PDA

View Full Version : LLOTER'S TAGLINE "HERO"



DiabloViejo
08-04-2012, 09:18 PM
<span style='font-size: 14pt'><span style="color: #CC0000">Hero, or cowardly murderer? You decide.</span></span>

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>ANTI-ABORTION EXTREMISTS/James Kopp</span>
http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/violence/james_kopp.html

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/James_Charles_Kopp.jpg

On October 23, 1998, abortion provider Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot and killed with a single bullet from a high-powered rifle through the window of his Amherst, NY, home while he was standing in the kitchen with his wife and children nearby. Similar shootings injured Dr. Garson Romalis in Vancouver, BC, on November 8, 1994, Dr. Hugh Short in Ancaster, ON, on November 10, 1995, an unnamed physician in Rochester, NY, on October 28, 1997, and Dr. Jack Fainman in Winnipeg, MB, on November 11, 1997.

<u>History of the Investigation and Kopp's Involvement</u>:

On November 4, 1998, less than two weeks after the murder, a material witness warrant was issued for James Charles Kopp in connection with the shooting death of Dr. Slepian. The warrant was issued in response to reports that Kopp's car was seen in Dr. Slepian's neighborhood in the days prior to the shooting. Kopp's Chevy Cavalier was subsequently found abandoned at the Newark, New Jersey airport on December 18, 1998. It had fake license plates. Kopp is alleged to have fled to Mexico and then to Scotland, Ireland, and France. Jennifer Rock, a friend of Kopp's, testified in a pre-trial hearing that she drove Kopp to Mexico in November 1998 and along the way helped him to disguise his identity.

Kopp was officially charged with Dr. Slepian's murder on May 6, 1999. He was charged with 2nd degree murder in New York1 and was also charged federally with violating the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act by using force to prevent a physician from providing reproductive health care services. Each federal charge carries a maximum penalty of life in prison.

Kopp was placed on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted Fugitive List on June 7, 1999.

The Ontario Police issued an arrest warrant for Kopp on January 24, 2000, for the attempted murder of Dr. Hugh Short, who was shot in his home in November 1995. At that time he was also listed as a "person of interest" in the 1994 Vancouver, BC, shooting of Dr. Garson Romalis, and the 1997 Winnipeg, MB, shooting of Dr. Jack Fainman.

A federal grand jury in New York indicted Kopp in absentia for the murder of Dr. Slepian in October 2000.

Kopp was captured in Dinan, France on March 29, 2001. Prior to his capture, Kopp spent time in Ireland and possibly England and Scotland. Fellow extremists Dennis Malvasi and Loretta Marra were arrested shortly after Kopp for helping him while he was on the run. Kopp was attempting to pick up money that the pair had wired him when he was captured.

Kopp was extradited to the United States on June 5, 2002, after official assurance from the United States that the death penalty would not be sought in this case.

Kopp first retained attorney Paul Cambria to represent him. He then retained attorney Bruce Barket because Barket also had strong anti-abortion views and wanted to make the case about abortion. Cambria simply wanted to defend Kopp on the evidence. Barket was Kopp's attorney in the state murder case, which was being tried first, but a federal judge ruled that Barket could not represent Kopp in the federal trial due to a conflict of interest. Barket also represented Loretta Marra.

After Kopp retained Barket as his attorney, Barket sat with Kopp as he confessed to shooting Dr. Slepian in an interview with the Buffalo News on November 20, 2002. After Kopp confessed to the crime, prosecutors charged him with an additional charge of reckless murder with depraved indifference to human life.

<u>The Evidence</u>:

Witnesses gave statements that they saw someone resembling Kopp jogging near the Slepian home in the days prior to the shooting. Witnesses also saw Kopp's car in Dr. Slepian's neighborhood in the weeks prior to the murder. A hair sample from the crime scene was matched to Kopp from a DNA sample taken from a toothbrush that investigators found in his last apartment. A gun was found buried at the crime scene and was linked to Kopp by the worker at the Tennessee shop that sold Kopp the gun. In addition, Kopp's Chevy was seen crossing into Canada near Niagara Falls after the 1997 Rochester, NY, shooting, and at the Canada/North Dakota border shortly after the 1997 Winnipeg shooting. His car was also seen in the Hamilton, ON, area before the Ancaster shooting.

