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View Full Version : Israel Receives New Dolphin Class Sub.



Sev
05-03-2012, 09:27 AM
I am sure the Iranians will sleep better knowing Israel may have boomers lurking under the water. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.428047.1336055895!/image/4119160385.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_474/4119160385.jpg

<span style='font-size: 23pt'>Israel gets fourth Dolphin-class submarine from Germany</span>
<span style='font-size: 17pt'>Foreign reports claim German vessels provide Israel with 'second strike' capability in case of nuclear attack'; IDF official: Submarine has a 'range for everything.'</span>
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-de...ermany-1.428039 (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-gets-fourth-dolphin-class-submarine-from-germany-1.428039)
Israel gets fourth Dolphin-class submarine from Germany
Foreign reports claim German vessels provide Israel with 'second strike' capability in case of nuclear attack'; IDF official: Submarine has a 'range for everything.'
By Gili Cohen Tags: IDF

Israel received a fourth Dolphin submarine from Germany on Thursday. The new sub, called "Tanin," will be put into operation in 2013.

According to a senior Israel Navy officer, the "submarine has a range for everything," adding that it needs to refuel and charge its batteries only once in a long while.

"This submarine can stay underwater for longer," he added, saying it had both"visible and invisible" abilities and was meant to operate in the Mediterranean.

In a ceremony in Germany attended by senior members of Israel's Defense Ministry and the IDF, including the Defense Ministry director general Udi Shani, Israel Navy commander Ram Rotberg and German authorities. The officials inaugurated the new ship by s a bottle of champagne on it.

The Navy plans to conduct exercises with the submarine, before putting it into operation around mid-2013.

<span style="color: #003300"><span style='font-size: 14pt'>Israel is preparing to receive a fifth and sixth submarine from the Germans in the near future.</span></span>

Israel's Navy has had to contend with a serious rise in challenges on multiple fronts in recent years.

"The challenges today are much wider, and the submarines are one import aspect of this," said the officer. "The Middle East has changed including Egypt and Syria, and Lebanon is the same Lebanon and we must be able to operate in several arenas and on several fronts at the same time."

According to foreign sources, the German submarines are equipped to carry Israel-made cruise missiles with a range of 1,500 kilometers and the ability to carry nuclear warheads.

<span style="color: #003300"><span style='font-size: 14pt'>The same reports claim that the submarines are meant to give Israel "second-strike" abilities in case of a nuclear attack.</span></span>

Soflasnapper
05-03-2012, 10:54 AM
It's not a secret that they already had the others, and for some years by now.

So now they have another one, with a couple more coming down the pike?

You know, their subs' complement of cruise missiles would work for first strike, as well as second strike purposes. A principle reason subs were thought more for second strike than first strike was their relative lack of accuracy (and their hide-away abilities, securing them from pre-emption). In a first strike, targeting communications, control and command, accuracy is very important. But as a deterrent or revenge return strike with nukes, accuracy isn't required so much. I think the cruise missiles are accurate enough for both purposes.

The question for the world is how long Israel will be allowed to remain out of the NNPT regime, or suffer consequences for that position.

It's actually US law, under the Symington amendment, that no US aid is allowed to flow to such a scoff-law country with nukes outside the NNPT regime.

Oh, wait. Israel had never admitted they have nukes. So it cannot be true, and surely, the Symington amendment doesn't apply? And these subs, therefore, are entirely for conventional cruise missiles only? Sure, as an occupied country, we are told we must agree with the overlords.

eg8r
05-03-2012, 11:33 AM
Instead of the dumping everything you think you know about subs into the post why not just address the topic? What is the point in trying to change the topic?

eg8r

Soflasnapper
05-03-2012, 12:12 PM
The topic seemed to be how afraid the Iranians will now be (not sleeping well at night) now that the Israelis have FOUR instead of THREE such subs operational. It's no new capability, and the subtext is their potential for use in a nuclear strike, which the article describes as second strike use.

I point out that there are already the same capability subs in operation by Israel, and that they are probably well suited to first strike, as well as second strike (retaliation and deterrence).

Completely on topic. I forgot to mention these are however not 'boomers,' which are subs that can carry intercontinental ballistic missiles, not just cruise missiles, which are not ballistic missiles, as they travel under power through their flight path.

eg8r
05-03-2012, 01:08 PM
LOL, you wish you were on topic. You were desperately trying to make this an "Israel breaking US laws and not being part of whatever, blah blah blah". You do remember the part where you started with, "The question for the world is, blah blah blah". Completely off topic.

Unlike your self where you flippantly toss out the fact that this is only an additional sub is funny though. I am sure Iran completely forgot this was even happening. Much like this isn't the last one coming either. Now, you mention ICBM's. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif You are desperately trying to make this subject something it is not. Carry on though, I think it amuses you to talk about all the stuff you think you know.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
05-03-2012, 01:55 PM
Your application for head thread policeman and forum curmudgeon is duly noted, but unfortunately, the position already has many filling the role.

It will be properly round-filed, and surely, one day, we'll get back to you, as those services may one day be required.

