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LWW
07-20-2012, 03:23 AM
Armed gunman oen fire at BATMAN opening.

Ten to twenty dead, thirty to forty wounded.

One gunman arrested.

Tear gas and body armor used by shooters.

Bomb squad investigating possible car bmbs in parking lot.

As with instances such as this much is unknown and early reports are dodgy.

cushioncrawler
07-20-2012, 04:04 AM
Dunno the details, but i am thinking.
Probly not a she, probly not an atheist, probly not a socialist, probly had a gun, probly a member of NRA, probly a GOP voter.

Why.
Marriage breakup. Loss of job. Loss of farm.

Didnt suicide.
Probly a Christian. Possibly afrikan american (nah, i would hav heard).
mac.
Just thinking.

cushioncrawler
07-20-2012, 04:13 AM
Profiling some more.
Probly didnt like red wine (probly liked beer).
Might be a student (ie college or uni).
Probly didnt play any sport (and probly didnt even like following any sport).
Probly not a fisherman (and probly not even a shooter).
Probly woznt poor, nor rich (ie probly not poor or rich).
Probly didnt hav any medical problem (ie perfikt health).
mac.

cushioncrawler
07-20-2012, 04:20 AM
Probly didnt own a cue.
Probly woz on facebook.
Probly didnt hav any friends in prizon.
Probly didnt hav any relativs in the policeforce.
Probly not Polish.
mac.

cushioncrawler
07-20-2012, 04:22 AM
Must be getting warm. I can allmost smell him now.
mac.

Sev
07-20-2012, 02:32 PM
He also claimed to be the Joker and apparently dyed his hair.

http://sg.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout...-160848135.html (http://sg.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/suspect-neuroscience-phd-student-photo-released-160848135.html)

<span style='font-size: 23pt'>Colorado theater shooting suspect was neuroscience Ph.D. student (PHOTO)</span>

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/sjk7RNL0Ju1m7nNPTEbdIw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTMxMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/thelookout/james-holmes-aurora-suspect.jpg

Colorado shooting suspect James Holmes was in the process of withdrawing from a doctorate program in neuroscience at the University of Colorado Denver, according to university spokesman Dan Myers. Holmes began the program last year.

This photo, obtained by Reuters, reportedly shows the 24-year-old Holmes. Aurora Police Chief Dan Oates said Holmes' apartment is booby-trapped with a "sophisticated" maze of flammable devices. It could take hours or days for authorities to disarm it. Five nearby buildings have been evacuated. Oates said Holmes had no criminal record in the state.

Holmes' family, who live in San Diego, released a statement expressing their sadness for the victims and asking for privacy. Holmes is suspected of walking into an Aurora theater's midnight showing of "The Dark Knight Rises" wearing a gas mask and bulletproof vest and shooting at least 54 people. Twelve are reported dead.

Soflasnapper
07-20-2012, 03:50 PM
Fairly smart, and fairly (or a lot more) sick.

The human condition includes many pitiful specimens.

It pains me to say this, but he should have committed suicide rather than what he is alleged to have done.

cushioncrawler
07-20-2012, 07:01 PM
I allways wonder why so many mass-shooters did what they did.
If someone iz angry then u would expekt them to be angry with someone(s).
If angry with someone(s) then u would think that they would shoot someone(s), not just anyone(s).

How kum a lot more bosses aint shot. Or CEO's. Or politicians.
How kum shoppers are shot, or moovie-goers, or other students.

Mass-shooters are sort of irrational i reckon. They shood shoot much more rationally.
mac.

Sev
07-20-2012, 07:32 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fairly smart, and fairly (or a lot more) sick.

The human condition includes many pitiful specimens.

It pains me to say this, but he should have committed suicide rather than what he is alleged to have done. </div></div>

It will be interesting to see what this guys true story is.

The media tossing crap in all directions so its going to take time to get to the truth.

Soflasnapper
07-21-2012, 09:03 AM
True dat.

