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Qtec
08-19-2012, 03:23 AM
I kid you not.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">“I’ve been in Congress for a number of years,” he told Cameron. “That’s more experience than Barack Obama had when he came into office.”

“<span style='font-size: 20pt'>I voted to send people to war</span>,” </div></div>

WOW. A real expert on Foreign Policy then!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Q

Gayle in MD
08-19-2012, 06:55 AM
Guess he figures that's all the Military Industrial/Repiglican/Congressional Complex needs to hear!

IMHO, among the very worst statements made so far by this team of ignoramuses is their stated policy of incresing deficit spending in DEFENSE!!!

They want Americans to starve, die on the streets sick and hungry, to that they can RAISE tax cuts for the wealthy, AND continue spending and wasting more money in the corrupt defense contracting industry.

Will the flyovers ever wake up?

G.

eg8r
08-20-2012, 08:25 AM
Wait, when did you care about Foreign Policy experience when referring to the candidates for POTUS?

eg8r

Soflasnapper
08-20-2012, 01:05 PM
That's why Biden was chosen, although Obama had academic concentration in international relations under the tutelage and patronage of Zbieg Bzrzinski, former United States National Security Advisor while at Columbia.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He majored in PoliSci, and concentrated in "International Relations," (now International Politics - this is a subfield of the PoliSci major and should not be confused with a "concentration," the Columbia term that substitutes for what most schools term a "minor").

Obama's professors and classmates, including former international politics professor Michael Baron and current MTV president Michael Wolf, confirm that he was a brilliant, standout student and that he was an active participant in seminars. Baron said he was one of the top one or two students in his class.

Sources first differed on whether he wrote his senior thesis on Soviet nuclear disarmament[7] or the North-South debate on trade and the "new international economic order"[8] </div></div>

So Obama had done significant study concentrating on international relations.

What did Biden bring to the table in terms of international relations?

A very long term seat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, including both as ranking member and chairman.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Foreign Relations Committee

Biden was also a long-time member of the U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations. In 1997, he became the ranking minority member and chaired the committee in January 2001 and from June 2001 through 2003. When Democrats re-took control of the Senate following the 2006 elections, Biden again assumed the top spot on the committee in 2007.[66] Biden was generally a liberal internationalist in foreign policy.[67][68] He collaborated effectively with important Republican Senate figures such as Richard Lugar and Jesse Helms and sometimes went against elements of his own party.[66][67] Biden was also co-chair of the NATO Observer Group in the Senate.[69] A partial list covering this time showed Biden meeting with some 150 leaders from nearly 60 countries and international organizations.[70] Biden held frequent hearings as chair of the committee, as well as holding many subcommittee hearings during the three times he chaired the Subcommittee on European Affairs.[68]

During his first decade in the Senate, Biden focused on arms control issues.[68][71] In response to the refusal of the U.S. Congress to ratify the SALT II Treaty signed in 1979 by Soviet leader Leonid Brezhnev and President Jimmy Carter, Biden took the initiative to meet the Soviet Foreign Minister Andrei Gromyko, educated him about American concerns and interests, and secured several changes to address objections of the Foreign Relations Committee.[72] When the Reagan administration wanted to interpret the 1972 SALT I Treaty loosely in order to allow the Strategic Defense Initiative to proceed, Biden argued for strict adherence to the treaty's terms.[68] Biden clashed again with the Reagan administration in 1986 over economic sanctions against South Africa, leading to a heated exchange between the senator and Secretary of State George P. Shultz.[71]

