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Sev
05-30-2012, 07:04 AM
Another example of how polished and eloquent he is.
Thats ok. He has lacky available to apologize for him.
I suppose it's to much to expect him to know anything about WWII history.



<span style='font-size: 23pt'>Obama Nazi death camp gaffe 'hurt all Poles': PM</span>

Poland's prime minister said Wednesday that remarks by President Barack Obama erroneously identifying a Nazi death camp as Polish had hurt all Poles and he expected more from the US than "regret".

"I am convinced that our American friends can today allow themselves a stronger reaction than a simple expression of regret from the White House spokesman -- a reaction more inclined to eliminate once and for all these kinds of errors," Donald Tusk told reporters in Warsaw.

<span style='font-size: 14pt'><span style="color: #990000">Obama on Tuesday mistakenly called a Nazi facility used to process Jews for execution as a "Polish death camp." The White House later said the president "misspoke" and expressed "regret".</span>
</span>
The linguistic faux pas overshadowed his posthumous award of America's highest civilian honor, the Presidential Medal of Freedom, to Jan Karski, a former Polish anti-Nazi underground officer who provided the Allied powers with early eyewitness accounts of the Germany's Holocaust against Jews.

Obama's words had "hurt all Poles," Tusk said Wednesday.

"Today this is a problem for the reputation of the United States. This can be an opportunity for the US administration and for President Obama to support Poland in its activity for historic truth," Tusk added.

The Polish government keenly watches the global media for descriptions of former concentration camps as "Polish" because it says the term -- even if used simply as a geographical indicator -- can give the impression that Poland bore responsibility for Nazi Germany's World War II genocide.

Although located in Poland, Nazi Germany's most notorious World War II death camp -- Auschwitz -- was set up and run entirely by German dictator Adolf Hitler's occupying forces from 1940 to 1945.

While most of the camp's 1.1 million victims were Jews deported from other German-occupied nations, the Nazis sent at least 300,000 Polish Jews there.

Polish Jews represented around half the six million killed in the Holocaust.

Until 1942, the camp was primarily a prison and killing centre for non-Jewish Poles such as resistance members. An estimated 75,000 died there, out of around 2.6 million non-Jewish Poles who perished under the Nazi German occupation of their country.

eg8r
05-30-2012, 08:05 AM
LOL, why don't we hear gaylio ranting and raving about how little Obama knows like she did on Palin and other Rep quoted in the media for making mistakes about "all things foreign"? Reason, Obama has a (D) at the end of his name.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
05-30-2012, 09:07 AM
It's not enough we have to deal with our own political correctness police, but now we have to be concerned with the Poles' version?

Oh noes, now Obama will lose the Polish-American votes! That DOOMS him!!!!

Get a grip, folks. Did he say he spoke fluent Mexican*, or something??? LOL!

*Previous presidential gaffe.

Sev
05-30-2012, 01:03 PM
It would seem that what the Nazi's did and how the Polish feel about it is of little importance to you.
I have known Polish immigrants and Polish Jews that escaped the Nazi incursion. I can assure you being historically correct on what occurred was important to them. They wanted nothing to do with being associated with Nazi atrocities.

The president should be aware of this particular painful part of Polish history.

Gayle in MD
05-30-2012, 02:58 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It would seem that what the Nazi's did and how the Polish feel about it is of little importance to you.
I have known Polish immigrants and Polish Jews that escaped the Nazi incursion. I can assure you being historically correct on what occurred was important to them. They wanted nothing to do with being associated with Nazi atrocities.

The president should be aware of this particular painful part of Polish history. </div></div>

Oh get off it!

The President IS aware, far more aware of everything and anything than anyone here could ever be.

It was obviously a slip of the lip.

Everyone knows that the death camps WERE in Poland, not Germany!

Give it a break. You're so full of hate for our president, you create gaffs where no such thing existed.

At least he can say N-U-C-L-E-A-R-

AND he doesn't say meshesh, for message, or pick his nose in public!

Not to mention, this president woud never joke about lying our troops into fighting a war for his oil buddies, and then joke about not finding bin Laden, looking around under the sofa in the Oval Office, making fun of all of the dopes he conned, while our soldiers were dying on the field, due to his gross lies!

G.

