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10-04-2002, 08:30 AM
I will be getting delivery of a new pool table the end of this month. I asked the supplier how much an upgrade to Simonis cloth would cost-$200. He said I don't really want this because it speeds up the roll of the ball too much. Any input on this regarding price and his advice. Thanks.

John

10-04-2002, 08:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: pooljba:</font><hr> I will be getting delivery of a new pool table the end of this month. I asked the supplier how much an upgrade to Simonis cloth would cost-$200. He said I don't really want this because it speeds up the roll of the ball too much. Any input on this regarding price and his advice. Thanks.

John <hr></blockquote>

i would be a bit worried about that dealer.

the price is high compared to what i've seen. $100.00 upcharge seems to be more normal around here. these days, almost all major tournies and serious rooms use simonis-type cloth only. yes, it is faster (that's the idea) and it usually lasts longer. also, the table mechanic needs to be pretty careful about installation. it's got to be tight, tight, tight and it's got to be pulled evenly. something of an art to that. talk to his table mechanic and try to find out if he has done much simonis.

dan

Chris Cass
10-04-2002, 09:01 AM
Hi Pooljba,

If you get the 860 Simonis, it'll slow down after it settles in. The cost doesn't seem outrageous for Simonis but you can get Championship 2000 Tournament cloth too. It's their version of Simonis and lasts a little longer. It's equally as fast and costs much less.

I don't think your going too fast. Most of the people at these places that sell these tables, don't even play pool. Play with the cloth you choose. I would do the exact same thing. Besides, a faster cloth will develope your touch a little better than trying to bang a ball to get where your going. IMO I think your doing the right thing. Home tables don't get the play the ph tables get so, the cost will be spread over about 2 years.

A good idea for you would be to video tape the table mechanics as they install the cloth. The rails are the most important thing to watch being done. Later you can buy the cloth through someone cheaper and do the job yourself and a friend, to help stretch it. JAT They also have sites on the net that will show you how to do it yourself. Personally, I think you'll have to watch them doing it. It's give you a good idea of the tension used to stretch that baby.

Regards,

C.C.~~envy you

10-04-2002, 11:31 AM
Actually, $200 is about right, at least from my experience with Simonis 760. I've never tried 860 because I like the speed of 760, but watch out if you're practicing large massÚs. The heavy spinning really burns the threads of the cloth. Jumping the ball isn't much better. The marks are there to stay.

Installation? Tight, tight, tight is certainly right ... and even tighter. I don't know if most owners consider this, but since the cloth tightens up in the winter, at least in a climate like Colorado's, it's best to have it installed in the summer. The other way around and you'll have it loosen up on you in the rainy season.

Bob

10-04-2002, 11:57 AM
Stick with your original plan for Simonis, but I really can't imagine a knowlegable dealer saying that. Anyone who knows pool should appreciate your desire for quality cloth.

For me, this would seriously question the knowledge of the dealer and his table mechanics.

I have had two tables installed. On the first one, I found out the hard way that all installers are NOT created equal. A poor installation can turn a great table into unplayable mess.

10-04-2002, 11:15 PM
H. Dan is right on. The "upgrade" should be more like $100.

And, if you're going to play tournaments, other than on bar tables, better to practice on the same cloth used there.

RED (Hi Dan. Long time, no see.)

10-05-2002, 12:33 AM
Reading the original post, it says the ugrade to Simonis would be $200, not $200 more. But it's hard to know exactly what John meant. So that there is no more confusion, the total cost for Simonis is around $200, or a $100 upgrade from the cloth John is considering, well worth the extra bucks in my opinion.

Bob

10-05-2002, 01:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> H. Dan is right on. The "upgrade" should be more like $100.

And, if you're going to play tournaments, other than on bar tables, better to practice on the same cloth used there.

RED (Hi Dan. Long time, no see.) <hr></blockquote>

i gotta get back to vegas. all my pals are in bar table leagues where they are clumped-up and guranteed a trip. never knew there was that much bar table action out there. and that's, often as not, where the money is. i'm ready, i think, to start looking for a good bar table league here. well see.

hang in there red. and simonis is good cloth.

dan...stayed on subject, thead-wise.

10-05-2002, 07:45 AM
Dealers have to buy cloth in bolts so if there aren't a lot of requests for 860 Simonis the bolt will sit there. That sounds like why the dealer is trying to talk you out of it. the upgrade of $200 is not unusual. I've seen it as high as $300 extra. No kidding. If you can get it at an upgrade of $100, you got yourself a bargain.

10-05-2002, 07:54 AM
Bob,

In response to your post, the dealer said $200 for the upgrade not $100. So,out of pocket,no pun intended, it would be $200. Thanks.

John

10-05-2002, 12:02 PM
Hi John,

I had a similar experience with a dealer in 1989. He said it would cost "$200 to 'upgrade' to Simonis 760." I replied, "Gee, $300 is a lot for cloth. Is it worth it?" To which he said, "No, that's $200 total."

You always have to clarify it with some dealers ... and it is worth it, whether you choose 760 or 860.

Now, for you others out there. I was recently told that Mali plays like Simonis 760 but lasts like 860, and it's cheaper too. Is this true or just hogwash?

All the best,
Bob

P.S. This is an edited post, I confused Granito for Mali

10-05-2002, 08:24 PM
John,

If you're still reading this, I was around to a few billiard dealers this afternoon. The price of Simonis, at lease in the Colorado market, has sure gone up. For Simonis 760 the price is $275 and the 860 is $290. Another dealer quoted me $300 for the 860.

Also, it appears that 860 is now all the rage; 760 is out. I was also told that 860 plays nearly as fast as 760. Could be. And being thicker it's guaranteed to last longer.

Another dealer says the 100 percent wool Mali is as good as Simonis, but I really wonder. He also said it was cheaper, but I forgot to ask the price.

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Bob