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View Full Version : CIA-- US drops to 50th in life expectancy



DiabloViejo
04-16-2012, 07:33 PM
From the liberal commie scum at the CIA-Factbook:
CIA Factbook Life Expectancy Rank / Order (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html)

cushioncrawler
04-16-2012, 09:35 PM
Why wait to go to heaven.
mac.

The good news iz that mutant kathlix might soon outliv their parents.

Gayle in MD
04-17-2012, 06:36 AM
These are the kind of facts that the right cannot comprehend.

A direct result of the current oligarchy created by the Republicans. Corporations have taken over our country, and it's killing all of us in manny, many ways.

If they continue to have their way, only the priveledged crooks like Romney, who can't begin to relate to what others who weren't born to multi-millionaire Daddy's, and must face as they work to try to advance in our society, will have access to health care at all.


If the voters from the right could only draw the connecting dots between all of their whining about the Government not working, and understand the reason why it doesn't work is connected to how Republicans, and their beloved corporations, and their beloved wealthy CEO's are behind everything that is hurting our country, then we could make some changes that would save our country, and our people.

Wars are launched to benefit their War Profiteering cronies, and now they have things set up so that they can be assured that their children won't have to fight in them.

It's worse now than ever, since the Bush/Cheney Fiasco, and the RW Radical, Activist Supreme Court Bush/Bush created, which arranged for corporations to run this country, buy our representatives, behind the scenes, corrupt our elections, not only buying our representatives to skew the laws in their financial favor, but now, there is no limit to how they can use their money to corrupt our elections.

If Romney wins, they will have a free hand to pollute our country, ignore the threats of global warming, no check on how they contaminate our food, air and water, and if they block the health care act, they will allow again that health Insurance Companies can go back to dropping the ill, refusing coverage for some, altogether, and the Conservatives will remove our social safety programs altogether, since that is all you hear the right yapping about, removing any assistance for the old, the ill, the poor, and the Middle Clase.

Without the Affordable Health Care Act, and middle class women's access to abortion, birth control, health assistance when they are slding economically, and laws to insure that women cannot be discriminated agains in the work force, there will be no hope for our country, at tall. Repubs will remove all oversight of businesses, and all programs that help to protect our citizens, will end.

The result will more chemicals killing all of us, no recourse when some quavck kills us on the operating table, and if the Republicans get their way, there will be no oversight of unconscionable greedy corporate destruction of our ecology and our health.

If Mitt Romney gets in there, and Republicans maintain the majority in the house, the Middle Class and the poor, the ill, the old and the unemployed, will be thrown over the cliff, and government will provide no oversight at all to protect our food and water, or invest in educational opportunities for the country, and the future of our kids and grand kids.

They are out there yapping about the Affordable Care Act being unconstitutional, even though the most respected conservative constitutional experts, say otherwise.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/16...ml?ref=politics (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/16/supreme-court-health-care-henry-paul-monaghan_n_1429228.html?ref=politics)

The damage that Bush prosecuted against this country between his tax cuts, wars, spending, borrowing, and his Supreme Court Appointments, has got to be the greatest damage and destruction that any president has ever prosecuted against America.

Cheney should be HUNG!

G.

eg8r
04-17-2012, 07:59 AM
Pretty crazy seeing life expectancy in Bosnia above those in the US.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
04-17-2012, 02:39 PM
Sure, but we have the best health care system in the world, they claim. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Except for the 49 other countries with greater longevity, perhaps. Well, close enough then!

cushioncrawler
04-17-2012, 04:17 PM
But what of the future. Will usofa longevity bekum shorter -- shortgevity.
BigFood will take over from BigTobacco.
But it aint just kathlix and the NRA and the GOP etc.
The biggest Satan in the usofa iz the AMA. Shortgevity iz alive and healthy.
mac.

Nearly forgot about Krappynomicysts.

DiabloViejo
04-18-2012, 12:50 AM
Yeah it is crazy and what's even worse is we are 41st in infant mortality rate. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/story/2011-10-03/infant-mortality-ranking-US-41st/50647658/1) We are # 28 in upward mobility (the "American Dream"). And # 1 in the number of people we have in jail per capita.

Gayle in MD
04-18-2012, 01:59 AM
And more guns in our country, than people!

Oh, they are taking us back alright!

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

LWW
04-18-2012, 04:23 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sure, but we have the best health care system in the world, they claim. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Except for the 49 other countries with greater longevity, perhaps. Well, close enough then! </div></div>

So diet and lifestyle have no impact on life expectancy?

Leftists believe the silliest things.

LWW
04-18-2012, 04:26 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DiabloViejo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We are # 28 in upward mobility (the "American Dream"). And # 1 in the number of people we have in jail per capita.

</div></div>

And yet you cheer for the advancement of the fascist police state.

eg8r
04-18-2012, 08:55 AM
Why do you jump to healthcare? A quick giggle? Sure you got it, albeit provided by yourself, so we see you are able to entertain yourself. Why do you offer only that talking point? Again, attempt to amuse yourself?

eg8r

Soflasnapper
04-18-2012, 09:47 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sure, but we have the best health care system in the world, they claim. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Except for the 49 other countries with greater longevity, perhaps. Well, close enough then! </div></div>

So diet and lifestyle have no impact on life expectancy?

Leftists believe the silliest things. </div></div>

It's true that many factors play into the longevity figures. It's also true that we used to do much better on that measure, with presumably our same lifestyle.

Here's some discussion on some factors. We have far greater infant mortality rates than any other advanced industrialized country, and that reduces average life expectancy. Some lifestyle issues there, but also, and most critically, lack of access to affordable pre-natal care is implicated. Then for adults, we have the 20,000 to 40,000 dead annually from lack of access to affordable healthcare. That's actually lower than the far greater number KILLED IN OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, while getting that health care, which is among the largest preventible causes of death, amounting to some 120,000 or more dead a year. For the last in this discussion list, the 2nd leading cause of death among younger people is suicide (after accidents). That stat involves again the lack of access to affordable mental health care, plus the soul-killing nature of our materialist society.

Considering that our health care outcomes standings v. the world are about what our educational standing is, do you likewise seek to minimize its poor results by blaming the population and their habits, or actually realize maybe we are not doing such a great job there?

eg8r
04-18-2012, 10:10 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">, the 2nd leading cause of death among younger people is suicide (after accidents). That stat involves again the lack of access to affordable mental health care</div></div>I am interested in seeing the stats on youth who sought mental healthcare and were left standing on the outside due to access.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">do you likewise seek to minimize its poor results by blaming the population and their habits, or actually realize maybe we are not doing such a great job there?</div></div>Absolutely I would consider the fall of our education on the population and their habits. Our fall in world rankings is not due to the fact that we stayed the status quo and all the other nations blew by us. My firm belief is that we fell because the parenting side of the child's education has been tossed to the streets.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
04-18-2012, 02:54 PM
I am interested in seeing the stats on youth who sought mental healthcare and were left standing on the outside due to access.

