View Full Version : "Pool players revenge"

03-03-2002, 09:30 PM
I just played on the Diamond Smart 7" coin-op tables. There were 42 of these gems set-up. I don't know how they reproduce the 9 footer game down to this size table but they did it and it was wonderful. The reason I titled this post 'revenge' is that now those a$$holes that forced us pool players to play on the Crap Valley tables will pay for taking us for granted. It may take some time but these 'Smart' tables will be used more and more till the
Valley table will only a bad memory. When you first play on them you will be amazed for awhile and then you will bend over the table and slow roll the cue ball the length of the table for a nice safety and just smile /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

03-03-2002, 10:10 PM
Hey cheese,
As mentioned earlier in a post, The smarts are going to have a buy option, and not a rent only option before they become the norm. PLEASE Diamond sell these gems.

03-03-2002, 11:11 PM
Word was that the home model was going to be $3000 and the coin-op table would set you back $5500. Just a small side bar: They had four valleys in a side room and when the match scheduals would start to run behind they would announce that any teams wishing too could start there matches on the Valleys; no takers /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

03-03-2002, 11:31 PM
I hope that is true. Wouldn't hurt my feelings to see Valley go via Enron.

Chris Cass
03-04-2002, 12:45 AM
Hi Miss Cheese,
Thanks for the graphic address. I heard the Diamond Bar Box goes for $3500. you might have that backwards? I too think these Smart Boxes played like 9fts. I know the MN casino tourney's have them. They'll be at Jackpot Junction at the end of this mth.
Scratch, scratch,

03-04-2002, 02:33 AM
Yes well I can tell you cheese, that c/b that valley uses is a peice of crap. You never know what direction its going to go. I don't play any leagues and fortunately do not spend all that much time on the bar box. You would think that after all these years they would have come up with a solution. About 1 out of 10 valley caged balls rolls straight and thats being kind.
When I had the pool room we used red circles for our tournaments and some league play. We opened the tables and
charged a green fee. I thought people should have the best playing conditions that I could provide. In Vegas and other
venues they still have that dam valley ball, not to mention paying a buck a game. What a rip. I hope Diamond does well.

03-04-2002, 03:13 AM
All I can say is I am very, very happy I logged on tonight. I've been dealing with pro pool players for quite a number of years and often felt as though the work I've been doing, trying to turn pool from a "game" to a true "Sport" hasn't been appreciated or noticed the way I wanted. Maybe the real answer is I didn't have the advantage of a chat room to find out what pool players really think. I'm new to chat rooms and even the computer itself. I'm checking out these chat rooms because I was told alot of amature pool players (league players) may not care about the conditions they play under such as lighting, balls, pocket size, cloth speed, levelness of slate etc., and that pool for them was mostly a way to socialize with the game taking second stage. I hope that is not entirely correct and from reading these previous statements somone cares at least about the levelness of the table and their ability to slow roll a ball! What I'm trying to accomplish is to "Bridge the gap between the amateur and professional players." In my opinion, for any sport to become successful it needs the backing of its amateurs. One must be an amateur before going pro! Pool lacks an amature basis playing what I call "Real Pool". I'm not trying to hurt anyones feelings, but I don't consider bar tables as they exist today pool tables. I'm not trying to down bar pool, only recognize that it has become a very popular game and has't become all it could be. Coin operated tables did the best they could at the time, for they had to deal with a method of returning the cue ball after a scratch. They accomplished this over the years in a number of ways, all dealing with physical changes, bigger, heavier, metal plug etc.,which in my opinion, alter play. I feel real pool was meant to be played with a real unaltered cue ball. I would not have entered this market without accomplishing this ability. Optical Density Sensor! People have asked me to retro-fit their old tables and even though I could make alot of money doing this, I feel there or other changes that need to be made. A 7'coin operated table should have the same playability as an 8' or 9'pool table. A comparison I'd like to make is I play golf, not very well, and I play from the white tees instead of the gold tees ,but I'm still playing real golf. I use the same balls, clubs, and sometimes even play on the same courses the pros play, only I play from a shorter distance, like the shorter distance of a 7' pool table. I hope you see my comparison. Golf is successful in my opinion at least partially because of the number of amateurs playing real golf. They have a strong foundation which to build on, just what pool needs!! I'm not going to be able to achieve my goal by myself. Even though I believe in my heart, "All coin ops will be replaced with a table that uses a regular cue ball and has the playability of the best pool tables", the question remains how long will it take. The answer now relys on educating the amateur players. For they may or maynot realize the power they have. They influence the location they play in and deserve to play under the best conditions possible. I'm not leading up to thinking I can supply all the tables needed to achieve my goals, only I need the help of many people including other manufactures to make my dream come true. Infact, I,m shipping a table to Valley and setting up a meeting with the owners of Valley trying to find a way to make this needed transition to a regular cue ball and better conditions a reality in my life time. A company like that, along with Diamond, could help reach the numer of locations faster and have a much greater positive impact on all POOL!!! Sorry this was so long, got carried away.

