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View Full Version : WI Public Union Ranks Plunge.



Sev
06-01-2012, 06:53 AM
Looks like the rats are abandoning the ship.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/.../#ixzz1wUONlQQQ (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/31/wisconsin-unions-see-ranks-drop-ahead-recall-vote/#ixzz1wUONlQQQ)

<span style='font-size: 23pt'>Wisconsin unions see ranks drop ahead of recall vote</span>

Public-employee unions in Wisconsin have experienced a dramatic drop in membership -- by more than half for the second-biggest union -- since a law championed by Republican Gov. Scott Walker sharply curtailed their ability to bargain over wages and working conditions.

Now with Mr. Walker facing a recall vote Tuesday, voters will decide whether his policies in the centrist state should continue -- or whether they have gone too far.

The election could mark a pivot point for organized labor.

Mr. Walker's ouster would derail the political career of a rising Republican star and send a warning to other elected officials who are battling unions. But a victory for the governor, who has been leading his Democratic opponent in recent polls, would amount to an endorsement of an effort to curtail public-sector unions, which have been a pillar of strength for organized labor while private-sector membership has dwindled.

That could mean the sharp losses that some Wisconsin public-worker unions have experienced is a harbinger of similar unions' future nationwide, union leaders fear. Failure to oust Mr. Walker and overturn the Wisconsin law "spells doom," said Bryan Kennedy, the American Federation of Teachers' Wisconsin president.

Wisconsin membership in the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees-the state's second-largest public-sector union after the National Education Association, which represents teachers-fell to 28,745 in February from 62,818 in March 2011, according to a person who has viewed Afscme's figures. A spokesman for Afscme declined to comment.

Gayle in MD
06-01-2012, 11:36 AM
LOL....according to an anonymous source, huh? Reported on Fux Noise?


Actually, I'm getting very worried about you Sev.

You've been crying for months now. I'm afraid you will dehydrate soon. I hope you're drinking plenty of fluids. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Oh, I mean water....you know, that stuff that is toxic, thanks to Koch borthers?

As for lil' ol' me, I can't get through tuesday alone.

It's just too much for me.

Maybe you should bring some of that good ol' upstate NY, Mountain Dew on up here, and sit on the porch with us, while we wait, or wail, over the elections results.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Sev
06-01-2012, 01:19 PM
HAHAHA!!

Dont tell Hondo you invited me up to watch the election results.
He might pass flat out on the floor and hurt himself.

How about I bring a few mason jars full of the good stuff?

Gayle in MD
06-02-2012, 11:24 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HAHAHA!!

Dont tell Hondo you invited me up to watch the election results.
He might pass flat out on the floor and hurt himself.

How about I bring a few mason jars full of the good stuff? </div></div>

My dear friend Hondo is always for everything that is positive.

G.

Qtec
06-03-2012, 01:54 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like the rats are abandoning the ship. </div></div>

By rats you obviously mean tax paying citizens?


Q

Sev
06-03-2012, 06:14 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HAHAHA!!

Dont tell Hondo you invited me up to watch the election results.
He might pass flat out on the floor and hurt himself.

How about I bring a few mason jars full of the good stuff? </div></div>

My dear friend Hondo is always for everything that is positive.

G.

</div></div>

I'm sure.
However I dont think he'd see that one coming. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Sev
06-03-2012, 06:18 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like the rats are abandoning the ship. </div></div>

By rats you obviously mean tax paying citizens?


Q </div></div>

Union thugs.

Just because you go non union does not necessarily mean they are unemployed.

By the way it looks like WI is projected to post 100 million plus surplus.

Sev
06-06-2012, 05:51 AM
Indeed it appears that given the choice between paying union dues and not. Workers are choosing to keep their money in their pockets.

Soflasnapper
06-06-2012, 10:57 AM
In the absence of the power to collectively bargain for wages and benefits, the purposes of a union are few.

