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Sev
06-23-2012, 07:08 PM
The beauty of a government run health care system.
Look carefully. This could very well happen here.
Good times.

http://www.catholic.org/internationa...y.php?id=46651
<span style='font-size: 23pt'>Unions, government corruption collapse Greek hospital system</span>

Greek health crisis is a caveat against Obamacare.

State-run Greek hospitals are failing as they start rationing vital care and medications because of a complete lack of funding. Fueled by the political crisis, the health crisis provides a look at what a state-run healthcare system could devolve into, should healthcare in the US be taken over by Obamacare.
Without food or medicine a Greek family sits outside a local hospital in despair.

Without food or medicine a Greek family sits outside a local hospital in
ATHENS, GREECE (Catholic Online) - Five years into a deep recession and crumpling under the weight of oppressive austerity measures, the Greek government has been on the verge of collapse for months. The signs of this collapse abound. They are evident in the political elections, in the protests on the streets, and the country's crumbling infrastructure. Most tragically, it's now become evident in the hospitals.

A lack of government funding has left doctors and hospitals without a way to pay their suppliers for even the most basic drugs and materials. Many doctors have made special arrangements with the drug companies to keep the most essential medicines coming into the country, but even those supplies aren't enough.

A chief complaint is that pharmacists are being strangled in the process by a nightmarish backlog of unfilled state payments. Until they are paid by the government insurers, they cannot afford to replenish their stocks. Adding to the problem, is the Greek government's insistence on using patented brand-name drugs rather than generics, which makes the drugs more expensive-and therefore harder to get in a time of austerity.

Many pharmacists have resorted to demanding payments up front for medications. Those that still allow credit have queues that can stretch outdoors.

Many patients complain that the drugs they need are lifesaving and they still cannot get them.
The Greek healthcare system was once rated as "relatively efficient" according to a report from Reuters, but many people have also had to provide "gifts" to medical staff to ensure quality care, showing the graft and corruption that can take hold in a government-managed system.

Meanwhile, medical lobbies and labor unions have orchestrated a severe backlash to government cuts, making it nearly impossible for the government to control some of their costs. Excessive bureaucracy and poor organization make the system too expensive for its own good.

Unfortunately, as it fails, it takes the lives of innocent people with it.

The same report from Reuters that credited the Greek medical system as being "relatively efficient" also reported on the repulsive sanitary conditions inside the same hospitals. Bed sheets must be reused, and other sanitary measures are cut.

Even then, many patients simply never get seen.

The crisis in Greece is an example of a government-run healthcare system managed by professional bureaucrats appointed by whatever party was in charge at the time. It is a warning against such models of care. Adding to the cautionary tale, the United States, today still a very wealthy nation, continues to spend far more money than the government takes in. Swelling deficits, gridlocked government, a divided people, and a weak economy mean that the lessons being learned in Greece should be required reading for all Americans.

Qtec
06-24-2012, 12:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">State-run Greek hospitals are failing as they start rationing vital care and medications<span style='font-size: 17pt'> because of a complete lack of funding.</span> </div></div>

ie, Nothing to do with the Greece HC system!

Q

Gayle in MD
06-24-2012, 04:02 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">State-run Greek hospitals are failing as they start rationing vital care and medications<span style='font-size: 17pt'> because of a complete lack of funding.</span> </div></div>

ie, Nothing to do with the Greece HC system!

Q </div></div>

LOL, his link? Catholic .org?

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Sev
06-24-2012, 06:10 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">State-run Greek hospitals are failing as they start rationing vital care and medications<span style='font-size: 17pt'> because of a complete lack of funding.</span> </div></div>

ie, Nothing to do with the Greece HC system!

Q </div></div>

Who funds the hospitals?

Sev
06-24-2012, 06:11 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">State-run Greek hospitals are failing as they start rationing vital care and medications<span style='font-size: 17pt'> because of a complete lack of funding.</span> </div></div>

ie, Nothing to do with the Greece HC system!

Q </div></div>

LOL, his link? Catholic .org?



/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif </div></div>

I picked it just for you. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Gayle in MD
06-24-2012, 06:58 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">State-run Greek hospitals are failing as they start rationing vital care and medications<span style='font-size: 17pt'> because of a complete lack of funding.</span> </div></div>

ie, Nothing to do with the Greece HC system!