03-04-2002, 05:52 AM
Thanks cheesemouse for your comments. I messed up and responded earlier at 4:13 this morning on 03/04/02 Now I realize how this chalk board works I won't make that mistake again. Anyway I hope you read my comments earlier replying to TheShot. My thanks to all that commented on your thread. It gave me a chance to voice some things on my mind! Try not to be too hard on Valley, after all they served their purposs quite well for a very long time. My only regret is changes like the cue ball and level tables didn't happen earlier in my life. No telling where pro pool might be now if a solid foundation had been laid where amateur players could have made the transition to real pool and been able to slow roll balls and learn the finer points of cue ball control, not just focusing on shooting hard and not getting hooked. Anyway, no sence crying over spilt milk. The opportunity still exists now, more than ever before. The number of amateurs playing is still astounding and if they are educated and care, All Pool will take off. Possibly funding my goal of an Organized Professional and Amateur Tour!! Again thanks! Can't believe its this late in the morning-won't be at the plant early today!

Rich R.
03-04-2002, 08:20 AM
Good luck in your endeavors, Greg. I am no championship caliber player, but I have avoided bar boxes for years for all the reasons mentioned in this thread. This is no knock on bar players, just my personal choice. Although my leagues play on 9' tables, if we progress in the playoffs, sooner or later, we must play on bar boxes. It would be very nice to play on tables that played the same as a 9' table.

Just a word of computer education. This is a message board, not a chat room. Keep coming back and you'll figure out the difference. It didn't take me long. LOL. Rich R.

03-04-2002, 09:18 AM
Hi Greg,
I haven't had a chance to play on one of your Smart Tables but if it's anything like the Diamond Pro, and people say it is, then the pool world will be grateful. I got a new Pro from you in September and it is just fantastic! I've been telling everyone who will listen what a great product you are putting out and I know I sold at least one other one for you by running my mouth. Quality deserves to be recognized and the Diamond Pro is absolutely a fantastic table to play on because it plays fair, tough...but fair.

Thanks for makeing such a great product at an affordable price.

Regards, JimS.

03-04-2002, 10:09 AM
"I just played on the Diamond Smart 7" coin-op tables."

A seven inch table! Wow, it must be really tough to play shape on that baby! :-)

Chris Cass
03-04-2002, 10:22 AM
I love playing on the 9ft but pool in my opinion would be better off playing on the same tables and the same condition would be great. The regulation B.B. court, Baseball diamond, or Bowling lanes have this but not in our sport, No they make it tough as can be for me.
Seriously, they starting puting tables in bars to attract patrons and the size to fit the location. Leagues to get more patrons and then rules to boot.
The bar box is the short game and the 9ft for the long game. It mainly depends on your skills and demographic location. I have nothing but bar box action or tourney's in my area. The majority of amatures mostly prefer the bar box. It's easy to make balls and that's what they like. I don't care for these bar boxes and I like the 9ft for playing mostly. Although I'm an amature, I would rather play on 9fts. Most of the people on this site would probably agree.

03-04-2002, 10:55 AM
I think the cost would almost be prohibitive to most vendors. If you figure the larger vendors own thousands of tables. The difference between $700. and maybe $2500. per table wholesale, I don't think we are going to see to many of these tables anytime soon in the local taverns. While I am on the subject, as a former poolroom owner. I could never figure why a bar owner would not own their own tables. Why split with the vendor. For the small investment, a good table will provide many years of service. Now with the new smart table, that your vendor is never going to offer. There is even more reason to own your own.

