PDA

View Full Version : NDAA's indefinite detention thrown out



Soflasnapper
05-19-2012, 10:17 AM
The country owes a debt of gratitude to the left, who brought this legal challenge and prevailed.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> on Wednesday 16 May, at about 4pm, the republic of the United States of America was drawn back – at least for now – from a precipice that would have plunged our country into moral darkness. One brave and principled newly-appointed judge ruled against a law that would have brought the legal powers of the authorities of Guantánamo home to our own courthouses, streets and backyards.

US district judge Katherine Forrest, in New York City's eastern district, found that section 1021 – the key section of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) – which had been rushed into law amid secrecy and in haste on New Year's Eve 2011, bestowing on any president the power to detain US citizens indefinitely, without charge or trial, "facially unconstitutional". Forrest concluded that the law does indeed have, as the journalists and peaceful activists who brought the lawsuit against the president and Leon Panetta have argued, a "chilling impact on first amendment rights". Her ruling enjoins that section of the NDAA from becoming law.

In her written opinion, the judge noted that she had been persuaded by what the lead plaintiffs – who include Pulitzer prize-winner Chris Hedges of the Nation Institute, editor Jennifer Bolen of RevolutionTruth, Noam Chomsky, Daniel Ellsberg, co-founder of Occupy London Kai Wargalla, Days of Rage editor Alexa O'Brien, and the Icelandic parliamentarian and WikiLeaks activist Birgitta Jónsdóttir – had argued. In their testimonies (in court and by affidavit), these plaintiffs compiled a persuasive case that they had "standing" to sue because it was reasonable for them to worry that they could conceivably could be detained indefinitely under the section 1021 law because their work requires them to have contact with sources the US government might assert were "terrorists" or "associated forces" of al-Qaida.

The key claim made by the plaintiffs – of which Judge Forrest was persuaded – was that the language in section 1021 is so vague that it could sweep up anyone. The law fails to define or specify what "associated forces" or the concept of "substantial support" actually mean.</div></div>

Naomi Wolfe, writing in the UK Guardian. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/may/17/ndaa-section-1021-coup-detat-foiled/print)

Read the whole thing at the link.

Is there some reason why this isn't being covered in the US media? Ya think?

LWW
05-20-2012, 06:55 AM
Yes, the doublethink is strong in you.

Soflasnapper
05-20-2012, 11:05 AM
Obama was condemned for not vetoing the NDAA, because of its providing for the unlimited detention of US citizens. (Somehow this condemnation was not particularly applied to the Republican House, which had it within its own control to take that provision out.)

Now that provision has been overturned by a federal judge.

That's not a good thing, how? Because that's a desirable provision, in your view? And I supposedly suffer from doublethink?

Soflasnapper
05-21-2012, 02:05 PM
I will admit that I do not view mainstream media very much, so I'll ask others the question: have you seen this mentioned anywhere you see news?

A peculiar silence about such a major event, so far as I've seen or heard. Am I wrong?

eg8r
05-22-2012, 01:00 AM
I don't watch mainstream news either but I have seen Obama on the tube here in the UK a few times but always with the sound off so I don't know what they were talking about. I did see one comic that shows Merkel holding the front of her shirt out to catch a falling person (Greece) and save them and there is Obama dressed in a super hero outfit doing nothing to help with the caption that states something like, "I hope this doesn't hurt my chances for re-election". /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

eg8r

Soflasnapper
05-22-2012, 09:18 AM
Funny, but misplaced.

I fail to see what exactly Obama is supposed to do to save the Euro regime. That's their problem over there, and other than the US's involvement with the IMF perhaps, not something the US can do much about. It's pretty much on Germany and Merkel, together with France.

eg8r
05-22-2012, 09:53 AM
Not misplaced at all. It shows Obama as helpless as he possibly could be. Maybe he could be in there telling Greece to go out and spend a couple trillion to save themselves.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
05-22-2012, 12:18 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will admit that I do not view mainstream media very much, so I'll ask others the question: have you seen this mentioned anywhere you see news?

A peculiar silence about such a major event, so far as I've seen or heard. Am I wrong? </div></div>

I have seen it reported, but don't ask me where or when. I do believe that a number of websites have reported on it, as well. Huffingtonpost, Motherjones, Salon.com....

G.

Soflasnapper
05-22-2012, 02:34 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not misplaced at all. It shows Obama as helpless as he possibly could be. Maybe he could be in there telling Greece to go out and spend a couple trillion to save themselves.

eg8r </div></div>

Helpless to control the economy of the EU?

Well, yes he is, as would be any US president. Perhaps you are arguing he should take political steps to allow him to control the EU as the head of their parliament? If not, what is he supposed to have the power to do over there?

He's also helpless to turn coal into diamonds in his bare hands. Shocking.

What are you smoking over there?

eg8r
05-23-2012, 02:53 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Helpless to control the economy of the EU?

</div></div>So in your mind the only way America could help is through controlling them? Give me a break. Maybe Obama could offer help by telling Greece to spend their way out of the debt. This could be a way to help without having to control them. LOL, I am befuddled how quickly you stumble on such simple ideas.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
05-23-2012, 07:52 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Helpless to control the economy of the EU?

</div></div>So in your mind the only way America could help is through controlling them? Give me a break. Maybe Obama could offer help by telling Greece to spend their way out of the debt. This could be a way to help without having to control them. LOL, I am befuddled how quickly you stumble on such simple ideas.

eg8r </div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So in your mind the only way America could help is through controlling them? </div></div>

No, that isn't what Sofla was saying.

