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Grady
10-02-2002, 08:43 AM
First allow me to thank those of you who have their lives in such good order and are so wise that they can deign to tell me what I ought to do with my life.I appreciate the effort.
Suppose that, after being supportive of me and my events, which Accu-stats has certainly done over the years, I called them and said that I had a Pay-Per-View affair coming up and would they come and film it? They agreed and after setting up and working hard early in the week, they found out by accident that I was going to use for the televised portion of the tournament, Robert Byrne, Bert Kinnister and Jay Helfert.Do you think they'd be angry and upset?
All I want people to know is how much it hurts to be given such short shrift at the Open. I have defended Accu-stats when players weren't going to play in tournaments where they were going to be present. I painstakingly did the math, as I saw it and pointed out how great Accu-stats has been for the industry, etc.But every time a commentating job with good exposure has arisen, Cardone or somebody else has gotten it.
I promise I won't belabor this further. It's just important to me that I tell my side of the story.What's really sad here is that today I sign the contract for my facility and next year, where I am going to stage the World One Pocket championship and the World 14.1 championship. I'm so soured about the Open that if I did decide to film anything it certainly, as it stands wouldn't consider using Accu-stats.They showed not a tincture of loyalty to me, after my years of hard work. I don't see that I owe them anything further, except perhaps a wary distance.

10-02-2002, 08:54 AM
Blah Blah Blah!

10-02-2002, 09:13 AM
Grady, if you think all this whining and crying is improving you chances for future employment, with Accu-stats or anyone else, you are sadly mistaken.

You are digging yourself a very deep hole. Think about it! Better yet--get over it!

Wally_in_Cincy
10-02-2002, 09:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Grady:</font><hr> I have defended Accu-stats when players weren't going to play in tournaments where they were going to be present. <hr></blockquote>

Why would players do that? Seriously, I don't understand.

Grady
10-02-2002, 09:42 AM
Some players have thought that Accu-stats made a lot of money. They only pay $.50 a tape each to the two players who are on any tape.If you do the rough math, it's easy to see how expensive it is to produce those tapes but honestly, some pool players are awfully dumb.

Tom_In_Cincy
10-02-2002, 09:51 AM
Grady,
I have always admired your attitude about pool playing, instructing and all around respect for this game.

Your videos have been recommended more often than I could imagine to aspiring players wanting to know more about the game.

I wish you the very best of luck in your future.

Thanks for all the years of commentating and performance and instructional venues.

Vicki
10-02-2002, 10:13 AM
Seriously, Grady,

It was published by Accu-Stats weeks before the Open that 3 people other than you were going to be doing the announcing for the PPV. This is something that you either knew about or at least should have known about. It seems you failed to keep yourself informed. It was told to me that you knew you weren't getting the job in advance and crashed a meeting between those who were involved and made a huge scene.

My life is in good order and I am wise enough to know that if you air your dirty laundry in a public place the public will see the [censored] stains in your underwear.

Whether you not you are good at commentating these matches or whether or not you have done any good for the industry is not something I am qualified to say. But you have started no less than 3 separate posts whining about this and then you complain that people have responded with their opinions on the subject. What do you think this forum is for??? If you don't want our input then write a press release and send it to the magazines and websites that are interesed. When you post on these forums you need to be prepared for the fact that some people will be supportive and some will disagree with you. If you can't handle it then don't talk about it.

I am sorry for you that you didn't get the job you wanted and felt you deserved. I understand how disappointed you must be. Good luck with your future projects.

Vicki

10-02-2002, 10:14 AM
I thought i could hear violins in the background. St

bluewolf
10-02-2002, 12:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Vicki:</font><hr> Seriously, Grady,

It was published by Accu-Stats weeks before the Open that 3 people other than you were going to be doing the announcing for the PPV. This is something that you either knew about or at least should have known about. It seems you failed to keep yourself informed. It was told to me that you knew you weren't getting the job in advance and crashed a meeting between those who were involved and made a huge scene.

My life is in good order and I am wise enough to know that if you air your dirty laundry in a public place the public will see the [censored] stains in your underwear.