Biden became interested in the Yugoslav Wars after hearing about Serbian abuses during the Croatian War of Independence in 1991.[68] Once the Bosnian War broke out, Biden was among the first to call for the "lift and strike" policy of lifting the arms embargo, training Bosnian Muslims and supporting them with NATO air strikes, and investigating war crimes.[66][68] Both the George H. W. Bush administration and Clinton administration were reluctant to implement the policy, fearing Balkan entanglement.[67][68] In April 2003, Biden spent a week in the Balkans and held a tense three-hour meeting with Serbian leader Slobodan Milošević.[73] Biden related that he told Milošević, "I think you're a damn war criminal and you should be tried as one."[73] Biden wrote an amendment in 1992 to compel the Bush administration to arm the Bosnians, but deferred in 1994 to a somewhat softer stance preferred by the Clinton administration, before signing on the following year to a stronger measure sponsored by Bob Dole and Joe Lieberman.[73] The 1995 NATO bombing campaign in Bosnia and Herzegovina then led to the Dayton Agreement and a successful NATO peacekeeping effort.[68] Biden has called his role in affecting Balkans policy in the mid-1990s his "proudest moment in public life" that related to foreign policy.[67] In 1999, during the Kosovo War, Biden supported the NATO bombing campaign against Serbia and Montenegro,[68] and co-sponsored with his friend John McCain the McCain-Biden Kosovo Resolution, which called on President Clinton to use all necessary force, including ground troops, to confront Milosevic over Serbian actions in Kosovo.[67][74] In 1998, Congressional Quarterly named Biden one of "Twelve Who Made a Difference" for playing a lead role in several foreign policy matters, including NATO enlargement and the successful passage of bills to streamline foreign affairs agencies and punish religious persecution overseas.[49]
Biden gives his opening statement and questions to U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker and General David Petraeus at the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Hearing on Iraq, September 11, 2007

Biden had voted against authorization for the Gulf War in 1991,[67] siding with 45 of the 55 Democratic senators; he said the U.S. was bearing almost all the burden in the anti-Iraq coalition.[75] Biden was a strong supporter of the 2001 war in Afghanistan, saying "Whatever it takes, we should do it."[76] Regarding Iraq, Biden stated in 2002 that Saddam Hussein was a threat to national security, and that there was no option but to eliminate that threat.[77] The Bush administration rejected an effort Biden undertook with Senator Richard Lugar to pass a resolution authorizing military action only after the exhaustion of diplomatic efforts. In October 2002, Biden voted in favor of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq, justifying the Iraq War.[67] While he soon became a critic of the war and viewed his vote as a "mistake", he did not push to require a U.S. withdrawal.[67][73] He supported the appropriations to pay for the occupation, but argued repeatedly that the war should be internationalized, that more soldiers were needed, and that the Bush administration should "level with the American people" about the cost and length of the conflict.[66][74]

By late 2006, Biden's stance had shifted, and he opposed the troop surge of 2007,[67][73] saying General David Petraeus was "dead, flat wrong" in believing the surge could work.[76] Biden was instead a leading advocate for dividing Iraq into a loose federation of three ethnic states.[78] In November 2006, Biden and Leslie H. Gelb, President Emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, released a comprehensive strategy to end sectarian violence in Iraq.[79] Rather than continuing the present approach or withdrawing, the plan called for "a third way": federalizing Iraq and giving Kurds, Shiites, and Sunnis "breathing room" in their own regions.[80] In September 2007, a non-binding resolution passed the Senate endorsing such a scheme.[79] However, the idea was unfamiliar, had no political constituency, and failed to gain traction.[76] Iraq’s political leadership united in denouncing the resolution as a de facto partitioning of the country, and the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad issued a statement distancing itself.[79]

In March 2004, Biden secured the brief release of Libyan democracy activist and political prisoner Fathi Eljahmi, after meeting with leader Muammar Gaddafi in Tripoli.[81][82] In May 2008, Biden sharply criticized President George W. Bush for his speech to Israel's Knesset in which he suggested that some Democrats were acting in the same way some Western leaders did when they appeased Hitler in the runup to World War II. Biden stated: "This is bullshit. This is malarkey. This is outrageous. Outrageous for the president of the United States to go to a foreign country, sit in the Knesset ... and make this kind of ridiculous statement." Biden later apologized for using the expletive. Biden further stated, "Since when does this administration think that if you sit down, you have to eliminate the word 'no' from your vocabulary?"[83]</div></div>

The upshot of all the foregoing is that Biden had direct hands-on experience with foreign policy for decades, including direct interactions with foreign leaders all around the world.

