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View Full Version : Maryland pro-death thugs charged with murder!



LWW
12-31-2011, 03:43 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ELKTON, Md. (WJZ)– Two abortion doctors face murder charges. The allegations follow a long investigation into a botched abortion in Elkton, Cecil County.

Theres some mystery surrounding this case. Officials won’t identify the victims but they keep mentioning <span style='font-size: 11pt'>a freezer full of fetuses, some of them almost full term.</span>

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Two doctors who performed late-term abortions in a Cecil County clinic now face murder charges. The police investigation began last year when police say Dr. Steven Brigham and Dr. Nicola Riley performed part of an abortion in New Jersey, then transferred the patient to Maryland to finish it. When the 18-year-old woman suffered complications she was taken to the hospital. Then, police searched the abortion clinic looking for her medical records, but they found something else in the freezer.

“It contained the fetuses, approximately 35,” a Cecil County police officer explained. “Some of them appeared to be close to full- term.”</span>

Riley, who lives in Utah, faces one count of first- and second-degree murder. Brigham, from New Jersey, faces five counts of murder.

The indictment is sealed so details are limited.

Reached by phone, State’s Attorney Ellis Rollins would not tell WJZ if the victims are indeed the fetuses found in the freezer.

Late-term abortions are legal in Maryland, but <span style='font-size: 11pt'>WJZ has learned that prosecutors are planning to use a viable fetus law until now used only in homicides involving pregnant women.

The abortion clinic in Elkton is now closed but fallout from the investigation has already led to changes in the state’s abortion regulations.

“We have the least restrictive abortion laws in the country,” Md. Sen. Nancy Jacobs, R-Cecil and Harford County, said.</span>

Jacobs has pushed for stronger late-term abortion laws. Earlier this year, she worked with the Maryland Health Department to increase oversight of abortion clinics.

May: “Do you think these regulations go far enough?”
Jacobs: “They’re a great start. I think it’s made people more aware of the fact that this was going on.”

Both doctors a being held in jails out of state awaiting extradition back to Maryland.

More details on the charges will be available in court documents that could be made public next week. </div></div>

This case would make our founders proud. (http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/12/30/authorities-abortion-doctors-charged-with-murder/)

cushioncrawler
12-31-2011, 03:25 PM
What the Bible says about Abortion
Abortion is not murder. A fetus is not considered a human life.

If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life. -- Exodus 21:22-23

The Bible places no value on fetuses or infants less than one month old.

And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver. -- Leviticus 27:6

Fetuses and infants less than one month old are not considered persons.

Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD. -- Numbers 3:15-16

God sometimes approves of killing fetuses.

And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. -- Numbers 31:15-17
(Some of the non-virgin women must have been pregnant. They would have been killed along with their unborn fetuses.)

Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. -- Hosea 9:14

Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. -- Hosea 9:16

Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up. -- Hosea 13:16

God sometimes kills newborn babies to punish their parents.

Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. -- 2 Samuel 12:14

God sometimes causes abortions by cursing unfaithful wives.

The priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell. And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. ...
And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. -- Numbers 5:21-21, 27-28

God's law sometimes requires the execution (by burning to death) of pregnant women.

Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt. -- Genesis 38:24

cushioncrawler
12-31-2011, 03:26 PM
What the Bible says about Pregnancy

Hosea 9:14
Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.

Hosea 9:16
Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.

Hosea 13:16
Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

cushioncrawler
12-31-2011, 03:26 PM
What the Bible says about Children

Children who refuse to obey their parents must be executed.

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. -- Deuteronomy 21:18-21

He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. -- Exodus 21:15

He that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. -- Exodus 21:17

Children who mock their parents will have their eyes plucked out by ravens and eaten by eagles.

The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it. -- Proverbs 30:17

Like Abraham, parents should be willing to kill their children for God.

And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and ... offer him there for a burnt offering.... And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. -- Genesis 22:2,10

God killed all the firstborn children in an entire country.

The LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon.... And there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead. -- Exodus 12:29-30

Sometimes God kills children for misbehaving.

And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. -- 2 Kings 2:23-24

Someday God will force parents eat their own children.

And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. -- Leviticus 26:29

And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters. -- Deuteronomy 28:53

And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend. -- Jeremiah 19:9

And then there's this statement, which could only be found in the Bible:

Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. -- Psalm 137:9

Soflasnapper
01-01-2012, 12:38 PM
mac, these Bible verses are absolutely devastating to any consistent fundamentalist, whose claim is that every word of the Bible is true, and every word is fit for instruction and reproof.