Such is the stigma of mental health problems, and they are so little covered in typical health care plans or insurance, and then quite limited in time frame, that youth stats are probably unavailable.

However, take rehab as a stand in (probably a reasonable one, as it's likely that drug abuse and suicides go hand in hand).

The only way to immediately get into rehab, absent the ability to write a mid-5-figure check, is to get sentenced there by the court system.

eg8r
04-19-2012, 07:27 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Such is the stigma of mental health problems, and they are so little covered in typical health care plans or insurance, and then quite limited in time frame, that youth stats are probably unavailable.
</div></div>I guess then making statements you can't back up is probably not in your best interest. Since there is no way to know you are merely guessing that it is an "access" issue at all. How many kids that decide to kill themselves are seeking a doctor or shrink? I am sure the percentage is quite low.

eg8r

LWW
04-19-2012, 08:03 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why do you jump to healthcare? A quick giggle? Sure you got it, albeit provided by yourself, so we see you are able to entertain yourself. Why do you offer only that talking point? Again, attempt to amuse yourself?

eg8r </div></div>

Because that's what he's been told his "OPINION" is.

LWW
04-19-2012, 08:06 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the last in this discussion list, the 2nd leading cause of death among younger people is suicide (after accidents). That stat involves again the lack of access to affordable mental health care, plus the soul-killing nature of our materialist society.</div></div>

Actually it is far more likely to be the result of affordable access to drugs and alcohol in combo with families that are either single parent ... due to the state enforcing itself as "DADDY" to so many single moms ... or households where both must work to pay sufficient taxes to satisfy your beloved state.

LWW
04-19-2012, 08:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have far greater infant mortality rates than any other advanced industrialized country, and that reduces average life expectancy. Some lifestyle issues there, but also, and most critically, lack of access to affordable pre-natal care is implicated.</div></div>

Seriously?

Why do you never ask why this problem exists?

What's that? Because it exposes your murderous, yet beloved, state for what it is.

The infant mortality epidemic is a direct result of the drug and alcohol epidemics ... which are a direct result of the welfare state.

Pre natal care is readily available for addicts ... they just won't prioritize things to where their kids rate ahead of their nect buzz.

LWW
04-19-2012, 08:15 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Such is the stigma of mental health problems, and they are so little covered in typical health care plans or insurance, and then quite limited in time frame, that youth stats are probably unavailable.
</div></div>I guess then making statements you can't back up is probably not in your best interest. Since there is no way to know you are merely guessing that it is an "access" issue at all. How many kids that decide to kill themselves are seeking a doctor or shrink? I am sure the percentage is quite low.

eg8r </div></div>

What difference would that make to a statist?

Holding the individual responsible is not an acceptable ideology.

Blaming all evil on America is.

Soflasnapper
04-19-2012, 03:14 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have far greater infant mortality rates than any other advanced industrialized country, and that reduces average life expectancy. Some lifestyle issues there, but also, and most critically, lack of access to affordable pre-natal care is implicated.</div></div>

Seriously?

Why do you never ask why this problem exists?

What's that? Because it exposes your murderous, yet beloved, state for what it is.

The infant mortality epidemic is a direct result of the drug and alcohol epidemics ... which are a direct result of the welfare state.

Pre natal care is readily available for addicts ... they just won't prioritize things to where their kids rate ahead of their nect buzz. </div></div>

Can't catch my admission of that ('lifestyle issues there')? I understand because you've proven beyond doubt that you cannot read.

The infant mortality epidemic is a direct result of the drug and alcohol epidemics ... which are a direct result of the welfare state.

Those are the direct result of the availability of so-easily abused drugs. Cigarettes, alcohol and narcotics were problems of society well before any kind of welfare state, just as the heavily drinking population showed FAS and other social problems enough to gain Prohibition's passing, quite before SS or any large scale welfare programs.

Hilariously wrong.

Pre-natal care is readily available WHERE, and at WHAT COST, for either addicts or the poor?

cushioncrawler
04-19-2012, 04:17 PM
I thort that the figure woz 900,000 deaths due to bad medicine and bad doctors and bad hozzys. Duzzenmadder.

Its like this. The AMA iz a front for bigbizness. Bigbizness gets big money from big faktrys.
Big faktrys make processed food. Heat. Hydrogenation. Transfats. Polyunsaturated fats.
The AMA and bigbizness make baby food.
When babys in the usofa grow up they hav.....

Schizophrenia.
Depression.
Autizm.
Cancer.
Heart disease.
Diabetes.
Obesity.

What the usofa needs iz mother's milk. Natural fats. Natural nuts.
mac.

Did i mention codliveroil.

Soflasnapper
04-19-2012, 05:00 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Such is the stigma of mental health problems, and they are so little covered in typical health care plans or insurance, and then quite limited in time frame, that youth stats are probably unavailable.
</div></div>I guess then making statements you can't back up is probably not in your best interest. Since there is no way to know you are merely guessing that it is an "access" issue at all. How many kids that decide to kill themselves are seeking a doctor or shrink? I am sure the percentage is quite low.

eg8r </div></div>

Common sense shouldn't need much backup, if you're capable of thought. No, I didn't have an immediate reference, but here (http://www.state.nj.us/dcf/behavioral/prevention/preventionplan.pdf) you go. You'll find many of the things I stated word for word. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif

I didn't learn what I know from the Internet, so I'm not always aware of where that might be found.

LWW
04-19-2012, 06:53 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pre-natal care is readily available WHERE, and at WHAT COST, for either addicts or the poor? </div></div>

At the nearestvpediatrician's office and at no cost to the addict.

If you are an unemployed addict, as most all are, not only are you elogible for MEDICAID ... But also for a free ride to college.

DiabloViejo
04-19-2012, 10:24 PM
You just can't stop lying can you? Where do you come up with this idiocy?

Some states provide Medicaid coverage <u>for drug and alcohol recovery treatment</u> and many don't. No one can just waltz into a doctors's office and just say "I'm a drug addict" and instantly qualify for Medicaid. Nor are there any federal programs that provide free college for substance abusers.