<u>Kopp's Confession</u>:

James Kopp vehemently denied any involvement in Dr. Slepian's murder for months, going so far as to say that he fled because he believed the police had killed his friend and fellow anti-abortion protester Maurice Lewis and he feared for his own safety. Lewis was found dead in his truck in 1997 in Canada. His death was ruled accidental. Kopp was quoted as saying "I am innocent...I want my innocence recognized as soon as possible." Doris Grady, an associate of Kopp's, provided Kopp an alibi and told the police he could not possibly have purchased a gun in Tennessee at the time authorities allege because he was at her home in Pennsylvania during that time.

However, in an interview with the Buffalo News on November 20, 2002, James Kopp confessed to killing Dr. Slepian.

During the interview Kopp said, "I did it, and I'm admitting it. But I never, ever intended for Dr. Slepian to die." During the same interview, Kopp would not respond to a question regarding his involvement in the four similar shootings - three in Canada and one in the United States - but his attorney, Bruce Barket, said, "We'll defend one shooting at a time."

Referring to abortion providers, Kopp said, "They're still in danger, absolutely. I'm not the first, and I probably won't be the last." He continued, "To pick up a gun and aim it at another human being, and to fire, it's not a human thing to do. It's not nice. It's not pleasant. It's gory, it's bloody. It overcomes every human instinct. The only thing that would be worse, to me, would be to do nothing, and to allow abortions to continue." Kopp claims he wanted to set the record straight for the sake of his supporters who were publicly proclaiming his innocence and saying the FBI had framed him.

Kopp told the reporters that he selected Dr. Slepian's name from the phone book and that he also cased the homes of several other physicians before deciding that Slepian's was the most vulnerable due to a window in the back that faced the woods.

<u>Kopp's State and Federal Trials</u>:

In lieu of a jury trial, Kopp agreed to a bench trial in front of a judge. Both the prosecution and the defense stipulated to a series of facts in the case and these agreed upon facts were presented to the judge on March 17, 2003. The following day the judge pronounced Kopp guilty of second-degree murder based on the facts presented at trial. Kopp was sentenced on May 9, 2003, to the maximum of 25 years to life in prison.

Kopp, serving as his own attorney, was convicted by a federal jury in January 2007 of violating the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances (FACE) Act by killing Dr. Slepian. He was sentenced to life in prison without parole.

<u>Kopp's Previous Arrests</u>:

James Kopp had been arrested on numerous (possibly hundreds of) occasions. His first recorded arrest was in San Francisco, CA, in April 1984. He subsequently had many other arrests in San Francisco and the Bay area for crimes related to clinic protests over the following four years. In November 1986 Kopp was also arrested in Pensacola, FL, while protesting fellow anti-abortion extremist Joan Andrews Bell's (see Associates section) sentencing for a clinic invasion. Kopp and Andrews Bell would later travel the world together protesting abortion.

In July 1988 in Atlanta, GA, Kopp was arrested with many other protesters at an Operation Rescue2 "siege"3 during the Democratic National Convention. The group spent several weeks in jail together and it is believed that many of them formed the Army of God.4 They gave themselves aliases and began writing the Army of God Manual. Among those jailed with Kopp were Lambs of Christ5 leader Norman Weslin, Shelly Shannon, who later shot Dr. George Tiller, and John Arena who was later arrested for committing butyric acid attacks against abortion clinics.

From 1988 through 1991, Kopp was arrested several times at clinic protests throughout the Northeast United States including Binghamton, NY; Pittsburgh, PA; Burlington, VT; Charleston, WV; and Levittown, NY. On several of those occasions he was arrested along with Lambs of Christ leader Norman Weslin and at least once he was arrested with Loretta Marra, who would later be arrested for assisting Kopp while he was on the run from law enforcement officials. After an arrest for trespassing and damaging property in San Jose, CA, in 1993, there seemed to be a lull in Kopp's protest activities. He was not arrested at a clinic again until an invasion in Englewood, NJ, in 1997.

It is thought that Kopp intentionally kept a low profile during the time period that he was allegedly committing the physician shootings in the United States and Canada.