Besides getting financial concessions from the unions as to wage scales, contributions to the benefit package in terms of more money paid into the pension plan by union workers, etc., what was it Scott Walker did again that was even more controversial?

Oh, yes-- I remember! Took away the unions' ability to collectively bargain. And, so...

Sev
06-06-2012, 05:42 PM
My personal opinion is that all unions in the public sector should be illegal.

It is the taxpayers and only the taxpayers that pay for their salaries and benefits. The government is not a business. Nor is it run like one. It is to easy for the elected officials to give away the tax payers money.
There is no need for unions in public sector.

The private sector is a different matter. However businesses that become to top heavy because promises they are not able to keep need to be allowed to fail.

LWW
06-06-2012, 06:44 PM
Wisconsin public unions have the right to collective bargaining on wages ... but, I know this because I have n unfair advantage in that I researched the issue instead of having the party tell me what I should believe.

Soflasnapper
06-06-2012, 06:49 PM
We were talking about the extreme drop off in public unions. The ones we are talking about do not now have any right to collective bargaining, and as I said, why would anyone want to be a member, if they cannot do that basic job?

What you interject is off topic-- he exempted fire fighters and cop unions-- FOR NOW!-- and those memberships have not suffered such a drop in membership, have they? Providing evidence that supports my earlier claim.

However, he already gave the game away in that unguarded conversation that was taped with early supporters-- divide and conquer.

By letting them slide for now, he was able to mute their part of the protests, although not entirely.

Now that there is no strength in the larger public unions, they will be next. In 3... 2... 1.

Gayle in MD
06-06-2012, 08:59 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We were talking about the extreme drop off in public unions. The ones we are talking about do not now have any right to collective bargaining, and as I said, why would anyone want to be a member, if they cannot do that basic job?

What you interject is off topic-- he exempted fire fighters and cop unions-- FOR NOW!-- and those memberships have not suffered such a drop in membership, have they? Providing evidence that supports my earlier claim.

However, he already gave the game away in that unguarded conversation that was taped with early supporters-- divide and conquer.

By letting them slide for now, he was able to mute their part of the protests, although not entirely.

Now that there is no strength in the larger public unions, they will be next. In 3... 2... 1. </div></div>

Yes, and all part of The Shock Doctrine!

"When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag, waving a cross"

Truer words were never spoken!

You are so on target! "Divide and conquer,' sooooooooo Repiglican!

BTW, ever notice the link between fascism, and men in black robes? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

LWW
06-07-2012, 08:17 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We were talking about the extreme drop off in public unions. The ones we are talking about do not now have any right to collective bargaining </div></div>

And you try so hard. (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/wisconsin-budget-would-allow-collective-bargaining-wages)

Sev
06-08-2012, 06:22 AM
Hmmmmmm.

Soflasnapper
06-08-2012, 12:05 PM
So they CAN bargain on wages, with a cap of annual increase no more than the CPI? Meaning typically, LESS than the CPI? Under 2.3 last year.

Wow, what a right! How about collective bargaining for benefits and working conditions? The piece is silent about those, and so is the official WLRB summary of 2011, here. (A pdf) (http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lrb/pubs/rb/12rb1.pdf). See page 17.

Except in the next paragraph (also page 17), it does mention that even in the supposedly exempt category of firefighters and policemen, new hires cannot bargain for changes in their pension contributions and medical plan.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The act [Act 32, modifying the main collective bargaining change Act 10] prohibits police officers and fire fighters hired on or after July 1, 2011, from bargaining over the requirement that they pay the employee share of retirement contributions and prohibits municipal police and fire fighters hired on or after July 1, 2011, from bargaining over the design and selection of their health care coverage plans.</div></div>

How much more likely it is that unions that never had any exemptions are similarly or still more unable to bargain over such things, either?