Oh, and Social Security disability / Medicare, do not cover disability bought on by drug abuse..look it up.

I challenge you to put up or shut up..show us the proof of your claims (and by proof, I don't mean something from some psycho right wing blog).

eg8r
04-20-2012, 09:41 AM
So which page are you referring to that states word for word what you said? I am interested in seeing the documentation that backs up the statements.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
04-20-2012, 01:55 PM
I'm pretty sure that they passed a law forbidding any college aid to anyone convicted on drug charges.

Soflasnapper
04-20-2012, 02:12 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So which page are you referring to that states word for word what you said? I am interested in seeing the documentation that backs up the statements.

eg8r </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> New Jersey’s Youth Suicide Prevention Plan
In 2001, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services released a report entitled, “National
Strategy for Suicide Prevention: Goals and Objectives for Action.” This report described suicide
as a serious public health problem throughout the United States, and introduced a blueprint for
addressing suicide prevention. The Surgeon General also recommended that each state adopt a
youth suicide prevention plan that would incorporate the national recommendations. (p. 4)</div></div>

NJ has done one of the better efforts in this regard, reducing suicide to only the 4th leading cause of death of youths.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The quality of surveillance data on completed suicides is relatively high in New Jersey due to our
state’s participation in the CDC-funded National Violent Death Reporting System. The New
Jersey Violent Death Reporting System (NJVDRS) is a detailed surveillance system of all
violent fatalities, which integrates medical examiner, death certificate, and law enforcement data
to provide accurate and timely data on all suicides. Additionally, the NJVDRS provides detailed
information about suicide circumstances, and how they differ for adolescents as compared with
those in other age groups. Despite this, death certificates sometimes fail to correctly identify
suicides as the cause of the death. Information on completed suicides is obtained from the New
Jersey Department of Health and Senior Services, Vital Records, as coded by medical examiners
on death certificates. A problem arises in those ambiguous youth deaths where suicide is
suspected, but no clear evidence is available to make a definitive statement of this specific cause.
In those cases, the medical examiners will enter another code based on secondary circumstances
surrounding the death (e.g., substance abuse, motor vehicle accident, undetermined,
unintentional). This problem leads to potential under-reporting of youth suicide.

Data on suicide attempts or ideation are lacking and are similarly affected by some of the same
surveillance challenges noted above. These data are expected to be collected by mental health
providers, screening centers, and emergency room personnel. But there are gaps in how these
data are collected and made available for further review by prevention initiatives. (p. 6)</div></div>

So, accurate data is hard to get, many suicides are not even scored as suicides esp. in ambiguous situations, and better accuracy requires more stringent efforts.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> As adolescents age, their rate of reporting suicidal plans and attempts declines,
while the rate of actual attempts increases. This is a serious problem as a 2009 nationwide
survey of youth in grades 9-12 in public and private schools in the United States (U.S.) found
that 13.8 % of students reported seriously considering suicide, 10.9 % reported creating a plan,
and 6.3 % reported trying to take their own life in the 12 months preceding the survey (CDC
Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance). (p. 6 again)</div></div>

This shows the documentation used is state of the art research from the competent bodies in charge of finding this data, e.g., for this study, the CDC.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Harris and Barraclough, 1997, found that sixty to ninety percent of all suicidal behaviors are
associated with some form of mental illness and/or substance use disorder (National Strategy for
Suicide Prevention). The negative stigma of mental illness and substance abuse prevents many
children, youth and young adults from seeking assistance and has contributed to the silence and
shame associated with mental health problems and suicide. Family members of those surviving
a suicide attempt often hide the behavior from those that could help or provide support, believing
that it reflects badly on their own relationship with the suicide attempter or that attempting
suicide is shameful or sinful (National Strategy for Suicide Prevention). (p. 8)</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are many different settings where trained personnel can intervene with youth at-risk for
self-injury or suicide. Pirkis & Burgess, 1998, found that approximately 45 percent of all
individuals who die by suicide have had some contact with a mental health professional within
the year of their death (National Strategy for Suicide Prevention). (p. 10)</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For every youth who completes suicide there are many others who have made non-lethal
attempts. Professionals in the health and mental health/substance abuse fields, clergy, education,
and law enforcement are involved in the identification and referral of people at–risk for suicide.
Service referrals should be made to programs evidencing high quality services , best practices
and evidence based treatments when possible and appropriate. The quality of treatment for atrisk
youth will be improved by the identification and implementation of these effective clinical
practices. It is essential that all referral sources know how and where to locate providers whose
practices are evidence based and reliant upon best practices. It is necessary that individuals at
risk for suicide are engaged in prompt and effective treatment.

[...] Youth with untreated mental health and substance abuse problems are at high risk for suicide;
therefore, access to high quality mental health and substance abuse services is critical. Barriers
to access should be reduced and linkages among various community agencies, mental health, and
substance abuse treatment programs need to be enhanced. Where possible, services should be
integrated and coordinated to avoid conflicting policies from potential funding sources. (p. 11) </div></div>

All references to cited publications are given on page 14.

cushioncrawler
04-20-2012, 04:59 PM
I thort that the figure woz 900,000 deaths due to bad medicine and bad doctors and bad hozzys. Duzzenmadder.

cushioncrawler
04-20-2012, 05:01 PM
The JOURNAL of the AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION (JAMA) Vol 284, No 4, July 26th 2000 article written by Dr Barbara Starfield, MD, MPH, of the Johns Hopkins School of Hygiene and Public Health, shows that medical errors may be the third leading cause of death in the United States.

The report apparently shows there are 2,000 deaths/year from unnecessary surgery; 7000 deaths/year from medication errors in hospitals; 20,000 deaths/year from other errors in hospitals; 80,000 deaths/year from infections in hospitals; 106,000 deaths/year from non-error, adverse effects of medications - these total up to 225,000 deaths per year in the US from iatrogenic causes which ranks these deaths as the # 3 killer. Iatrogenic is a term used when a patient dies as a direct result of treatments by a physician, whether it is from misdiagnosis of the ailment or from adverse drug reactions used to treat the illness. (drug reactions are the most common cause).

cushioncrawler
04-20-2012, 05:01 PM
Based on the findings of one major study, medical errors kill some 44,000 people in U.S. hospitals each year. Another study puts the number much higher, at 98,000. Even using the lower estimate, more people die from medical mistakes each year than from highway accidents, breast cancer, or AIDS. And deaths from medication errors that take place both in and out of hospitals are aid to be more than 7,000 annually.

cushioncrawler
04-20-2012, 05:01 PM
According to information we have received, a statistical study of hospital deaths in the U.S. conducted at the University of Toronto revealed that pharmaceutical drugs kill more people every year than are killed in traffic accidents.

