fine and granted. No worries, no problem, no complaints here on that statement (we may argue on what extent, but I will not argue w/ you whatsoever that it exists)...

So, even granting that. Obama has 3 years of experience now, so I'm assuming he's pretty familiar with how it all works. He'll still get on the stump with a beautiful speech of what we will accomplish, what we will improve in this country, etc. And I will definitely admit the speeches are lovely as well as inspiring! But HOW???

HOW is he going to get around evil Republican obstructionism to deliver what he is promising, then? Once that is answered, HOW is he going to improve education (and "giving more money" isn't an answer, as I have already given an example of that)? Down the whole list of wonderful promises and goals, what is the plan and how will it work?

I'm sorry, but that's just what I find lacking in his addresses. Not that he's any worse than anyone else's speeches and promises, because nobody in the republican candidates is doing anything more than pandering either... but Obama is the President right now and he is who has the ability to get these things done... I'm ready to know how and see it done!

Otherwise... well... I promise to effectively close out all wars we are in, in a responsible and humanitarian manner, and bring our troops home!!! I promise to improve education and give your children a chance to compete in the global economy as adults! I promise anyone who wants a job will be able to get one! I promise to get the economy back on track! I promise you're retirement savings will be safe, and social security will be readily available when you reach retirement age. I promise anyone who needs health care will be able to get it without worry for their personal financial security!

Elect Sack President! Because I've said as much as anyone else, and above is a great "plan" *cough couch* for the future of our nation!

Sack

sack316
12-12-2011, 09:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I feel certain Obama will be elected also. My point was that the anti Obama crowd wouldn't even listen to one word Obama has to say, and Obama says a lot of good things. Bet that if you polled the righties here, maybe one might have allowed their ears to listen to 5 minutes of that speech. He is talking about helping their own financial interests too, so it's just goofy to be so close minded.

Yea, unless the Reps slide in a magical candidate late in the game...Obama is a shoe-in. It is simple narcissistic for the rights to stick with such a corrupt affiliation. You know how people can find it impossible to think they could be wrong. sid </div></div>

I agree with you Sid. And truth be told, though you may not believe it, from what I've seen so far I'll be more likely to vote for Obama than any republican candidate I've seen.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> and Obama says a lot of good things</div></div>

Yes he does. See my reply to Gayle above, I said a lot of good things too! Heck Sid, vote for me and I'll get ya free drinks and free pool for life! Don't worry about how or if it is possible for me to do that, just listen to the pretty words and positive message /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Sack

Sid_Vicious
12-12-2011, 01:36 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I feel certain Obama will be elected also. My point was that the anti Obama crowd wouldn't even listen to one word Obama has to say, and Obama says a lot of good things. Bet that if you polled the righties here, maybe one might have allowed their ears to listen to 5 minutes of that speech. He is talking about helping their own financial interests too, so it's just goofy to be so close minded.

Yea, unless the Reps slide in a magical candidate late in the game...Obama is a shoe-in. It is simple narcissistic for the rights to stick with such a corrupt affiliation. You know how people can find it impossible to think they could be wrong. sid </div></div>

I agree with you Sid. And truth be told, though you may not believe it, from what I've seen so far I'll be more likely to vote for Obama than any republican candidate I've seen.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> and Obama says a lot of good things</div></div>

Yes he does. See my reply to Gayle above, I said a lot of good things too! Heck Sid, vote for me and I'll get ya free drinks and free pool for life! Don't worry about how or if it is possible for me to do that, just listen to the pretty words and positive message /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Sack </div></div>

I started to edit my post right after I made it accusing none of the non-Obama crew for "not watching even 5 minutes of the speech" to say that one member possibly did see it, you. I didn't want to put you on the spot though, so I decided to leave it where it was. I'm being honest.

As far as the hows for Obama getting his promises done, it all boils down to one thing really. He has to bring political unity back to some reasonable state. Right now, right being the operative word, anything he tries to do positive, is automatically answered with a huge no from the right side of the isle, just to lame him even more, not because it wasn't Republican policy. Some of the issues were even voted positive by the Reps in the past. Until that blockage is broken, I don't think we have the other hows to come, and that is disappointing to say the least. Right now, we could have an Apostle of Jesus Christ, or even Christ in office, and the right would be trying to crucify him all over again, if he was a Democrat. We've had outstanding percentages of the American public aligning WITH Obama on some issues, such as the distrubution of wealth which has flaired upward to the top 1% in redicilous numbers, by merely suggesting to go back to the rates back in the 2000 boom rates, which obviously worked. Now what do the Repubs want to do is to suggest taking back entitlement money from the aging citizens(entitlements), but KEEP the wealthy, still getting wealthier. In a way, they want to "tax" most people, but not the wealthy.