LWW
05-30-2012, 03:06 PM
Don't forget ... His uncle was in the Soviet army that liberated Auschwitz, and he saw dead oldies in the crowd one Memorial Day.

And, keep in mind, the O-cult isn't interested in any opinion other than the opinion that dear leader is rights no matter what he says.

Sev
05-30-2012, 03:18 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It would seem that what the Nazi's did and how the Polish feel about it is of little importance to you.
I have known Polish immigrants and Polish Jews that escaped the Nazi incursion. I can assure you being historically correct on what occurred was important to them. They wanted nothing to do with being associated with Nazi atrocities.

The president should be aware of this particular painful part of Polish history. </div></div>

Oh get off it!

The President IS aware, far more aware of everything and anything than anyone here could ever be.

It was obviously a slip of the lip.

Everyone knows that the death camps WERE in Poland, not Germany!

Give it a break. You're so full of hate for our president, you create gaffs where no such thing existed.

At least he can say N-U-C-L-E-A-R-

AND he doesn't say meshesh, for message, or pick his nose in public!

Not to mention, this president woud never joke about lying our troops into fighting a war for his oil buddies, and then joke about not finding bin Laden, looking around under the sofa in the Oval Office, making fun of all of the dopes he conned, while our soldiers were dying on the field, due to his gross lies!

G.

</div></div>

And yet he seems blissfully unaware.

Soflasnapper
05-30-2012, 04:13 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't forget ... His uncle was in the Soviet army that liberated Auschwitz, and he saw dead oldies in the crowd one Memorial Day.

And, keep in mind, the O-cult isn't interested in any opinion other than the opinion that dear leader is rights no matter what he says. </div></div>

Don't be silly! Reagan was in that army, as he told Menachem Begin, to his utter astonishment. (Historical fact. The last part, I mean.)

Soflasnapper
05-30-2012, 04:15 PM
It was obviously a slip of the lip.

No, it was a speechwriter's and vetters' slip, not Obama's. The Poles are misplacing the direction of their ire.

Gayle in MD
05-30-2012, 04:16 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It would seem that what the Nazi's did and how the Polish feel about it is of little importance to you.
I have known Polish immigrants and Polish Jews that escaped the Nazi incursion. I can assure you being historically correct on what occurred was important to them. They wanted nothing to do with being associated with Nazi atrocities.

The president should be aware of this particular painful part of Polish history. </div></div>

Oh get off it!

The President IS aware, far more aware of everything and anything than anyone here could ever be.

It was obviously a slip of the lip.

Everyone knows that the death camps WERE in Poland, not Germany!

Give it a break. You're so full of hate for our president, you create gaffs where no such thing existed.

At least he can say N-U-C-L-E-A-R-

AND he doesn't say meshesh, for message, or pick his nose in public!

Not to mention, this president woud never joke about lying our troops into fighting a war for his oil buddies, and then joke about not finding bin Laden, looking around under the sofa in the Oval Office, making fun of all of the dopes he conned, while our soldiers were dying on the field, due to his gross lies!

G.

</div></div>

And yet he seems blissfully unaware. </div></div>

President Obama is not unaware of a damned thing!


Unaware is a word that describes the posts written by the righties on this forum, out of sheer desperation, I might add, blowing nothing, into something, or so they think.

As their many redundant posts prove quite well.

G.

eg8r
05-30-2012, 05:35 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The President IS aware, far more aware of everything and anything than anyone here could ever be.
</div></div>Then according to you he chooses to embarass himself and his country. LOL, when this was an (R) making these "slip of the lip" statements you chastised them. Apparently you can dish it out but cannot take it.

eg8r

eg8r
05-30-2012, 05:37 PM
LOL, you don't allow Obama to take any blame whatsoever do you. Gayle tries to tell us Obama knows more about this than anyone and then you go and tell us we were right all along. We were right that Obama really is stupid and is just reading a teleprompter and not really doing any thinking on his own. You tell us that this gaffe is the fault of the speechwriter and vetter's when it was Obama that actually said the words. I guess you doing your best to show us just how low you will go to save Obama from his own self. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

eg8r

cushioncrawler
05-31-2012, 06:15 AM
Haz anyone here heard of a pact made by the poles and russians before WW2, to eliminate jews.
mac.