In the meantime, we may both agree that the Good Book's admonition 'cast not your pearls before swine' is obviously good advice.

eg8r
05-03-2012, 04:49 PM
Thanks for admitting you were changing the subject and cannot handle it when pointed out.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
05-03-2012, 07:03 PM
Still you don't get it. Not surprising.

These subs are not just dangerous to Iran. They endanger the entire west, as part of the Samson Strategy.

They are good for everything, says the IDF spokesman, including first strike attacks on the capitals of Europe (he doesn't say, for obvious reasons).

And they may serve to try to deter Russia or China, when they come to the aid of their ally, Iran. Although hitting China would probably require a sub in the China Sea, not in the Mediterranean.

Didn't admit anything about what you said, and so far as I know, and have seen from this forum, changing the subject is everyone's perfect right. You seem to have picked up a tic about it, as people frequently mention that has been done as a rebuke.

Rebuke away, I don't care. It is not a substantive complaint in any case, and simply a refusal to comment on the substance of the post, perhaps because you cannot? So YOU change the subject to the supposed change of subject? Just a theory... I might be wrong.

Gayle in MD
05-04-2012, 07:18 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Still you don't get it. Not surprising.

These subs are not just dangerous to Iran. They endanger the entire west, as part of the Samson Strategy.

They are good for everything, says the IDF spokesman, including first strike attacks on the capitals of Europe (he doesn't say, for obvious reasons).

And they may serve to try to deter Russia or China, when they come to the aid of their ally, Iran. Although hitting China would probably require a sub in the China Sea, not in the Mediterranean.

Didn't admit anything about what you said, and so far as I know, and have seen from this forum, changing the subject is everyone's perfect right. You seem to have picked up a tic about it, as people frequently mention that has been done as a rebuke.

Rebuke away, I don't care. It is not a substantive complaint in any case, and simply a refusal to comment on the substance of the post, perhaps because you cannot? So YOU change the subject to the supposed change of subject? Just a theory... I might be wrong. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rebuke away, I don't care. It is not a substantive complaint in any case, and simply a refusal to comment on the substance of the post, <span style='font-size: 14pt'>perhaps because you cannot?</span> So YOU change the subject to the supposed change of subject? Just a theory... I might be wrong. </div></div>

Spot on! <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is not a substantive complaint in any case, </div></div>

The post police, aka Eh8ter, has no other alternative.

G.

eg8r
05-04-2012, 07:25 AM
Well there you have it, the ankle biter put the quilt down and ran her mouth yet again. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

eg8r

Soflasnapper
05-07-2012, 12:09 PM
Classy. No wonder we call you...

Sev
05-08-2012, 06:30 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's not a secret that they already had the others, and for some years by now.

So now they have another one, with a couple more coming down the pike?

You know, their subs' complement of cruise missiles would work for first strike, as well as second strike purposes. A principle reason subs were thought more for second strike than first strike was their relative lack of accuracy (and their hide-away abilities, securing them from pre-emption). In a first strike, targeting communications, control and command, accuracy is very important. But as a deterrent or revenge return strike with nukes, accuracy isn't required so much. I think the cruise missiles are accurate enough for both purposes.

The question for the world is how long Israel will be allowed to remain out of the NNPT regime, or suffer consequences for that position.

It's actually US law, under the Symington amendment, that no US aid is allowed to flow to such a scoff-law country with nukes outside the NNPT regime.

Oh, wait. Israel had never admitted they have nukes. So it cannot be true, and surely, the Symington amendment doesn't apply? And these subs, therefore, are entirely for conventional cruise missiles only? Sure, as an occupied country, we are told we must agree with the overlords.




</div></div>

Actually the Israelis modified the first 3 subs for nuclear capability. The 4 most likely was made to the specs they currently want.

Soflasnapper
05-09-2012, 02:54 PM
I doubt that Israel announced what you've said, as they maintain strategic ambiguity about all things nuclear, and have never admitted anything about that capacity.

If they already had cruise missile launch capability, that's perhaps all that was needed to have nuclear capability (as cruise missiles can carry nukes). Don't know if they need extra shielding, or if the warheads themselves are adequately shielding exposure to the sub crews.

Sev
05-09-2012, 03:51 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I doubt that Israel announced what you've said, as they maintain strategic ambiguity about all things nuclear, and have never admitted anything about that capacity.

If they already had cruise missile launch capability, that's perhaps all that was needed to have nuclear capability (as cruise missiles can carry nukes). Don't know if they need extra shielding, or if the warheads themselves are adequately shielding exposure to the sub crews. </div></div>

of course they didnt announce it. However it has been alluded to in the past. Much like the information about their nuclear stockpile. The have never stated its number. However its been alluded to.

From what I understand they amongst other things they modified the launch tubes. Of course a reason as to why was never given. However the conclusions drawn for such modifications were pretty obvious.

If the Israelis are good at one thing its modifying and improving upon weaponry they purchase.

LWW
05-12-2012, 06:01 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Instead of the dumping everything you think you know about subs into the post why not just address the topic? What is the point in trying to change the topic?

eg8r </div></div>

Excellent questions.