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View Full Version : Why did the regime betray middle class retirees?



LWW
08-08-2012, 08:05 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A series of emails between U.S. Treasury Department and Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. employees show that the decision to effectively cut the pensions of Delphi salaried retirees “was a political decision, not a financial decision,” U.S. Rep. Mike Turner said Tuesday.

The 2009 decision stemmed from General Motors Corp.'s bankruptcy and affected the pensions of about 700 Dayton-area Delphi retirees. Some salaried retirees saw their pensions cut by as much as 70 percent, while hourly retirees represented by unions had their pensions made whole.

The emails, published Tuesday on the Daily Caller website, provide “additional impetus for future hearings and inquiries to require the administration to release documents,” said Turner, R-Centerville, a member of the U.S. House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.

Turner said: “We now have evidence that the administration has not been telling the truth.”

The Obama campaign issued a statement Tuesday saying the Delphi pensions had been handled properly.

“Corporate bankruptcies are tragic, and often lead to the loss of pension benefits. But the fact is that the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation handled the Delphi salaried pension plan according to its standard procedure and the law. What's more, the GAO, an independent, nonpartisan investigative agency, has determined that these decisions were not made by the administration and ... to politicize the situation at Delphi is insensitive,” said Jessica Kershaw, spokeswoman for Obama for America-Ohio.

U.S. Rep. Steve Austria, R-Beavercreek, said Tuesday the emails show “that this administration has placed itself in the position of picking winners and losers by using the federal Treasury and basing the decision upon political philosophy rather than fairness.”

“The truth is starting to emerge,” Washington Twp. resident Tom Rose told the Dayton Daily News Tuesday. Rose is a salaried Delphi retiree who spent 30 years working for GM and nine years working for Delphi.

The Daily Caller said it obtained emails from Treasury and the PBGC allegedly showing that Treasury, not the independent PBGC, ultimately controlled the decision to take over Delphi pensions. In a House Oversight Committee hearing in November at Sinclair Community College, Vincent Snowbarger, PBGC deputy director for operations , testified that different treatment of pensions was a result of decisions made by General Motors, which at one time owned Delphi and continued to be Delphi's biggest customer.

“These emails showed that GM gave a rubber stamp (to pension decisions),” Turner said Tuesday.

The Obama campaign said Tuesday that Turner's comments were politically based.

*The Treasury Department on Tuesday reiterated what the department has long held, that “the termination of the Delphi salaried pension plan was made by the PBGC in accordance with its standard procedures and applicable laws — not by Treasury.

“Although the Delphi bankruptcy was very difficult for its employees and retirees, the actions Treasury took to support the American auto industry helped save more than a million American jobs during a period of economic crisis,” Treasury said.

Treasury spokesman Matt Anderson also cited a December 2011 Government Accounting Office report that said in part, “the steps taken to terminate the plans and reduce some benefits according to statutory limits are consistent with PBGC's usual actions when terminating large plans.”

The Daily Caller said the emails show that PBGC officials sought to keep Treasury informed of movement toward a decision on the* pensions. The emails also showed that Treasury kept PBGC counterparts out of its own discussions on the issues, the story said. For example, the story said a series of April 2009 emails showed that Treasury officials “disinvited” PBGC staffers from a meeting in which pension issues were to be discussed. The Daily Caller said excluding the PBGC from such a meeting was likely a violation of a federal law.*

The Daily Caller is* generally conservative in outlook and co-founded by Tucker Carlson, a former co-host of CNN's “Crossfire” talk show. Matthew Boyle, the story's author, said he could not discuss how he obtained the emails.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/decision-cut-pensions-political-decision-emails-sh/nQDBg/
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Secretaries, security guards, engineers, accountants, all ... BETRAYED (http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/decision-cut-pensions-political-decision-emails-sh/nQDBg/) by the regime.

Soflasnapper
08-08-2012, 10:01 AM
The more obvious question is, DID the regime betray the middle class retirees in question?

That it did is supported by the one or two named Republican House members, and the highly partisan The Daily Caller.

That it did not is apparently supported by the GAO, and also, the normal guidelines of the PBGC.

So you will excuse the suspension of consideration of the question you raise, for the consideration of the question whether that actually is the fact, first.

As it does sound like something within the purview of the House Oversight Committee, I suspect we'll have some better information from the hearings when they transpire. Until such more complete information is available, we must judge this as an 'I' for incomplete, awaiting the results of the final exam so to speak.

Unless you want to grant complete trust to sources with an admitted partisan ax to grind, which would be your right, but also your error.

Soflasnapper
08-08-2012, 10:24 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ohio Republican Rep. Mike Turner told The Daily Caller <span style='font-size: 17pt'>he thinks </span>President Barack Obama’s Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner is ultimately responsible for the decision that terminated pensions for 20,000 non-union workers at Delphi during the auto bailout.

Turner – the congressman who has been leading the charge in pushing for answers and accountability with regard to the Obama administration’s termination of those pensions – <span style='font-size: 17pt'>said he thinks Geithner is the one who’s ultimately to blame.</span>

Turner has argued before that Geithner played multiple roles in this process. He was, of course, the Treasury Secretary, was a member of the president’s Auto Task Force bailout team and was a board member of the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC). Those associations gave Geithner had a triple role in the decision – something Turner and other members of congress have described as a “conflict of interest.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/07/rep-tu.../#ixzz22yKWzq74 (http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/07/rep-turner-blames-geithner-for-delphi-pensions-decision-calls-for-pension-restoration/#ixzz22yKWzq74)
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There's your evidence. One guy THINKS this is the case. Thinks the PBGC didn't REALLY make this decision because Geithner has a seat on that panel. This confuses the Congressman, badly.