The study is said to show that more than two million American hospitalized patients suffered a serious adverse drug reaction (ADR) within the 12-month period of the study and, of these, over 100,000 died as a result. The researchers found that over 75 per cent of these ADRs were dose-dependent, which suggests they were due to the inherent toxicity of the drugs rather than to allergic reactions.

The data did not include fatal reactions caused by accidental overdoses or errors in administration of the drugs. If these had been included, it is estimated that another 100,000 deaths would be added to the total every year.

The researchers concluded that ADRs are now the fourth leading cause of death in the United States after heart disease, cancer, and stroke.

cushioncrawler
04-20-2012, 05:02 PM
An article by Dennis Cauchon, the USA TODAY Newspaper Sept. 25, 2000

According to a USA Today study, more than half of the experts hired to advise the government on the safety and effectiveness of medicine have financial relationships with the pharmaceutical companies that will be helped or hurt by their decisions. These experts are hired to advise the Food and Drug Administration on which medicines should be approved for sale, what the warning labels should say and how studies of drugs should be designed. The experts are supposed to be independent, but USA TODAY found that 54% of the time, they have a direct financial interest in the drug or topic they are asked to evaluate. These conflicts include helping a pharmaceutical company develop a medicine, then serving on an FDA advisory committee that judges the drug.

The conflicts typically include stock ownership, consulting fees or research grants.

Federal law generally prohibits the FDA from using experts with financial conflicts of interest, but according to the article, the FDA has waived the restriction more than 800 times since 1998.

These pharmaceutical experts, about 300 on 18 advisory committees, make decisions that affect the health of millions of Americans and billions of dollars in drugs sales. With few exceptions, the FDA follows the committees' advice.

The FDA reveals when financial conflicts exist, but it has kept details secret since 1992, so it is not possible to determine the amount of money or the drug company involved.

A USA Today analysis of financial conflicts at 159 FDA advisory committee meetings from Jan. 1, 1998, through last June 30 found:

At 92% of the meetings, at least one member had a financial conflict of interest.

At 55% of meetings, half or more of the FDA advisers had conflicts of interest.

Conflicts were most frequent at the 57 meetings when broader issues were discussed: 92% of members had conflicts.

At the 102 meetings dealing with the fate of a specific drug, 33% of the experts had a financial conflict.

"The best experts for the FDA are often the best experts to consult with industry," says FDA senior associate commissioner Linda Suydam, who is in charge of waiving conflict-of-interest restrictions. But Larry Sasich of Public Citizen, an advocacy group, says, "The industry has more influence on the process than people realize."

cushioncrawler
04-20-2012, 05:03 PM
In the book Alternative Medicine Definitive Guide to Cancer, they discuss "How Cancer Politics Have Kept You In the Dark" - Chapter 26. They talk about one study that disclosed that almost 50% of high-ranking FDA officials had been employed by major drug companies immediately before joining the FDA and that half of these officials upon leaving the FDA take up executive jobs in pharmaceutical companies.

Another study that they discuss was printed in the Wall Street Journal in 1992. It revealed that 60% of drug advertisements in medical journals actually violated FDA guidelines, yet the FDA did nothing about those violations.

Yet, in 1985, the FDA teamed up with the Pharmaceutical Advertising Council to use drug industry funds to combat "quackery" in medicine - alternative medicine.

cushioncrawler
04-20-2012, 05:04 PM
This article written by Andrea Knox for Knight Ridder Newspapers appeared on January 7, 2001 in "The Star," a Ventura County Newspaper.

In the article, it is reported that in the past four years, 10 prescription drugs and a vaccine have been taken off the market after killing and injuring thousands. According to the article, it is estimated that US drug fatalities runs 100,000 a year. There is no way of confirming the numbers because there is no reliable way to track and investigate problems with drugs. Doctors are not even required to report bad drug interactions.

It also doesn't help that the FDA has cut the time for routine drug approvals, making the real-life test for drugs coming after it has actually been approved. Without a proper monitoring system, it takes longer to discover what drugs could be causing problems.
Number of physicians in the U.S..........................................700,0 00
Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year................120,000

This information was sent to us indicating that it came from the Benton County News Tribune on the seventeenth of November, 1999

cushioncrawler
04-20-2012, 05:06 PM
Four commercial jets crashed that day. But what if six jumbo jets crashed every day in the United States, claiming the lives of 783,936 people every year? That would certainly qualify as a massive tragedy, wouldn't it?

Well, forget "what if." The tragedy is happening right now. Over 750,000 people actually do die in the United States every year, although not from plane crashes. They die from something far more common and rarely perceived by the public as dangerous: modern medicine.

According to the groundbreaking 2003 medical report Death by Medicine, by Drs. Gary Null, Carolyn Dean, Martin Feldman, Debora Rasio and Dorothy Smith, 783,936 people in the United States die every year from conventional medicine mistakes. That's the equivalent of six jumbo jet crashes a day for an entire year. But where is the media attention for this tragedy? Where is the government support for stopping these medical mistakes before they happen?
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/009278.html#ixzz1scnhFGyz