Gayle in MD
05-31-2012, 06:35 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The President IS aware, far more aware of everything and anything than anyone here could ever be.
</div></div>Then according to you he chooses to embarass himself and his country. LOL, when this was an (R) making these "slip of the lip" statements you chastised them. Apparently you can dish it out but cannot take it.

eg8r </div></div>

Another shot in the dark, personal attack.

How boring, and irrelevant to the thread, as usual.

G.

Sev
05-31-2012, 06:40 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It would seem that what the Nazi's did and how the Polish feel about it is of little importance to you.
I have known Polish immigrants and Polish Jews that escaped the Nazi incursion. I can assure you being historically correct on what occurred was important to them. They wanted nothing to do with being associated with Nazi atrocities.

The president should be aware of this particular painful part of Polish history. </div></div>

Oh get off it!

The President IS aware, far more aware of everything and anything than anyone here could ever be.

It was obviously a slip of the lip.

Everyone knows that the death camps WERE in Poland, not Germany!

Give it a break. You're so full of hate for our president, you create gaffs where no such thing existed.

At least he can say N-U-C-L-E-A-R-

AND he doesn't say meshesh, for message, or pick his nose in public!

Not to mention, this president woud never joke about lying our troops into fighting a war for his oil buddies, and then joke about not finding bin Laden, looking around under the sofa in the Oval Office, making fun of all of the dopes he conned, while our soldiers were dying on the field, due to his gross lies!

G.

</div></div>

And yet he seems blissfully unaware. </div></div>

President Obama is not unaware of a damned thing!


Unaware is a word that describes the posts written by the righties on this forum, out of sheer desperation, I might add, blowing nothing, into something, or so they think.

As their many redundant posts prove quite well.

G. </div></div>

Pot calling kettle black.

Gayle in MD
05-31-2012, 06:43 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL, you don't allow Obama to take any blame whatsoever do you. Gayle tries to tell us Obama knows more about this than anyone and then you go and tell us we were right all along. We were right that Obama really is stupid and is just reading a teleprompter and not really doing any thinking on his own. You tell us that this gaffe is the fault of the speechwriter and vetter's when it was Obama that actually said the words. I guess you doing your best to show us just how low you will go to save Obama from his own self. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

eg8r </div></div>

More incorrect skewing of what another has written.

For someone who thought that our Counter Terrorist Czar, Richard Clarke, was a terrorist, and Valarie Plame was just a Secretary, you have a lot of gall criticizing a man who graduated Summa Cum Laude, and was President of the Harvard Law Review.

G.

Gayle in MD
05-31-2012, 06:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It would seem that what the Nazi's did and how the Polish feel about it is of little importance to you.
I have known Polish immigrants and Polish Jews that escaped the Nazi incursion. I can assure you being historically correct on what occurred was important to them. They wanted nothing to do with being associated with Nazi atrocities.

The president should be aware of this particular painful part of Polish history. </div></div>

Oh get off it!

The President IS aware, far more aware of everything and anything than anyone here could ever be.

It was obviously a slip of the lip.

Everyone knows that the death camps WERE in Poland, not Germany!

Give it a break. You're so full of hate for our president, you create gaffs where no such thing existed.

At least he can say N-U-C-L-E-A-R-

AND he doesn't say meshesh, for message, or pick his nose in public!

Not to mention, this president woud never joke about lying our troops into fighting a war for his oil buddies, and then joke about not finding bin Laden, looking around under the sofa in the Oval Office, making fun of all of the dopes he conned, while our soldiers were dying on the field, due to his gross lies!

G.

</div></div>

And yet he seems blissfully unaware. </div></div>

President Obama is not unaware of a damned thing!


Unaware is a word that describes the posts written by the righties on this forum, out of sheer desperation, I might add, blowing nothing, into something, or so they think.

As their many redundant posts prove quite well.

G. </div></div>

Pot calling kettle black. </div></div>

What I post is based on facts, not on embroidering out of desperation, racism and hatred.

Like for example, it is a FACT that George Bush is wanted for WAR CRIMES. FACT!

It is also a fact that President Obama is a brilliant man. FACT! A proven fact.