What's funny is that the right and the GOP adamantly opposed anyone getting their pensions paid, and would have applauded all of them getting nothing.

And, of course, it's ironic that one of the Romney/Bain acquisitions later had the pensions of their workforce paid for by the PBGC at a very reduced rate, after Bain underfunded the pension fund and were under notice and complain that they were underfunding it. Although those workers did receive over $40 million from the government's pension guarantee board, that was a small fraction of what their plans promised.

hondo
08-08-2012, 11:52 AM
The more Obama acts like a Republican, the more you guys bitch. That ole boy can't win.

eg8r
08-08-2012, 01:18 PM
LOL, I think it is just funny to see you pull your head out of the sand and recognize Obama for what he really is and accept the fact that you were fooled.

eg8r

hondo
08-08-2012, 01:36 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL, I think it is just funny to see you pull your head out of the sand and recognize Obama for what he really is and accept the fact that you were fooled.

eg8r </div></div>

Almost as funny as 8 years after Bush was elected twice, and defended hundreds of thousands of times for every asinine decision he made, reading wilson and the klan saying with a staightface that they never liked him.

eg8r
08-08-2012, 02:28 PM
Maybe so but after all those years of you posting about everything W did wrong and then turning around and voting (D) only to get exactly the same is even funnier.

eg8r

hondo
08-08-2012, 02:35 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe so but after all those years of you posting about everything W did wrong and then turning around and voting (D) only to get exactly the same is even funnier.

eg8r </div></div>
I'm glad that you are amused at the state of our country?

LWW
08-08-2012, 02:39 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The more Obama acts like a Republican, the more you guys bitch. That ole boy can't win. </div></div>

Why the racist comment?

LWW
08-08-2012, 02:48 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The more obvious question is, DID the regime betray the middle class retirees in question?

That it did is supported by the one or two named Republican House members, and the highly partisan The Daily Caller. </div></div>

Actually ... (http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/07/emails-geithner-treasury-drove-cutoff-of-non-union-delphi-workers-pensions/2)

the emails ... (http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/07/emails-geithner-treasury-drove-cutoff-of-non-union-delphi-workers-pensions/3)

Tell the story ... not that you won't still shamelessly defend the regime.

LWW
08-08-2012, 02:50 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe so but after all those years of you posting about everything W did wrong and then turning around and voting (D) only to get exactly the same is even funnier.

eg8r </div></div>
I'm glad that you are amused at the state of our country? </div></div>

I'm saddened that you begged for the country to be in this state.

eg8r
08-08-2012, 03:13 PM
I am amused at your stupidity. I guess you were unable to figure out the difference. I have been advocating the removal of Obama the entire time.

eg8r

hondo
08-08-2012, 03:17 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The more Obama acts like a Republican, the more you guys bitch. That ole boy can't win. </div></div>

Why the racist comment? </div></div>

The way you constantly say "y'all" I mistakenly assumed you were from the South. Every Southerner knows that "ole boy" is what we say without any thought of prejudice. Obviously you didn't know this and ,thus, your "y'all" bullshit comes across as extremely pretentious.

hondo
08-08-2012, 03:21 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am amused at your stupidity. I guess you were unable to figure out the difference. I have been advocating the removal of Obama the entire time.

eg8r </div></div>

And I am constantly amazed at your stupidity and inability to comprehend even the most obvious of posts.
Looks like we're two amazing guys, eg. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Soflasnapper
08-08-2012, 03:30 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The more obvious question is, DID the regime betray the middle class retirees in question?

That it did is supported by the one or two named Republican House members, and the highly partisan The Daily Caller. </div></div>

Actually ... (http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/07/emails-geithner-treasury-drove-cutoff-of-non-union-delphi-workers-pensions/2)

the emails ... (http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/07/emails-geithner-treasury-drove-cutoff-of-non-union-delphi-workers-pensions/3)

Tell the story ... not that you won't still shamelessly defend the regime. </div></div>

There is actually nothing there. Through interpolation not supported by these emails, they imagine there might be.

Hence, the GOP guy says he 'thinks,' not that he knows, or has any evidence whatsoever. They may have a thread they can pull on to see what happens, that's all.

Key admission:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
August 8, 2012

It’s unclear how many additional meetings about the Delphi pensions took place, and whether PBGC staff were invited to participate in them.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/07/emails.../#ixzz22zb4J7vc (http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/07/emails-geithner-treasury-drove-cutoff-of-non-union-delphi-workers-pensions/#ixzz22zb4J7vc)
</div></div>

They should also have added, whether PBGC staff deliberated and made this decision is also unclear. Not that it IS clear they did NOT, because that isn't supported in the body of these e-mails.

Over-excited GOP Congressmen and the horribly hackish Daily Caller do not constitute proof of much of anything.

LWW
08-08-2012, 03:39 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am amused at your stupidity. I guess you were unable to figure out the difference. I have been advocating the removal of Obama the entire time.

eg8r </div></div>

Sadly, his history has taught me to expect nothing less.

eg8r
08-08-2012, 07:15 PM
Amazing. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

eg8r

hondo
08-09-2012, 07:04 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The more Obama acts like a Republican, the more you guys bitch. That ole boy can't win. </div></div>

Why the racist comment? </div></div>

The way you constantly say "y'all" I mistakenly assumed you were from the South. Every Southerner knows that "ole boy" is what we say without any thought of prejudice. Obviously you didn't know this and ,thus, your "y'all" bullshit comes across as extremely pretentious. </div></div>

Y'all ever notice that larry usually can find only a few posts that he can think of something to respond to and he ignores the rest. This is your leader, eg and sev. Pretty pathetic, "y'all."

At least little eggie responds every time even if it is ignorant and has nothing to do with the subject.