I always suspect incidents like this of being sponsored to foster more and more police state behavior which the public then accepts.

If a Michael Chertoff gets the contract for movie theater full body scanners like he did at the airports, I'm going to be absolutely sure of it.

See, it's partially for a police state, and probably just as much, to profit hugely from a police state's infrastructure "needs."

I'm against a police state, even if it's good business for a few.

Sev
07-21-2012, 05:59 PM
Once the media finds out they cant pin anything on right I suspect the story will quickly disappear.
It will return for the trial. However that will be speedy and end with the death penalty.

llotter
07-21-2012, 06:29 PM
These mass murders are a consequence of the left's ideology, plain and simple. Since their fundamental belief system rejects any transcendent moral authority, such as the Judeo/Christian God that supplied the foundation for Western Civilization, that vacuum is left for everyone to fill as they please, or ever worse, majority rule. The Joker's moral scheme, free of that abhorrent traditional anchor, has an preferred place at the judge's bench when evaluating right from wrong.

DiabloViejo
07-21-2012, 07:57 PM
You are totally bereft of even the slightest shred of shame. Have you no sense of decency whatsoever? Twelve innocent human beings are dead and fifty others wounded and you take that as an opportunity to promote your vulgar political ideology? You disgust me.

Soflasnapper
07-21-2012, 09:36 PM
I think it's a fair point that for some, if there is no God, there is no morality. That's not true for all irreligious persons, however, and I think most of them follow societal norms that amount to moral behavior in typical situations.

It's also a fair point that many religious persons are motivated to do violent acts by their very religion.

So I don't think the case is so clear. There are good people who are irreligious, and bad people who claim to be religious (as well as the reverse).

One saying has it that to get an evil person to do evil acts requires nothing-- that's what they do, after all. But, the saying continues, to get good people to do evil things requires religion. And sadly there are many examples of that to point to, to show there is some truth to that.

LWW
07-22-2012, 05:04 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think it's a fair point that for some, if there is no God, there is no morality. That's not true for all irreligious persons, however, and I think most of them follow societal norms that amount to moral behavior in typical situations.
</div></div>

I think that sums it up.

Some people believe things are right or wrong in the abolute because a Creatot's code says so.

Some people believe that absent a creator there is no absolute right or wrong. I supect te shooter is in this category.

The truly dangerous, however, are those who believe that ... absent a Creator ... absolute right or wrong is whatever the state deems it to be.

Soflasnapper
07-22-2012, 09:01 AM
The truly dangerous, however, are those who believe that ... absent a Creator ... absolute right or wrong is whatever the state deems it to be.

It's true that secularists who take the state as a religion, so to speak, can be dangerous. Oddly, this can be hyper-patriotism (some would think that a good trait), and guys like our special forces and snipers who take the chain of command's killing orders do not generally ask a lot of moral questions of these orders, or in any way seek assurance that these are righteous acts. We generally honor such people, so long as they work for our side.

On the religiously motivated side, we find the jihadis and abortionist bombers and killers, for two examples. We are told the jihadis are the gravest threat, and then there's James Kopp, ironically held up as a martyr and true hero by llotter who complains about the supposed leftist immorality. So I'm not so sure.

LWW
07-22-2012, 09:12 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">guys like our special forces and snipers who take the chain of command's killing orders do not generally ask a lot of moral questions of these orders, or in any way seek assurance that these are righteous acts.</div></div>

Why o you pontificate on things which you know nothing about?

Soflasnapper
07-22-2012, 11:17 AM
Why o you pontificate on things which you know nothing about?

Why do you perform such roundabout criticisms?

Why not simply state your objection?

Please tell me of all the special forces and snipers who demand proof, or some evidence, or even the slightest details of those they are tasked with killing, and who, when dissatisfied with the answers they received (or were refused answers upon request) then refused what they assumed were unlawful orders.

Surely, if there were any of these, they would swiftly be EX-special forces, or EX-snipers.