G.

eg8r
05-31-2012, 07:50 AM
LOL, more comprehension problems on your part. As far as criticizing, maybe you should practice what you preach the next time you criticize someone in a position or place with an education far beyond yours.

eg8r

DiabloViejo
05-31-2012, 07:59 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL, more comprehension problems on your part. As far as criticizing, maybe you should practice what you preach the next time you criticize someone in a position or place with an education far beyond yours.

eg8r </div></div>

Hmmm...so seeing as how Obama is in a position far beyond yours, and has an education far beyond yours..when are you going to start taking your own advice and stop your mindless partisan criticism of him? Oh silly me, I forgot that you right wingers like to preach "do as I say and not as I do."

eg8r
05-31-2012, 09:11 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmm...so seeing as how Obama is in a position far beyond yours, and has an education far beyond yours..when are you going to start taking your own advice and stop your mindless partisan criticism of him?</div></div>I am not dillhole that advice came from the hypocritical mouth of gaylio. LOL, yet another idiot lefty that cannot comphrehend the words in front of his face. LOL you would think these idiots would take a breath before trying to pop off a dim-witted response.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
05-31-2012, 09:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It was obviously a slip of the lip.

No, it was a speechwriter's and vetters' slip, not Obama's. The Poles are misplacing the direction of their ire. </div></div>

A mere grammatical error, blown out of proprotion, IMO.

The Poles need to get a grip!

G.

Soflasnapper
05-31-2012, 09:41 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL, you don't allow Obama to take any blame whatsoever do you. Gayle tries to tell us Obama knows more about this than anyone and then you go and tell us we were right all along. We were right that Obama really is stupid and is just reading a teleprompter and not really doing any thinking on his own. You tell us that this gaffe is the fault of the speechwriter and vetter's when it was Obama that actually said the words. I guess you doing your best to show us just how low you will go to save Obama from his own self. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

eg8r </div></div>

A president has potential dealings with every country in the world. I think that number is about 160. Unless a president has a lifetime in the foreign service as a diplomat or scholar, and probably not even then because there are specialty areas, there is no possible way for a president to know the ins and outs of every country's sensitivities, historical grievances, people they hate and the wrong names to mention, etc. Countries carry historical grievances for a long time, and over 100 years is not out of the question.

It's similar to having direct personal knowledge of all diplomatic protocols. No president could possibly have that knowledge, unless it had been learned as the Veep for four or eight years before taking the office, and probably not then.

And realistically, there is far too much to the job and far too many things demanding urgent attention for it to be a good idea for the president to study up on all those things and be his own specialist expert on those matters.

So, the president has diplomatic protocol specialists, and foreign service lifers in the State Dept., who have a part in vetting speeches for these issues. If the speech has been scrubbed, reviewed and vetted, as any significant speech is, then the president should deliver it as written and not improvise, precisely to avoid any extemporaneous error.

That's what I have heard he did-- read it directly from a teleprompter. That's what he should have done, without question, for the reason I describe.

He was badly served by his team at some level. It's not an excuse, it's reality. And it happens.

The most severe gaffe of this sort I remember was when George W. Bush called our war on terror 'a crusade.' That was a far worse error, as it was against our national interest leading up to a WAR to incite THAT old Christian vs. Islam situation when we were explicitly trying to say we were not in any religiously based war against Islam broadly, per se, and quite the opposite. W's people had him walk that back in a hurry, but those words resonated across over 1.2 billion Moslems across the world.

Again, in that case, if that was vetted language, W was poorly served. If he came up with it off the top of his head, then he was to blame for not running it by his experts, and the situation provides a perfect example of the reason why presidents should READ prepared and vetted remarks in matters of state generally, and in matters of war, specifically.

By comparison to such a grave matter as war, this is a mild situation involving the granting of a high honor to a foreign national with who's country we have an excellent relationship. Luckily.

eg8r
05-31-2012, 11:32 AM
LOL, long winded for you to just say that my assessment was dead on correct.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
05-31-2012, 01:32 PM
I said the opposite of what you said.

Obama is far from stupid, or if he's stupid, you are an imbecile in the technical meaning of the word.

I have said it was staff work, and presidents must rely on staff work. With all that is on any president's plate, national security matters globally and domestically, the economy, etc., they cannot be masters of every detail. Nor does lack of mastery of all details say anything about their intelligence. It is a sign of intelligence to do triage on the work load, and have staff handling crap like the ridiculous sensitivities of small relatively insignificant countries.

