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heater451
10-03-2002, 05:25 PM
I know of one hall here in the Atlanta area that hosts a "9-ball challenge" table, I believe on both Fri/Sat nights. Provided that there's a minimum of four players to 'start-up' the table, it's a $10 buy-in, hold the table as long as you can.

The 'local' American Pie nightclub/bar has three 7-foot, drop-pocket tables, which become challenge (8-ball) tables on Fri/Sat night. It's $2 a challenge, with a "rack-girl" who collects and holds the only triangle. It's usually singles on one table, and doubles on the other two, until about 9 or 10pm. Then, the following hour it becomes two singles tables, and one for doubles. Another hour in, all three are normally singles format--of course, this is all clientele dependent, to a degree.

I recall that Yankee Doodles, on the 3rd St Promenade in Santa Monica, had a 9-ball challenge table, that was 4 bucks a pop, back in the mid '90s.

QUESTION 1: Are challenge tables a norm, in other areas?

QUESTION 2: Why/why not?

They would seem to me to be a decent money-making proposition. If the place is busy, I would think that a challenge table would have a fairly steady line of individual players, who would want to play. (Note: these would be more "pride" players, than the money-hungry, since it's usually a race to 1 or 3.)

QUESTION 3: Do YOU find the challenge setup desirable?


I am not considering bars with coin-op tables as "Challenge" tables, as that is their normal state of operation.



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10-03-2002, 06:26 PM
How does the house make money off this? You said it is a money maker.

heater451
10-03-2002, 07:53 PM
If the table turnover is quick, then the challenge fee is coming in at a fairly steady rate. The money isn't a bet that the player wins back, it's the fee to get on the table.

The only 'big' payoff for the player is in pride/ego. The longer a person holds the table, the better he/she looks as a player. It's a "King of the Hill" thing. On the back side, the longer a player holds the table, the less s/he is paying per game/hour (generally).

Plus, if you are charging 2 to 4 dollars, it's probably going to be all cash--not that an owner would be so unscrupulous as to not claim it as income. . . .

Doing the math, one might argue that, if an average 9-ball game runs 20-30 minutes, then the house would only get (at $4 a game) $8-12/hr--going rate. However, the kicker here is that many people who would not want to pay an hourly fee will usually buy into the lower fee--even though they may wind up paying more if they keep losing! The hook is, when someone plays for/on ego, they keep going back for more, after a loss.

Oh yeah, add in alcohol, and you've got an even greater chance of "repeat business". . . .

(Now that I think about the numbers, I am taking "$8-12/hr" from what I see on Fri/Sat night--You could call it the "Weekend Gouge", in places that charge less during less busy hours.)




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Eric.
10-04-2002, 08:18 AM
I haven't seen much of that around the NJ/NYC area. Not a bad idea though. Around here, that is pretty much a bar table thing.

Heater, I'll be in Atlanta on 10/22, care to shoot some?

Eric

10-04-2002, 08:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: heater451:</font><hr>Doing the math, one might argue that, if an average 9-ball game runs 20-30 minutes, then the house would only get (at $4 a game) $8-12/hr--going rate. === <hr></blockquote>

9-ball at 20-30 min??? rejiggle the math to 3-6min per game. that's more likely.

dan

Wally_in_Cincy
10-04-2002, 09:36 AM
I think he meant to say "set" instead of "game"(race to 3)

heater451
10-04-2002, 02:04 PM
I was trying to find a believable maximum, to equal the hourly rate. If the challenge were for 1 game (race to 1 match), then the money should move even faster. If the match were 'race to 3', which would seem more reasonable, then I'm glad you brought it up. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif


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10-04-2002, 08:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: heater451:</font><hr> I know of one hall here in the Atlanta area that hosts a "9-ball challenge" table, I believe on both Fri/Sat nights. Provided that there's a minimum of four players to 'start-up' the table, it's a $10 buy-in, hold the table as long as you can.

The 'local' American Pie nightclub/bar has three 7-foot, drop-pocket tables, which become challenge (8-ball) tables on Fri/Sat night. It's $2 a challenge, with a "rack-girl" who collects and holds the only triangle. It's usually singles on one table, and doubles on the other two, until about 9 or 10pm. Then, the following hour it becomes two singles tables, and one for doubles. Another hour in, all three are normally singles format--of course, this is all clientele dependent, to a degree.

I recall that Yankee Doodles, on the 3rd St Promenade in Santa Monica, had a 9-ball challenge table, that was 4 bucks a pop, back in the mid '90s.

QUESTION 1: Are challenge tables a norm, in other areas?

QUESTION 2: Why/why not?

They would seem to me to be a decent money-making proposition. If the place is busy, I would think that a challenge table would have a fairly steady line of individual players, who would want to play. (Note: these would be more "pride" players, than the money-hungry, since it's usually a race to 1 or 3.)

QUESTION 3: Do YOU find the challenge setup desirable?


I am not considering bars with coin-op tables as "Challenge" tables, as that is their normal state of operation.



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We have that around here.. basically, if you put in .50 cents to win the table, then you don't have to pay anymore untill you lose!! It's great, and saves me alot of money! /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif j/k

Actually, I think the challenge table is a great idea, and a great way for a semi-skilled player to make some money here and there, while giving everyone a chance to play their best, and also a place where good players know they can go to find a good game, or make some money. I went everywhere tonight trying to find any decent players in my town, and the neiboring towns, and I'd have to take the ferry to Seattle to find any good players that I could learn from. My guess is, set up a challenge table(s), and you'll have great players talking about your bar in a matter of weeks or months.. however, perhaps if you get a pro in there, it would be good to set up a win limit.. such as 10 games or something. Just an idea.