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DiabloViejo
03-29-2012, 12:51 AM
Breaking News: Surveillance Video Reveals No Bruises Or Blood On George Zimmerman On Night Of Shooting (VIDEO)
March 28, 2012
By Wendy Gittleson

A police surveillance video was just released which appears to contradict George Zimmermanís story that he was shoved to the ground by Trayvon Martin, who his attorney claims broke Zimmermanís nose and bloodied the back of his head.

An officer at the crime scene verified Zimmermanís account in the police report, but the just released video shows no blood or bruises.

Hereís the video:

Video--No bruises or blood on Zimmerman (http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/03/28/breaking-news-surveillance-video-reveals-no-bruises-or-blood-on-george-zimmerman-on-night-of-shooting-video/)

Qtec
03-29-2012, 01:08 AM
Doesn't look like a guy who has been beat up. Certainly not like a guy who has been so beaten that he had to use lethal force to save his own life.



Then again, there's more to this. I am afraid that the initial police investigation was flawed and the real truth about this incident might never be know.

Q

LWW
03-29-2012, 02:21 AM
He's a demokrook ... the son of a retired demokrook judge who has pull with the demokrook ran police union.

That a demokrook might use their influence with corrupt demokrook ran organizations should make you happy?

Beyond that ... you have again rushed to judgement based on race baiting by the media.

Qtec
03-29-2012, 02:49 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He's a demokrook </div></div>

Really? Thanks for that, now its all clear. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Q

LWW
03-29-2012, 03:54 AM
The next point is that you, once again, only "SEE" what you are told that you "SEE" as evidenced by the video itself:

http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Zimmerman-ABC-video-enhanced-caption.jpg

DiabloViejo
03-29-2012, 11:04 AM
Apparently, Zimmerman has amazing self healing powers like a mutant!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/560367_418921321466718_108038612554992_1599335_498 408086_n.jpg

Soflasnapper
03-29-2012, 11:07 AM
LWW, you make a few good points, along with your usual garbage remarks (making this a GOP/Democrat issue? For shame!)

But basically, this video is at best suggestive, and in no way dispositive, either way.

For some unknown reason, probably how the skull bones knit together as a person matures, plenty of people have what look to be furrows on their heads, resembling some kind of prior wound, or surgical scars, when that is not the case at all.

Shane Battier, now a member of the Miami Heat, occasionally shows this when his hair is as closely cropped as this video still shows Zimmerman's hair. It looks like deep creases that run from front to back on Battier (which cannot be seen if he even has slightly longer hair), and to the degree that when I noticed a very short hair cut on the guy recently, I exclaimed 'holy crap, what happened to his head?" That's watching on hd television feeds, not this low-res station monitoring camera result.

http://i34.tinypic.com/30ikthw.jpg

President Obama has similar head furrows, that look like surgical scars, visible or not depending on the length of his hair, camera angles, maybe if Grecian Formula is used (LOL!), etc.

Without the date stamp we should see here, this may or may not be the video from that date, as Mr. Zimmerman has had multiple arrests (some felony arrests) and therefore video-taped walks into the station from those events.

While of course any judicial findings will require whatever best evidence exists (photos from the scene at the time of his head preferred, records of his treatment if any at a medical facility the next day not as credible, given the possibility of self-inflicted wounds in the meantime to beat a homicide rap), that requires that there BE judicial findings in the first place, which are not now in evidence because there have been none.

And that is the problem, leading to untoward over-reading of flawed evidence.

Qtec
03-29-2012, 11:24 AM
I would also like to add that the mark is on top of his head.

Not really consistent with him lying on his back having his head banged against the ground.

Q

Soflasnapper
03-29-2012, 11:40 AM
Good point. Seems you'd have to be using the EDGE of the curb to get a straight line wound anyway. Could be something pre-existing from his violent domestic violence arrest, or his violent felony assault on a police officer arrest.

However, as it appears and then disappears, plainly INVISIBLE on some straight on head views, it could be a shadow playing over his head as well, which when subjected to over-done 'enhancement,' gives a profoundly misleading impression (esp. on this low-res reproduction. Think they use VHS recording instead of digital there?)