So there is a reason that Walker and Wisconsin GOPrs have not put this technical ability to bargain for wages capped at CPI (or less) forward as their alibi to say they didn't do what they did do. And why even this article (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/wisconsin-governor-officially-cuts-collective-bargaining) carried by CNS itself says:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Wisconsin Governor Officially Cuts Collective Bargaining
By Scott Bauer, Associated Press
March 11, 2011


Madison, Wis. (AP) - <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker succeeded Friday in taking away nearly all collective bargaining rights from the vast majority of the state's public employees</span></div></div>

and

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Walker had repeatedly argued that ending collective bargaining</span> would give local governments the flexibility they needed to confront the state aid cuts necessary to fix Wisconsin's deficit, which is projected to grow to $3.6 billion deficit over two years.</div></div>

Even Walker didn't describe this as leaving collective bargaining in place, nor alibi that he really didn't touch collective bargaining rights. He described it as ENDING collective bargaining rights, and that is almost entirely the case. Good for him, as denying or spinning it the other way would be a lie.

You want to say they still have them? In the same sense a quadruple amputee has a complete body, what's left of it. Here's you disagreeing: "Hey, you said they amputated the leg. That's not true! Look, there's a stump still attached to the hip. 4 inches, in fact! So they didn't amputate the leg! Stupid leftists don't understand medicine!"

You have a technically true point, and one I did not understand until you pointed out these links. So congrats! But it's a molehill of a technical difference, which does not alter the verdict in chief.

Gayle in MD
06-08-2012, 02:24 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So they CAN bargain on wages, with a cap of annual increase no more than the CPI? Meaning typically, LESS than the CPI? Under 2.3 last year.

Wow, what a right! How about collective bargaining for benefits and working conditions? The piece is silent about those, and so is the official WLRB summary of 2011, here. (A pdf) (http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lrb/pubs/rb/12rb1.pdf). See page 17.

Except in the next paragraph (also page 17), it does mention that even in the supposedly exempt category of firefighters and policemen, new hires cannot bargain for changes in their pension contributions and medical plan.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The act [Act 32, modifying the main collective bargaining change Act 10] prohibits police officers and fire fighters hired on or after July 1, 2011, from bargaining over the requirement that they pay the employee share of retirement contributions and prohibits municipal police and fire fighters hired on or after July 1, 2011, from bargaining over the design and selection of their health care coverage plans.</div></div>

How much more likely it is that unions that never had any exemptions are similarly or still more unable to bargain over such things, either?

So there is a reason that Walker and Wisconsin GOPrs have not put this technical ability to bargain for wages capped at CPI (or less) forward as their alibi to say they didn't do what they did do. And why even this article (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/wisconsin-governor-officially-cuts-collective-bargaining) carried by CNS itself says:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Wisconsin Governor Officially Cuts Collective Bargaining
By Scott Bauer, Associated Press
March 11, 2011


Madison, Wis. (AP) - <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker succeeded Friday in taking away nearly all collective bargaining rights from the vast majority of the state's public employees</span></div></div>

and

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Walker had repeatedly argued that ending collective bargaining</span> would give local governments the flexibility they needed to confront the state aid cuts necessary to fix Wisconsin's deficit, which is projected to grow to $3.6 billion deficit over two years.</div></div>

Even Walker didn't describe this as leaving collective bargaining in place, nor alibi that he really didn't touch collective bargaining rights. He described it as ENDING collective bargaining rights, and that is almost entirely the case. Good for him, as denying or spinning it the other way would be a lie.

You want to say they still have them? In the same sense a quadruple amputee has a complete body, what's left of it.

You have a technically true point, and one I did not understand until you pointed out these links. So congrats! But it's a molehill of a technical difference, which does not alter the verdict in chief.

</div></div>

Also doesn't alter any of the lies Walker told about the actual economic circumstances, what he was actually doing, and why.

He has been bought and paid for, clearly, and his risk of being put out of office, is far from over.

He is a close second to Mitsey, Boehner, McConnell, and Cantor, when it comes to flat out lying.

G.