Whether you not you are good at commentating these matches or whether or not you have done any good for the industry is not something I am qualified to say. But you have started no less than 3 separate posts whining about this and then you complain that people have responded with their opinions on the subject. What do you think this forum is for??? If you don't want our input then write a press release and send it to the magazines and websites that are interesed. When you post on these forums you need to be prepared for the fact that some people will be supportive and some will disagree with you. If you can't handle it then don't talk about it.

I am sorry for you that you didn't get the job you wanted and felt you deserved. I understand how disappointed you must be. Good luck with your future projects.

Vicki <hr></blockquote>

I have been on Grady's end when I aired my feelings and got slammed by some. What I am hearing Grady say is that he was very hurt and wanted to have his feelings heard.Sometimes when I need to vent,even if it sounds like I am on the pity pot, I just want to be heard,my feelings validated as a friend,not necessarily my actions.So Grady, if that is the case, I do hear your feelings and am sorry that things turned out this way for you.

As far as the one pocket championship you are putting on, that sounds wonderful. I hope you will get the best coverage for your event. Sometimes we have to eat a little 'humble pie' and if you decide that 'accustats'is the best coverage, then it might just show some people that you are strong enough to rise above resentments and do the best for all.If you can use logic and put the good of your event ahead of your personal feelings, that would say some alfully fine things about your character and the man you are.

bw

PoolFan
10-02-2002, 03:29 PM
Grady,

I really missed your point of view on this board, you crack me up!

Best of luck getting your beloved commentating position!

rackmup
10-02-2002, 03:49 PM
Your anger would make a lot more sense to me (and probably others) if this Press Release, dated August 5th, 2002 (well before your arrival at the Open) was explained and how you were led to believe you were one of the commentators when your name isn't mentioned along with the others already chosen. Were you to be the "Fourth Man in the Booth"? Pay particular attention to the paragraph highlited in bold red text.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Press Release displayed at AZBilliards.com:</font><hr>

BCn Creates Big Demand for 9-Ball Championship in U.S. and Canada

Pay -Per-View Giant iN DEMAND Joins Bell ExpressVu and Dish Network in LIVE Broadcast

ST. LOUIS, MO (<font color=red>August 5, 2002</font color=red>)

BILLIARD CLUB network (BCn) has reached an agreement with iN DEMAND Pay-Per-View and Bell ExpressVu to show the final match of 2002 U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship. iN DEMAND and ExpressVu join Dish Network in the September 29, 2002 premier of the live pay-per-view (PPV) billiards broadcast.

iN DEMAND is the nations largest pay-per-view service and is providing the U. S. Open 9-Ball Championship event to over 1700 cable system providers including Adelphia, AT&amp;T Broadband, Charter Communications, Comcast, Cox Communications, and Time Warner. The event will be broadcast through the iN DEMAND 2 (iN2) channel that reaches over 21 million homes nationwide. The PPV is available for $9.95 for residential customers and $99.95 for commercial accounts. Ordering and iN DEMAND Pay-Per-View information can be found at www.indemand.com. (http://www.indemand.com.)

"iN DEMAND opened up its schedule to accommodate the live broadcast," said Rob Sykora, BCn's president. "They believe in this event so much, they bumped a previously scheduled high profile movie."


Bell ExpressVu (Vu!) is currently the largest pay-per-view service of its kind in Canada with more than one million satellite subscribers to its Vu! service. Bell also operates a closed-circuit television system to commercial establishments and will offer the event to those customers as well. Subscriber information and purchasing details will be available online at www.expressvu.com (http://www.expressvu.com) starting in September.

