My Horrible Gold Crown 3

[Bambu]

I would like to ask everyones opinion on a situation I am having with my table.

This thread really started in 2008, on the AZB mechanics section. Here is a link to the original post, but I will try to summarize.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=124634

To avoid problems, I bought my gold crown 3 from a dealer, Blatt billiards. I played on that table for 6 or 7 years, and in between I spoke to every mechanic I could find to come look at the problem. It played so slow, I needed to change the cloth every 2 years. Still, not one mechanic out of 5 thought there was a problem.

Thanks to our own Cornerman Fred, I found myself creating a thread about my table in the AZ mechanics section. Right away, every mechanic there said my k66 rubber didnt belong on a Gold Crown 3. The head resident expert, RealKingCobra said something like, he refused to believe Blatt would install k66 on a Gold Crown 3. So I posted up the receipt, just to make sure people knew I wasn’t making this up.

Even though it had been 7 years, I still called Blatt because I felt ripped off. I told them I had verified through several mechanics and Brunswick, that they had put the wrong rubber on my table. Surprisingly, they were really cool about it. Blatt put a new set of cushions on, their cost!

I thought I was all done, but it didnt take long for me to realize it still wasnt right. Not sure what they did to screw it up, but it played worse than it did to begin with. The rails were low in some spots, higher in others. So they sent a tech down, but all he did was insert walnut shims in various places. Yeah, it was that ugly.

I complained some more, and eventually they made me another offer. At the time, it seemed very generous. They say my rails must be warped, so they want to give me a whole new table top. Only catch is, my rails were factory new not too long ago.....so the replacement top wont look as nice. But, they say they are gonna give me the Artemus German rubber this time. I asked for K55, but they insisted on the Artemus. All I ever wanted was for my table to play like any other tournament table. It was another free job, so I said ok.

The new top they gave me was a bit shabby as compared to what I swapped for, but I was much more concerned with playability. Right away, I still wasnt impressed. Every year after, the table played progressively worse. So now I have a table that still plays like shit, and doesnt even look that nice. I feel like Blatt stole my rails too, there was no point in swapping them out. Every time I have to pay for new cloth before I should have to, it really pisses me off.

3 more years went by, and all the while I had been thinking about selling my table on craigslist. Im pricing out new tables, meeting new mechanics, about to start fresh. There was no point in letting Blatt near it again, and I didnt trust anyone else.

Next thing I know, the same guy who helped me out 3 years ago wants to come fix my table. Getting RKC to show up is like winning the lottery, the guy has an extensive waiting list. Hes in my room right now, exposing the many flaws.

I realize Blatt did alot of free work for me, but I got nothing but aggravation out of it. Plus I feel like they stole my original, newer rails.

So where do I go from here? Try complaining again, small claims court, or just let it go?

[Sid_Vicious]

Any Crown 3 should never be this much grief. I would still hammer on Blatts, for pure principal. There's nothing worse that a table, paid for with good money, that is poor. Small claims would certainly be in my threat. Trust me...small claims will not be in their monetary interest. Cheaper for then to avoid that at all costs. sid

[Rich R.]

Others may not agree but I think it is time to let it go.
Blatt has done a couple of major repairs, over the course of many years. Although they didn't fix the problem to your satisfaction, they have gone above and beyond what most dealers would do. Since no one seems to put their finger on what the problem is, I don't know how you can expect them to fix it. It would be different if you knew exactly what the problem was. If RKC finds problems and is able to fix the table, that is great. Consider yourself lucky.

I wouldn't go after Blatt for taking your rails. They took them and replaced them in an attempt to fix your problem. I think that is a no win situation in court.

I don't know much about tables but my only thought is, could there be an issue of some sort with the temp and/or the humidity in your home? It is just a thought and it is worth every penny you are paying for it so please excuse me if I am way wrong.

[Bambu]

I'm with you Sid, thanks. I still have that bad taste in my mouth.

Rich, I do know what the problem is, and I verified it with Brunswick before taking it to blatt. There are no temperature/humidity issues here. These guys put the wrong cushions on. K66 profile does not belong on a gold crown 3. If you dont use the right cushions(k55), the playfield is not an even 50 X 100". So my playfield is 100 1/2" X 50 3/8" or something close.
Not only that, but the nose height comes out slightly higher. Its enough to pinch the ball under the rubber a little, slowing it down considerably.

On top of that, the nose height is not even throughout. Theyre shaped like god dam potato chips. So I get ball hop in some spots, dead thuds in others.