<u>Kopp's Activities and Other Background Info</u>:

James Kopp was born in August 1954. He is a graduate of the University of California Santa Cruz, 1976 and Cal State Fullerton, 1982. He was once a professional trumpeter in California.

In the 1980s he was the President of the Lourdes Foundation, which operated a crisis pregnancy center6 in San Francisco, CA. In addition, he spent time in the 1980s in L'Abri, a retreat founded by fundamentalist Francis Schaeffer in the Swiss Alps, and in the South American missions of the Wycliffe Bible Translators. A devout Roman Catholic, Kopp converted to Catholicism in the mid-1980s and led a life of poverty and celibacy.

In 1986 Kopp joined Mother Theresa's Missionaries of Charity in New York City and worked and lived there for about six months. He then went to Binghamton, New York in 1988 and became a volunteer for Randall Terry in the Operation Rescue office.

For years Kopp traveled with the Lambs of Christ and Operation Rescue and was well known within the extreme anti-abortion movement for developing and using locks that were difficult for the police to remove. He frequently chained himself to doors or tables with locks designed so that it would take hours for law enforcement officials to free him.

Kopp also traveled worldwide, often with Joan Andrews Bell, and protested in Europe, South America, and the Philippines in the early 1990s. He is also known to have traveled to India, Mexico, China, and Kenya. He again joined Andrews Bell and worked at Good Counsel Homes for unwed mothers in Hoboken, NJ, for several months in late 1997 or early 1998. The home is run by Joan Andrews Bell and her husband Chris Bell. He also worked for a Hoboken, NJ, restaurant delivery service from January to June 1998.

Kopp's last known residence before the Slepian shooting was in St. Albans, VT, where he worked in construction.

Kopp's stepmother Lynn Kopp told 60 Minutes II that Kopp had a girlfriend in college with whom he was in love "and then one day she said that she wanted to break up with him and he couldn't accept that. And then she told him that she had an abortion, and it was with...his child. And this, according to his father, is when he picked up his interests in the cause." However, in Kopp's confession to the Buffalo News, he said he and a girlfriend had gone to an abortion clinic, thinking she was pregnant, but she wasn't. He said the moment that changed his life was going to a morgue and seeing a fetus that had been aborted due to birth defects.

<u>Kopp's Close Associates</u>:

John Arena - Arena was jailed with Kopp during the Operation Rescue "siege" in Atlanta, GA, in 1988. He was arrested for committing butyric acid attacks against clinics and was honored at the 1999 White Rose Banquet, hosted by Michael Bray.

Joan Andrews Bell - Andrews Bell has advocated justifiable homicide and is a longtime friend of Kopp (since 1986 when he was arrested in Pensacola protesting her sentencing). Andrews Bell was Kopp's employer at Good Counsel Homes for unwed mothers in Hoboken, NJ run by Andrews Bell and her husband Chris. Andrews Bell and Kopp "rescued"8 together in Europe, South America and the Philippines.

Amy Lynn Boissonneault - Boissonneault was rumored to have been a potential love interest of Kopp's. She visited him while he was in prison in France. There was speculation that she was the reason Kopp was planning to return to the United States (she was seriously ill). She also worked for Good Counsel Homes in New Jersey and was from St. Albans, VT, where Kopp lived prior to Dr. Slepian's murder. Boissonneault passed away in February 2002.

Michael Bray - Bray is an outspoken advocate of justifiable homicide9 and has a criminal record for committing clinic and other arsons, one of which was the NAF office in Washington, DC. He is said to be the Chaplain of the Army of God. He organized a rally in support of Kopp on the 30th anniversary of Roe v. Wade in January 2003 and visited Kopp in jail during that trip.

Doris Grady - Grady is a fellow anti-abortion protester from Pittsburgh, PA, who offered an alibi for Kopp during the time law enforcement authorities believed Kopp traveled to Tennessee to purchase the gun used in the Slepian murder.