Isn't that exactly right?

LWW
07-22-2012, 12:23 PM
Read the UCMJ.

llotter
07-22-2012, 01:12 PM
To say that it requires religion to make good men do evil ignores the history of communism and leaders like Genghis Khan and probably many, many others. Additionally, you fail to distinguish between religions as though if one is guilty, all must be guilty.

If you start with the premise that individual freedom is an innate 'good' and that the well-spring of freedom occurred in Christian nations, it is not at hard to conclude that there is a cause-effect connection. There are volumes to support that conclusion and what I believe to be prima facia evidence showing that the decline in our respect for our Judeo/Christian heritage over the last several decades, the more crude and violent our society has become.

You don't have to be 'religious' to entertain the idea that some ideologies might be preferred to others nor do you have to be ignorant or stupid not to reject Western Civilization because of it roots in Christianity. But this is exactly with the Left has done, reject anything that is tainted by religion without regard to any possible benefits.

Soflasnapper
07-22-2012, 01:23 PM
I know US forces are supposed to disobey unlawful orders.

The problem is that if they are given orders, they presume they are lawful, almost always.

I know of but a few exceptions, and those were not from the ranks of snipers and special forces.

Now on some occasions, with regular infantry and artillery groups, they may even have JAG officers in the field reviewing when it's justified or not to lay down a barrage of rockets, mortars, or howitzer fire, if there are non-combatants in the area. There, the forces take the JAG directives as lawful, and I presume they mainly are. But again, we do not want the general rank and file making these determinations on their own. Soldiers, sailors, marines or airmen making such self-determinations risk court martial for insubordination or mutiny, and can only hope to prevail in a stacked-against-them military tribunal on their opinion that an order was unlawful.

Other than the guy who stopped Lt. Calley at My Lai, and the guy who decided not to obey the command structure with Obama at the top (since he's not really the president, he said, so ALL orders would be unlawful), I cannot think of another example of US military service personnel declining an order on those grounds.

My Lai and Abu Ghraib provide, to the contrary, examples of military personnel doing what they've been ordered to do, although in clear violation of the UCMJ.

LWW
07-22-2012, 03:26 PM
What were they ordered to do at Abu Ghraib ... and, by who?

Soflasnapper
07-22-2012, 05:46 PM
Gen. "Dirty" Sanchez was ordered to take his experience from Guantanamo Bay, handling the allegedly worst of the worst true terrorists (there may have been a handful of that type among the 900 or whatever), and to 'Gitmo-ize' Abu Ghraib, by bringing the same cruel and inhumane, or degrading, abuses to the 95+% innocent simply swept up general civilian Iraqi population. Because they were not getting any actionable intelligence from these inmates. Because they had no information.

So the psycho-sexual techniques we saw there, identical to the techniques at Gitmo-- stripping the inmates naked, terrorizing them with dogs, humiliating them with real or simulated menstrual secretions smeared onto their faces, etc.-- got instituted at AG. The general in charge there said she was ordered to turn over a wing or a floor to either 'contractors' (mercenaries) or CIA supervisors, and apparently the National Guardsman worked under their orders. Which were put into place by the highest reaches of the national command authority, with some figleafs of plausible deniability by the use of those proximate non-military personnel giving the orders.

That's how I remember it. You?

UPDATE: Apparently it was military intelligence officers, not contractors or CIA.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Sanchez told the Senate Armed Services Committee on Wednesday that he was "horrified at the abusive behavior" at Abu Ghraib.

"We must fully investigate and fix responsibility, as well as accountability," for the abuses, Sanchez testified. "I am fully committed to thorough and impartial investigations that examine the role, commissions and omissions of the entire chain of command -- and that includes me. As a senior commander in Iraq, I accept responsibility for what happened at Abu Ghraib, and I accept as a solemn obligation the responsibility to ensure that it does not happen again."

