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DiabloViejo
04-03-2012, 06:01 PM
If You Are Sick, Mitt Romney Wants You To Shop For The Cheapest Hospital (VIDEO)
April 3, 2012
By Wendy Gittleson
Addicting Info (http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/04/03/if-you-are-sick-mitt-romney-wants-you-to-shop-for-the-cheapest-hospital-video/)

One of the most common arguments used by conservatives is that healthcare is actually not expensive enough and if people had more financial investment in their healthcare, they would make better decisions. Mitt Romney jumped onto that bandwagon in a town hall meeting in Wisconsin on Monday.

Here is the video: YouTube (http://youtu.be/Aku2XFg-Rjw)

<span style="color: #FF0000">"If you’re unfortunate enough to get a very serious condition and you have the insurance most people have. You pay the deductible and then it’s free! And so, you’ll go to a doctor and a hospital. You’d never think of asking about how much it’s going to cost because you don’t pay the bill — the insurance company does. In other countries like Switzerland, they have the patient pay 20 percent of the bill for elective surgeries and of course if it’s an emergency they don’t. But that gives you the chance to shop around….I’m also not naive enough to think that there would be a heck of a lot of problems that would be better run if we got the government out and turned back to the free market."</span>

There are several problems with Romney’s solution, the first being that Americans are very invested in the healthcare system. On average, a family of four pays $8000 a year in-out-of pocket expenses and that number continues to rise as healthcare costs rise.

The second problem is practicality. Healthcare is not a commodity like gasoline, which is basically the same, no matter where you go. If someone is sick, they want the best doctor, not the cheapest. By hiring the best doctors, patients often save money in the long run. A less expensive orthopedic surgeon, for example, might use non-state of the art technology, resulting in a need to ‘go back under’ with a few years. A better doctor might be able to diagnose with fewer tests.

The third problem is that there is very little room to shop around. One of the biggest reasons for rising healthcare costs are medical monopolies. If every hospital, every testing clinic and every lab in any given area is owned by just one or two corporations, is there really choice in healthcare?

The final problem is that Romney is cherry-picking his countries. Switzerland has the third highest per capita healthcare spending rate. One of the lowest in the world is New Zealand, which according to 2008 figures, spent just $2,683 per capita for healthcare, including government contribution, insurance premiums and out-of-pocket expenses. By contrast, the US spent $7,538 and Switzerland spent $4,627. People in New Zealand averaged just $372 out-of-pocket while in the US and Switzerland, the average was $912 and $756, respectively. Both New Zealand and Switzerland rank higher than the US in average life expectancy.

Romney’s theory has been fully debunked when comparing to systems like Germany and Canada. Both have virtually no out-of-pocket costs and neither country is experiencing rampant medical inflation.

Qtec
04-04-2012, 12:56 AM
Romney just opens his mouth and says the first thing that comes into his head. He doesn't care if its true or not. To me that shows he has no respect for voters.

Come the election, he will get crushed. Like Obama said, "he doesn't need to make ads, just run the GOP debates.

What Americans don't seem to realise is that these whacky comments go all around the world. A case in point.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mitt Romney is getting some heat from Dmitry Medvedev and House Speaker John Boehner for calling Russia the "No. 1 geopolitical foe" of the United States.

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>The Russian president said today that Romney's comments, made during a CNN interview on Monday, are out of date. The speaker, meanwhile, said it's not right for anyone to criticize Obama or the United States while the president is traveling overseas.</span>

BLOG: Obama explains hot mike comment

Romney's comments about Russia came after Obama was caught on an open microphone telling his counterpart Medvedev that he'd have more "flexibility" to deal with missile defense issues after the general election.

Medvedev said Romney's comments were "very reminiscent of Hollywood and also of a certain phase of Russian-U.S. relations." <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Medvedev counseled the GOP front-runner to <u>"listen to reason" before articulating his positions.</u></span> </div></div>

ie, what FKN dilhole!
ie, if you want to be a world leader, act like one!!!!!!!!!! Don't go blabbing about something you haven't even thought about and call an ally your biggest threat.