In the end, all we have is total discourse and a public with noone thay feel is working for them as a whole, hence the approval ratings of out legislature. My disagreement for the Democrat's side over time since Obama took over has been the lack of real fortitude is setting their policy back when they had their real power in numbers. Obama, from this voter's viewpoint,is that he was a puppy dog when he should have developed some rotwieler, but that time is gone. The speech seemed to be "the Obama" I was looking for back then.

So, until he can find just a little unity, there will be very little answers to the rest of the hows. I am really worried that it's an impossible situation for the American people. We may all be lame ducks with this obstructionism. To say the least, our nation is crippled as things stand right now with automatic no-s from the right.

Free drinks would be nice "social security!" sid

sack316
12-12-2011, 04:47 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I started to edit my post right after I made it accusing none of the non-Obama crew for "not watching even 5 minutes of the speech" to say that one member possibly did see it, you. I didn't want to put you on the spot though, so I decided to leave it where it was. I'm being honest. </div></div>

Thanks for thinking of me /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif I did not see it live, but I did watch video of it as well as read the transcript before making any comments about it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As far as the hows for Obama getting his promises done, it all boils down to one thing really. He has to bring political unity back to some reasonable state. Right now, right being the operative word, anything he tries to do positive, is automatically answered with a huge no from the right side of the isle, just to lame him even more, not because it wasn't Republican policy. Some of the issues were even voted positive by the Reps in the past. Until that blockage is broken, I don't think we have the other hows to come, and that is disappointing to say the least. Right now, we could have an Apostle of Jesus Christ, or even Christ in office, and the right would be trying to crucify him all over again, if he was a Democrat. We've had outstanding percentages of the American public aligning WITH Obama on some issues, such as the distrubution of wealth which has flaired upward to the top 1% in redicilous numbers, by merely suggesting to go back to the rates back in the 2000 boom rates, which obviously worked. Now what do the Repubs want to do is to suggest taking back entitlement money from the aging citizens(entitlements), but KEEP the wealthy, still getting wealthier. In a way, they want to "tax" most people, but not the wealthy.

In the end, all we have is total discourse and a public with noone thay feel is working for them as a whole, hence the approval ratings of out legislature. My disagreement for the Democrat's side over time since Obama took over has been the lack of real fortitude is setting their policy back when they had their real power in numbers. Obama, from this voter's viewpoint,is that he was a puppy dog when he should have developed some rotwieler, but that time is gone. The speech seemed to be "the Obama" I was looking for back then.

So, until he can find just a little unity, there will be very little answers to the rest of the hows. I am really worried that it's an impossible situation for the American people. We may all be lame ducks with this obstructionism. To say the least, our nation is crippled as things stand right now with automatic no-s from the right.

Free drinks would be nice "social security!" sid </div></div>

Thank you so much for at least acknowledging Democrats had power and ability to do as they wanted!

I've always found it odd... 2 years prior to Obama, Repub had white house, dem all else, and everything is the presidents fault. First 2 years of Obama, dems have white house AND everything else, and nothing is done and it's the former president's fault. Now, dems have white house, but NOT everything else, and nothing is done and once again blame does everywhere that a "D" is not in control.

Now, not saying that in many cases this isn't true. But really, c'mon! Some accountability has to go around... especially during the two years you mentioned!

But that can open up a whole new can of worms there. Suffice to say, I'm pretty sick and fed up with both sides.

Making the other side (or person) look bad does not make you look good. Both parties and individuals (and hell, even the GOP campaigns right now) are too busy doing just that instead of doing something good.

Nobody wants to be accountable. Nobody will step up and say "yeah, everything got screwed up, and here is my (our) part in messing up. I (we) am sorry, but have learned from it and HERE is how it can be fixed!"

But I'm rambling here. I totally agree with you that political unity, or at least some semblance of it needs to be achieved... especially now that power is split.

And, in fact, disagreement and "voting against" things is fine... that's how our system works. Checks and balances and all that good stuff. But ONLY as long as it is in the spirit of what it is meant to be, not the petty grandstanding, campaigning, and BS it has become. So again, you're right... dems could probably put a matter on the floor that says "Republicans have absolute power now and forever" and the right would vote against it.

Let's just hope somewhere along the way someone with some common sense steps up and just does their damn job. From Obama all the way down the line on both sides.

(*just a side note before any "it's not Obama's fault" lines come in... he knew what the job was before he campaigned, he knew the political and economic climate when he made his promises. Whether via his own ignoring of them, or obstructionism, or whatever, he has not successfully done his job as president. Any store manager who doesn't meet requirements sure will get fired quick, even if "it's not his/her fault", much quicker than the cashiers, stockers, and sales persons.)