<font color=red>The three-man broadcast team for the event is set and will be anchored by former world ranked snooker professional turned commentator <font color=black>Jim Wych</font color=black>. Along side Jim will be inaugural U. S. Open Champion and "Hall of Famer" <font color=black>Mike Sigel</font color=black> and the voice of Accu-Stats, <font color=black>Billy Incardona</font color=black>. Wych is an internationally renowned billiard commentator and boasts over 100 televised productions worldwide to his list of credits. He's a 12-year veteran and the backbone of SKY Sports' billiard commentary crew. He has been involved in every single Mosconi Cup 9-Ball Challenge and World 9-Ball Championship since their move to Wales four years ago. His energetic and insightful brand of commentary is sure to bring a unique and positive flavor to the broadcast. Mike Sigel has been a mainstay in ESPN's billiards broadcast booth and will bring an equal amount of high energy and perception to the event. Incardona has been commentating Accu-Stats match videos for 13 years and is also a former world ranked pro player.</font color=red>

BCn is a national network of billiard clubs, poolrooms, and sports bars that join together to promote pool by featuring Billiard Club television as their in-house video entertainment. BCtv features match footage, instructional segments, and other entertainment including video footage from Affiliates Clubs in the network. BCtv is a production of BCn and is sponsored in part by Accu-Stats, the American Poolplayers Association, Aramith Belgian Billiard Balls, Billiards.com, Billiards Digest, Iwan Simonis, Lucasi Cues, and Matchroom Sport.

For more information about the U. S. Open and BCn call toll free 1-866-774-8770. Information and updates can also be found at www.billiardclubtv.com. (http://www.billiardclubtv.com.)
<hr></blockquote>

Sincerely and with respect,

Ken

10-02-2002, 04:15 PM
I really think you are more than qualified to do the commentary on any pool video. But the truth is you owe nothing to Accu-Stats, you charged them for a service and they paid you for the service. The end. They owe you nothing. They owe Mike Sigel nothing, they owe Billy Incardona nothing.
Run your tournament(s), if Accu-Stats wants to cover some matches, work a new deal to do the "color" if that is what you really want. But keep it private. Your public "venting" is setting the bystanders against you.

bluewolf
10-02-2002, 04:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: rackmup:</font><hr> Your anger would make a lot more sense to me (and probably others) if this Press Release, dated August 5th, 2002 (well before your arrival at the Open) was explained and how you were led to believe you were one of the commentators when your name isn't mentioned along with the others already chosen. Were you to be the "Fourth Man in the Booth"? Pay particular attention to the paragraph highlited in bold red text.

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Press Release displayed at AZBilliards.com:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt;

BCn Creates Big Demand for 9-Ball Championship in U.S. and Canada

Pay -Per-View Giant iN DEMAND Joins Bell ExpressVu and Dish Network in LIVE Broadcast

ST. LOUIS, MO (<font color=red>August 5, 2002</font color=red>)

BILLIARD CLUB network (BCn) has reached an agreement with iN DEMAND Pay-Per-View and Bell ExpressVu to show the final match of 2002 U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship. iN DEMAND and ExpressVu join Dish Network in the September 29, 2002 premier of the live pay-per-view (PPV) billiards broadcast.

iN DEMAND is the nations largest pay-per-view service and is providing the U. S. Open 9-Ball Championship event to over 1700 cable system providers including Adelphia, AT&amp;T Broadband, Charter Communications, Comcast, Cox Communications, and Time Warner. The event will be broadcast through the iN DEMAND 2 (iN2) channel that reaches over 21 million homes nationwide. The PPV is available for $9.95 for residential customers and $99.95 for commercial accounts. Ordering and iN DEMAND Pay-Per-View information can be found at www.expressvu.com (http://www.indemand.com.>www.indemand.com.</a>) starting in September.

<font color=red>The three-man broadcast team for the event is set and will be anchored by former world ranked snooker professional turned commentator <font color=black>Jim Wych</font color=black>. Along side Jim will be inaugural U. S. Open Champion and "Hall of Famer" <font color=black>Mike Sigel</font color=black> and the voice of Accu-Stats, <font color=black>Billy Incardona</font color=black>. Wych is an internationally renowned billiard commentator and boasts over 100 televised productions worldwide to his list of credits. He's a 12-year veteran and the backbone of SKY Sports' billiard commentary crew. He has been involved in every single Mosconi Cup 9-Ball Challenge and World 9-Ball Championship since their move to Wales four years ago. His energetic and insightful brand of commentary is sure to bring a unique and positive flavor to the broadcast. Mike Sigel has been a mainstay in ESPN's billiards broadcast booth and will bring an equal amount of high energy and perception to the event. Incardona has been commentating Accu-Stats match videos for 13 years and is also a former world ranked pro player.</font color=red>

BCn is a national network of billiard clubs, poolrooms, and sports bars that join together to promote pool by featuring Billiard Club television as their in-house video entertainment. BCtv features match footage, instructional segments, and other entertainment including video footage from Affiliates Clubs in the network. BCtv is a production of BCn and is sponsored in part by Accu-Stats, the American Poolplayers Association, Aramith Belgian Billiard Balls, Billiards.com, Billiards Digest, Iwan Simonis, Lucasi Cues, and Matchroom Sport.