03-04-2002, 05:44 PM
To Q-guy -- I'll have to agree with you it might be a tough sale to work with the vendors. The truth of the matter it just costs more to make a table with sensors to detect a regular cue ball and make the table play like a pool room table. I hope the production costs go down with increased sales. As to your comment on local taverns owning their own table, to me it's a no brainer. However, I'm finding out that in some areas in the country vendors are very strong and say they will take out their other machines if the owner tries to purchase his own table. I've even heard of vendors loaning money or issuing contracs to keep their locations. I really can't blame them they are only protecting their business. However, the general trend across the country seems to be changing to owner operated. This makes much more sense to me and probably will help my business get a faster start. But still I think there should be a way to work with a vender. They are definitely used to spending large amounts of money on golf games, mega-touch,etc. and are required to purchase updates frequently. I still feel the real POWER of determining what table is used in a tavern,especially a league bar, rests in the hands of the customers (pool players). After all, the players drink the drinks, eat the food, and put the money in their tables. The bar owner must keep his customers content. Same as the Vendor must take care of his bar owner or take a chance loosing their business to somone who does care. If you think of how many times over the bar table has payed for its self, the cost of the origionl investment seems small. Especially with how long these tables last. The main thing I feel I've accomplished is created a reason for that replacement; use of a regular cue ball. However thats not the only reason or I could just retro-fit an existing table with a sensor. I think it's time for a complete replacement and hope I can work with other manufactures in accomplishing this goal. I'm going thru a learning stage, finding out how much pool players care about their playing conditions and I realize I must let the players know they NOW have options and someone who will at least listen to their needs and desires. Play real Pool!!!

03-04-2002, 06:44 PM
Let me see if my memory is any good. Didn't you used to go on the road with a guy named Charlie. I think I played him a few times and I remember you with jewelry. I even bought a piece. Are you the same guy? I was sometimes with Sugershack Johnny, or a guy called Three fingered Ronnie at that time, do you remember them?

03-04-2002, 07:36 PM
It never ceases to amaze me on how small the pool world actually is - You've got the right guy. Only alot older and probably not as good of a memory as you. But I definitely remember Three fingered Ronnie, not sure about Johnny. Anyway Charlie is doing great as a full blown attorney if you can believe that! I still have all the dyes for the pool jewelry and can't believe I'm making pool tables now. Sure miss the old road days. I guess if you can't draw your ball well enough you have to go to work-at least I'm sill around the game I love. Anyway, nice to be remembered and hear from you. I put on an Annual tournament "The Derby City Classic" January 3rd thru 12th 2003. Lots of action! If you can make it please look me up. Thanks, Greg Sullivan

03-04-2002, 10:32 PM
For fear of sounding like a drum pounder I will refrain from telling all how great your little box really is but I can't resist this little short story.
The first game I played on the Diamond coin-op I put my coins in the slots and pushed in and my first reaction was I just got robbed because the coin mechanism was so smooth and effortless plus I couldn't hear the balls drop( I am a little hard of hearing though). I soon realized everything was OK and I could rack the balls. Once I found where the rack was located out comes the best wood rack I have ever had in my hands, that's when I realized that you guys went whole hog and put together a total serious pool playing package. I played four days and not once did this equiptment screw me. Every table played the same and when I hit a poor shot I knew it was my poor play not poor equiptment. Bottom line is it is the first time I have played in a bar/box tourney and on the drive home didn't rag about the tables instead ballhoo-ed there praise.
I guess it isn't hard to tell that I am in your 'yes' column.
Greg your correct about vendors playing hardball in some areas.

03-04-2002, 10:34 PM
Rich, Thanks for your response. It would help me very much if you would tell me the difference between a message board and a chat room. I have my own idea, but would appreciate yours. Maybe I'm in the wrong place or could be directed somewhere better suited to voicing my opinions or answering questions that may be of some benifit to someone. Also could I have sent a private message to you by typing in Rich R. when I logged in, and then you would have received it as a private message instead of a posted reply? Maybe a silly question.