cushioncrawler
04-20-2012, 05:09 PM
Death by Medicine By Gary Null, PhD; Carolyn Dean MD, ND; Martin Feldman, MD; Debora Rasio, MD; and Dorothy Smith, PhD
Something is wrong when regulatory agencies pretend that vitamins are dangerous, yet ignore published statistics showing that government-sanctioned medicine is the real hazard.
Until now, Life Extension could cite only isolated statistics to make its case about the dangers of conventional medicine. No one had ever analyzed and combined ALL of the published literature dealing with injuries and deaths caused by government-protected medicine. That has now changed.
A group of researchers meticulously reviewed the statistical evidence and their findings are absolutely shocking.4 These researchers have authored a paper titled “Death by Medicine” that presents compelling evidence that today’s system frequently causes more harm than good.
This fully referenced report shows the number of people having in-hospital, adverse reactions to prescribed drugs to be 2.2 million per year. The number of unnecessary antibiotics prescribed annually for viral infections is 20 million per year. The number of unnecessary medical and surgical procedures performed annually is 7.5 million per year. The number of people exposed to unnecessary hospitalization annually is 8.9 million per year.
The most stunning statistic, however, is that the total number of deaths caused by conventional medicine is an astounding 783,936 per year. It is now evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the US. (By contrast, the number of deaths attributable to heart disease in 2001 was 699,697, while the number of deaths attributable to cancer was 553,251.5)
We had intended to publish the entire text of “Death By Medicine” in this month’s issue. The article uncovered so many problems with conventional medicine however, that it became too long to fit within these pages. We have instead put it on our website (www.lef.org).
We placed this article on our website to memorialize the failure of the American medical system. By exposing these gruesome statistics in painstaking detail, we provide a basis for competent and compassionate medical professionals to recognize the inadequacies of today’s system and at least attempt to institute meaningful reforms.
Natural medicine is under siege, as pharmaceutical company lobbyists urge lawmakers to deprive Americans of the benefits of dietary supplements. Drug-company front groups have launched slanderous media campaigns to discredit the value of healthy lifestyles. The FDA continues to interfere with those who offer natural products that compete with prescription drugs.
These attacks against natural medicine obscure a lethal problem that until now was buried in thousands of pages of scientific text. In response to these baseless challenges to natural medicine, the Nutrition Institute of America commissioned an independent review of the quality of “government-approved” medicine. The startling findings from this meticulous study indicate that conventional medicine is “the leading cause of death” in the United States .
The Nutrition Institute of America is a nonprofit organization that has sponsored independent research for the past 30 years. To support its bold claim that conventional medicine is America 's number-one killer, the Nutritional Institute of America mandated that every “count” in this “indictment” of US medicine be validated by published, peer-reviewed scientific studies.
What you are about to read is a stunning compilation of facts that documents that those who seek to abolish consumer access to natural therapies are misleading the public. Over 700,000 Americans die each year at the hands of government-sanctioned medicine, while the FDA and other government agencies pretend to protect the public by harassing those who offer safe alternatives.
A definitive review of medical peer-reviewed journals and government health statistics shows that American medicine frequently causes more harm than good.

cushioncrawler
04-20-2012, 05:20 PM
Adverse Drug Reactions ..... 106,000 .... $12 billion Lazarou(1), Suh (49)
Medical error ................... 98,000 ..... $2 billion IOM(6)
Bedsores ...................... 115,000 .... $55 billion Xakellis(7), Barczak (8)
Infection ....................... 88,000 ...... $5 billion Weinstein(9), MMWR (10)
Malnutrition .................. 108,800 ----------- Nurses Coalition(11)
Outpatients ................... 199,000 .... $77 billion Starfield(12), Weingart(112)
Unnecessary Procedures ....... 37,136 .. $122 billion HCUP(3,13)
Surgery-Related ................ 32,000 ......$9 billion AHRQ(85)
Total ......................... 783,936 ..... $282 billion

cushioncrawler
04-20-2012, 05:28 PM
The enumerating of unnecessary medical events is very important in our analysis. Any invasive, unnecessary medical procedure must be considered as part of the larger iatrogenic picture. Unfortunately, cause and effect go unmonitored. The figures on unnecessary events represent people who are thrust into a dangerous health care system. Each of these 16.4 million lives is being affected in ways that could have fatal consequences. Simply entering a hospital could result in the following:

�� In 16.4 million people, a 2.1% chance (affecting 186,000) of a serious adverse drug reaction(1)
�� In 16.4 million people, a 5-6% chance (affecting 489,500) of acquiring a nosocomial infection(9)
�� In16.4 million people, a 4-36% chance (affecting 1.78 million) of having an iatrogenic injury (medical error and adverse drug reactions).(16)
�� In 16.4 million people, a 17% chance (affecting 1.3 million) of a procedure error.(40)
These statistics represent a one-year time span. Working with the most conservative figures from our statistics, we project the following 10-year death rates.

cushioncrawler
04-20-2012, 05:32 PM
These statistics represent a one-year time span. Working with the most conservative figures from our statistics, we project the following 10-year death rates.
Table 3: Estimated 10-Year Death Rates from Medical Intervention
Condition 10-Year Deaths Author
Adverse Drug Reaction 1.06 million (1)
Medical error 0.98 million (6)
Bedsores 1.15 million (7,8)
Nosocomial Infection 0.88 million (9,10)
Malnutrition 1.09 million (11)
Outpatients 1.99 million (12, 112)
Unnecessary Procedures 371,360 (3,13)
Surgery-related 320,000 (85)
Total 7,841,360

Our estimated 10-year total of 7.8 million iatrogenic deaths is more than all the casualties from all the wars fought by the US throughout its entire history.
Our projected figures for unnecessary medical events occurring over a 10-year period also are dramatic.

Table 4: Estimated 10-Year
Unnecessary Medical Events Unnecessary Events 10-year Number
Iatrogenic Events Hospitalization 89 million(4) 17 million
Procedures 75 million(3) 15 million
Total 164 million

These figures show that an estimated 164 million people—more than half of the total US population—receive unneeded medical treatment over the course of a decade.

cushioncrawler
04-20-2012, 05:35 PM
As few as 5% and no more than 20% of iatrogenic acts are ever reported.(16,24,25,33,34) This implies that if medical errors were completely and accurately reported, we would have an annual iatrogenic death toll much higher than 783,936.

cushioncrawler
04-20-2012, 05:36 PM
Angell left the New England Journal in June 2000. In June 2002, the New England Journal of Medicine announced that it would accept journalists who accept money from drug companies because it was too difficult to find ones who have no ties. Another former editor of the journal, Dr. Jerome Kassirer, said that was not the case and that plenty of researchers are available who do not work for drug companies.(21) According to an ABC news report, pharmaceutical companies spend over $2 billion a year on over 314,000 events attended by doctors.
The ABC news report also noted that a survey of clinical trials revealed that when a drug company funds a study, there is a 90% chance that the drug will be perceived as effective whereas a non-drug-company-funded study will show favorable results only 50% of the time. It appears that money can't buy you love but it can buy any "scientific" result desired.
Cynthia Crossen, a staffer for the Wall Street Journal, i n 1996 published Tainted Truth : The Manipulation of Fact in America , a book about the widespread practice of lying with statistics.(22) Commenting on the state of scientific research, she wrote: “The road to hell was paved with the flood of corporate research dollars that eagerly filled gaps left by slashed government research funding.” Her data on financial involvement showed that in l981 the drug industry “gave” $292 million to colleges and universities for research. By l991, this figure had risen to $2.1 billion.

cushioncrawler
04-20-2012, 05:46 PM
HAV I EVER MENTIONED USA BIGFOOD BIZNESS = SCHIZOPHRENIA AUTIZM DEPRESSION SUICIDE ETC ETC.
U want truth -- u karnt handle the truth.
mac.

eg8r
04-21-2012, 06:52 PM
So nothing you quote actually supported anything you said. You told us that the youth sought out mental HC and were turned away due to access problems.

eg8r

LWW
04-22-2012, 05:57 AM
And this surprises you?