Q

LWW
04-04-2012, 04:00 AM
If you truly believe this ... then you must believe that the state should set all prices.

eg8r
04-04-2012, 09:11 AM
It is funny to see this author completely fabricate a story around something Mitt never even said. The heading to the article is the glaring lie. Reading the quoted text in read shows you that Mitt has merely said in America people don't care, they pay their deductible and go see a doctor. He then said OTHER countries force their citizens to shop around due to the high 20% bill.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
04-04-2012, 10:13 AM
I’m also not naive enough to think that there would be a heck of a lot of problems that would be better run if we got the government out and turned back to the free market."

Hard to know if he meant this literally, or got confused with his syntax and means the opposite of what he actually said?

If literally, he says he's not so naive as to think there are a lot of problems the market would fix, if the government would only but out. (I think this is true.)

Did he mean to say that? I doubt it.

Soflasnapper
04-04-2012, 10:17 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is funny to see this author completely fabricate a story around something Mitt never even said. The heading to the article is the glaring lie. Reading the quoted text in read shows you that Mitt has merely said in America people don't care, they pay their deductible and go see a doctor. He then said OTHER countries force their citizens to shop around due to the high 20% bill.

eg8r </div></div>

If that wasn't what Romney was driving at, his raising it makes little sense. For you to be right, the candidate has to have been making non sequitur remarks that actually meant nothing with regard to the discussion he was engaged in.

I find Romney somewhat incoherent at times, but I would not take the position that he randomly cites things he appears to approve of, without the underlying implied approval meaning what it appears to mean.

So, as he cited OTHER countries as doing things which he claims help save money in their systems, it's at least a backhanded leaning toward exactly what the headline writer said.

Claiming otherwise leaves you straining to explain what in fact WAS being said, with far less plausibility than the obvious conclusion, that he meant exactly what it seems he meant-- that by being forced to pay more, Americans would shop around and save money as they allegedly do elsewhere.

Wait, isn't that EUROPE he's referring to? Gulp!

eg8r
04-04-2012, 12:18 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If that wasn't what Romney was driving at, his raising it makes little sense.</div></div>Who are you to make implications? He is saying Americans don't care because they can go wherever. Then he points out that other countries force their citizens to shop around. Because we don't have to, we don't.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but I would not take the position that he randomly cites things he appears to approve of, without the underlying implied approval meaning what it appears to mean.
</div></div>I missed the part where he cited this implying approval? He is merely making a statement.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
04-04-2012, 12:31 PM
If you play poker, you may realize things are indeed said that are left unsaid (i.e., a 'check' when it's your turn to bet means 'I don't have a great hand to raise on here.'). Like a zen koan, things being said that are unsaid is self-contradictory on its face but containing a profound point that is true.

He explicitly made an unflattering comparison of how other countries do it (better), and how we do it (worse). The better and worse characterizations are clearly there, if somewhat unspoken.

Then the conclusion remains unstated, but equally there. If there is a better way to do it, that saves money by incentivizing the consumer to shop around, you would say despite his agreeing with that characterization (his own statements), he is clearly neutral as to what that indicates?

I say to the contrary of that, that he is implying what he doesn't quite get to saying, that our system ought to include such additional costs to the consumer so that they exercise some economy in their care. (He's wrong in that most people DO have co-pays for all their typical services.)

eg8r
04-04-2012, 01:44 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He explicitly made an unflattering comparison of how other countries do it (better), and how we do it (worse). </div></div>I did not go to the link and this was not in the quoted part so what part are you referring to?

eg8r

Soflasnapper
04-04-2012, 02:43 PM
You pay the deductible and then it’s free! And so, you’ll go to a doctor and a hospital. You’d never think of asking about how much it’s going to cost because you don’t pay the bill — the insurance company does. In other countries like Switzerland, they have the patient pay 20 percent of the bill for elective surgeries and of course if it’s an emergency they don’t. But that gives you the chance to shop around….

eg8r
04-04-2012, 03:06 PM
All you have posted is merely a statement that can be interpreted how you want but not necessarily the intended way.

eg8r

cushioncrawler
04-04-2012, 04:08 PM
The usofa iz sick.
And will never be 100%.
mac.

eg8r
04-04-2012, 06:36 PM
LOL, at least we aren't Ozz.