03-04-2002, 11:29 PM
Hi Greg,

Pardon me for butting in here but yes, you can send an email or a private message to anyone registered here.

As you are reading their post just click on their name and you will go to a page that enables you to send them a private message. I'm going to send you one now as an example and you'll see that there will be a flashing envelope at the top of the page as you are reading posts etc. Click on the envelope and you'll go to the message.

I think...I've got it right. I'm pretty dumb about computers.

Regards, JimS~~~loves his Diamond Pro!

03-05-2002, 02:29 AM
I have no idea what his point is. The difference is a chat room is real time, a message board has to be refreshed to see and new messages. On a chat room you can carry on a conversation. This is really great to have access to people in the industry like you, through a forum like this. I hope you stay around.

Rich R.
03-05-2002, 07:42 AM
Greg, I'm not that familiar with chat rooms, but the way I understand it, in a chat room you carry on a conversation, via computer, with one or more people and you are all online at the same time.
On the message boards, it is similar, but you post a message and then whoever reads it, at what ever time, can respond. Not everybody is on line at the same time. It is more like posting a message on a bulliten board for everyone to read.
As far as pool, you are in THE best place to share information. You will find on this message board, there are players from the beginner to the professional and all phases in between. There are also writers, cue makers and manufacturers of pool related items. Sorry if I left any one out. You will not find a better forum.
I have just learned of the private messages and I can only tell you that you could have sent me one, but posting your question publicly will allow others to help give you a better response than I am capable of doing. I hope this helped. Rich R.~~~there are no silly questions, only silly answers.

03-05-2002, 11:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Greg/Diamond:</font><hr> I still have all the dyes for the pool jewelry and can't believe I'm making pool tables now. <hr></blockquote>

Hi Greg,

So are you making and/or selling pool jewelry? I don't see much in the way of pool jewelry. Do you have pictures on a web site somewhere?

03-05-2002, 12:11 PM
If he doesn't I still have a brochure of his I can email you. It is really nice stuff.

03-05-2002, 02:04 PM
you are in THE best place to share information. You will find on this message board,

jim, well put but with one tiny little exception. due to recent events this is now "one of" the best boards in terms of traffic and content. the more the merrier.


03-05-2002, 03:48 PM
Are you talking about jewelry to wear? Go to www.kcinnovations.com-picked (http://www.kcinnovations.com-picked) up an awesome solid gold bracelet made up of pool tables-about 12-each with the rack and cueball in cut diamonds!
Good luck!

03-05-2002, 11:31 PM
Now I don't have a website, but I should have. However I have been talking to my daughter and wife about starting the business up again. I didn't have the advantages of the internet back then. I'm just way to busy with tables and tournaments to handle the business properly by myself. If you think you may be interested I'll try and find an old brochure and see if you find something you like. I've years invested in carvings that I'm very proud of so you may be responsible for getting me started again, if my family helps! You can E mail me at greg1849@Aol.com - When you get the brochure or a copy of one remember this brochure was made around 1975 and I'll have to check and see if the jewelry can still be made for the prices listed in the brochure. I don't really think the price of gold or silver has changed much, but the labor costs may have risen slightly.

03-05-2002, 11:47 PM
Talk about luck! I must be living right. You really are saving me from some digging. I'd be honored to take you up on your offer, buy the way could I get a copy for myself, incase I can't find one myself. If your origional is in good shape maybe I should try and get the origional from you and make copies. It's amazing to find somone with an old brochure, by the way thanks for the complement. I owe you a favor. Look me up at a tournament, trade show, or if you're in the Louisville, Ky. area call me 812-945-2891. thanks, Greg

03-06-2002, 09:19 AM
It took some time but I found it. I have hundreds of thousands of pool related things. Pictures, articles, autographs, brochures. Some of the stuff in the Billiard Encyclopedia came from me. I will send you the brochure. It is in pretty good condition.

03-06-2002, 12:09 PM
Thanks very much, Q-Guy, for going to the trouble of finding it. The jewelry is very nice. There are a couple of pieces I really like.