Soflasnapper
04-22-2012, 01:43 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So nothing you quote actually supported anything you said. You told us that the youth sought out mental HC and were turned away due to access problems.

eg8r </div></div>

45% of those suicides had contact with the mental health care profession within a year of that action. 55%, then, did not have such contact. Considering that these are youths, it is the parents generally who would have to seek that attention for them. They do not, and as the study states, there is an access problem, compounded by the shame component, that needing mental health care services carries a stigma.

eg8r
04-22-2012, 09:05 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">45% of those suicides had contact with the mental health care profession within a year of that action. </div></div>Again, what you are now saying does not support what you said before. You said before that they sought mental HC and were denied access. Now you tell us 45% of the population that did seek this help 100% of them received it (albeit this is NJ only).

So, in yet another post of yours defending your position you have failed to once again prove your original statement. Let me help you...I am looking for evidence of kids being turned away after seeking mental HC help.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
04-23-2012, 04:32 PM
Which I originally said nothing about, which you challenged me to prove as your own semi-related, semi-unrelated point, which is fairly much besides any true point, because a minor child who isn't emancipated cannot engage medical mental health care services on his or her own without parental approval and payment.

Apparently you've made no effort to even explore that this might be taking place. The usual .002 second search results found this one:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Children who are hallucinating, feeling suicidal, or suffering other acute mental health problems are increasingly being turned away from some Massachusetts hospitals’ psychiatric wards, a problem the hospital industry acknowledges and blames on insufficient insurance payments to cover treatment of such sick children.

The troubled children are often kept waiting in emergency rooms, sometimes for days, or sent home until a hospital agrees to admit them.

Dr. JudyAnn Bigby, the state’s health and human services secretary, said yesterday that hospitals licensed to treat mentally ill children must provide that care if they have sufficient staffing and beds, regardless of the reimbursement rates. While the precise number of children affected is unknown, Bigby said her agency has heard a number of complaints recently, prompting it to organize a task force of advocates and providers that will soon begin meeting to assess the scope of the problem and forge solutions.

Troubled children have experienced periodic delays being admitted to psychiatric units in past years, but the cause was usually a shortage of beds. Advocates for mentally ill children say now the problem is different.

“There are plenty of hospital beds,’’ said Lisa Lambert, executive director of the Parent/Professional Advocacy League, a Massachusetts mental health organization that says it has been fielding a lot of calls on the issue from families.

“But now the hospitals are saying the kids are too acute, which is baffling,’’ Lambert said.

Meridith Viano, a Leicester mother, said she was told earlier this month that her 15-year-old son, who was hearing voices and not recognizing members of his own family, was “too acute’’ to be admitted to MetroWest Medical Center in Framingham, the closest hospital licensed to admit children and adolescents with mental health problems.

She had taken him to the emergency room of UMass Memorial Medical Center in Worcester, and he ended up spending two nights in a locked area of the waiting room near the emergency department’s adult mental health section. UMass is not licensed to admit mental health patients younger than 16.

“So for two days he had to hear adults screaming and being detoxed. It was horrible.’’ Viano said. “I was with him and saying, ‘He really needs help.’ ’’

Finally, on the third day, Lambert, the health advocate, said she called the Vianos’ insurance company and was able to speak to the company’s chief executive. Within 20 minutes, the Vianos were told that a bed suddenly opened up for the teen at MetroWest. He was treated there for two weeks and is now back at school. But Viano worries that her son’s two-night experience in the locked waiting room may make him less open to help in the future.

“My biggest fear is suicide, that . . . he will hide [symptoms] and kill himself,’’ she said.Continued...

[...]

Bigby said the state has made progress on the related issue of “stuck kids’’ — children deemed well enough to leave hospital psychiatric units but trapped in them for lack of treatment programs outside. That created a backlog of youths who couldn’t get in to the hospital. But today the number of such patients is down to about 50 from 160 children four years ago, Bigby said, because the state concentrated on finding appropriate outpatient care for them. link (http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2010/10/27/hospitals_turn_away_troubled_youths/)
</div></div>

and this one:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The research suggested a gap in mental health services for young adults. High school students frequently responded that they didn't have a person or a place to help them when they were stressed out, Coy said.

There is an effort under way to get a quarter-cent sales tax for youth mental health services on the ballot this November. It’s the third time the issue has been raised since 1994.

In August, MU’s Harry S Truman School of Public Affairs analyzed surveys from 21 different agencies and found that hundreds of children were turned away or on the waiting list for mental health programs last year, including 357 children turned away from or on the waiting list for counseling and therapy.

The tax would fund services such as temporary shelter for youth, outpatient chemical dependency and psychiatric treatment programs, and professional counseling and therapy. link (http://www.columbiamissourian.com/stories/2012/04/21/challenges-youth-remain-despite-efforts/) </div></div>

or this one:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The American Academy of Pediatrics Task Force on Mental Health found through an extensive review of
literature that screenings can be a valid tool in identifying adolescents with mental health problems, both in a
primary care setting and also a school setting. Most screenings occur in school settings, but more primary
care providers are taking on the role (Richardson, 2009). Schools are increasingly becoming a key target to
address mental health prevention and treatment among adolescents. Research done within the community
of Washington, D.C. found that school‐connected programs for mental health may be essential in order to
adequately address mental health and also academic success among its adolescent population (Price & Lear,
2008). After discovering nearly 7 percent of its adolescent population had a severe mental health condition
but only 1 percent were being served, a grant helped Washington, D.C. create a School Mental Health
Program.
The School Mental Health Program in Washington D.C. aims to maximize the opportunities for students to
become successful in the classroom, offering support to not only the students, but also their families. The
program employs mental health specialists, psychologists and license or license‐eligible social workers that,
among other services, offer prevention services to entire studies bodies, school staff and parents/guardians.
This is done through education workshops for teachers and parents, professional development and either
school‐based or classroom‐based prevention programs (Price & Lear, 2008). The ultimate goal is to provide a
healthy school culture and environment through universal screenings and school‐wide trainings in prevention
programs.

[...]