Bill Koehler - Koehler is a signer of both justifiable homicide petitions. The petitions endorse the idea of justifiable homicide and were circulated after the murders of two abortion doctors in Pensacola, FL, in the mid-1990s. He said he was a member of Operation Rescue with Kopp and that he'd last seen him several weeks before the murder. Koehler also admitted that there are people who would help a fellow anti-abortion extremist in trouble. He said to the Buffalo News, "It's like the Underground Railroad. You know who's supportive, you know where the safe houses are, but you don't publicize it. Everything is on a need-to-know basis."

Loretta Marra and Dennis Malvasi - The couple was arrested for helping Kopp remain on the run from law enforcement by sending him money. Law enforcement officials have also said they believe the pair were helping Kopp with the logistics of returning to the United States, possibly to commit more crimes. Malvasi has previously served prison time for the fire bombings of clinics in New York City.

Shelly Shannon - Shannon was jailed with Kopp during the Operation Rescue "siege" in Atlanta, GA, in 1988. Shannon is currently in jail for arson and the attempted murder of an abortion provider, NAF member Dr. George Tiller of Wichita, KS.

Randall Terry - Kopp worked with Terry as a volunteer in the Binghamton, New York Operation Rescue office in 1988 when Terry was the leader of that organization. They traveled in the same vehicle together to Atlanta and were jailed together in Atlanta, GA, in 1988.

Norman Weslin - Weslin is the Founder of Lambs of Christ and has been arrested on numerous occasions. He was jailed with Kopp for several months in the early 90s in Vermont and in Atlanta in 1988. He also worked with Kopp in the Bronx.

Jeff White - White has been a member of Operation Rescue West and says he's known Kopp for ten years.

<u>Justifiable Homicide Supporters Who Rallied in Support of Kopp</u>:

In January 2003, Michael Bray and other extremists called for Kopp's supporters to go to Buffalo to rally in support of James Kopp on the anniversary of Roe v. Wade. About a dozen people attended, including Michael Bray, Neal Horsley, Bob Lokey, Jonathon O'Toole, Joshua Graff, Chuck Spingola, Donald Spitz, Linda Wolfe, Bill Koehler, and Adrian Horien. Those who attended the January rally support James Kopp and his violent acts. Most of them are vocal advocates of using violence against abortion providers and many have signed justifiable homicide or "defensive action" petitions.

Following is information on those attending the rally who are not listed in the section of Kopp's Close Associates:

Joshua Graff - Graff is a convicted clinic arsonist with close ties to Michael Bray and was honored at Bray's 1999 White Rose Banquet. He posted and signed a new justifiable homicide petition on his website.

Drew Heiss - Heiss has numerous arrests and convictions for clinic related activities including blockades in the Washington, DC, area and in Milwaukee, WI.

Adrian Horien - Horien publicly declared his belief in justifiable homicide in the media in 2003 and was handing out pro-Kopp literature to potential jurors in front of the courthouse during the jury selection process.

Bob Lokey - Lokey spent twenty years in San Quentin for first-degree murder (not related to the abortion issue). He was profiled in the HBO documentary, "Soldiers in the Army of God," 2001. He manages "Save the Babies" website where he advocates justifiable homicide.

Jonathon O'Toole - O'Toole claims to be a reporter for the Christian Gallery News Service, which is Neal Horsley's organization that takes pictures of people entering and exiting clinics and posts them on the internet. He lived with Neal Horsley and works on Horsley's websites - the Nuremberg Files and Abortion Cams. He was profiled in the HBO documentary, "Soldiers in the Army of God," 2001. O'Toole has made statements indicating his internal anguish over whether or not to take direct action against abortion.

Chuck Spingola - Spingola protests regularly and has numerous arrests relating to anti-gay activities, but is also a close associate of Matt Trewhella, justifiable homicide supporter and leader of the anti-abortion extremist group Missionaries to the Preborn. He attended Bray's White Rose Banquet in 2001 and was handing out pro-Kopp literature to potential jurors in front of the courthouse during the jury selection process.

Donald Spitz - Spitz was found guilty of blockading a clinic in Norfolk, VA, in 1990. He manages the Army of God website, which posted Clayton Waagner's threats to kill clinic staff. Spitz was a vocal supporter of John Salvi's shooting rampages that left two clinic workers dead and five injured at two Brookline, MA, clinics.