Under a fundamentalist interpretation, the Bible is very clear that an unborn 'child' is nothing of the sort, not any kind of human life, and doesn't even become a 'person' or 'human' in the key meaning of a life for a life, until later.

The Bible is stating that a fetus is property that is not a human, whose death warrants a payment in cash from the perpetrator. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, which is the Old Testament language, does not allow for a couple of coins for a 'human' life. But the plain language of the Bible states that is a fair trade, meaning we are not dealing with a fully or perhaps even a partially human person.

Soflasnapper
01-01-2012, 02:21 PM
It seems any liability for murder is based only on a technicality, not the alleged act or acts themselves.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Maryland's fetal-homicide law was first used in 2008, when a man was found guilty in the shooting deaths of his pregnant girlfriend and their 7-month-old fetus.

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>The law specifies that it does not apply to, or infringe upon, "a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy." It also does not subject a physician "to liability for fetal death that occurs in the course of administering lawful medical care."</span>

The word lawful may be critical, since Brigham was not licensed.

Riley's lawyers say the law is being misapplied. "We don't think that there is any basis for these charges," Krevor-Weisbaum said.</div></div>

From a Philly paper's coverage, here (http://articles.philly.com/2011-12-31/news/30576814_1_steven-brigham-third-trimester-abortions-abortion-provider/2)

LWW
01-01-2012, 02:21 PM
Sofa ... that post is absolutely devastating to the credibility of anyone attempting to pass themselves off as having even a cursory knowledge of the meaning of the new covenant versus the old covenant, or the new testament vs the old testament, or of the teachings of Christ.

Soflasnapper
01-01-2012, 03:44 PM
We've gone around this topic before.

A fundamentalist does not make that distinction when interpreting scripture, except to exclude Christians from the dietary and other social rules that continue to bind those observing Judaism. While we are not under the law as Christians, I agree, still, the fundamentalists believe that we learn God's enduring will from all scripture, whether from the New Testament or the Old.

You don't even need to be completely and strictly fundamentalist to take positions as I describe, as witnessed by the national push to put up the Ten Commandments in public places (even as much as their typical depiction would appear to violate the prohibition on graven images). Of what concern or benefit to society could such a display be, if God no longer thought such things were worthy, now that we're not under the law?

And with the slightest thought of how to take this to a meta-level, your dissent is easily dismissed in this way:

No, we are no longer bound by the old law. Even Jesus directly contradicted it, 'you have heard, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, BUT I SAY UNTO YOU...' and then he gave the new instructions, contradicting the law's prescriptions with his own gospel of God's mercy and forgiveness, commanding us to do the same.

BUT WHEN GOD DID DEMAND PEOPLE BE UNDER THE LAW, this was the interpretation, which would still be in effect if we WERE under the law. Back then, fetuses (and yes, newborns) were not human lives until later developments.

It would be a stretch to imagine how now, not under the law, people would be in MORE TROUBLE FOR ACTIONS than they were, when actually under the law. I can't come up with a theory to that effect, but I lack your unusual, solipsistic and most imaginative take on most things, so...

Soflasnapper
01-01-2012, 08:42 PM
Breaking down the false or misleading claims in this thread title takes some work.

First, apparently Maryland law allows third trimester abortions. So, by 'pro-death thugs,' LWW must mean the entire state of Maryland, or at least their elected representatives, not just these couple of doctors.

Next, only a small number of the 35 fetuses are described as near-full term, in case third trimester abortions were illegal in general there (which they are not in that state). As there were only a handful of murder indictments, clearly enough, by far most of these fetuses found did not occasion the charges of murder, and the apparent reason to mention them is to prejudice the case with irrelevant details and imply they were all murder victims.

Then, of course, there is an affirmative defense to all of these being murders, which would be that the life of the mother was at stake, or that perhaps rape or incest caused the pregnancies in the first place. There is no claim here that evidence shows they were not that kind of abortion. Presumably the prosecutors found that out in their 14 months of investigation prior to asking the grand jury to indict, but if that is so, it is not mentioned in the linked article.

Lastly, there would be the affirmative defense provided by quotation of the law. There is no showing that any of these procedures were unlawful, except that the doctor(s) licenses had been pulled. If the licenses had been in effect, it seems this would have been entirely legal. Hard to imagine how it's murder or not based on whether the doc(s)' licenses were up to date and in effect.

Except for the vagaries of jury decisions, I think the defense attorneys have it about right.

cushioncrawler
01-01-2012, 08:43 PM
Not forgetting that there iz no such thing az the 10 commandments.