Sanchez visited the 205th Military Intelligence Brigade's operation, which encompassed Tier 1A at Abu Ghraib, at least three times in October, according to Brig. Gen. Janis L. Karpinski, who was in charge of U.S. detention facilities in Iraq as commander of the 800th Military Police Brigade. That month, the serious abuses documented in published photographs -- naked detainees shackled together, a guard posing with a prisoner on a dog leash -- began.

In an interview yesterday, Karpinski said the number of visits by a commanding general struck her as "unusual," especially because Sanchez had not visited several of the 15 other U.S. detention facilities in Iraq. </div></div>

A WaPost reprinted article, here. (http://www.refuseandresist.org/article-print.php?aid=1367)

hondo
07-22-2012, 06:06 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These mass murders are a consequence of the left's ideology, plain and simple. Since their fundamental belief system rejects any transcendent moral authority, such as the Judeo/Christian God that supplied the foundation for Western Civilization, that vacuum is left for everyone to fill as they please, or ever worse, majority rule. The Joker's moral scheme, free of that abhorrent traditional anchor, has an preferred place at the judge's bench when evaluating right from wrong. </div></div>

You are so full of shit I bet it oozes out of you everytime you move. Shouldn't you be out murdering a doctor or something, Mr Moral Authority?

llotter
07-22-2012, 07:03 PM
When inflation hits here like it did in post WWI Germany, maybe your opinion will actually rise to its two-cents worth, until then, it isn't worth anything at all.

hondo
07-22-2012, 09:11 PM
I hold the same opinion about your opinion.
And until you drop your signature about idolyzing murderers you are the last poster on here qualified to discuss morals.

LWW
07-23-2012, 03:51 AM
How precious ... your "PROOF" of US soldiers carrying out unlawful orders to kill innocents is that US soldiers forced Iraqi prisoners to commit acts common in every US college fraternity, such as putting panties on their heads.

Oh, the humanity.

Stretch
07-23-2012, 04:40 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How precious ... your "PROOF" of US soldiers carrying out unlawful orders to kill innocents is that US soldiers forced Iraqi prisoners to commit acts common in every US college fraternity, such as putting panties on their heads.

Oh, the humanity. </div></div>

In your case, panties would be an improvement. St.

hondo
07-23-2012, 07:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How precious ... your "PROOF" of US soldiers carrying out unlawful orders to kill innocents is that US soldiers forced Iraqi prisoners to commit acts common in every US college fraternity, such as putting panties on their heads.

Oh, the humanity. </div></div>

In your case, panties would be an improvement. St. </div></div>

LOL! Stretch doth layeth down the smacketh. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

LWW
07-23-2012, 08:15 AM
I've had womens panties stretched on my head many times ... so sad that you never have.

Soflasnapper
07-23-2012, 09:45 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How precious ... your "PROOF" of US soldiers carrying out unlawful orders to kill innocents is that US soldiers forced Iraqi prisoners to commit acts common in every US college fraternity, such as putting panties on their heads.

Oh, the humanity. </div></div>

No, the proof of US soldiers killing innocents (or the guilty, perhaps) in their custody was the determination of over 100 homicides of prisoners in custody. I didn't discuss that. Perhaps you never heard of that, or are playing stupid on that issue to score a mythical rhetorical victory or something?

As for your alleged fraternity pranks, how many of them end up in prison sentences in federal penitentiaries? Or have a general busted in rank to colonel?

You point to the UCMJ as your proof this doesn't happen? Yet where does it allow cruel abuse of prisoners who have full Geneva Accord rights according to our own authorities? And if it comported with the UCMJ, how did they end up with prison sentences?

LWW
07-23-2012, 10:04 AM
I'm waiting patiently ...

Soflasnapper
07-23-2012, 11:15 AM
Are you a delicate flower, who turned away from all the reporting of the day in fear of wetting yourself? Are are you that uninformed? Are are you a simpleton who accepts Rush as an authority, along with his willing accomplices on the right, who falsely discounted this firm evidence?