Linda Wolfe - Wolfe was involved in maintaining the "Prisoner's of Christ" network, which offers emotional and financial support to those in prison for committing acts of violence against abortion providers as well as for their families. Wolfe has corresponded with Neal Horsley and has an article published on his website.

<u>References</u>:

In New York first-degree murder is reserved for specific cases such as killing a police officer. Second-degree murder is a capitol crime in New York.

Operation Rescue is an anti-abortion activist group that has engaged in illegal activities such as physically blockading clinics in order to prevent patients and staff from entering the facilities.

"Siege" is the term used by anti-abortion extremists to describe a large group of people protesting at and physically blockading a clinic or clinics, usually over a period of several days.

The Army of God is an underground group of anti-abortion extremists who believe that it is justifiable to use deadly force to stop abortion. The Army of God has claimed responsibility for arsons, bombings and murders.

The Lambs of Christ is a group of anti-abortion extremists who travel widely across the country to physically block women from entering abortion clinics. They often use the tactic of locking themselves to clinics in intricate ways in order to make it difficult to remove them.

Crisis Pregnancy Centers (CPCs) are designed to misinform and intimidate women to prevent them from having abortions. Women have described being harassed, bullied, and given blatantly false information. They have complained that their confidentiality has been violated, and that treatment by CPCs has endangered their health.

Kopp's associates are listed because they are part of a network of extremists who assist those who need housing, money and other help when committing acts of violence. Many of them have also been directly involved in anti-abortion crimes.

"Rescue" is the term used by anti-abortion extremists to describe protesting, sidewalk counseling and often illegal means such as blockading, to try to stop women from obtaining abortions.

Justifiable homicide is the term used by anti-abortion extremists who believe it is justifiable to use deadly force to stop abortion.

DiabloViejo
08-04-2012, 09:24 PM
"Kopp known as a radical". The Hamilton Spectator: p. A1. November 5, 1998. "It was in Atlanta that Kopp got his nickname "Atomic Dog," which was later featured in the acknowledgments of a manual showing anti- abortionists how to <u>build bombs, make explosives and cut off the thumbs of abortion doctors</u>. The manual was circulated by a loose association of extremists who called themselves the Army of God."

Hero or terrorist? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

Qtec
08-05-2012, 02:20 AM
Terrorist, no doubt about that.

Q

Gayle in MD
08-05-2012, 05:26 AM
A domestic terrorist, supported by other domestic terrorists, and by the Bush Administration.

It's a fact that during Bush, law enforcement ignored enforcing the FACE law. The information is on the SPLC website, along with up-dates on more murders of doctors and employees of abortion centers.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">'depraved indifference to human life.'

</div></div>

Describes the horrors of much of the recent legislation pushed through by radical Republicans serving on The HIll right now, and in state legislature across this country.

The value of a woman's life has been under attack by the Republican Party for decades. They have now expanded their homophobic needs to efforts to remove women's rights to birth control!

G.

DiabloViejo
08-05-2012, 12:22 PM
<span style='font-size: 17pt'>lloter: "...James Kopp, A real Hero and martyr."</span>

I find lloter's silence to be quite revealing. Neither he, nor any one of our rabid right wing lunatic fringe contingent, have come to the defense of Kopp, whom they consider "a <u>hero</u> and a <u>martyr</u>". Maybe they are taking heed of Abe Lincoln's advice: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

BTW, funny how all the fundamentalist religious kooks (Christian and Muslim) like to bandy around those words "hero" and "martyr" when they are really speaking of terrorist murderers. What's up with that? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

LWW
08-05-2012, 12:46 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Terrorist, no doubt about that.

Q </div></div>

I concur.

hondo
08-05-2012, 03:31 PM
looootttteeeerrrr, where are you?

Even larry wilson agrees with the normal folks on this one.

hondo
08-05-2012, 03:31 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Terrorist, no doubt about that.

Q </div></div>

I concur. </div></div>

There's hope for you yet.

Your pal, Bubba Bodine. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

llotter
08-05-2012, 05:11 PM
A few more heroes like Kopp and abortions might become a thing of the past.

LWW
08-05-2012, 05:17 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A few more heroes like Kopp and abortions might become a thing of the past. </div></div>

I am not a member of the pro death crowd ... but terrorism is the use of violence to make a political change, hence Koop is a terrorist.