eg8r

Qtec
04-04-2012, 11:41 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Romney Touted The Co-Insurance Model Used By The French And Swiss Where Individuals Are Responsible For 20 Percent Of Their Adding
“You Care How Much The Bill Is Because You Aren’t Just Going To Pay The First $1,000, You Pay 20%.” “Believe it or not, the French and the Swiss have some ideas that might be relevant. They have something called co-insurance; you are responsible for 20% of your hospital bill in France. So you care how much the bill is because you aren’t just going to pay the first $1000, you pay 20%. I understand for the poor they don’t charge that 20%, and if its an emergency they don’t charge that 20%, <u>but if you have time to shop around they want you to shop around.</u>” [Portsmouth Herald Editoril Board Interview, 11/3/11] </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Romney Touted Switzerland’s Co-Insurance Health Care Model As “Something The States Might Want To Look At.”
“In the interview yesterday, Romney said there are policies of European nations that could be worth considering in the United States. Switzerland, he said, has a health care model where people pay about 20 percent of their medical bills, giving them an incentive to consider cost when making medical decisions. ‘I'm not going to adopt a Swiss health care system, <span style='font-size: 14pt'>but the power of incentives in a co-insurance model that the Swiss have is something states might want to look at</span>,’ </div></div>

link (http://www.democrats.org/news/january-19-GOP-debate/mitt_romney_borrowing_ideas_from_europe)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The heading to the article is the glaring lie. </div></div>

Wrong,its <u>exactly</u> what he is proposing. If you had watched the video you would know that at the 1.30 mark, Romney says,

'if your Doctor says you need an MRI and you have to pay 20% of the cost, you would be asking him, "where can I get the cheapest one?"'.

Q

eg8r
04-05-2012, 09:02 AM
LOL, it is funny that the second article you quote actually negates itself. You keep saying that he is "touting" this "shop around" idea, yet he is not doing it at all. What is happening here is a very "logical" person is speaking and you and others are not logical so you don't understand what he is saying.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Romney Touted Switzerland’s Co-Insurance Health Care Model As “Something The States Might Want To Look At.”
“In the interview yesterday, Romney said there are policies of European nations that could be worth considering in the United States. Switzerland, he said, has a health care model where people pay about 20 percent of their medical bills, giving them an incentive to consider cost when making medical decisions. ‘I'm not going to adopt a Swiss health care system, but the power of incentives in a co-insurance model that the Swiss have is something states might want to look at,’ </div></div>He is not touting the system or the idea at all. What he is saying is that it is worth looking at. Sofla would understand this but he is in "attack Romney" mode and not thinking in his normally logical way. Basically when people are looking to start up "anything" they look at "everything". They see what is successful and at the same time evaluate what might be unsuccessful. That is how you learn from past mistakes. Romney might like the idea (he is a socialist at heart) but he isn't saying that. All he is saying is that it must be evaluated. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend? Don't answer, I already know, you have your head in the sand and refuse to logically think about what is being said and instead just attack what you think was said.

eg8r

Qtec
04-06-2012, 04:09 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He is not touting the system or the idea at all. What<u> he is saying is that it is worth looking at.</u> </div></div>

Isn't that the same?
He's not saying that is should be considered 'because he is totally against it!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Romney might like the idea </div></div>

Obviously, otherwise he would NEVER have mentioned it, several times!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All he is saying is that it must be evaluated. </div></div>

Yes because he thinks its a good idea.

Q

eg8r
04-06-2012, 07:58 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Isn't that the same?
</div></div>Absolutely not. Maybe a quick check of your dictionary will help you understand what "tout" means. It is quite obvious this is a new word for you.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Obviously, otherwise he would NEVER have mentioned it, several times!
</div></div>Once again you are wrong and show that you even lack a bit of common sense. I know, you have never had a job that required any responsibility on your part but in the real world where decisions are made all successful companies and people in business evaluate all, or as many as possible, options including those they may or may not be for.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes because he thinks its a good idea.
</div></div>Whether he does or does not is irrelevant. I am commenting on the words you are putting in his mouth. He never said what your subject heading says and you have continued to defend this position yet showing clear lack of comprehension or business acumen.

eg8r

Qtec
04-07-2012, 03:31 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Absolutely not. Maybe a quick check of your dictionary will help you understand what "tout" means. It is quite obvious this is a new word for you. </div></div>

It seems that D,Sofla and myself disagree with you. Of course, we are all wrong and you are right. Is that it?