LWW
03-30-2012, 03:11 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would also like to add that the mark is on top of his head.

Not really consistent with him lying on his back having his head banged against the ground.

Q </div></div>

You really are that much of a tool aren't you.

So tell me what part of head that is which is in front of and above what you say the top of his head is?

LWW
03-30-2012, 03:12 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LWW, you make a few good points, along with your usual garbage remarks (making this a GOP/Democrat issue? For shame!)

But basically, this video is at best suggestive, and in no way dispositive, either way.

For some unknown reason, probably how the skull bones knit together as a person matures, plenty of people have what look to be furrows on their heads, resembling some kind of prior wound, or surgical scars, when that is not the case at all.

Shane Battier, now a member of the Miami Heat, occasionally shows this when his hair is as closely cropped as this video still shows Zimmerman's hair. It looks like deep creases that run from front to back on Battier (which cannot be seen if he even has slightly longer hair), and to the degree that when I noticed a very short hair cut on the guy recently, I exclaimed 'holy crap, what happened to his head?" That's watching on hd television feeds, not this low-res station monitoring camera result.

http://i34.tinypic.com/30ikthw.jpg

President Obama has similar head furrows, that look like surgical scars, visible or not depending on the length of his hair, camera angles, maybe if Grecian Formula is used (LOL!), etc.

Without the date stamp we should see here, this may or may not be the video from that date, as Mr. Zimmerman has had multiple arrests (some felony arrests) and therefore video-taped walks into the station from those events.

While of course any judicial findings will require whatever best evidence exists (photos from the scene at the time of his head preferred, records of his treatment if any at a medical facility the next day not as credible, given the possibility of self-inflicted wounds in the meantime to beat a homicide rap), that requires that there BE judicial findings in the first place, which are not now in evidence because there have been none.

And that is the problem, leading to untoward over-reading of flawed evidence. </div></div>

What you jave shown are:

1 - Scalp muscles contracting.

2 - A total aversion to reality.

Soflasnapper
03-30-2012, 05:35 PM
Scalp muscles contracting?

I doubt that. Scalp muscles are in front and back, so contracting these would create creases going the way you see in your forehead, meaning at right angles to these lines of Battier's. I think those are fleshy folds of scalp that are always there, quite apart from muscles contracting.

And THIS would be.... (?)

http://wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/obama1.png

Qtec
04-01-2012, 02:16 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote]Itís raining and heís just walking around, looking about. </div></div>

If it was raining and you were rolling about in the grass, with someone on top of you, would you not be dirty?
Wouldn't it be obvious if you were wearing a red/orange light coloured jacket?

In the video he looks clean and unharmed.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bill Maher On Zimmerman Tape: Is There Any Doubt That He Is A ĎBig F*cking Liar?í </div></div> link (http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bill-maher-on-george-zimmerman-tape-is-there-any-doubt-that-he-is-a-big-fcking-liar/)

Q

LWW
04-01-2012, 05:06 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scalp muscles contracting?

I doubt that. Scalp muscles are in front and back, so contracting these would create creases going the way you see in your forehead, meaning at right angles to these lines of Battier's. I think those are fleshy folds of scalp that are always there, quite apart from muscles contracting.

And THIS would be.... (?)

http://wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/obama1.png </div></div>

Thank you so much for proving yourself wrong for me.

You are now claiming that your "PROOF" is that since scalp muscles run in the horizontal plain they explain what the photos demonstrate occurring in the vertical plane.

Your ability of self delusion on your handler's command is breathtaking.

Dance some more for us.

DiabloViejo
04-01-2012, 11:51 AM
Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recording, 2 experts say
5:38 p.m. EST, March 31, 2012|
By Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scient)

As the Trayvon Martin controversy splinters into a debate about self-defense, a central question remains: Who was heard crying for help on a 911 call in the moments before the teen was shot?

A leading expert in the field of forensic voice identification sought to answer that question by analyzing the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel.

His result: It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.