The barest familiarity with what was found by senior military investigators and at courts martial shows ample evidence to my point. What, you never heard of any of this?

They followed the UCMJ? No, they were prosecuted for violating the UCMJ. If any evidence exists that orders were refused by soldiers because they violated the UCMJ, please present it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Beginning in 2004, human rights violations in the form of physical, psychological, and sexual abuse, including torture,[1][2][3] reports of rape,[1][2] sodomy,[3] and homicide[4] of prisoners held in the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq (also known as Baghdad Correctional Facility) came to public attention. These acts were committed by military police personnel of the United States Army together with additional US governmental agencies.[5]
Lynndie England holding a leash attached to a prisoner, known to the guards as "Gus", who is lying on the floor
This image of a prisoner being tortured has become famous internationally, eventually making it onto the cover of The Economist (see "Media" below).

Revealed in the Taguba Report, an initial criminal investigation by the United States Army Criminal Investigation Command had already been underway, where soldiers of the 320th Military Police Battalion had been charged under the Uniform Code of Military Justice with prisoner abuse. In 2004, articles describing the abuse, including pictures showing military personnel appearing to abuse prisoners, came to public attention, when a 60 Minutes II news report (April 28) and an article by Seymour M. Hersh in The New Yorker magazine (posted online on April 30 and published days later in the May 10 issue) reported the story.[6]

The United States Department of Defense removed seventeen soldiers and officers from duty, and eleven soldiers were charged with dereliction of duty, maltreatment, aggravated assault and battery. Between May 2004 and March 2006, eleven soldiers were convicted in courts martial, sentenced to military prison, and dishonorably discharged from service. Two soldiers, Specialist Charles Graner, and his former fiancée, Specialist Lynndie England, were sentenced to ten years and three years in prison, respectively, in trials ending on January 14, 2005 and September 26, 2005. The commanding officer of all Iraq detention facilities, Brigadier General Janis Karpinski, was reprimanded for dereliction of duty and then demoted to the rank of Colonel on May 5, 2005. Col. Karpinski has denied knowledge of the abuses, claiming that the interrogations were authorized by her superiors and performed by subcontractors, and that she was not even allowed entry into the interrogation rooms.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Death of Manadel al-Jamadi
Main article: Manadel al-Jamadi

The prisoner Manadel al-Jamadi died in Abu Ghraib prison after being interrogated and tortured by a CIA officer and a private contractor. The torture included physical violence and strappado hanging, whereby the victim is hung from the wrists with the hands tied behind the back. His death has been labeled a homicide by the US military,[8] but neither of the two men who caused his death have been charged. The private contractor was granted qualified immunity.[9]

Reports of prisoner rape

Major General Antonio Taguba has stated that there is photographic evidence of rape being carried out at Abu Ghraib.[10] An Abu Ghraib detainee told investigators he heard an Iraqi teenage boy screaming and saw an Army translator having sex with him while a female soldier took pictures.[11] The alleged rapist was identified by a witness as an American-Egyptian who worked as a translator, and who is now the subject of a civil court case in the US.[10] Another photo shows an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner.[10] Other photos show sexual assaults on prisoners with objects including a truncheon, wire and a phosphorescent tube, and a female prisoner having her clothing forcibly removed to expose her breasts.[10] Taguba has supported President Obama's decision not to release the photos, stating, "These pictures show torture, abuse, rape and every indecency."[10]

In other alleged cases, female inmates were said to be raped by soldiers.[12] In one reported case, senior US officials admitted rape had taken place at Abu Ghraib.[13] </div></div>

Reporter Seymour Hersch relates that he has seen videos with sound of some of these rapes, which, like the suppressed photos, have been kept from the public.

Here's a lengthy review (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1681676/) published on the National Institute of Health's webpage, concerning the original official and later officially changed certifications of death by natural causes changed upon review into death by homicide.

This is a detailed showing of the inadequacies, errors, omissions, and cover ups that occurred in the matter of detainees and prisoners who were killed by US military personnel.