Sack

Sid_Vicious
12-12-2011, 05:02 PM
Checks and balances doesn't explain why Republicans now vote no on issues they once supported. All that, is party obstructionism at any cost,,,not productive for the American people. sid

eg8r
12-12-2011, 06:18 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let's just hope somewhere along the way someone with some common sense steps up and just does their damn job. From Obama all the way down the line on both sides.
</div></div>This is the type of hope and change I could buy into. Too bad it isn't being sold.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">he knew what the job was before he campaigned, he knew the political and economic climate when he made his promises. Whether via his own ignoring of them, or obstructionism, or whatever, he has not successfully done his job as president.</div></div>sofla explained this as sly misdirection.

eg8r

sack316
12-14-2011, 08:44 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Checks and balances doesn't explain why Republicans now vote no on issues they once supported. All that, is party obstructionism at any cost,,,not productive for the American people. sid </div></div>

Didn't claim anything otherwise my friend. My quote on that was as follows:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...disagreement and "voting against" things is fine... that's how our system works. Checks and balances and all that good stuff. But ONLY as long as it is in the spirit of what it is meant to be, <u>not</u> the petty grandstanding, campaigning, and BS it has become. So again, you're right... </div></div>

I think (not necessarily you specifically Sid) some from the left don't realize how much I actually do agree with them on many things.

For instance this, I agree with you and Gayle and everyone who cries Republican obstructionism. We may disagree on what extent, how damaging, and how it ranks on a grand scale of getting things done... but I sure don't disagree that it exists and that it sucks. I'm no happier with Republicans than I am anyone else.

With that said, just because Republicans suck at their job doesn't mean Democrats don't. An extremely rude Burger King employee doesn't make a moderately rude McDonald's employee "good". Waiting 20 minutes in checkout line #4 at Wal-mart does not make the 18 minute wait in line #6 super awesome. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Sack

Gayle in MD
01-03-2012, 05:25 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I started to edit my post right after I made it accusing none of the non-Obama crew for "not watching even 5 minutes of the speech" to say that one member possibly did see it, you. I didn't want to put you on the spot though, so I decided to leave it where it was. I'm being honest. </div></div>

Thanks for thinking of me /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif I did not see it live, but I did watch video of it as well as read the transcript before making any comments about it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As far as the hows for Obama getting his promises done, it all boils down to one thing really. He has to bring political unity back to some reasonable state. Right now, right being the operative word, anything he tries to do positive, is automatically answered with a huge no from the right side of the isle, just to lame him even more, not because it wasn't Republican policy. Some of the issues were even voted positive by the Reps in the past. Until that blockage is broken, I don't think we have the other hows to come, and that is disappointing to say the least. Right now, we could have an Apostle of Jesus Christ, or even Christ in office, and the right would be trying to crucify him all over again, if he was a Democrat. We've had outstanding percentages of the American public aligning WITH Obama on some issues, such as the distrubution of wealth which has flaired upward to the top 1% in redicilous numbers, by merely suggesting to go back to the rates back in the 2000 boom rates, which obviously worked. Now what do the Repubs want to do is to suggest taking back entitlement money from the aging citizens(entitlements), but KEEP the wealthy, still getting wealthier. In a way, they want to "tax" most people, but not the wealthy.

In the end, all we have is total discourse and a public with noone thay feel is working for them as a whole, hence the approval ratings of out legislature. My disagreement for the Democrat's side over time since Obama took over has been the lack of real fortitude is setting their policy back when they had their real power in numbers. Obama, from this voter's viewpoint,is that he was a puppy dog when he should have developed some rotwieler, but that time is gone. The speech seemed to be "the Obama" I was looking for back then.

So, until he can find just a little unity, there will be very little answers to the rest of the hows. I am really worried that it's an impossible situation for the American people. We may all be lame ducks with this obstructionism. To say the least, our nation is crippled as things stand right now with automatic no-s from the right.

Free drinks would be nice "social security!" sid </div></div>

Thank you so much for at least acknowledging Democrats had power and ability to do as they wanted!

I've always found it odd... 2 years prior to Obama, Repub had white house, dem all else, and everything is the presidents fault. First 2 years of Obama, dems have white house AND everything else, and nothing is done and it's the former president's fault. Now, dems have white house, but NOT everything else, and nothing is done and once again blame does everywhere that a "D" is not in control.

Now, not saying that in many cases this isn't true. But really, c'mon! Some accountability has to go around... especially during the two years you mentioned!

But that can open up a whole new can of worms there. Suffice to say, I'm pretty sick and fed up with both sides.

Making the other side (or person) look bad does not make you look good. Both parties and individuals (and hell, even the GOP campaigns right now) are too busy doing just that instead of doing something good.

Nobody wants to be accountable. Nobody will step up and say "yeah, everything got screwed up, and here is my (our) part in messing up. I (we) am sorry, but have learned from it and HERE is how it can be fixed!"