For more information about the U. S. Open and BCn call toll free 1-866-774-8770. Information and updates can also be found at <a target="_blank" href=http://www.billiardclubtv.com.>www.billiardclubtv.com.</a>
&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Sincerely and with respect,

Ken <hr></blockquote>

feelings dont have to be logical or factual. they are just feelings. regardless of whether what brady said was based in fact or not,he felt hurt.sometimes i get irrationally mad about something and think everybody is out to get me. i have friends who just listen. once everything finally settles including my crazy feelings, i eventually figure out what was really at the source of my rage.

there could be other issues under the surface that i dont know about like feelings of age discrimination,feelings that i am being thrown away like an old dust rag after i have given my youth, committment and vitality to the very industry that feels to me to be throwing me away. this is an example of one possible issue, not necessarily what is hurting brady....but my feellings are not factual...my feellings are not logical...they are feelings.... and that is why i can say to brady, right or wrong, logical or illogical, i can extend my hand in friendship and say...

i will listen to your feelings and not judge.and partly because i have many character defects but when i am hurting i want my friends to just listen and hold me while i cry and in time we figure out what to do next...

bw

rackmup
10-02-2002, 04:27 PM
Bluewolf:

The press release is dated 08/05/2002! It clearly states who the commentators are. I'm asking for Grady's interpretation of the press release and respectfully, not opinions or speculation from other posters. Only Grady knows what the deal was and based on the text of this press release, he was never figured into the mix (at least the mix that counts and that is what is in black and white.)

No disrespect to your feelings or issues but with Grady's repeated posts about getting "screwed", this press release deserves his attention and if he feels like posting something here at the CCB, it should be about the facts in this document, not the angry ramblings that we have seen in days since the Open.

Regards,

Ken (as my good detective buddies from L.A. used to say; "Just the facts, Ma'am. Just the facts.")

bluewolf
10-02-2002, 04:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: rackmup:</font><hr> Bluewolf:

The press release is dated 08/05/2002! It clearly states who the commentators are. I'm asking for Grady's interpretation of the press release and respectfully, not opinions or speculation from other posters. Only Grady knows what the deal was and based on the text of this press release, he was never figured into the mix (at least the mix that counts and that is what is in black and white.)

No disrespect to your feelings or issues but with Grady's repeated posts about getting "screwed", this press release deserves his attention and if he feels like posting something here at the CCB, it should be about the facts in this document, not the angry ramblings that we have seen in days since the Open.

Regards,

Ken (as my good detective buddies from L.A. used to say; "Just the facts, Ma'am. Just the facts.") <hr></blockquote>

ken,

you are definately one of my favorite people here and i hear what you are saying.

i have done my share of whinning, being on the 'pity pot' and making an a// out of myself by going public when it might have been better [you know hindsight is 20 20] to have had private conversations with some friends.

i have done lots of bad stuff in my life and regretfully still do at times and have coped some real bad attitudes,just not in a position to judge. figure the few heinous things i havent done am capable of....but i really do hear you....guess we might be looking at the opposite sides of the same coin, friend....

keep up the funnies..

bw

10-02-2002, 05:09 PM
Quote: Bluewolf

"I have been on Grady's end when I aired my feelings and got slammed by some. What I am hearing Grady say is that he was very hurt and wanted to have his feelings heard.Sometimes when I need to vent,even if it sounds like I am on the pity pot, I just want to be heard,my feelings validated as a friend,not necessarily my actions. "
----------------------

BW, as much as I can empathize with your layman's pluck in your battle with St. Crimi, your drippy, feely touchy pathos of late is discrediting your cause.