Conclusion
Through a review of literature, focus group summaries and the online survey, it became apparent that mental
health is a growing concern among adolescents and often linked to other health behaviors, particularly
alcohol and drug use. It is one area in adolescent health where providers and other youth advocates feel
there is a service gap in Columbia/Boone County. Identifying and addressing problems early on is important.
There also seems to be a particular problem with stress. Working with schools and other key stakeholders to
explore ways to provide adolescents opportunities to address emotional problems they may face is essential.
The Affordable Health Care for America Act may provide funding opportunities for Columbia/Boone County
to do just that.

[...]

Appendix D
Focus Group Summaries
Agency Group
• Mental health was the first issue brought up.
o Acknowledgement that mental health can be a side effect of other health issues, and vice
versa.
o “Huge need” for psychiatric care, in part because there don’t seem to be enough services for
mental health.

There’s a concern about not being able to reach as many teens as they would like – school
nurses/counselors are only seeing a handful of students at offices and teachers can only really
impact 1‐4 kids in a given class.

link, from pages 22, 23 (http://www.gocolumbiamo.com/Health/Documents/AdolescentHealthNeedsAssessmentupdated1-1-11.pdf) </div></div>

cushioncrawler
04-23-2012, 04:56 PM
Total spending on medical malpractice, including legal-defense costs and claims payments, was $30.41 billion in 2007, according to an estimate from consulting firm Towers Perrin. That is a significant figure, but it still amounts to a little more than 1% of total U.S. health-care spending, which the federal government estimates at $2.241 trillion for 2007.

Indirect costs that stem in part from medical professionals looking for legal protection play a far larger role in health-care spending, doctors and some analysts say. And they are one reason medical liability is bubbling as an issue as Congress reviews whether to pass a health-care overhaul. Sen. John Kerry, a Democrat, and Sen. Orrin Hatch, a Republican, both said earlier this week that Congress needs to find a way to eliminate frivolous malpractice cases.

"There are significant savings that can be achieved in our health-care systems if we have prudent medical malpractice reform in place," said Sen. Hatch in a statement.

Art Ushijima, president and chief executive of the Queen's Medical Center, based in Honolulu, says legal concerns have become a bigger burden. He recalls that when he first came to the hospital -- Hawaii's largest -- about 20 years ago, there was one staff attorney. Now there are six. Salaries for staff, with the costs to support them, are "well into the seven figures," he says.

At the University of Miami School of Medicine's patient practice, 14 cents out of every dollar collected in fees for services to patients goes toward buying medical malpractice insurance, says William Donelan, the university's vice president for medical administration. That figure doesn't include costs of defensive medicine, which are difficult to quantify, he says. "Our system is really irrational and out of control," he says.

cushioncrawler
04-23-2012, 05:02 PM
Industry Snapshot
The legal service industry is the second largest professional service industry in the nation, second only to health services. At the beginning of the twenty-first century, the industry collected almost $110 billion in annual revenue. The legal services industry employed more than 1.1 million people, with about one-third of the workforce consisting of practicing attorneys.

eg8r
04-23-2012, 06:17 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Which I originally said nothing about, which you challenged me to prove as your own semi-related, semi-unrelated point, which is fairly much besides any true point, because a minor child who isn't emancipated cannot engage medical mental health care services on his or her own without parental approval and payment.</div></div>You try so hard to prove a point only to shoot yourself in the foot with your own research. First you say they don't have access, then you show us in NJ they have access, then you tell us they don't have access again unless mommy and daddy approve. When did parents start controlling the telephone more than the birth control?

eg8r

Soflasnapper
04-23-2012, 07:40 PM
Yes, and both (or all) are true, as the data and reporting show.

Trying to understand a multi-faceted problem like this one may be hard, but let it sit awhile in your head, and maybe it will become more clear.

In NJ, 'they have access'? 45% had some (perhaps as little as one) contact with a mental health professional in the prior YEAR (not sufficient to prevent the successful suicide, in any event)-- whereas 55% did NOT. And that was from '99, referring to access in '98, a time when millions more had health care insurance from their employers than now. What do you think demand and seeking such expensive care has done since such a halcyon economic time, now, into very bad times?

Then, we saw that those actually seeking care were being turned away, even when they had insurance.

Then we saw a community in Missouri that saw such an unmet need that they've been trying for years to get a new funding source to provide such mental health care services more widely in the school system, a place where such screening could actually find and help refer out treatment for youth at risk.

Then we saw the determination that in one locale, 7% were in grave need of such services, but only 1% were receiving them.

From all of this (not sure you read it, seems unlikely), you conclude I am quite wrong. Really?

eg8r
04-23-2012, 09:04 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Pirkis & Burgess, 1998, found that approximately 45 percent of all
individuals who die by suicide have had some contact with a mental health professional within
the year of their death (National Strategy for Suicide Prevention). (p. 10)

</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In NJ, 'they have access'? 45% had some (perhaps as little as one) contact with a mental health professional in the prior YEAR (not sufficient to prevent the successful suicide, in any event)-- whereas 55% did NOT. </div></div>LOL, seriously are you going to tell me that 55% of all suicidal people in NJ are without a telephone? Nothing here states that none of the 55% had access, all it says is that none of the 55% had any contact. In case you did not bother to read the rest of your quotes there is a stigma about mental illness so don't you think a few of those 55% made the choice to not have contact?

LOL, your stance on this is nothing more than you just enjoying a good arguing session without any real intent on being honest. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

eg8r

LWW
04-24-2012, 04:05 AM
He is going to tell you whatever reality he has to fabricate in order to keep his myth plausible in his own mind.

DiabloViejo
04-24-2012, 10:42 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He is going to tell you whatever reality he has to fabricate in order to keep his myth plausible in his own mind. </div></div>

No, no, no, you silly man, that's your style. Take a good look in the mirror, hypocrite.

Soflasnapper
04-24-2012, 01:30 PM
Now you're insulting me and clowning around at the same time.

I always intend to be honest, and in what way does having a telephone get you mental health care (other than making an appointment if you can get one in any short time frame)? You're trying the angels dancing on a pin technique with nonsensical arguments.

Sure, people fail to seek what may be available care because of the stigma (which I myself mentioned before looking for sources, because it is well known). Sure, others fail to seek what may be available because of a lack of money for co-pays or no insurance coverage at all. Sure, others who want mental health care and even have insurance can't get the treatment when they seek it. Sure, professionals in the field have identified huge gaps in access and availability, and have tried to create new services to fill these gaps.

With suicide so high among the young of this country, it's logical that there are problems in all these areas, and there is supportive evidence for all of it. Your position appears to be there is no such problem in any regard in any of these areas. If that's so, why is suicide a top-five or higher cause of death for youth in this country?