Tom Owen, forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and <u>chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence</u>, used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman. Another expert contacted by the Sentinel, utilizing different techniques, came to the same conclusion.

Zimmerman claims self-defense in the shooting and told police he was the one screaming for help. But these experts say the evidence tells a different story.

'Scientific certainty'

On a rainy night in late February, a woman called 911 to report someone crying out for help in her gated Sanford community, Retreat at Twin Lakes.

Though several of her neighbors eventually called authorities, she phoned early enough for dispatchers to hear the panicked cries and the gunshot that took Trayvon Martin's life.

George Zimmerman, a Neighborhood Watch volunteer, shot Trayvon, an unarmed 17-year-old, during a one-on-one confrontation Feb. 26.

Before the shot, one of them can be heard screaming for help.

Owen, a court-qualified expert witness and former chief engineer for the New York Public Library's Rodgers and Hammerstein Archives of Recorded Sound, is an authority on biometric voice analysis ó a computerized process comparing attributes of voices to determine whether they match.

After the Sentinel contacted Owen, he used software called Easy Voice Biometrics to compare Zimmerman's voice to the 911 call screams.

"I took all of the screams and put those together, and cut out everything else," Owen says.

The software compared that audio to Zimmerman's voice. It returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent.

"As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman," Owen says, stressing that he cannot confirm the voice as Trayvon's, because he didn't have a sample of the teen's voice to compare.

Forensic voice identification is not a new or novel concept; in fact, a recent U.S. Department of Justice committee report notes that federal interest in the technology "has a history of nearly 70 years."

In the post 9-11 world, Owen says, voice identification is "the main biometric tool" used to track international criminals, as well as terrorists.

"These people don't leave fingerprints, but they do still need to talk to one another," he says.

'The home run'

Though the term "biometric analysis" may sound futuristic, it basically just means using personal characteristics for identification. A fingerprint scanner is an example of a biometric device.

Much as the ridges of a human hand produce a fingerprint, each human voice has unique, distinguishable traits, Owen says. "They're all particular to the individual."

Another benefit of modern biometric analysis, Owen said, is it doesn't require an "in context" comparison. In other words, Owen didn't need a sample of Zimmerman screaming in order to compare his voice to the call.

The technology Owen used to analyze the Zimmerman tape has a wide range of applications, including national security and international policing, he said. A recently as January, Owen used the same technology to identify accused murderer Sheila Davalloo in a 911 call made almost a decade ago.

Owen testified that it was Davalloo, accused of stabbing another woman nine times in a condo in Shippan, Conn., who reported the killing to police from a pay phone in November 2002.

Davalloo was convicted, according to news reports.

Owen says the audio from Zimmerman's call is much better quality than the 911 call in the Davalloo case. Voice identification experts judge the quality based on a signal-to-noise ratio; in other words, comparing the usable audio in a clip to the environmental noises that make a match difficult.

And the call on which the screams are heard is better quality than is necessary, Owen says.

"In our world, that's the home run," he says.

Not all experts rely on biometrics. Ed Primeau, a Michigan-based audio engineer and forensics expert, is not a believer in the technology's use in courtroom settings.

He relies instead on audio enhancement and human analysis based on forensic experience. After listening closely to the 911 tape on which the screams are heard, Primeau also has a strong opinion.

"I believe that's Trayvon Martin in the background, without a doubt," Primeau says, stressing that the tone of the voice is a giveaway. "That's a young man screaming."

Soflasnapper
04-01-2012, 12:14 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scalp muscles contracting?

I doubt that. Scalp muscles are in front and back, so contracting these would create creases going the way you see in your forehead, meaning at right angles to these lines of Battier's. I think those are fleshy folds of scalp that are always there, quite apart from muscles contracting.

And THIS would be.... (?)

http://wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/obama1.png </div></div>

Thank you so much for proving yourself wrong for me.

You are now claiming that your "PROOF" is that since scalp muscles run in the horizontal plain they explain what the photos demonstrate occurring in the vertical plane.

Your ability of self delusion on your handler's command is breathtaking.