LWW
08-05-2012, 05:18 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Terrorist, no doubt about that.

Q </div></div>

I concur. </div></div>

There's hope for you yet.

Your pal, Bubba Bodine. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>

Yet you refuse to denounce terrorists who use it to promote a leftist agenda?

eg8r
08-05-2012, 05:27 PM
He is a cowardly murderer that deserves having the book thrown at him.

eg8r

eg8r
08-05-2012, 05:29 PM
Kopp is the perfect example of why abortion should be allowed. Had his mother had the guts to do what was right when she had a chance we would not have to worry about that psycho. If we could only figure out what type of psycho the baby will turn into and get rid of him right away then we might be on to something.

eg8r &lt;~~~would never advocate abortion, EVER, but there are some people that go out of their way to prove the usefulness

hondo
08-05-2012, 09:15 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He is a cowardly murderer that deserves having the book thrown at him.

eg8r </div></div>

Thank you, Eg. The fact that you and larry have spoken out for what is right raises both of you in my opinion. ( Not that you care. But still). /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Thanks for being honest.

hondo
08-05-2012, 09:16 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Terrorist, no doubt about that.

Q </div></div>

I concur. </div></div>

There's hope for you yet.

Your pal, Bubba Bodine. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>

Yet you refuse to denounce terrorists who use it to promote a leftist agenda? </div></div>

Give me an example and I'll give you my opinion. That's all that I can do.

hondo
08-05-2012, 09:16 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Kopp is the perfect example of why abortion should be allowed. Had his mother had the guts to do what was right when she had a chance we would not have to worry about that psycho. If we could only figure out what type of psycho the baby will turn into and get rid of him right away then we might be on to something.

eg8r &lt;~~~would never advocate abortion, EVER, but there are some people that go out of their way to prove the usefulness </div></div>


/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

hondo
08-05-2012, 09:20 PM
Fats, I have tried for the past years to get those on the right to speak out against lotter's reprehensible signature.
They finally have. Better late than never and it gives me hope that there is some sanity on the right.

llotter
08-06-2012, 08:21 AM
You are probably correct if it was only a political point that Kopp was making but stopping a doctor who makes his living by killing before he kills again is justifiable and morally right.

I wonder how all these PC types that hide behind the color of law and turn their eyes from the evil of mass murder would react to someone who tried to stop Hitler's death camps by using violence? Was it PC to kill the Jews then as it is now to kill the poor who can't afford those babies, especially since most are dark skinned? What exactly is the excuse for introducing and accepting this evil into our culture?

So, it turns out and shouldn't surprise anyone, that many late term abortions are actually done post-birth, an overt murder under anyone's definition, b/c it is easier and safer...but nobody cares since their conscience has been hardened to accept baby killing as a modern norm, a 'necessary evil'.

I hope those who continue to let evil triumph can take comfort in receiving praise from across the aisle from the likes of hondo and his brethren.

I wonder how such killers square their actions with the Hippocratic Oath.

Gayle in MD
08-06-2012, 08:41 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are probably correct if it was only a political point that Kopp was making but stopping a doctor who makes his living by killing before he kills again is justifiable and morally right.

I wonder how all these PC types that hide behind the color of law and turn their eyes from the evil of mass murder would react to someone who tried to stop Hitler's death camps by using violence? Was it PC to kill the Jews then as it is now to kill the poor who can't afford those babies, especially since most are dark skinned? What exactly is the excuse for introducing and accepting this evil into our culture?

So, it turns out and shouldn't surprise anyone, that many late term abortions are actually done post-birth, an overt murder under anyone's definition, b/c it is easier and safer...but nobody cares since their conscience has been hardened to accept baby killing as a modern norm, a 'necessary evil'.

I hope those who continue to let evil triumph can take comfort in receiving praise from across the aisle from the likes of hondo and his brethren.

I wonder how such killers square their actions with the Hippocratic Oath.

</div></div>

You possess no ability to decipher the difference between reality and your personal views and pepetual lies.

Abortion is not murder. Murder is illegal in this country.

A fetus is not a human being.