You're argumentative for its sake alone, and have not actually stated any position except opposition to my statements of the many problems in this area, which you appear to wholly discount.

eg8r
04-24-2012, 04:01 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Your position appears to be there is no such problem in any regard in any of these areas.</div></div>Swing and a miss. I haven't stated my position, just tried to reduce the impact of your sensationalism around the availability of access as a leading cause for youth suicide. You made a statement you have not been able to back up, plain and simple.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
04-24-2012, 04:24 PM
That stat involves again the lack of access to affordable mental health care, plus the soul-killing nature of our materialist society.

That was my quote, so long ago that you misremember my saying it was the leading cause. I said it involved that issue, and it certainly does. Other factors are involved as well as access issues and affordability issues.

That thing you're chasing, seen only out of the corner of your eye, is your tail, bub.

cushioncrawler
04-24-2012, 05:54 PM
CIA-- US drops to 50th in life expectancy.

One problem iz that theusofa bigbizness haz brort down the life expektancy all over the planet.
Pushing baby milk and baby food and transfats and polyunsaturatedfats etc etc on the whole woild.

So, when everyone wakes up, the usofa will still be 50th.
mac.

Did i mention codliveroil.

eg8r
04-24-2012, 09:44 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That was my quote, so long ago that you misremember my saying it was the leading cause.</div></div>I actually looked at the quote again before posting. There are millions of causes yet you chose to point out that one and really little else. This leads me to believe you think it is a big problem or you are just trying to jump on the HC bandwagon. Either way it was a huge hit and miss.

eg8r

Qtec
04-25-2012, 05:27 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I actually looked at the quote again before posting.</div></div>

LOL. That's a first! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif


Why don't you just enlighten us all with your explanation as to why living in America shortens one's lifespan?

Geez, Israel is in a war zone and people live longer there!!!!!



Q

Gayle in MD
04-25-2012, 10:02 AM
Wasn't it George Bush who weakened his own Father's clean air act?

Here are some good reasons why our health is suffering.

It's just the tip of the ice berg, there is so much more about our filthy food, and filthy water, while Republicans are bitching because we have a president who doesn't push through environmental threats, before the studies are complete!




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/25...html?ref=topbar (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/25/state-of-the-air-2012-american-lung-association_n_1446786.html?ref=topbar)

Soflasnapper
04-25-2012, 10:16 AM
This source (http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/index.cfm?objectid=C7DF98C8-1372-4D20-C8060FB067FA9A90) links to the report which states:

* Suicide is the second leading cause of death among 20- to 24-year olds.

* More teenagers and young adults die from suicide than from all medical illnesses combined.

* The suicide rate peaks among young adults (ages 20 to 24)

* One in 12 US college students makes a suicide plan.

* Clinical depression often first appears in adolescence.

* The vast majority of young adults aged 18 and older who are diagnosed with depression do not receive appropriate or even any treatment at all.

---------------

Now perhaps it is (remotely) possible that despite this last statistic, there is ample and affordable access to mental health care and suicide counseling to adolescents and young adults, that the vast majority of those diagnosed with depression simply do not take advantage of.

However, there is no reason to think that is true, no evidence that you have shown to indicate that is true, and some considerable evidence I have shown to indicate it is false.

eg8r
04-25-2012, 11:52 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now perhaps it is (remotely) possible that despite this last statistic, there is ample and affordable access to mental health care and suicide counseling to adolescents and young adults, that the vast majority of those diagnosed with depression simply do not take advantage of.

However, there is no reason to think that is true, no evidence that you have shown to indicate that is true, and some considerable evidence I have shown to indicate it is false.</div></div>It just takes a bit of common sense. Affordable, heck suicide counseling is free just call the hotline. NJ raves about their success.

eg8r

eg8r
04-25-2012, 11:54 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why don't you just enlighten us all with your explanation as to why living in America shortens one's lifespan?

</div></div>I didn't see much wrong with what cushioncrawler mentioned. LOL, and since you decided to open the hole in your mouth let me revert you back to my first statement in this thread...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pretty crazy seeing life expectancy in Bosnia above those in the US.

</div></div>It is quite clear that I was surprised by this number.

So stupid, what else do you have to say?

eg8r

Soflasnapper
04-25-2012, 01:00 PM
Affordable, heck suicide counseling is free just call the hotline. NJ raves about their success.*

Sure, which is why the rate of suicide is up 50% in the military and veteran populations? (And yet still below the level of comparably aged males in the country?)

Gosh, these stupid people just refuse to call all these free services, and get talked down. (??? It just takes a bit of common sense???)

*Not intended to be a factual statement? Or was it? It's not true by any evidence, although don't let that stop you!

eg8r
04-25-2012, 01:44 PM
LOL, I did not say the call operators were effective, I am just shooting down the lie you continue to perpetuate that the assistance is not available. As far as veteran and military suicides rising, I did not know anythign about it and question why you are jumping demographics out of the blue. I mention the call lines because your own source thought they were part of the states effectiveness at reducing the suicide rate.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
04-25-2012, 02:27 PM
ROFL! My 'lie' that assistance is not available, by which you mean 'suicide hot line operators' which you decline to say are effective?

Yep, watch out for that tail! I'm sure with just a little extra effort, you'll catch it in the end.

PERHAPS the Betty Ford Clinic has plentiful openings, and maybe they're even discounting entrance and treatment fees, but at $50k a pop (whatever), if it's unaffordable, it's not available to an average person, let alone an average youngster.

To repeat an earlier point: * The vast majority of young adults aged 18 and older who are diagnosed with depression do not receive appropriate or even any treatment at all.

But there is plentiful access to help, you say? Oddly irrational, and unsupported by any fact. But not to worry-- carry on.

eg8r
04-26-2012, 09:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ROFL! My 'lie' that assistance is not available, by which you mean 'suicide hot line operators' which you decline to say are effective?

</div></div>I don't need to say if they are effective or not, the state of NJ makes that decision. I am just referring to the site you quoted. They say it is available, it is successful and you disagree saying they are killing themselves because they lack access.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To repeat an earlier point: * The vast majority of young adults aged 18 and older who are diagnosed with depression do not receive appropriate or even any treatment at all.

But there is plentiful access to help, you say? Oddly irrational, and unsupported by any fact. But not to worry-- carry on.

</div></div>To address your earlier point...you said those vast majority did not have access to mental HC now you are changing your position to say they don't receive appropriate or any treatment at all. So they had access and chose not to do anythign with it, probably because of the stigma related around mental sickness rather than actual lack of access. I only state there is plenty of assistance because that is what your source said.

eg8r