Just a thought, but should the intensity and passion of one's feelings, however transitory, come before FACTS, REASON, and other people's cherished feelings and REPUTATIONS?

What if others on this board just come full bore at you, with no regard to your feelings and good name, everytime they feel you are out of line. Perhaps in your world words and banterings mean very little. Should you presume likewise for the majority of the users of this forum?

As much as some of us would like this to be a casual, inconsequential little CHAT board, promoting unfiltered, unedited personal venting found in some surreal therapy session, somehow I think a collective and palpable "yuck", and "oh...not again!" permeate the board some such scatter-mouth as Grady and BW have one of their loose "personality movement".

But wanting to "get one's feelings heard" would always come before any other considerations!

Alas, some of us just never mature beyond a seven-year-old's perspective-taking.

Grady
10-02-2002, 06:54 PM
I didn't see the press release. If I had, I would have quit Accu-stats before the tournament.I called Pat Fleming when I heard that there was going to Pay-Per-View for the finals. This was about a month before the tournament. he obviously knew then that I wasn't going to get to do the commentary. he should have told me so.

Vicki
10-02-2002, 07:12 PM
I'm sorry, but the fact that you failed to inform yourself AND ASSUMED that you would get the job garners no sympathy from me. You should conduct your business in a business like manner. Get it in writing and keep it off these public forums. Trashing Accu-Stats is the second most unprofessional act I've seen in pool recently. This trash talking only comes back to bite you in the butt. I find it shocking that so many in this industry think nothing of getting on these public forums and blowing off steam at the expense of others and the billiard industry as a whole. This is the reason that pool is a second class sport and as long as people like you continue to conduct themselves like this pool will remain a second class sport.

Accu-Stats is one of the most successfull independent businesses in billiards. They are doing a first class job and have done a lot to earn the respect and support of everyone in pool.

Vicki

rackmup
10-02-2002, 07:25 PM
Fair enough.

Regards,

Ken

Chris Cass
10-02-2002, 07:33 PM
Grady,

I admit I was a little hard on you but, I don't think you should be disrespected as you've been by some. I see your attitude has become somewhat relaxed and I for one am content.

Is there anyway you can commentary your own event and market the tapes on your own? I realize there's some type of formality you must do to take on such a task. I'm thinking licensing or something like that. I'm not sure and don't actually know the costs involved in doing so.

Either way as long as you've been a part of or supporter of Accu-Stats I think you deserve some type of announcement personally. I also think Pat should have said something to you about it. If your on a strickly business basis with Pat of a friendship basis, you should have been notified regardless. IMO

Regards,

C.C.

cueball1950
10-02-2002, 08:39 PM
Grady.... they blew it. not you. but you have to stop beating a dead horse. it is over and done with. call them and find out when they hired the other guy. someone posted earlier that they announced a couple of weeks ago the starting line up in the booth. So please just let it go. Besides, i think Mike S. did a lousy job. too much bantering and not enough about the match at hand....mike

10-03-2002, 12:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Vicki:</font><hr> Trashing Accu-Stats is the second most unprofessional act I've seen in pool recently

<hr></blockquote>

Okay already I'll bite

What's the first?BS

jjinfla
10-03-2002, 05:03 AM
Grady, The only thing Accu-stats, or any company, is interested in is the bottom line. After it is over and they add up their costs vs sales the net will tell them if they made the right decision. I doubt that they care who the players are or who the announcers are other than they can draw people to purchase the tapes. Personally, I believe they were hoping that Earl Strickland would have been in the finals. And that he would blow-up and they could get it on tape. Evidently they probably figured the three they chose have had more "face time" than you have had and would be readily accepted by the viewing audiance. I believe that Wyche and Incardona are known products for Accu-Stats and Mike Sigel seems to be getting more and more popular on ESPN so they went with the three of them. Looks like you entered the tournament, came in fourth, and they only paid three places. It seems to me that it was strictly a business decision based on Sigel's voice, presentation, observation and on-air-comments over yours. Jake

jjinfla
10-03-2002, 05:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Vicki:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; Trashing Accu-Stats is the second most unprofessional act I've seen in pool recently