Just to show how ridiculous your argument is.

"Mitt..........

"How do we solve the problem of illegal immigrants? Hitler had a plan to get rid of unwanted parts of the population. He called it "the Final Solution". Maybe the States should look at that and consider it."

....and you say Mitt isn't proposing this as a good idea!!!!!!!!!!


Q

Qtec
04-07-2012, 03:41 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know, <u>you have never had a job that required any responsibility on your part </u></div></div>

Why the personal attack? Why is it when you have no answer to my points you attack me?

Just for the record Dilhole,I worked at the Playboy Club Park Lane on the day it closed.
I was a Gaming Inspector on the Punto Banco table. 12 boxes, max bet 9,000 pounds. As I recall about $20,000 US per box.

Yeah, $240,000 3 per minutes!!!!!!!!!!

ie, in one hour, I was responsible for more money that you can will ever make in your entire life.


Q.......what a dilhole you are sometimes.

eg8r
04-07-2012, 02:26 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It seems that D,Sofla and myself disagree with you. </div></div>LOL, well that is no surprise. The 3 sucking from Obama's teat don't want to take off their rose colored glasses.

eg8r

eg8r
04-07-2012, 02:27 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why the personal attack? Why is it when you have no answer to my points you attack me?
</div></div>Why would you expect any credibility if you have no experience in the things you talk about?

eg8r

Soflasnapper
04-07-2012, 05:59 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL, it is funny that the second article you quote actually negates itself. You keep saying that he is "touting" this "shop around" idea, yet he is not doing it at all. What is happening here is a very "logical" person is speaking and you and others are not logical so you don't understand what he is saying.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Romney Touted Switzerland’s Co-Insurance Health Care Model As “Something The States Might Want To Look At.”
“In the interview yesterday, Romney said there are policies of European nations that could be worth considering in the United States. Switzerland, he said, has a health care model where people pay about 20 percent of their medical bills, giving them an incentive to consider cost when making medical decisions. ‘I'm not going to adopt a Swiss health care system, but the power of incentives in a co-insurance model that the Swiss have is something states might want to look at,’ </div></div>He is not touting the system or the idea at all. What he is saying is that it is worth looking at. Sofla would understand this but he is in "attack Romney" mode and not thinking in his normally logical way. Basically when people are looking to start up "anything" they look at "everything". They see what is successful and at the same time evaluate what might be unsuccessful. That is how you learn from past mistakes. Romney might like the idea (he is a socialist at heart) but he isn't saying that. All he is saying is that it must be evaluated. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend? Don't answer, I already know, you have your head in the sand and refuse to logically think about what is being said and instead just attack what you think was said.

eg8r </div></div>

'Touting' may not be entirely correct, but try 'brought up with an approving mention.' About the same thing.

Surely, he didn't bring it up because he was NOT recommending it, at least as something to look into (with an eye to adopting ourselves). It's not as if he were neutral on the subject-- he's recommending it to our attention for our policy consideration, finding merit in it.

I have agreed in some past cases that people were playing games with what Romney said (against him), and I've spoken out or written that, when appropriate. This case doesn't strike me as a similar example of that, and really, it's more you who are the dancing apologist in this case.

BTW, before this whole primary season began, I preferred Romney to any of his competitors (on that side, to be clear!), thinking at least he was smart, rational, and would try to do a good job, should he achieve office in November's election.

Now, I find myself in agreement with his detractors on the conservative side, as to his lack of moorings and principles and compass, and now dread his possible victory.

Qtec
04-08-2012, 04:39 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Why would you expect any credibility if you have no experience in the things you talk about?

eg8r </div></div>

Please describe<span style='font-size: 23pt'> YOUR </span>history in HC.

Be specific.

