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cushioncrawler
02-13-2012, 06:12 AM
A Devon town council acted unlawfully by allowing prayers to be said before meetings, the High Court has ruled.

Action was brought against Bideford Town Council by the National Secular Society (NSS) after atheist councillor Clive Bone complained.

Mr Justice Ouseley ruled the prayers were not lawful under section 111 of the Local Government Act 1972.

However, he said prayers could be said as long as councillors were not formally summoned to attend.

The judgement was being seen as a test case which could affect local councils across England and Wales.

Mr Justice Ouseley ruled the prayers as practised by Bideford Town Council had been unlawful because there was no statutory power permitting them to continue.

The NSS, which said prayers had no place in "a secular environment concerned with civic business", argued the "inappropriate" ritual breached articles 9 and 14 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which protect an individual's right to freedom of conscience and not to face discrimination.

'No power' However, the case was not won on human rights grounds, but on a point of statutory construction of local government legislation.

Mr Justice Ouseley said: "A local authority has no power under section 111 of the Local Government Act 1972, or otherwise, to hold prayers as part of a formal local authority meeting, or to summon councillors to such a meeting at which prayers are on the agenda."

He told the court: "There is no specific power to say prayers or to have any period of quiet reflection as part of the business of the council."

Referring to Bideford, he said: "The council has on two occasions by a majority voted to retain public prayers at its full meetings.

"But that does not give it power to do what it has no power to do."

The judge acknowledged the case raised issues of general public importance and gave the council permission to appeal.

LWW
02-13-2012, 06:28 AM
That is a travesty.

Sorry to hear that Oz has such an oppressive system.

Qtec
02-13-2012, 06:40 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is a travesty.

Sorry to hear that Oz has such an oppressive system. </div></div>


LOL. Its in England Snoopy!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The NSS, which said prayers had no place in "a secular environment concerned with civic business", argued the "inappropriate" ritual breached articles 9 and 14 of the <span style='font-size: 26pt'>European Convention on Human Rights</span>, which protect an individual's right to freedom of conscience and not to face discrimination. </div></div>


For you, that's somewhere in the UK.

Q......LMAO

Qtec
02-13-2012, 06:42 AM
here you go Snoopy........LMAO (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-16980025)

Q /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

LWW
02-13-2012, 01:41 PM
Funny talking Limeys either way ... but to think that this amounts to discrimination is insane.

Oh ... and stop confusing yourself with myself.

cushioncrawler
02-13-2012, 02:07 PM
Religion iz disgusting -- pornography -- Godma -- Faithizm.
Nice to see Atheizm growing so well.
mac.

LWW
02-13-2012, 02:13 PM
What gives you the right to force your beliefs onto others?

Oh ... BTW ... there is no such thing as an atheist.

sack316
02-13-2012, 05:38 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Oh ... BTW ... there is no such thing as an atheist. </div></div>

Just curious, but is that along the lines of "there is no such thing as darkness, only an absence of light"?

Sack

LWW
02-13-2012, 06:42 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Oh ... BTW ... there is no such thing as an atheist. </div></div>

Just curious, but is that along the lines of "there is no such thing as darkness, only an absence of light"?

Sack </div></div>

Kind of.

There are people who wish to convince their own self that they are the highest form of consciousness in the universe, but they are wrong.

Quantum physics, as but one example, points strongly to the idea that the universe in which we live does not exist unless and until it is witnessed by consciousness ... or, IOW, it is the conscious observation of reality that creates the reality.

sack316
02-14-2012, 09:24 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Quantum physics, as but one example, points strongly to the idea that the universe in which we live does not exist unless and until it is witnessed by consciousness ... or, IOW, it is the conscious observation of reality that creates the reality. </div></div>

One thing I was always curious about is perception and how our minds compute the data... and how varied "reality" may be from person to person.

I could write a whole novel explaining it, but I'll try my simplest thought. I see a blue sky. So do you. Could the actual color you see be "my" red, but you simply refer to it as blue because that's what you were always told that particular color was? Hence we are in agreement on WHAT to call it, but in reality we are seeing two totally different things.

Sack

cushioncrawler
02-14-2012, 02:37 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What gives you the right to force your beliefs onto others? Oh ... BTW ... there is no such thing as an atheist. </div></div>atheist atheism and atheize are in the Oxford. But its a bit confuzing.
atheist --- U might be an atheist if u dont beleev in the existance of any one god. In which case everyone iz an atheist -- koz i dont think that anyone beleevs in all gods.

But praps it meens that if u beleev in the existance of even one god of some sort then u aint an atheist.

Oxford allso sez that an atheist iz (kan be) godless. The word godless probly meens that u dont love or follow a god -- ie that u beleev in a god of some sort but u dont like or love or follow that god. Dunno.

ElDubb i think duznt beleev in all say 100 ChristianLand Gods -- ElDubb i think beleevs in only one God, ie three Gods (whatever).
And Eldubb i think duznt beleev in the say 1000 other gods out there somewhere in religionLand.
Thusly ElDubb duznt beleev in 1099 gods or Gods.
Mac duznt beleev in 1100 gods or Gods.
Mac and ElDubb mostly agree by the looks of it.
There iz allmost no difference tween an Atheist and a Christian. Just one God here or there difference.
mac.

cushioncrawler
02-14-2012, 02:40 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What gives you the right to force your beliefs onto others? Oh ... BTW ... there is no such thing as an atheist. </div></div>Oxford sez that atheize iz to convert to atheism. That there givs me the right.
If there twerent a word for it then i would be up shit creek -- but Oxford kums to the rescue.
mac.

cushioncrawler
02-14-2012, 02:49 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What gives you the right to force your beliefs onto others? Oh ... BTW ... there is no such thing as an atheist. </div></div>I am thinking that no-one haz the right to do something that iz impossible.
It iz impossible to make someone believe something. A man convinced againt hiz will iz a nonbeliever still.

One of the rules in the The Holey Bible iz that u must love God.
Likewize here. No one kan be made to love anything.

Praps it iz scientifikally possible to brainwash a kid who hates say peanut butter for say 50 years and force them to in the end to genuinely like peanut butter. But praps what u end up with iz someone who likes peanut butter and haz braindamage, ie like a Christian.
mac.

LWW
02-14-2012, 04:52 PM
Google "SHRODINGER'S CAT" or the Heisenberg uncertainty principle for some awakening.

BTW ... the sky is not actually blue until someone looks at it.

cushioncrawler
02-14-2012, 06:16 PM
I dont go along with that cat bizness.
And the uncertainty principle iz bullshit -- and it aint science.
But i go along with the consciousness stuff.
mac.

LWW
02-15-2012, 03:48 AM
Oxford then also proves the existence of SANTA CLAUS (http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/Santa%2BClaus?q=santa+claus) ... so it seems that you believe in both?

I believe in neither.

LWW
02-15-2012, 03:49 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont go along with that cat bizness.
And the uncertainty principle iz bullshit -- and it aint science.
But i go along with the consciousness stuff.
mac. </div></div>

They are inseparable.

sack316
02-15-2012, 07:49 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Google "SHRODINGER'S CAT" or the Heisenberg uncertainty principle for some awakening.

BTW ... the sky is not actually blue until someone looks at it. </div></div>

And even then, it's only blue because someone else defined it as such to us. For that matter, it's only the sky for the same reason.

Sack