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Soflasnapper
07-25-2012, 03:17 PM
THIS GUY (http://willyloman.wordpress.com/) ("Willyloman") has a several part series of posts on the evidence and some contradictory parts of it, all of which are on this front page (with some other posts intervening, scroll down to see the older posts). Links are provided in the posts to discussions on Above Top Secret site on these details as well.

Apparently, the alleged shooter was in a car just outside the rear exit door with some weapons (most of the armor worn had been taken off, and the AR-15 discarded just outside the theater exit door). Also apparently, the rear window was broken to get at him.

Of interest, there was a gas mask found at the extreme end of the building from the exit door. It's tricky to get a timeline that allows this guy to go to the end of the building and then return to be found inside the locked car. The suggestion is that ANOTHER guy, the real shooter, discarded the mask out of a different getaway car, leaving the drugged and disoriented alleged shooter as the patsy on scene.

Plausible? Who knows? The beginning to consider whether the original story holds up is the evidence, for which there are spotty and contradictory reports.

The judge sealed the case last Friday, evidently, but we're still getting leaks like this:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Here’s the story… you just can’t make up stuff like this.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Police and FBI agents were called to the University of Colorado Anschutz medical campus in Aurora on Monday morning after the psychiatrist, who is also a professor at the school, reported receiving a package believed to be from the suspect. Although that package turned out to be from someone else and harmless, a search of the Campus Services’ mailroom turned up another package sent to the psychiatrist with Holmes’ name in the return address, the source told FoxNews.com.

A second law enforcement source said authorities got a warrant from a county judge and took the package away Monday night. When it was opened, its chilling contents were revealed.

“Inside the package was a notebook full of details about how he was going to kill people,” the source told “There were drawings of what he was going to do in it — drawings and illustrations of the massacre.”

Among the images shown in the spiral-bound notebook’s pages were gun-wielding stick figures blowing away other stick figures. --from Fox News</div></div>

Now, let’s get this straight…

A professor from the school calls up the police and claims that he has a package sent to him by the suspect.

They get there and look at the package, and it wasn’t sent by the suspect.

But then, they just happen to decide to look around the mailroom and BY SOME INTERGALACTIC MIRACLE OF MIRACLES there does just happen to be a package sent to the exact same professor from the suspect.

What a coincidence that is huh?

So they don’t open said package there, they have to squirrel it away back to headquarters where they open it up and find that it is a treasure trove of evidence!!!! INCLUDING STICK FIGURE CONFESSIONS of his entire plan.

Apparently one “source” told Fox News that the package had been there since July 12th.

Wow.

I guess that means the family members will sue the post office now and that will be the final nail in the coffin of that institution, allowing for them to privatize it once and for all.

Wow. Talk about multi-tasking. Never let a good crisis be wasted. Frame up the drugged out patsy AND finish off the public sector post office in the same stick figure drawing. Neat how that works out, huh? Cus yes folks, they will sue the shit out of someone… the school, the post office, the maker of the spiral notebook… someone is getting sued because if that thing had been there since July 12th and had been discovered by the professor back then, all of this could have been avoided.

Somewhere in Denver lawyers are clawing each others eyes out to get to the victim’ families to sign them up for the multi-trillion dollar class-action lawsuits.

I can’t even begin to describe how stupid this is. The guy carefully plans out this attack, rigs up his home with EXTREMELY sophisticated explosives, sets a timer on his stereo to entice the cops in, somehow gets the closest possible parking space, goes in, waits, fakes the phone call, goes out, gets changed, WAITS 30 MINUTES or so for perfect cover for his attack, goes in, tosses distraction grenades, times his attack perfectly because he is out just as the cops arrive,… and then he just kind of hangs out in the car waiting to be arrested? And he warns the cops of the traps in the house set.. for the cops?!?

AND he sends some professor a stick figure confession over a week before the event so he could be arrested prior to the opening night of Batman?

Really?

Really?

This is how dumb we’re supposed to be?</div></div>

LWW
07-25-2012, 03:34 PM
As soon as a leftist can come up with an insane reason to blame anyone but the shooter ... which they must do now that it's known he was a drug addled ward of the state occutard type ... they will demand that the loony tunes version be accepted as inviolable truth.

Soflasnapper
07-25-2012, 04:29 PM
Dude, wake up!

The far most obvious conspiracy claim is that this was a set up to get gun control back on the front burner.

You fell for that type of conspiracy theory on Fast and Furious. Too much of a leap in this case? Hard to believe we've now found even your limit!

LWW
07-25-2012, 05:56 PM
The difference is the Brady bunch have stated that Obama had this working "under the radar" ... but if the regime says it ain't so, you will of course slavishly agree.

Sev
07-25-2012, 06:43 PM
What I find interesting is that the trained professional cops that were on the scene were seconds away and still could not manage to protect the public.

Proves they are basically useless until after the fact.

Qtec
07-26-2012, 01:03 AM
I saw this.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A second law enforcement source quoted by FoxNews.com said they were <u>unable to confirm that the package had arrived before the killings occurred.</u> </div></div>

Q

LWW
07-26-2012, 04:29 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I saw this.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A second law enforcement source quoted by FoxNews.com said they were <u>unable to confirm that the package had arrived before the killings occurred.</u> </div></div>

Q </div></div>

And?

Qtec
07-26-2012, 04:49 AM
It gets REALLY tedious to try and get you to be specific. It would save a lot of time if you would just stop being such a FKN a$$hole and try and converse in an adult manner.

Either that then you ARE aged 12, so in that case , I take everything back because you can't help it.

Q

Qtec
07-26-2012, 05:04 AM
'And' on its own is not a sentence. <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Its not ENGLISH you ignoramus.</span>

Are you an illegal? Is ENGLISH not your first language? If you don't know something , just ask but you need to be specific.

We won't judge you for being a moron. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

Q

Stretch
07-26-2012, 06:06 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">'And' on its own is not a sentence. <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Its not ENGLISH you ignoramus.</span>

Are you an illegal? Is ENGLISH not your first language? If you don't know something , just ask but you need to be specific.

We won't judge you for being a moron. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

Q

Too late. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif St.
</div></div>

Qtec
07-26-2012, 06:15 AM
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

Q.....Ha

LWW
07-26-2012, 06:43 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It gets REALLY tedious to try and get you to be specific. It would save a lot of time if you would just stop being such a FKN a$$hole and try and converse in an adult manner.

Either that then you ARE aged 12, so in that case , I take everything back because you can't help it.

Q </div></div>

Very well.

And, being that you bothered to make a post on this topic, what ... if anything ... is your point?

LWW
07-26-2012, 06:44 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">'And' on its own is not a sentence. <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Its not ENGLISH you ignoramus.</span>

Are you an illegal? Is ENGLISH not your first language? If you don't know something , just ask but you need to be specific.

We won't judge you for being a moron. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

Q

Too late. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif St.
</div></div> </div></div>

Trying to merge with the collective ... or still owned by how the quote function works?

Gayle in MD
07-26-2012, 07:30 AM
My understanding is that there is ample evidence, such that this would be an open and shut case.

Already a video has been produced which demonstrates the time of every shot, the location of every person there, those who were hit and those as thhey tried to escape, all of it gleaned from the many victims who have been interviewed, including every step made by the shooter, throughout the attack, and from the moment he first showed up.

Not that hard to do given that the backdrop of the actual movie, gave each of the people there something to which they could draw upon to time each event, as it impacted them personally.

I don't buy into any of the conspiracy theories that usually circulate after these horrible things occur, particularly when there are so many survivors whose collective recollections can be gathered to re-create the entire scene.

Also, my understanding is that the car window was removed carefully to avoid setting off any other bombs that may have been inside of it, previously set to go off, and that the shooter was standing near the car when the police arrived, not sitting in the car.

G.

eg8r
07-26-2012, 07:33 AM
So when you ask someone a Yes/No question is this how you respond to them?

eg8r

Soflasnapper
07-26-2012, 08:22 AM
I think it is simply human nature to have some contradictory eye witness testimony when such traumatic events transpire. Eye witness testimony is already known to be unreliable, and memory, corruptible, upon suggestion. So the early reports, before a group mind consensus is formed from hearing the official story, may contain truths that are later swept from the account.

That SOMEBODY entered that darkened theater and did that deed is clear enough. The question of WHO that was, and if there were confederate accomplices, is what is being raised here, and nobody in that theater was in a position to identify the shooter as his face was hidden. Nor did any follow the shooter out the door to establish his actions and identify the alleged perp as the shooter.

If there was a several minute window from the end of the shooting to the police finding this man, that was enough time for there to be a different shooter who was taken away in an automobile without anyone noticing, and in that scenario, leaving the drugged failed grad student as the patsy. And perhaps the mailed material was part of a frame.

Gayle in MD
07-26-2012, 08:44 AM
That's a whole lot of ifs! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

I don't find that scenario very logical. I'd call it remote, in fact, given the peripheral information about this perp.

I haven't heard whether there is any surveillance video available, but one would think there would be.

I feel pretty certain, just from what I have learned already, that this will be an open and shut, case.

At the very least, the diary that was mailed can be used for forensic DNA, I would imagine.

Additionally, I don't see any rational reason for someone else to do the deed, unless they were mentally ill, in which case, that sicko would want all of the credit, if you will, for the carnage, and from what I've learned, this guy surely fits the perp bill.

He was given a failing grade for his irrational oral presentation in class.

He has all of the marker indications of mental illness, generally speaking.

And with all of the gun murders, and assault gun mass murders, in America, any anti-gun effort surely doesn't need any more proof of carnage to raise questions about the insanity of, or failure to enforce, the ridiculous lack of gun laws in this country, and the irrational ways that certain states dilute them, with support from the disgraceful NRA.

G.

Soflasnapper
07-26-2012, 09:13 AM
He shows the same hallmarks of mind control as a Sirhan Sirhan or a Mark Chapman. Of course, if one is to get someone to take the fall as the patsy, they will be drugged, hypnotized, and/or mentally unstable/ill.

The key to the use of such Manchurian candidates is that they cannot be relied upon to do the deed, so you have an actual professional do it and escape the scene, leaving the patsy holding the bag.

This is not an especially fanciful scenario, as it's occurred many times in the past. And of course, as these scenarios would be set up by professionals, the official story line intended to be believed is given some evidences and apparent proofs, only accidentally (but usually) having some cracks in that false facade of facts.

Just as a kicker to all the foregoing, remember please that we have proof that the FBI's forensic crime labs have falsified evidence to frame innocents, in order to hide the culpability of perpetrators who were working for the feds. That happened in Boston for one place, where there was a key insider Mafia informant who happened to be a somewhat prolific murderer. To keep him in place for snitching, the FBI provably and admittedly framed others for those crimes.

Please note as well that each and every domestic terror ring wrapped up in recent years has been the subject of FBI entrapment and guidance by agents provocateur.

Gayle in MD
07-26-2012, 09:52 AM
You must have documentation that I have not seen, as I know you to be very thorough in your stidies. I don't deny that there have been some shady operations, heaven knows, we witnessed that sort of thing on steroids during the Bush Administration.

However, I don't think this particular case lends itself to any logical conspiracy theories.

We have heard from others who grew up with this guy, for one thing, and additionally, as I said before, I can't see any logical ulterior motive for such a grand conspiracy.

I do think that if this guy was drugged, the local police would know about it.

It would take quite a grand scale of stealth pre-event operations to pull off what you are suggesting, not that it couldn't be accomplished, but why? What purpose could that possibly serve, that couldn't be accomplished with a whole lot less trouble and bloodshed?

G.

Soflasnapper
07-26-2012, 10:21 AM
I've already alluded to the gun control issue. That actually works two different ways, potentially, depending on the narrative.

1) The crazed gun grabbers, intent upon disarming the populace, knowing they have an unpopular position, need a horrific example to gain popular acceptance of the need for an incremental change back to at least the slight controls on assault weapons (so-called assault weapons-- I know the critique of that claim so I do not need pushback from others), and high volume magazines. NOT because they favor sensible gun control legislation, but because they are really the fascists some claim, intent upon eventually disarming the public to enable a later complete police state takeover. That they are such villains is why they could so diabolically sacrifice innocents in this pursuit.

2) The crazed right wing money trust forces, knowing the Dems have shat themselves over gun control and are in no way going there, and seeing their golden chance at ending this president's time in office slip away through their hapless and stumbling candidate's failure to make the sale, decide to energize their base, by creating a reason for gun control to be re-inserted into the public discourse. Since they represent Satan on earth, they are pure evil, and have no compunctions about sacrificing innocents to gain their illicit end results.

Basically, all may agree that evil exists in our country, and that horrific acts result. The disagreement would be over who is doing what for which reason, not that there is something insane about suggesting evil exists and evil doers do horrific things.

The issue in this case is the likelihood or not that there was more to this than the one guy being crazed and/or evil (first), and then the likelihood of what kind of conspirators or conspiracy exists, if it was not the act of a lone sick individual.

The latest version on the mailed 'confession' materials is courtesy of NBC last night:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The story was carried by other “news” agencies like the Huffington Post complete with the “stick figures” and the mistaken package storyline.

But then the story has changed considerably.

NBC “News” ran a story last night on their prime time show in which they make mention early on of the “writings’ of Holmes in the spiral notebook.

Gone – is any mention of the stick figure drawings.
Gone – is any mention of the professor calling the FBI and telling them he had a package from Holmes.
Gone – is the story of the mistaken package and then the real package.
Fixed – is the narrative that the package sat there for a long time before being “discovered” by the feds (no lawsuits now)
Fixed – is the narrative of how they found out about it in the first place (the “uncooperative” Holmes who has not confessed, told them about the confession stick figures just like the “uncooperative” Holmes warned the cops about the traps he set for the cops)

The new narrative directly conveniently addresses several problems of the first in that it was extremely implausible that some professor would mistake one package as being from a suspected mass murdered just to have another coincidentally waiting to be discovered that was from him or the fact that someone was going to be sued and as it turns out, the campus post office isn’t attached to the USPS. These are problems. That says nothing of the ridiculous “stick figure confession’ aspect of the whole thing.

But let’s think about this for a second: uncooperative Holmes not only saved officer’s lives by warning them of the traps, but he also made the entire case for the prosecution. How much more “cooperation” do they want? </div></div>

That's an update from willyloman's site, link to the NBC report, here. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/48333075#48333075)

Gayle in MD
07-26-2012, 10:56 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've already alluded to the gun control issue. That actually works two different ways, potentially, depending on the narrative.

1) The crazed gun grabbers, intent upon disarming the populace, knowing they have an unpopular position, need a horrific example to gain popular acceptance of the need for an incremental change back to at least the slight controls on assault weapons (so-called assault weapons-- I know the critique of that claim so I do not need pushback from others), and high volume magazines. NOT because they favor sensible gun control legislation, but because they are really the fascists some claim, intent upon eventually disarming the public to enable a later complete police state takeover. That they are such villains is why they could so diabolically sacrifice innocents in this pursuit.


<span style="color: #990000">Crazed gun grabbers? You're being facetious? </span> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

2) The crazed right wing money trust forces, knowing the Dems have shat themselves over gun control and are in no way going there, and seeing their golden chance at ending this president's time in office slip away through their hapless and stumbling candidate's failure to make the sale, decide to energize their base, by creating a reason for gun control to be re-inserted into the public discourse. Since they represent Satan on earth, they are pure evil, and have no compunctions about sacrificing innocents to gain their illicit end results.

<span style="color: #990000">But they have already been pushing that BS all along, that this president was going to take away everyone's guns, and every kind of gun. The irrational right still believes this. They're already on board, are they not? The NRA has been propagating this lies from the beginning of the Obama campaign! </span>

Basically, all may agree that evil exists in our country, and that horrific acts result. The disagreement would be over who is doing what for which reason, not that there is something insane about suggesting evil exists and evil doers do horrific things.

The issue in this case is the likelihood or not that there was more to this than the one guy being crazed and/or evil (first), and then the likelihood of what kind of conspirators or conspiracy exists, if it was not the act of a lone sick individual.

The latest version on the mailed 'confession' materials is courtesy of NBC last night:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The story was carried by other “news” agencies like the Huffington Post complete with the “stick figures” and the mistaken package storyline.

But then the story has changed considerably.

NBC “News” ran a story last night on their prime time show in which they make mention early on of the “writings’ of Holmes in the spiral notebook.

Gone – is any mention of the stick figure drawings.
Gone – is any mention of the professor calling the FBI and telling them he had a package from Holmes.

<span style="color: #990000">This contention was presented early on in a vvery different manner on HLN, Dr. Drew, on the first or second day, when the same FBI guy that is usually the FBI expert, stated that the FBI was already at the campus, looking for other forensics, checking for any missing dangerous chemicals, and talking with professors who had taught, or known, the perp.

As these peripheral investigations were being discussed, there were other law enforcemennt experts also chiming in, reluctant to give specifics, for trial purposes, so I am thinking that some of the changed information could well have been in consideration of avoiding a mistrial. Possible, no? It was not presented at the outset that the professor had contacted the FBi, but that they were already there, early on. </span>
Gone – is the story of the mistaken package and then the real package.

<span style="color: #990000">Same explanation. </span>
Fixed – is the narrative that the package sat there for a long time before being “discovered” by the feds (no lawsuits now)

<span style="color: #990000">Seems to me I originally heard it had been there since July 7th, originally. </span>
Fixed – is the narrative of how they found out about it in the first place (the “uncooperative” Holmes who has not confessed, told them about the confession stick figures just like the “uncooperative” Holmes warned the cops about the traps he set for the cops)

<span style="color: #990000"> He has been spitting in the faces of the cops from the start, according to what I have heard. Additionally, he was taunting them, not warning them, about the explosives in his apartment, but the police were already aware of something strange there, due to the neighbor's call during the time of the event. </span>

The new narrative directly conveniently addresses several problems of the first in that it was extremely implausible that some professor would mistake one package as being from a suspected mass murdered just to have another coincidentally waiting to be discovered that was from him or the fact that someone was going to be sued and as it turns out, the campus post office isn’t attached to the USPS. These are problems. That says nothing of the ridiculous “stick figure confession’ aspect of the whole thing.

<span style="color: #990000">I'm admittedly confused, as the report about the so called diary, and the stick figures, when I first heard of it, said that they were one in the same. One package, containing both. This was from the same FBi guy, you'd redocnize him, I can't think of his name, he's the one who is always there giving information about standard procedures. Makes sense that the FBI wouldn't have to be called, but would have people immediately at the campus, interviewing everyone, and checking on any missing dangerous materials from the lbaoratories where Holmes had access. </span>

But let’s think about this for a second: uncooperative Holmes not only saved officer’s lives by warning them of the traps, but he also made the entire case for the prosecution. How much more “cooperation” do they want? </div></div>

<span style="color: #990000">Let's not forget he is unbalanced. School mates from when he was growing up, had reservations about his soundness. Neighbors, as well. </span>

That's an update from willyloman's site, link to the NBC report, here. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/48333075#48333075)



</div></div>

<span style="color: #990000">I hope you won't think me difficult, but half of the country is already crying out for tighter gun controls.

It's about even, last I checked, and has been that way for a while. I believe that the lies being spread around by the NRA, along with their Stand Your Ground, failures, and the outrage over that, had already heated up a pretty good case for strengthening gun laws, and particularly since the Expose' about what was going on at Gun Shows, where dealers don't even both checking on anything, before selling assault weapons.

Yes, we always hear about conspiracy theories, but I haven't seen a whole lot of them fully proven, ending usually with a lot of suspicion.

I think also, that given the close nature of that particular neighborhood between citizens and the police force, if there had been any conspiracy, no one could convince me that local police were in on it.

Sorry, I guess I'm a pretty hard sell when it comes to conspiracy theories, but these events were also not reported in the same manner originally on HLN, as they were later on NBC, apparently.

Have you by any chance seen the computerized recreation video?

Quite specific.

G.</span>

Gayle in MD
07-26-2012, 11:47 AM
Here's another update from Huffpo:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> DENVER -- The university once attended by a man accused of killing 12 people in a Colorado movie theater confirmed on Wednesday that it received a suspicious package two days earlier that was turned over to authorities, but it wouldn't confirm its contents or sender.

The University of Colorado, Denver said the U.S. Postal Service delivered the package to its medical campus Monday, and it was immediately investigated and turned over to authorities within hours.

Fox News' website reported that former neuroscience graduate student James Holmes sent a notebook to the university containing scribblings of stick figures being shot and a written description of an upcoming attack. The package containing it was addressed to a psychiatrist at the school, the website reported. It was unclear if Holmes, 24, had had any previous contact with the person. The neuroscience program that he withdrew from on June 10 included professors of psychiatry.

He is accused of opening fire on a theater showing the new Batman movie, killing 12 people and injuring 58.

NBC News, citing unnamed sources, reported that Holmes told investigators to look for the package and that it described killing people.

The FBI and other law enforcement agencies refused to confirm the reports to The Associated Press.

U.S. Postal Service spokesman David Rupert said the agency's inspectors have no direct knowledge of the package reportedly containing the notebook. He said no one has contacted the Postal Service for assistance in the investigation.

Citing unnamed law enforcement sources, Fox News' website reported that Holmes sent the notebook in a package that had sat unopened since July 12.

The university said the report that the package sat uninvestigated that long is inaccurate. A spokeswoman declined to comment further, citing a gag order issued by a judge in the case.

Before the gag order was issued, police said Holmes received more than 50 packages at the school and his home that apparently contained ammunition, combat gear and explosive materials that he used in the attack and to booby-trap his Aurora apartment.

The building was evacuated for days while authorities rendered the apartment safe and collected evidence. Residents were allowed to return Wednesday evening.

Holmes' defense team also briefly visited the apartment building Wednesday and left without answering reporters' questions.

Holmes was allegedly stockpiling for the attack while he studied at the school's neuroscience program. He bought a shotgun and pistol in May, authorities say. On June 7, the date he took a year-end oral exam, he bought an assault rifle. He filed paperwork to leave the program three days later and did not provide a reason, the university has said.

On June 25, he filed an application to join a private gun range in eastern Colorado, but the club's owner, hearing what he described as a "bizarre" outgoing voice mail on Holmes' cellphone recorded in a low voice with heavy-breathing, told his staff to watch out for the man. Holmes never came to the range.

Holmes grew up in California.

Photos of the victims and shooting at Aurora's Century 16 Theater:

</div></div>

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/26/report-suspect-described-_n_1705093.html

Soflasnapper
07-26-2012, 01:02 PM
I hope you won't think me difficult, but half of the country is already crying out for tighter gun controls.

It's about even, last I checked, and has been that way for a while.

There IS a fair amount of support for gun control of some sort, and it IS about evenly divided, maybe a 45-41 split. However, the support USED to be about 80% for more gun controls (back when the Clinton admin put in the assault weapons bans, etc.). That means support has been slipping these last couple of decades, and with support/opposition at about equal levels, no firm mandate from the public exists for anything further, even to reinstate the prior law.

And the fact is that as a whole, not counting the NY Congresswoman whose whole career was based on trying to control the kind of mass murdering weapons that cost her husband his life on the Long Island train, no Democrats of any high standing in the party have pushed anything along these lines for some time. Some astute political writer noted, and I agree, that the Dems have simply dropped this line of action entirely, and given up the efforts.

My hypothesis isn't about REAL gun control being pushed or taking place, but the attempt to RAISE it, in order to get people energized to vote for the current lame political rival of Obama (I favor the second interpretation of the two I mention, and yes, the first one is 'what the other side would say,' not me.)

Sorry, I guess I'm a pretty hard sell when it comes to conspiracy theories

Not a problem, but I'm pretty much the opposite in my world view, and many scoffed at supposed CTs have turned out to be right, so far as I can tell.

Here's a question for you:

Are these the same guys?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-DkjA-Ds3DvM/UA-lrzvNEcI/AAAAAAAABY8/jdbnDBMXAws/s640/Pig+Mine+News.jpg

Does SMILING broaden the nose, or what, do you think?

Have you by any chance seen the computerized recreation video?

No, but obviously, as a synthesized after-the-fact creation, it is subject to the garbage in-garbage out problem. And while I do not doubt the particulars of what happened in theater 9 that night, the basic question of who did it cannot be answered by referencing eye-witness accounts of the carnage, with the shooter's visage masked between his ballistic helmet and the gas mask.

Gayle in MD
07-26-2012, 02:07 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hope you won't think me difficult, but half of the country is already crying out for tighter gun controls.

It's about even, last I checked, and has been that way for a while.

There IS a fair amount of support for gun control of some sort, and it IS about evenly divided, maybe a 45-41 split. However, the support USED to be about 80% for more gun controls (back when the Clinton admin put in the assault weapons bans, etc.). That means support has been slipping these last couple of decades, and with support/opposition at about equal levels, no firm mandate from the public exists for anything further, even to reinstate the prior law.

<span style="color: #990000"> True, and the very reason why I am not only calling for, but working for efforts to create more demand that the NRA be prevented from spreading around lies not only about guns, but working to weaken gun laws even further than they annd the Repiglicans have already managed to accomplish with their unfounded, anti-common sense, wild conspiracy accusations against anyone, and everyone who realizes that agreage citizens whould not be able to put our policemen and policewomen at greater risk, due to a proliferation of these assault weapons, and the ridiculous Stand Your Ground Laws, which the NRA has pushed with their indecent payoffs. </span>

And the fact is that as a whole, not counting the NY Congresswoman whose whole career was based on trying to control the kind of mass murdering weapons that cost her husband his life on the Long Island train, no Democrats of any high standing in the party have pushed anything along these lines for some time. Some astute political writer noted, and I agree, that the Dems have simply dropped this line of action entirely, and given up the efforts.

<span style="color: #990000">I have heard a number of Democrats in the last several days, coming out against these assault weapons, and ridiculous multi-bullet clips. The former Governor of Pennsylvania, and President Obama, stated in his speech, he thinks most Americans would agree that common sense would be enough for Americans to agree that these assault weapons have no place in the hands of average citizens. </span>

My hypothesis isn't about REAL gun control being pushed or taking place, but the attempt to RAISE it, in order to get people energized to vote for the current lame political rival of Obama (I favor the second interpretation of the two I mention, and yes, the first one is 'what the other side would say,' not me.)

<span style="color: #990000">Thought that was how you meant it. I agree. </span>

Sorry, I guess I'm a pretty hard sell when it comes to conspiracy theories

Not a problem, but I'm pretty much the opposite in my world view, and many scoffed at supposed CTs have turned out to be right, so far as I can tell.

Here's a question for you:

Are these the same guys?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-DkjA-Ds3DvM/UA-lrzvNEcI/AAAAAAAABY8/jdbnDBMXAws/s640/Pig+Mine+News.jpg

Does SMILING broaden the nose, or what, do you think?

<span style="color: #990000">Yes, smiling can make the nose appear broader, it can flare the nostrils. Additionally, weight loss could explain the differences in the two photos.

The shadow of his beard growth, matches both pictures. I would think they are the same person. </span>

Have you by any chance seen the computerized recreation video?

No, but obviously, as a synthesized after-the-fact creation, it is subject to the garbage in-garbage out problem. And while I do not doubt the particulars of what happened in theater 9 that night, the basic question of who did it cannot be answered by referencing eye-witness accounts of the carnage, with the shooter's visage masked between his ballistic helmet and the gas mask. </div></div>

<span style="color: #990000">I was actually thinking more along the lines of the amount of time involved between the supposed perp leaving through the side emergency door, and how long before he re-emerged with the gun, and additionally, when he walked out, and when the police showed up. Time-frame of the events, IOW, is what I believe could prove a good deal regarding what could and couldn't have taken place.

Thanks for the interesting debate.

G.</span>