Q........Dilhole.

eg8r
04-08-2012, 05:03 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">'Touting' may not be entirely correct, but try 'brought up with an approving mention.' About the same thing.
</div></div>Wow, the guy with the big thesaurus is starting to throw definitions out the window to suit his position.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Surely, he didn't bring it up because he was NOT recommending it, at least as something to look into </div></div>Something to look into and "recommending it" are totally different ideas. One is exploratory and one has its mind made up.

eg8r

eg8r
04-08-2012, 05:03 PM
I pay into it every week and my wife is employed in that industry. LOL, sorry idiot you lose.

eg8r

Qtec
04-09-2012, 04:35 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Something to<u> look into and "recommending it" </u>are totally different ideas</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"How do we solve the problem of illegal immigrants? Hitler had a plan to get rid of unwanted parts of the population. He called it "the Final Solution". Maybe the States should look at that and consider it."
</div></div>

Does the above quote say that the "the Final Solution" is something worth looking into or something to be totally discarded? You never answered.


"There is a study that seat belts reduce fatalities in a crash"

Is that a statement that favours the wearing of seal belts or not?

Q.....your logic and reading comprehension are really very poor. Its because you hear Rush or Boortz and instantaneously you say, "Hey, that's the crap I believe. It must be true!"


"I don't need any more info. I don't want to watch the video. I believe and that's it."

Way to go Big Guy.

Q

eg8r
04-09-2012, 08:52 AM
LOL, it is plain to see that you don't comprehend the english language as well as you thought. You were misusing the word "tout" and then you could not even understand what Romney was doing. This is clearly a comprehension problem on your end or a lack of experience, or both all wrapped into one.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
04-09-2012, 07:45 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">'Touting' may not be entirely correct, but try 'brought up with an approving mention.' About the same thing.
</div></div>Wow, the guy with the big thesaurus is starting to throw definitions out the window to suit his position.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Surely, he didn't bring it up because he was NOT recommending it, at least as something to look into </div></div>Something to look into and "recommending it" are totally different ideas. One is exploratory and one has its mind made up.

eg8r </div></div>

I know many, many words, and I don't use a thesaurus.

Headline writers often use shorthand, sometimes skewing the meaning, other times capturing the meaning quite well.

In this case, Romney's meaning was well captured, in my view, despite the word 'tout' not having being used.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">tout
verb
1. (Informal) recommend, promote, endorse, support, tip, urge, approve, praise, commend, big up (slang, chiefly Caribbean), speak well of the advertising practice of using performers to tout products
2. (Informal) praise, tip, promote, urge, endorse, big up </div></div>

Recommend, promote, endorse, support, commend?

That's what he did. He did not mention it in a neutral way, nor did he mention that Americans get it free in a neutral way.

He COMPLAINED ABOUT or CRITICIZED or INVIDIOUSLY MENTIONED the supposed (but not factual) American way under insurance (where actually most procedures and services carry co-pays at an 80/20 split to the insured), and offered the example of the foreign treatment as preferable.

Quite obviously, in fact, if you consider the context of a man running for president discussing policy matters.

eg8r
04-09-2012, 09:15 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Recommend, promote, endorse, support, commend?

That's what he did.</div></div>He absolutely came no where close.

eg8r

Qtec
04-10-2012, 01:10 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Recommend, promote, endorse, support, commend?

That's what he did.</div></div>He absolutely came no where close.

eg8r </div></div>

Lets say you are going on vacation and you need someone to water the plants, pick up the mail and keep an eye out.
You ask Mitt if he knows someone who can do it. He says 'I know a guy, maybe you should consider him." and gives you his number.

You take him on, give him the keys and when you come back from vacation, your house is empty!

You call Mitt and he says, "I only said you should consider him, I never recommended him! To tell you the truth I don't trust the guy."......??????????????

The simple fact is that when someone says,
'you should consider this..' ..it means they like it, agree with it or think there is something positive about it, not negative.




Q

eg8r
04-10-2012, 08:02 AM
Keep your head in the sand and believe what ever it is you want.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
04-11-2012, 08:40 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He is not touting the system or the idea at all. What<u> he is saying is that it is worth looking at.</u> </div></div>

Isn't that the same?
He's not saying that is should be considered 'because he is totally against it!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Romney might like the idea </div></div>

Obviously, otherwise he would NEVER have mentioned it, several times!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All he is saying is that it must be evaluated. </div></div>

Yes because he thinks its a good idea.

Q </div></div>

Touting is the correct word, because that is precisely what Mitsy was doing, he was touting it.

Either that, or gee, Mitsy must have been wearing too tight magic panties. Those too tight magic panties do it to him every time.

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