One money quote:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Most of the soldiers prosecuted for criminal homicides of prisoners received nonjudicial punishments, such as a reduction in rank, and the record of charges, punishments, and even the name of the victim are sealed.[3]</div></div>

Despite the lack of suitable punishment for criminal homicide, the record shows soldiers were prosecuted for them, and received some punishment for them.

Does the UCMJ allow for criminal homicide, or does it forbid it?

LWW
07-23-2012, 11:57 AM
Wow ... you claim they followed orders from above, and as proof you present evidence that they acted alone.

You claim tey commited 100 homicides, and present as proof evidence that they commted zero homicides.

Are you aware that there are people who read what you link to?

Soflasnapper
07-23-2012, 04:42 PM
That's not quite right, as that there were homicides was admitted and cited by the military authorities. However, you are correct that THIS SOURCE doesn't back up 100 homicides, although others do.

Note, however, that the prior source end date is in 2005, and couldn't use up to date stats of 2005 for the study, and did not include later deaths.

Note also, the strong likelihood that the reason for violations of regs on death certificates, delays, re-writing death certs one or more times, providing no details of cause of death, etc., was to falsely claim what were really homicides to be instead deaths from natural causes.

This doesn't begin to account for the impossible to account for deaths in custody of 'ghost detainees,' whose very status as unreported was a violation of the Geneva Conventions, and therefore the UCMJ as well.

Here's yet another survey (ending in '05) that discusses the FORMALLY DECLARED homicides of prisoners and detainees in US military custody.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Deaths of detainees in the custody of US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan from 2002 to 2005.
Allen SA, Rich JD, Bux RC, Farbenblum B, Berns M, Rubenstein L.
Source

The Center for Prisoner Health and Human Rights, The Miriam Hospital, Providence, Rhode Island, USA. Scott_Allen_MD@Brown.edu
Abstract

In light of the large number of detainees who continue to be taken and held in US custody in settings with limited judicial or public oversight, deaths of detainees warrant scrutiny. We have undertaken the task of reviewing all known detainee deaths between 2002 and early 2005 based on reports available in the public domain. Using documents obtained from the Department of Defense through a Freedom of Information Act request, combined with a review of anecdotal published press accounts, <span style='font-size: 14pt'>112 cases of death of detainees in United States custody (105 in Iraq, 7 in Afghanistan) during the period from 2002 to early 2005 were identified. Homicide accounted for the largest number of deaths </span>(43) followed by enemy mortar attacks against the detention facility (36). <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Deaths attributed to natural causes numbered 20. Nine were listed as unknown cause of death, and 4 were reported as accidental or natural. A clustering of 8 deaths ascribed to natural causes in Iraq in August 2003 raises questions about the adequacy and availability of medical care, as well as other conditions of confinement that may have had an impact on the mortality rate.</span></div></div>

Here. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17415327)

As the prior article cited explains, the 'unknown' causes of death, as well as the falsely claimed 'natural causes' for death, contain some that were certainly homicides.

Even true 'natural caused' deaths were from maltreatment with prescribed tactics like hooding, stress positions, failure to provide medical treatment as needed, and etc.

hondo
07-23-2012, 08:31 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've had womens panties stretched on my head many times ... so sad that you never have. </div></div>

Yes, but in our cases the panties belonged to a woman.

Stretch
07-24-2012, 12:04 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've had womens panties stretched on my head many times ... so sad that you never have. </div></div>

While your fetish for wrapping womans panties around your head is mildly disturbing, it's not wholly unexpected. What concerns me however is that the fabric is stretched so tight it's cutting off the circulation to your brain. How else to explain you comparing tortured Gitmo prisoners to student initiation rituals. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Oh by the way. Your Mini-Me Johnnyd wanted to know if crotchless panties would make suitable headdress for your next Kink Convention? Or do they lack a certain je ne sais quoi. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif St.