There are zero, or zero, or 10, or 15, or 154 etc commandments (numbers might be out a bit).

But i go with zero -- failing that i go with the 154.

How many did Jesus talk about????
mac.

LWW
01-02-2012, 03:06 AM
It amazes me that you "BELIEVE" what you are told to you believe, yet pontificate on your ability to discern what others ... with whom you never interact ... actually believe.

Yet, it really shouldn't amaze me because you know they believe these things solely because your intellectual masters tell you that you "BELIEVE" these things.

LWW
01-02-2012, 03:08 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First, apparently Maryland law allows third trimester abortions. So, by 'pro-death thugs,' LWW must mean the entire state of Maryland, or at least their elected representatives, not just these couple of doctors.</div></div>

And there you go assigning a straw argument for you to battle with.

wolfdancer
01-02-2012, 03:22 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones </div></div> Psalm 137:9
"....everybody must get stoned" Bob Dylan

"Be happy in your work" Colonel Saito (Bridge over the River Kwai)

LWW
01-02-2012, 03:27 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also have not had the news on all day as I was waiting for it to be spoon fed to me</div></div>

Qtec
01-02-2012, 06:08 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Under a fundamentalist interpretation, the Bible is very clear that an unborn 'child' is nothing of the sort, not any kind of human life, and doesn't even become a 'person' or 'human' in the key meaning of a life for a life, until later. </div></div>

Today's fundamentalists pick and choose what sins are worse than others. If we take this ridiculous standpoint to the extreme, masturbation could become a capital offence!

We all know abortion is a wedge issue for the GOP. Its just a tactic to win votes and divide people along religious lines.

It always amuses me that most of the pro-life mob are all for capital punishment!

Save the poor black babies, execute them later.

Q........Pete said it. just in case it was missed (http://crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/cls-top-videos-2011-21-pete-defazio-s)

LWW
01-02-2012, 06:26 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It always amuses me that most of the pro-life mob are all for capital punishment!

Save the poor black babies, execute them later.

Q</div></div>

The audacity of saving the innocent and punishing the guilty must be shocking to one whose ideology demands sparing the guilty and punishing the innocent.

Gayle in MD
01-02-2012, 08:56 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Under a fundamentalist interpretation, the Bible is very clear that an unborn 'child' is nothing of the sort, not any kind of human life, and doesn't even become a 'person' or 'human' in the key meaning of a life for a life, until later. </div></div>

Today's fundamentalists pick and choose what sins are worse than others. If we take this ridiculous standpoint to the extreme, masturbation could become a capital offence!

We all know abortion is a wedge issue for the GOP. Its just a tactic to win votes and divide people along religious lines.

It always amuses me that most of the pro-life mob are all for capital punishment!

Save the poor black babies, execute them later.

Q........Pete said it. just in case it was missed (http://crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/cls-top-videos-2011-21-pete-defazio-s) </div></div>

Excellent post my friend.

G.

pooltchr
01-02-2012, 09:04 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Save the poor black babies, execute them later.

</div></div>

That is nothing more than a comment designed to perpetuate another one of the big leftist lies. There is a huge difference between killing an innocent unborn child, and an adult who has been found guilty of a capital crime. But that probably wouldn't matter to you, would it?

Steve

pooltchr
01-02-2012, 09:11 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

It always amuses me that most of the pro-life mob are all for capital punishment!

</div></div>

And yet, it probably makes perfect sense to you to fight against capital punishment, and support killing innocent babies.

Steve

LWW
01-03-2012, 03:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Save the poor black babies, execute them later.

</div></div>

That is nothing more than a comment designed to perpetuate another one of the big leftist lies.

Steve </div></div>

That's what parrots do ... they repeat what their intellectual masters tell them that they "BELIEVE."

Soflasnapper
01-09-2012, 06:37 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It always amuses me that most of the pro-life mob are all for capital punishment!

Save the poor black babies, execute them later.

Q</div></div>

The audacity of saving the innocent and punishing the guilty must be shocking to one whose ideology demands sparing the guilty and punishing the innocent. </div></div>

So you, like Perry, rest easy, never worried that allowing the state the ultimate sanction of capital punishment results in the deaths of innocents?

How naive! At least you, unlike Perry, haven't yourself refused to save such an innocent person from unjust execution. I think.

LWW
01-10-2012, 04:07 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So you, like Perry, rest easy, never worried that allowing the state the ultimate sanction of capital punishment results in the deaths of innocents?</div></div>

Name them.

Then we can review how many innocents were murdered by murderers that justice was not delivered to.