There are no late term abortions in this country unless the fetus is morbidly ill and malformed, or the woman who carries the fetus cannot survive bringing the fetus to term.

Living babies are not killed by Doctors.

People like you are a true threat to all people in our society. You are under the gross self-delusion that your reality is THE REALITY.

That is proof of a range of psychological disorders, from sociopathic personality disorder to narcissistic personality disorder, unrealistic views about your own qualities and little regard for others.

Additionally, our country relies on our laws, and those who take the law into their own hands, thinking themselves as judge and jury, with the right to decide who can be justifiably murdered, or praise and justify others for doing so, are a threat to the peace and safety of all Americans.

Anyone who would encourage your emotionally unstable views, would have to be as mentally ill as you so obviously are yourself.



G.

LWW
08-06-2012, 09:14 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fats, I have tried for the past years to get those on the right to speak out against lotter's reprehensible signature.
They finally have. Better late than never and it gives me hope that there is some sanity on the right. </div></div>

It's a shame you don't pay attention.

BTW ... were you invited to the coronation ceremony?

llotter
08-06-2012, 10:00 AM
Calling a baby a fetus is equivalent to Jews being called poisonous parasite, unworthy of any more rights than a fly.

And, yes, those late term providers oven murdered the babies post-birth and of course, many were aware of this practice but, like there fellow Germans, simply closed their eyes as you are doing by refusing to see the obvious.

I still don't understand why we want to make abortions a legitimate aspect of our culture.

LWW
08-06-2012, 11:19 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Calling a baby a fetus is equivalent to Jews being called poisonous parasite, unworthy of any more rights than a fly.

And, yes, those late term providers oven murdered the babies post-birth and of course, many were aware of this practice but, like there fellow Germans, simply closed their eyes as you are doing by refusing to see the obvious.

I still don't understand why we want to make abortions a legitimate aspect of our culture. </div></div>

It's worse than that , even most NAZI party members didn't know about the "FINAL SOLUTION" ... great pains were taken to build camps far from population centers, build the crematoria in general downwind locations from the nearest village, build them with cheerful entrances and fake "JEWISH VILLAGE" surrounding it.

The pro death crowd encourages and openly promotes their death industry.

A sad little fact is that te primary reason FDR's Social Security Ponzi scheme is collapsing ahead of schedule is that huge numbers of the taxpayers needed to fund it were aborted.

The US is the only western power with a native citizen birthrate sufficient to maintain a minimum of zero growth ... Europe has had to bring in millions f immigrants, Germany admits it will soon be an Islamic state, Japan is building robots to give emotional comfort to the elderly.

Statism always brings with it massive numbers of dead.

hondo
08-06-2012, 12:18 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are probably correct if it was only a political point that Kopp was making but stopping a doctor who makes his living by killing before he kills again is justifiable and morally right.

I wonder how all these PC types that hide behind the color of law and turn their eyes from the evil of mass murder would react to someone who tried to stop Hitler's death camps by using violence? Was it PC to kill the Jews then as it is now to kill the poor who can't afford those babies, especially since most are dark skinned? What exactly is the excuse for introducing and accepting this evil into our culture?

So, it turns out and shouldn't surprise anyone, that many late term abortions are actually done post-birth, an overt murder under anyone's definition, b/c it is easier and safer...but nobody cares since their conscience has been hardened to accept baby killing as a modern norm, a 'necessary evil'.

I hope those who continue to let evil triumph can take comfort in receiving praise from across the aisle from the likes of hondo and his brethren.

I wonder how such killers square their actions with the Hippocratic Oath.

</div></div>

Only in your wacky twisted world is someone who objects to cold -blooded murder being "PC." What a twisted fukk you are!

hondo
08-06-2012, 12:21 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fats, I have tried for the past years to get those on the right to speak out against lotter's reprehensible signature.
They finally have. Better late than never and it gives me hope that there is some sanity on the right. </div></div>

It's a shame you don't pay attention.

BTW ... were you invited to the coronation ceremony? </div></div>

Oh, I pay too much attention. This is why I annoy you so much.

hondo
08-06-2012, 12:23 PM
lotter, did you notice that the 2 most radical right wingers on this forum are appalled at your beliefs?