I never knew why until RKC took it apart. Glen showed me how they modified the rails to bolt down to the slate with cheap metal plates. These plates bend if you overtighten them. Once that happens, the rail cannot sit flush on the slate because its no longer flat. According to RKC, this is what caused the high and low spots all around. Looking at the imprint on the cloth after removing a rail, you can see where the plates bolted to the table, 3 plates in each rail. (The plates are the only part that pulls the rail to the slate.) What happens is the plates pull down too hard on the soft poplar wood, causing low spots. In between the plates are the high spots.

So not only did they give me the wrong cushions, they modified the rails poorly. Then they tried to fix that problem, with walnut shims! After that they took my rails and gave me an identical set, played exactly the same. Is an even nose height too much to ask from a well respected dealer? (I paid over $5000.)

[Fran Crimi]

Bambu, I read over that thread on AZ that you referenced, and correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you post that you asked for the k66 cushions in the first place, thinking that they were the better cushions?

So are you saying that Blatt should not have accommodated your request?

[Bambu]

At the time Fran, I had no clue about cushion profile, nose height, etc. All I knew a little about table wise, was cloth. I wanted a fast table so bad, I even ordered simonis 760. Reading my post over again, youre right. It does look like I asked for k66 on my own. But the way it really went down, I told the owner Rick I wanted a fast table with fast cloth and fast cushions, NEW. He was the one who told me k66 was the fast type, so I only asked for it because he said it was the way to go.

According to all the AZ techs, they shouldnt have used k66....even if I asked for it on my own.

[bradb]

Bambu. Reading your post is like deja vu for me.

Several years ago I ordered my Canada Billiards 9' table 1" slate table. It's not a Gold crown but a fairly expensive table none the less. Its built very well with solid wood rails, and anchor bolts for rail support.

Like you I knew little about pool tables at the time as I had played on snooker tables for years and this was my first pool table. I specified Simonis 860 cloth, I assumed the rails would be standard as on all good tables.

After the table was installed and I played it for a while I noticed that the rails made a bit of a banging noise when the Qball was struck very hard head on. I called a friend who knows a bit about tables and he told me that the rails must be kicking the ball down a bit into the table surface after rebounding. This could be that the rails might be a tad higher than normal. I called the dealer and he said the rails were standard top quality k66 rails. So I'm still in a quandary why its doing that.

I have learned to live with it because the rails rebound true and they shouldn't be struck that hard anyway, but it is irritating, I wanted rails like other good tables have. I will replace them when I'm ready to recover and they better not bang or I'm not paying. Brad

[Bambu]

Brad, was it a reconditioned table? See if you can find out what kind of rubber came with your table originally. If it was k55, you got hosed too, bambuzelled, hornswaggled even!

[bradb]

It was a new table. I will have to take the dealers word that it was k66. The rubber is strong and it feels like k66. My receipt does'nt specify the rail type. Don't know how I could check?

[Bambu]

If it came new, its probably what they say it is. Only way to know for sure is to cut the rail cloth, but that may not even be the problem. I would want to see if other tables like it played the same, and take it from there.

[Soflasnapper]

I went through similar problems with a used GC 3, and had most of the same tactics-- changed out the rails several times, reclothed, had better table mechanics do some tweaking, etc.

I never could get it right. I finally gave up, and ponied up 5 large for a new Diamond. I am very satisfied, but still regret the couple of years of frustration and dissatisfaction with that GC.

When you've tried everything else short of replacement, maybe that's the next step. I agree with Rich that it's probably not a winning small claims case.

[Bambu]

I would have gone diamond, but they dont use those in my area. If RKCobra lives up to half of his name I'll be fine anyway. I think he will do a nice job. As far as a claim goes, I dont see why not. To be called "an effort" they would have had to have done something different than the last time. Instead, they handed me the exact same garbage work, minus my factory new rails.

The real killer is how they sent down a tech to fix the probelm using shims. Meanwhile, the low spots he tried to shim, were the only part where the rails bolted to the table. It doesnt get much dumber, you cant get a shim clean through a bolt. Then they finally had enough of me, and shut me up by doing the same thing all over again. I am willing to bet they made money on my rails, there was absolutely no reason to swap them. They were not warped as they had claimed, idiots just dont know how to build a table. Either that, or they do but just dont care(even worse).

[Soflasnapper]

If you feel strongly about that action, I'd support your taking it. I'm just offering a prediction-- one worth exactly its price. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

[Bambu]

Brad, for what its worth, RKC says any table with k66 rubber wont play the same as a brunswick type table. The faster cushions have a k55 profile, either artemus or brunswick superspeeds.