&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Okay already I'll bite

What's the first?BS [/quote

Don't go there. Let it die. Jake

bluewolf
10-03-2002, 05:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr>

Quote: Bluewolf

"I have been on Grady's end when I aired my feelings and got slammed by some. What I am hearing Grady say is that he was very hurt and wanted to have his feelings heard.Sometimes when I need to vent,even if it sounds like I am on the pity pot, I just want to be heard,my feelings validated as a friend,not necessarily my actions. "
----------------------

BW, as much as I can empathize with your layman's pluck in your battle with St. Crimi, your drippy, feely touchy pathos of late is discrediting your cause.

Just a thought, but should the intensity and passion of one's feelings, however transitory, come before FACTS, REASON, and other people's cherished feelings and REPUTATIONS?

What if others on this board just come full bore at you, with no regard to your feelings and good name, everytime they feel you are out of line. Perhaps in your world words and banterings mean very little. Should you presume likewise for the majority of the users of this forum?

<hr></blockquote>

anon,

you make some good points.when others can disagree with me that is good.i can be off the beam or just seeing one way of thinking.that is why we, here, on ccb, are good for each other.it gets me thinking and looking at things from others' points of view.

as far as the feely feeling stuff,it imo does not undermind the times i have taken a strong stance. i am not a)a cold logical, calculating person or b) waffly feely type person...i am both and more...

i follow my gut on most things and the strngth or compasion of my words often out of what in my gut feels right...doesnt mean it is...but just following my gut...

i know not many people here are like me and i need your opinions too to give me a whole perspective and i will take this whole deal here as a lesson in what this board wants or doesnt want next time i feel like i am in Grady's shoes...

thanks

bw

Tom_In_Cincy
10-03-2002, 09:42 AM
Ken..

And just how many times do you think pool players will go to a website and look for a "Press Release" from this site?

Unfair, to assume that this is a widely known subject. Its more or less a CYA.. for BilliardclubTV... a young aspiring web based company.. that is trying to build clients.

PPV wasn't even a well known event in most pool rooms across the USA

10-03-2002, 09:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


I find it shocking that so many in this industry think nothing of getting on these public forums and blowing off steam at the expense of others and the billiard industry as a whole. This is the reason that pool is a second class sport and as long as people like you continue to conduct themselves like this pool will remain a second class sport.


<hr></blockquote>

So THIS is why pool is a second class sport! All along it was "so many in this industry think nothing of getting on these public forums and blowing off steam at the expense of others and the billiard industry as a whole." Well Grady, Brady, Barry, and all you other promoters - there you have it - the reason that pool isn't as big as golf! Now get off these forums and let the players all get rich from HUGE prize funds and LOADS of endorsement money! /webbbs/images/icons/laugh.gif

rackmup
10-03-2002, 10:04 AM
Well Tom, not many I would guess but then, how many cable companies/PPV coordinators and networks would ONLY release this info to just a billiards website? I'm certain it was released to the print media and left to them to print it in their respective publications.

It's also no secret that Grady visits almost all of the billiard websites. Or does he just visit when he wants to complain about the way he is/was treated?

Don't get me wrong...I have absolutely nothing against Grady but please...there is certainly more to this than we are being told, by either party.

Regards,

Ken

Tom_In_Cincy
10-03-2002, 10:12 AM
Ken
I'm not sure that there is any more.. Accustats listed their choices for announcers.. Like it states.. In Aug.

Grady didn't know or was even told until Sept 22nd..

Besides those two facts.. what else is there to be known?

I am sure that there were contracts written between all parties because of the monies involved. This is only good business dealings.

Grady was left out because of the business decisions. Good or bad as they might be, the decision was made.

By the way.. Grady has a face for RADIO.. not for TV.. and that is a fact..

10-03-2002, 10:18 AM
The source of the press release is the people he is working with. If he were to do it there would be things to sign and agreements to be made. It is not a last minute thing. They would have to be sure you know what to say and what not to say such as mentioning brand names and so forth. Grady was never to have done it, except in his wishful mind. If he really wanted to do it he should have campaigned to get the job, that is how it is done.