Stretch
08-07-2012, 12:25 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">lotter, did you notice that the 2 most radical right wingers on this forum are appalled at your beliefs? </div></div>

I don't want to be any where around, when either of those two nut bars finally snaps. There's too much of that going on now. They don't have access to automatic weapons do they? ...........St.

Gayle in MD
08-07-2012, 12:45 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Calling a baby a fetus is equivalent to Jews being called poisonous parasite, unworthy of any more rights than a fly.

<span style="color: #990000">TOTALLY OUTRAGEOUS COMMENT! </span>

And, yes, those late term providers oven murdered the babies post-birth and of course, many were aware of this practice but, like there fellow Germans, simply closed their eyes as you are doing by refusing to see the obvious.

<span style="color: #990000">NOT TRUE!~ </span>

I still don't understand why we want to make abortions a legitimate aspect of our culture. </div></div>

<span style="color: #990000">I DON'T UNDERSTANT WHY YOU THINK YOUR HAVE A RIGHT TO DICTATE TO OTHERS WHAT THEY MAY OR MAY NOT DO IN THEIR PERSONAL LIVES, AND PRAISE A MURDERING COWARD! </span>

<span style="color: #990000">And apparently you think that anyone who has a different point of view from the proprganda you've slurpped up your whole life, should be assassinated by one of your heroes.

What you are missing of course, is that what happenes between a woman and her family and her doctor, is none of your, or anyone else's business.

YOu miss enntirely that we in America, who are PSYCHOLOGICALLY well adjusted, value human rights, and respect the laws of our land, regardless of differeing personal views.

We understand that our laws exist to protect the rights of ALL those with whom we MIGHT disagreement, as well as our own.

Domestic terrorists deprive ALL AMERICANS of our rights as assured in our Constitution, personal rights to privacy, autonomy, the liberty making our own choices in life, and of enjoying peace of mind, safety and freedom.

Ignorance is the enemy of tolerance.

Misogyny has always been the way of the radicals, the demons and the wannabe dictators.

Your mission is to learn how to live in a world full of others who do not think as you think, and to know your place in that world and understand that you are not the supreme judge and jury of the lives and choices of others.

IOW, mind your own business.

You are painfully unaware of all of the medical reasons why abortions are necessary and at times also the most rational choice in the best interests of entire families, and sometimes the most humane, life saving, reasonable option, hence the choice of women, their families, and their doctors, and absolutely no one else's business.</span> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Calling a baby a fetus is equivalent to Jews being called poisonous parasite, unworthy of any more rights than a fly.

</div></div>

<span style="color: #990000">No it is not. Calling a fetus by the correct term, is what educated people do.

Calling a fetus a baby is incorrect, the same way that callig a murderer a hero, is incorrect, and it is exactly what uneducated, irrational people do in order that they may use drama and exploitation of the weak, the ill and the irrational.

G.</span>

DiabloViejo
08-07-2012, 02:21 AM
Surely an educated man, one blessed by possession of a "massive intellect" (and great stores of humility), would recognize the logical fallacy that lloter has as the basis for a woefully inadequate defense of his (lloter's) anti abortion case. Now surely, that same gifted fellow, would presumably know that coming to the defense of a logically fallacious argument would be well..illogical. N'est-ce pas, mon ami? I leave it to your prodigious powers of perception and cogitation.. to deduce which specific logical fallacy. I will patiently await your well thought out and, no doubt, kind and considered response.

hondo
08-07-2012, 08:55 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DiabloViejo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Surely an educated man, one blessed by possession of a "massive intellect" (and great stores of humility), would recognize the logical fallacy that lloter has as the basis for a woefully inadequate defense of his (lloter's) anti abortion case. Now surely, that same gifted fellow, would presumably know that coming to the defense of a logically fallacious argument would be well..illogical. N'est-ce pas, mon ami? I leave it to your prodigious powers of perception and cogitation.. to deduce which specific logical fallacy. I will patiently await your well thought out and, no doubt, kind and considered response. </div></div>

In fairness to larry wilson, he has already spoken out against lotter's stance.
I keep hoping that if I give wilson his due he will be fair to us in return.
Of course he has disappointed me time and again in the past.