Dance some more for us. </div></div>

Please point out my use of the word 'proof,' or even the concept mentioned loosely.

You cannot, because that isn't what I said or implied.

Mainly, I think people show various head 'scars' from how the skull bones knit together with maturation. (Per the Obama scar furor back a little while when it came out, as seen above.)

Some people have fat- and skin-fold- created creases in their scalp, a different matter from bones' suturing themselves with maturing. This is what I think is going on with Shane Battier-- not ridges from scalp muscle contraction, but a constant feature of his head's landscape, when entirely at repose with regard to scalp muscle contractions.


And yes, since there are only the front scalp and back scalp areas that have such underlying musculature, and you can readily see what contracting the front part of those muscles does on your forehead (it creases them horizontally, as in the usual aging furrowing that occurs over time with that use and is seen immediately when done, prior to the creation of the furrows seen at rest), I certainly do believe that any such contractions would make for lines across the sides of the scalp, not front to back.

To recap, I don't even think the scalp muscle thing is in play, preferring the TWO OTHER EXPLANATIONS I have now re-explained more slowly for your comprehension. Knitted bone sutures created as the skull muscles coalesce/fuse, or skin/fat folds (there whether there are scalp muscles contracting or not).

If this THIRD of my explanations comes into play, scalp muscles appearance affects, I still don't think you'd get front to back lines out of their contraction. But that isn't my PROOF, nor especially even my theory of what we see here, having 2 other things in mind ahead of this odd theory of yours.

http://images.hugi.is/box/113782.gif

Soflasnapper
04-01-2012, 12:35 PM
Assuming this holds up (or a more accurate analysis shows the same thing), this is exactly what is needed on such a paucity of other evidence.

If Z is shown to have lied about who was calling for help, and if TM was calling for help instead of it being him, such impeachment of Z's statement colors all the rest of his responses with doubt, too. It would lead to a manslaughter conviction, IMO, and result in Z's having some new boyfriends.

Qtec
04-02-2012, 05:05 AM
If you are walking along the street and you see someone walking that you think is suspicious, 'possibly on drugs', do you follow him?

We know from the evidence that the kid said, "why are you following me?"

What if it was a white kid who was being followed by a black guy and suddenly the follower is in his face asking, "what are you doing here" and the white kid shoots him?

That might be considered confrontational and under the law, its the kid who has the right to stand his ground.

IMO, it comes down to the point as to did Z have the right [ under this Law] to shoot him?

Z was never under threat of his life. He chose to create that situation. When he confronted the kid, he never said he was with Community Watch or anything like that. Just because the kid tried to protect himself from this nutjob, is not reason to use lethal force.

If this ever comes to trail, Zimmerman is FKD.

Q


Q

eg8r
04-02-2012, 06:58 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are walking along the street and you see someone walking that you think is suspicious, 'possibly on drugs', do you follow him?
</div></div>You do if you are on neighborhood watch (and then back down when the emergency operator tells you to).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What if it was a white kid who was being followed by a black guy and suddenly the follower is in his face asking, "what are you doing here" and the white kid shoots him?
</div></div>Another attempt at race-baiting. Pathetic.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
04-02-2012, 09:10 AM
I agree with you, but wonder why you addressed it to me?

I will add, however, that I can envision a situation where Z would still be within his reasonable self-defense rights, and the story we've been leaked so far is close to doing that.

We've heard various supporters of the law, like former Gov. Jeb (John E. Bush) Bush, and the key sponsor of the SYG law, state that as soon as one is the aggressor, or initiates a fight, one loses the SYG right.

The problem is that they seem to be referring to the older common law treatment, whereas this law itself doesn't seem to provide that way to say the SYG law stopped being in effect as soon as a stupid act of escalation occurred by the one who would end up needing to invoke it.

However, the usual rules for CWP holders would still apply, and perhaps it is there that the exception or cancelling of the SYG act's get out of jail free card may be found.

Heard a Florida CWP holder state that a condition of that license is that the weapon BE CONCEALED. We've heard that Z kept it on a holster on his belt, but had a jacket that could have covered it, I suppose.