Q </div></div>

LOL, his link? Catholic .org?



/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif </div></div>

I picked it just for you. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

</div></div>

Then you wasted your time. I don't believe anything that comes from that organization! They are known liars, and child abusers.

G.

Sev
06-24-2012, 07:01 AM
I just reeled in a big one. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Gayle in MD
06-24-2012, 07:04 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just reeled in a big one. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>

And I just went swimming past the hook.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Sev
06-24-2012, 07:32 AM
HAHHAHAHA!!

Soflasnapper
06-24-2012, 10:37 AM
The crisis in Greece is an example of a government-run healthcare system managed by professional bureaucrats appointed by whatever party was in charge at the time. It is a warning against such models of care.

Without such a governmental system of some kind (and all other industrialized countries have one), we spend more than double the per capita cost of the next most expensive health care cost country (without even covering everyone). And have mediocre to poor to execrable standing in health outcomes compared to other countries' results.

Medical costs are running amok, and even with at least double the cost of any other country proportionately, we still see double digit annual increases in cost. It is slowly strangling the country as to all other sectors of the economy, taking a larger and larger piece of gdp and governmental spending.

This is a slow motion crisis that was seen coming by Richard Nixon and Harry Truman, long ago. It was a consensus political judgment as of the early '90s, when both parties thought it was necessary (until the politics interfered with the GOP's concern for our country and economy. The evil genius idiot Bill Kristol (he who is wrong about everything) told the GOP that if the Democrats succeeded in bringing national health care/insurance reforms, they would cement another 40-year lock on the House as their SS program did before that time. He advised them to deny there was any crisis (crisis? what crisis? there is no crisis!) in order to halt the momentum toward reform, even getting Republican senators to drop their support for their own proposals).

Big Pharma and Big Insurance are feeding at the trough, and like how things are, and are willing to pay big money to buy Congress to their way of thinking. It's a parasitic situation, and we need to rein in these parasites before the host is dead.

Gayle in MD
06-24-2012, 10:42 AM
Yes, and you can bet that won't happen, as long as Repiglicans have the majority, or if Mitsey wins.

If all that you and your family will ever need is a trickle, then vote for Mitt.


/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Sev
06-24-2012, 02:30 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The crisis in Greece is an example of a government-run healthcare system managed by professional bureaucrats appointed by whatever party was in charge at the time. It is a warning against such models of care.

Without such a governmental system of some kind (and all other industrialized countries have one), we spend more than double the per capita cost of the next most expensive health care cost country (without even covering everyone). And have mediocre to poor to execrable standing in health outcomes compared to other countries' results.

Medical costs are running amok, and even with at least double the cost of any other country proportionately, we still see double digit annual increases in cost. It is slowly strangling the country as to all other sectors of the economy, taking a larger and larger piece of gdp and governmental spending.

This is a slow motion crisis that was seen coming by Richard Nixon and Harry Truman, long ago. It was a consensus political judgment as of the early '90s, when both parties thought it was necessary (until the politics interfered with the GOP's concern for our country and economy. The evil genius idiot Bill Kristol (he who is wrong about everything) told the GOP that if the Democrats succeeded in bringing national health care/insurance reforms, they would cement another 40-year lock on the House as their SS program did before that time. He advised them to deny there was any crisis (crisis? what crisis? there is no crisis!) in order to halt the momentum toward reform, even getting Republican senators to drop their support for their own proposals).

Big Pharma and Big Insurance are feeding at the trough, and like how things are, and are willing to pay big money to buy Congress to their way of thinking. It's a parasitic situation, and we need to rein in these parasites before the host is dead. </div></div>

Better to have a free market healthcare system with a limited government safety net than than have the entire healthcare system tied to government bureaucrats.

Big pharma pushes out mostly poison. The future is nutrition, prevention and natural medicines.
Doctors by enlarge are not taught any of this and are using drugs to treat symptoms rather than tracking down the cause. The end result more medical complications.

Sorry I disagree completely with you on the quality of our medical outcomes. World comparisons never compare apples to apples and are geared towards demonizing the USA.

There are many ways to bring medical costs down. Tort reform and disbarring lawyers that peruse frivolous law suites is one way.
Competition across state lines.
No taxation on medical equipment and medicines.

Knock big pharma down like they did Ma Bell. Antitrust suites.
Make the FDA recognize sources of natural cures.