Carter was rightly criticized for micro-managing, and he was a fairly brilliant man, although perhaps not so good at managing, which involves trusting the team assembled with delegated tasks.

eg8r
05-31-2012, 01:42 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I said the opposite of what you said.

Obama is far from stupid, or if he's stupid, you are an imbecile in the technical meaning of the word.
</div></div>LOL, if I was the subject that would matter but again, your strawman isn't very effective. Let's keep to the subject. The idiot made a statment of which he is supposed to be an expert yet unable to read ahead before his mouth starts moving. Again, if gaylio had not made a big deal about missteps like this in the past it might have been passed over on this forum. However, since you are a fairly latecomer (at least to responding) you don't have a firm grasp on the history of her, or qtips, attacks which leads you to think we are being petty when in fact we are just flattering them through mimickery (mockery fits as well /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif ).

eg8r

Soflasnapper
05-31-2012, 02:59 PM
Even experts do not know everything. Ken Jennings does not know everything. If the bar for being smart you're suggesting is 100% knowledge, then everyone is an idiot.

I did not see everything that went on before, that's true. But if your feelings were hurt because you thought W was smart, and someone said he was stupid, I'm sorry, but he was fairly stupid and grossly inadequate to the task. Maybe slightly above average compared to the US population, but that isn't saying much.

You want stupid, look to William Kristol or Bill O'Reilly for blowhard examples. Consistently wrong about everything, and yet entirely sanctimonious about their superior alleged knowledge.

eg8r
05-31-2012, 03:09 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even experts do not know everything. Ken Jennings does not know everything. If the bar for being smart you're suggesting is 100% knowledge, then everyone is an idiot.
</div></div>I am not suggesting anything. I was quite clear in saying that we are mimicking what the lefties did here for a decade. Never said anything about feelings so why are you bringing them up.


eg8r

Sev
05-31-2012, 04:17 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It would seem that what the Nazi's did and how the Polish feel about it is of little importance to you.
I have known Polish immigrants and Polish Jews that escaped the Nazi incursion. I can assure you being historically correct on what occurred was important to them. They wanted nothing to do with being associated with Nazi atrocities.

The president should be aware of this particular painful part of Polish history. </div></div>

Oh get off it!

The President IS aware, far more aware of everything and anything than anyone here could ever be.

It was obviously a slip of the lip.

Everyone knows that the death camps WERE in Poland, not Germany!

Give it a break. You're so full of hate for our president, you create gaffs where no such thing existed.

At least he can say N-U-C-L-E-A-R-

AND he doesn't say meshesh, for message, or pick his nose in public!

Not to mention, this president woud never joke about lying our troops into fighting a war for his oil buddies, and then joke about not finding bin Laden, looking around under the sofa in the Oval Office, making fun of all of the dopes he conned, while our soldiers were dying on the field, due to his gross lies!

G.

</div></div>

And yet he seems blissfully unaware. </div></div>

President Obama is not unaware of a damned thing!


Unaware is a word that describes the posts written by the righties on this forum, out of sheer desperation, I might add, blowing nothing, into something, or so they think.

As their many redundant posts prove quite well.

G. </div></div>

Pot calling kettle black. </div></div>

What I post is based on facts, not on embroidering out of desperation, racism and hatred.

Like for example, it is a FACT that George Bush is wanted for WAR CRIMES. FACT!

It is also a fact that President Obama is a brilliant man. FACT! A proven fact.

G. </div></div>
OH boy!!!
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t278/Sevelli/Emoticons/36_2_34-1.gifhttp://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t278/Sevelli/Emoticons/36_2_34-1.gifhttp://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t278/Sevelli/Emoticons/36_2_34-1.gif

Soflasnapper
05-31-2012, 05:38 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even experts do not know everything. Ken Jennings does not know everything. If the bar for being smart you're suggesting is 100% knowledge, then everyone is an idiot.
</div></div>I am not suggesting anything. I was quite clear in saying that we are mimicking what the lefties did here for a decade. Never said anything about feelings so why are you bringing them up.


eg8r </div></div>

If you found their prior practice wrong, why would you now do it? Apparently it stung at the time, which is my inference (not your statement), and you now seek revenge. Or something.

I find it incoherent, unless you have a grudge.

I have strongly disagreed with LWW, but I hope and pray that won't make me imitate his wrongful stylings.