Why do you always twist the posts of others around just so that you can put forward a false contradiction of your own.

Reading comprehension? No, I know you can read, but it is your forte' to lie about what you just read. It's intentional on your part. That's how much you love to argue and irritate others. Your goal is never to engage in reasonable debate, including facts, just false interpretations of the dialog.

G.

G.

Soflasnapper
05-23-2012, 09:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Helpless to control the economy of the EU?

</div></div>So in your mind the only way America could help is through controlling them? Give me a break. Maybe Obama could offer help by telling Greece to spend their way out of the debt. This could be a way to help without having to control them. LOL, I am befuddled how quickly you stumble on such simple ideas.

eg8r </div></div>

You don't know what he's advised them.

But he is not an economist. They have their own economic advisors, and their own way of making their own economic policy.

I guess I get your jibe (silly, but whatever), but what we did here is not an available option for Greece. They have no ability to print their currency, as it is the Euro they use, or to borrow without restraint. They cannot borrow at 2% for a 10 year loan as we can, and it's even a question whether they could borrow enough at ANY interest rate (or whether that would work at the 15% or so they'd probably have to pay).

All their available options are painful enough that they should pick their poison. Anything that painful imposed from elsewhere will lead to revolt, and maybe will even if they choose it.

eg8r
05-23-2012, 10:20 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You don't know what he's advised them.

</div></div>Never said I did. You are the one that said he couldn't do anything based on the fact that a cartoonist here in the UK took it upon himself to do his job. LOL, we have gone this path because you chose to argue with a cartoonist who is not here to defend himself. That is what is so funny at this point. You jumped to the conclusion that someone had thought Obama had an ability to "control". You are the one that did that, not me, and we certainly have no idea what the cartoonist meant. To the british man who handed me the cartoon laughed and said, "All Obama cares about is getting re-elected".

eg8r

Qtec
05-24-2012, 05:58 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I fail to see what exactly Obama is supposed to do to save the Euro regime. That's their problem over there, </div></div>

Its a small world. Even smaller when its digital. Everything is now connected. If one part fails, who knows the consequences.

The USA bears a major responsibility for creating this mess. Its only fair they should help with the clean up.

Here is a docu you won't see on Fox. Its Dutch but mostly in English. watch (http://tegenlicht.vpro.nl/afleveringen/2011-2012/Goldman-Sachs-en-de-vernietiging-van-Griekenland.html)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How Goldman Sachs Helped Greece to Mask its True Debt </div></div>

As well as the beginning, part 11 min to 14 min explains how GS had a big hand in creating the crisis and how they profited from it.

If it wasn't for GS, Greece would never have gained entry into the Euro and we wouldn't be having this crisis in Europe!

Sure, the Greeks and guilty but so is GS.



Q

Qtec
05-24-2012, 08:49 AM
shitty deal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLx2Xc1EXLg)

Q

Qtec
05-24-2012, 08:58 AM
link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_NtV6Rptd4)

Q

Soflasnapper
05-24-2012, 09:43 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You don't know what he's advised them.

</div></div>Never said I did. You are the one that said he couldn't do anything based on the fact that a cartoonist here in the UK took it upon himself to do his job. LOL, we have gone this path because you chose to argue with a cartoonist who is not here to defend himself. That is what is so funny at this point. You jumped to the conclusion that someone had thought Obama had an ability to "control". You are the one that did that, not me, and we certainly have no idea what the cartoonist meant. To the british man who handed me the cartoon laughed and said, "All Obama cares about is getting re-elected".

eg8r </div></div>

I questioned what he or she might have meant by all of that, while complimenting the humor.

Clearly, the implication is that a man with either Superman powers or a reputation for having them, or a personal pretense of having them, is being mocked for his inaction, an inaction that either involves his concern for re-election, or an irony that he is concerned it might affect it and yet he is not acting.

I tried to unpack that, questioning what exactly he was supposed to be able to do that he is not doing. Editorial cartoons are often blunt instruments of mockery that make a point without necessarily having any point when looked at more closely. Of course, looking too close may ruin the humor.

But tell me, for your part, are the super powers of a superman the powers of verbal persuasion? The way to fix things is just to give them advice, but advice they are in no way obligated to follow?

Frankly, your own mocking question would be a great way for Greece to handle this. Yes, absolutely, it would work if they could borrow a trillion dollars at 2% interest. They would have done that fairly immediately if that were an option, but it is not. They're looking at probably 15%, and couldn't get anywhere close to $1 trillion even paying that heavy interest rate.

eg8r
05-24-2012, 10:26 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course, looking too close may ruin the humor.

</div></div>Don't want to do that. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But tell me, for your part, are the super powers of a superman the powers of verbal persuasion?</div></div>That was my sarcasm that he could give them the golden nugget of info that Obama is using to get us into more debt, I mean out of debt. I was joking that Obama could use his counter-intuitive skills to help bolster another country (although I am not sure how much more unemployment and debt Greece would need to pull out). As far as a mocking question, yes it was because instead of Obama being the pilot pulling us up out of a stall he is actually the car pressing down the pedal right before the wall, but then as Penn alluded to who really knows.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
05-24-2012, 03:27 PM
Possibly more like Evel Kneivel (sp?), who needs to attain a certain speed to make what is a very risky leap indeed.