But I'm rambling here. I totally agree with you that political unity, or at least some semblance of it needs to be achieved... especially now that power is split.

And, in fact, disagreement and "voting against" things is fine... that's how our system works. Checks and balances and all that good stuff. But ONLY as long as it is in the spirit of what it is meant to be, not the petty grandstanding, campaigning, and BS it has become. So again, you're right... dems could probably put a matter on the floor that says "Republicans have absolute power now and forever" and the right would vote against it.

Let's just hope somewhere along the way someone with some common sense steps up and just does their damn job. From Obama all the way down the line on both sides.

(*just a side note before any "it's not Obama's fault" lines come in... he knew what the job was before he campaigned, he knew the political and economic climate when he made his promises. Whether via his own ignoring of them, or obstructionism, or whatever, he has not successfully done his job as president. Any store manager who doesn't meet requirements sure will get fired quick, even if "it's not his/her fault", much quicker than the cashiers, stockers, and sales persons.)

Sack </div></div>

Long wait, I know, for this follow up my friend, but....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(*just a side note before any "it's not Obama's fault" lines come in... he knew what the job was before he campaigned, he knew the political and economic climate when he made his promises. Whether via his own ignoring of them, or obstructionism, or whatever, he has not successfully done his job as president. Any store manager who doesn't meet requirements sure will get fired quick, even if "it's not his/her fault", much quicker than the cashiers, stockers, and sales persons.)

</div></div>

I don't think that's fair. No, He didn't know what he was going to be facing, at all through most of his campaign.

IIRC, the crash didn't take full form until September, long after most of his promises were made.

Additionally, Repiglicans didn't vow to destroying his administration as their maim goal, until AFTER he was elected.

Then they said that their main goal was to make him a one term president, while we were in the midst of trying to rebuld the economy and recovering, or escaping the impending Bush Depression.

Additionally, their lies about the Affordable Health Care act, were legendary, and then, when they won the majority, low and behold, they were the ones who wanted to push granny off the cliff, all along. After all the rhetoric about Jobs, Jobs, Jobs, they didn't launch a single jobs bill, annd focused on abortion, and destroying women's rights.

They were the obstructionists who would vote against their own legendary policies, just to cripple his progress.

They were the ones who filibustered everything, including sensitive positions which were part of our own National Security, and trying to block things which had never been blocked ever in our history, such as extending the debt limit.

If one believes that Republican policies even partially led to our deficits, and thereby crippled our ability to deal with the economic crash, without spending more money, then one would have to entertain the possibility that relentless obstructionism took some real gall, and that when they embraced their never before seen level of complete obstructionism, at such a critical times, after their own contribution to policies which surely exacerbated the resulting disasters, and then refuse to compromise in order to promote a funtional Congress, that could efficiently embrace the difficulties of our circumstances, and vow to be involved in improving our circumstances, instead of sabotaging our President, the guy who inherited all of their own disastrous consequences, policies such as:

"Ronald Reagan proved that the deficits don't matter."

And...

"We don't want the smoking gun to be a Mushroom Cloud."

And...


"Mission Accomplished, all major combat operations in Iraq, are ended"

Ah, no, not at all....

We were Bushwhacked, real good, and we are still struggling to recover. And their major stated goal was strictly a political goal, by their own words.

Additionally, we do have to deal with the religious divorce/diabetees belt, and realize that some Democratic representatives, who represent those folks, do not take a firm stand against failed Republican policies. The Blue Dogs. possibly they are some of the worst of all, and believe me, I have been in close touch with every single one of them for years, and may I say, regardless of whether there is a D. or an R. in front of their names, when they vote against what I believe to be reasonable policies, which represent the best interests of the country at large, I consistantly come down just as hard on all of them, equally.


Additionally, I think it is fair to say that President Obama did everything possible, to persuade the Republicans to work with him, instead of against the best interests of the country.

They refused, over and over.

And, instead, they presented the worst display of political dirty tricks I have ever witnessed, and at a very critical time.

President Obama has performed amazingly well, given what he has had to take on, and what he has faced from the Republican Obstructionists. IMO, that is precisely why many of the majjor Republican contenders, did not even attempt to run against him, and instead they chose to wait until he is gone, and sit back as they watched the far right, bring in the clowns.

Just my 2 cents, of course.... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif well, maybe fifty cents.

G.

wolfdancer
01-03-2012, 05:56 PM
Roll Call, for the "right" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T36xr8_Ha7I)
"Deficits don't matter"....we'll just get a a few more printing presses going.
RR peaked in "Bedtime For Bonzo"...Sadly, it was all downhill after that.....as the "Gipper" became "Bonzo"
In retrospect though, he was a far better acting President, then Der Bush leaguer, what followed.

Gayle in MD
01-03-2012, 05:57 PM
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif