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View Full Version : BREAK - Cause of Cue Ball flying off table ?



10-05-2002, 10:18 AM
Sometimes i have problems with the cueball flying off the table after
hitting the head ball on the break

What is the most likely cause of this problem ?

It does seem to happen when i really put my body into the break and
try break all hell outta the balls

is that the problem ? can you actually hit the cueball too hard ?

i am talking 8ball and i am talking about pretty small light balls

Tom_In_Cincy
10-05-2002, 10:47 AM
It has been my experience.. that if you do not hit the head ball full.. that the cue ball will be deflected off at an angle. If hitting the cue ball hard.. the cue ball will jump up and off at an angle. If you hit the head ball full, and hard, the result is that the cue ball will jump straight up.

I suggest backing off on the hard hit, and focus more on hitting the head ball full.

nAz
10-05-2002, 10:53 AM
hey Tom is it true that on the break some times the CB will actually come off the table after a hard hit, before it hits the stack. if so is that cuased by hit the CB low?

Tom_In_Cincy
10-05-2002, 11:12 AM
nAz,

Try this next time you are at the pool hall..

Take a dime and put it about 6 inches in front of the cue ball.. Hit the cue ball like you would for a break shot.. the cue ball will jump over the dime all the time..

Have you ever seen the X-mas Tree design on a pool table.

Two lines from either side of the headstring, heading to the foot spot? and a line across the headstring..

All of these lines are caused from the cue ball jumping at contact for a break shot.

heater451
10-05-2002, 01:03 PM
Detailing a little more. . . .The stroke can make the cueball jump, exactly like a regular jump-shot (into the cloth/table, then the air). It's just a very shallow jump.

I'd imagine that the cueball might get 'scooped' into the air, with the occasional, low aimed break stroke as well.

One more thing to consider, IF shooting on a coin-op table, is that the cueball may be a slightly larger diameter than the other balls, and it will run up the head ball like a ramp. I think the telling fact may be in that the cue ball would tend to fly right off/toward the end of the table, whereas a 'jumping' break ball will jump straight up, a good part of the time. It all depends upon the cueball/headball contact point, of course.



===================

Ludba
10-05-2002, 01:22 PM
More power usually means less accuracy. Hitting the head ball slightly off of "full" at eleventy billion miles per hour is going to send it careening.

Another thing I've noticed is that when I place the cue ball closer to the rail and use a rail bridge to break, even if I hit dead center on the head ball, the cue ball pops up (and back). I think it's because there is a slight angle to my cue that makes the cue ball jump up more, hitting the head ball higher up instead of dead on. So I've started putting the cue closer to the rack, my bridge hand on the table, and keeping my cue level.

When you break, the cue ball is going to jump up at least a little, but you might experiment with the levelness of your cue while breaking to limit the height on the cue ball.

Another exercise: when you find a particular break style you are comfortable with, break using a slow speed. Take notice of where the cue ball goes after hitting the head ball. Ideally the cue should stop dead in its tracks if it hits the head ball full, having fully transferred all its energy to the head ball, as long as the cue has no forward or backward spin (induced by hitting low or high). So if it goes to the left after hitting the rack, chances are the cue hit the head ball to the left of "full". Work on hitting so that the cue hits dead center. Gradually, increase the speed of your break. Just an experiment. I usually put back spin on the cue to bring it back rather than letting it get lost in the mess down at the foot of the table. Better position after the break is important once you start making balls on the break.

nAz
10-05-2002, 01:45 PM
lol yes im familar with that Tree, i got a really great break just too bad i cant run out lol!

10-05-2002, 02:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> Sometimes i have problems with the cueball flying off the table after
hitting the head ball on the break

What is the most likely cause of this problem ?

It does seem to happen when i really put my body into the break and
try break all hell outta the balls

is that the problem ? can you actually hit the cueball too hard ?

i am talking 8ball and i am talking about pretty small light balls <hr></blockquote>

your butt is usually elevated when this happens and/or

the foot spot more than likely has been 'pounded' or tapped too many times therefore the head ball will sit lower than the normal playing surface BS

Ludba
10-05-2002, 06:12 PM
"your butt is usually elevated when this happens"

I'm sure Anonymous means that you should level your cue (as I was saying in my post), and not that you should lower your rear when breaking.

10-05-2002, 10:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Ludba:</font><hr> "your butt is usually elevated when this happens"

I'm sure Anonymous means that you should level your cue (as I was saying in my post), and not that you should lower your rear when breaking. <hr></blockquote>

Yes,I meant 'butt' of your cue,Ludba /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Although I'm not a registered user and really don't care to be,I'm not anonymous.I'm BS. /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif no pun intended.BS

Ludba
10-05-2002, 10:47 PM
BS,
I'm glad we cleared that up. That could have provoked an embarassing incident for someone not as experienced in breaking as you and me.

10-06-2002, 01:08 AM
Guys, firstly thanx for all the great informative replies /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

I did a hour of break practice this morning, yesterday i actually videotaped my break and other shots

One thing i picked up was i was not contacting the ball at the point where the cue was moving fastest. I worked out that lengthening my bridge would help heaps. I tried this in practice and even without using all of my bodyweight into the break, i was still able to get heaps more power just by extending the bridge ! so i worked on control and the smooth level stroke and was definitely breaking a lot better. I actually can't believe how much difference just lengthening the bridge really makes .

I thoroughly recommend videotaping your techniques to see if there are any little things you can improve

nmshooter
10-06-2002, 02:01 AM
I used to do the same thing and actually hit a guy in the chest once with my power break. Although it was intentional I discovered something in doing so, I was breaking with the cue ball too close to me. I would break off the rain with the ball about 6 inches off the rail. The elevated cue and the fact that the cueball sort of "hydroplanes" across the table was causing this to happen, IMO. I moved the cueball as far up as I could and started placing my bridge hand on the table. This gave me quite a bit more power as well as keeping the ball on the table.

I might add that Im 6'5" tall so I think that added to the problems when I was breaking off the rail. Again, its all just my opinion but I hope it helps.

bluewolf
10-06-2002, 04:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Ludba:</font><hr>

Another exercise: when you find a particular break style you are comfortable with, break using a slow speed. Take notice of where the cue ball goes after hitting the head ball. Ideally the cue should stop dead in its tracks if it hits the head ball full, having fully transferred all its energy to the head ball, as long as the cue has no forward or backward spin (induced by hitting low or high). So if it goes to the left after hitting the rack, chances are the cue hit the head ball to the left of "full". Work on hitting so that the cue hits dead center. Gradually, increase the speed of your break. Just an experiment. I usually put back spin on the cue to bring it back rather than letting it get lost in the mess down at the foot of the table. Better position after the break is important once you start making balls on the break. <hr></blockquote>

Now I like this suggestion!!! since I am working on my break, I fully intend to try this out. Thanks!!!

Fred Agnir
10-06-2002, 06:36 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Ludba:</font><hr> Ideally the cue should stop dead in its tracks if it hits the head ball full, having fully transferred all its energy to the head ball, as long as the cue has no forward or backward spin (induced by hitting low or high). <hr></blockquote>
Just as a point of accuracy, the cueball is lighter than the pack of balls that it hits. In a no-spin full contact, the cueball should (and does) go back toward the breaker.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>I usually put back spin on the cue to bring it back rather than letting it get lost in the mess down at the foot of the table. Better position after the break is important once you start making balls on the break. <hr></blockquote>
I think it's fair to say that most good breakers aim low on the break, but a video would clearly show that they don't hit low. If anything, most will end up hitting a hair high. On a hard break, I'd say that 99% of us drop the elbow for power, therefore raising the tip. By rote, we have conditioned ourselves to aim lower such that the end result is a cueball that "backs up."

I think what really happens is that lower mass ratio (cueball to stack) should bring the cueball back towards the head ball, while the follow stops it from returning all the way back to the rail (or dreaded corner pocket).


To prove this to yourself, aim with a draw stroke at the pack with a medium stroke with the intent to draw the ball. You'll see just how easy it is to get it all the way back to you. Imagine if you were really hitting that low with the power break stroke!

Fred

10-08-2002, 06:29 AM
FRED: Tell him about the "Bounce Factor"....randyg

10-11-2002, 03:09 PM
I think it's fair to say that most good breakers aim low on the break, but a video would clearly show that they don't hit low. If anything, most will end up hitting a hair high. On a hard break, I'd say that 99% of us drop the elbow for power, therefore raising the tip. By rote, we have conditioned ourselves to aim lower such that the end result is a cueball that "backs up."

Yes! This I would like some tips on. Aiming low, and added top spin on it when it connects. How can I practise doing this with greater accuracy.. Right now I use a high bridge with a lvl cue when I break and try to put power and top spin on the cue ball, and even tho I usually pocket I see it's very weak compared to more experienced players. Any suggestions on good webpages on tips would be appriciated too, and a huuuge comprehensible FAQ would be nice /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

ObeOne
10-11-2002, 04:42 PM
I used to have a major problem with the cueball flying off the table on the break. I break with the cueball about 3 inches away from the rail, using a rail bridge. I used have a big follow through in my break, and on a 7 foot table the tip of my cue would end up near the far rail above the rack at the end of my follow through. The cueball would go sailing off the table about half the time.

Now I have almost completely eliminated the problem, improved my breaking accuracy, and gained a ton of control over the cueball just by changing my follow-through. Now when I break, I still start from the same spot, but when I follow through I go straight through the cueball and onto the cloth with the tip. I don't think it's necessary to dig into the cloth so your shaft bends like many people do, but just follow through onto the cloth and see if it helps. The cueball usually jumps straight up in the air and a bit back after contact with the head ball, but it usually dies in the center of the table right when it lands. I've also noticed that the 9 ball goes in more often this way too. I also tend to kick my back leg up when I break, but it's unconsious and probably not important.

--Mike

10-24-2002, 12:22 PM
8 or 9 ther both the same thng about trying to keep the cue ball on the table is that u have to hit the balls witha level stroke and another thng is that if u hit the cue ball with 2much spin it will take a different course we know that by trying the masse or trying to pll shapes on other balls on the table it is physical science , i used to break and the balls and the cue ball would fly off the table evry other time and ending up hitn som body thats not cool frm exp i changed it by practicng following through on the cue ball and hittng the 1st ball in the rack full faced and with a litl bit of bottom and changing my stance , the stanc is evry thng in a good break u know somtims the cue is acually flying before it evn gets to the rack it has nothing to do with hitnm hard as long as u have agood strok and stanc u can slam um