So any idea that either Romney or Ryan, or the two of them together, come anywheres close to the international relations experience of Biden ALONE, or of Obama + Biden, is pitifully ignorant of the respective histories of these men.

eg8r
08-20-2012, 01:51 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's why Biden was chosen, although Obama had academic concentration in international relations under the tutelage and patronage of Zbieg Bzrzinski, former United States National Security Advisor while at Columbia.</div></div>LOL, I guess you are the only one from the left with a spine to admit Obama was less experienced.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
08-20-2012, 04:42 PM
Obama was less experienced than Biden on that score. It's among the reasons he chose Biden.

Similar to Reagan/Bush the Wiser, or Bush the Wiser/Cheney.

It's smart for a presidential candidate to know his relative weaknesses and shore them up with the veep's experience.

How an international relations naif like Romney thought Ryan a good fit is explained by the arrogance of entitlement and a ton of cash, by which he plans to swamp the general election as he did, without having more merit, in the primaries. Carpet bomb the opponent with a deluge of negative ads. So uplifting!

Gayle in MD
08-20-2012, 05:26 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How an international relations naif like Romney thought Ryan a good fit is explained by the arrogance of entitlement and a ton of cash, by which he plans to swamp the general election as he did, without having more merit, in the primaries. Carpet bomb the opponent with a deluge of negative ads. So uplifting! </div></div>

My thoughts exactly.

Pretty obvious, given his and his wife's own statements.

G.

eg8r
08-20-2012, 06:28 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How an international relations naif like Romney thought Ryan a good fit is explained by the arrogance of entitlement and a ton of cash, by which he plans to swamp the general election as he did, without having more merit, in the primaries. Carpet bomb the opponent with a deluge of negative ads. So uplifting! </div></div>Kind of funny after you just finished patting Reid's back for doing just this.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
08-21-2012, 03:01 PM
I'm not following that retort.

I did WHAT? WHEN? Sounds like recently, since I 'just' finished patting Reid's back, you say.

I don't recall anything like that, or for anything comparable (negative ads). I'm sure he bought and ran plenty of them in pre-November 2010, but I haven't addressed that subject then or more recently.

Mistaken identity, perhaps?

eg8r
08-21-2012, 07:23 PM
No mistaken identity...the statements he made about Romney's taxes when he has zero proof is the same as a negative ad.

eg8r

Qtec
08-22-2012, 04:02 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wait, when did you care about Foreign Policy experience when referring to the candidates for POTUS?

eg8r </div></div>

Are you INCAPABLE of staying on topic. Every answer you give is.... <span style="color: #3333FF">But... But.....Obama.</span>

Ryan is a lackey. He has been kissing a$$ ever since he got elected. He will say anything, do anything and drop all that he has stood for, if it helps him get elected.
Its noticeable that the GOPers who claim to have principles are the FIRST to drop those principles when convenient.

You always called Kerry a flip/flopper on acount of ONE sentence. These two flip/flop every day depending on how the wind blows but you can only attack Obama.

You cannot trust either of them after all they have done.

Give us ONE reason to trust Mitt or Ryan. I would like to hear that argument.

Q

Gayle in MD
08-22-2012, 06:02 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not following that retort.

I did WHAT? WHEN? Sounds like recently, since I 'just' finished patting Reid's back, you say.

I don't recall anything like that, or for anything comparable (negative ads). I'm sure he bought and ran plenty of them in pre-November 2010, but I haven't addressed that subject then or more recently.

Mistaken identity, perhaps?

</div></div>

Have you forgotten that Eg. has the ability to read minds, even long distance? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

Soflasnapper
08-22-2012, 09:45 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No mistaken identity...the statements he made about Romney's taxes when he has zero proof is the same as a negative ad.

eg8r </div></div>

??? That's hilariously wrong, of course.

True only if you think the unadorned plain statement of something Reid said, where he admitted he had no idea whether it was true, is the same as the Voice from God heavily produced scary music SERIES OF ADS, costing millions of dollars to put into all households that watch TV, that people get in their face dozens of times a day.

Oh wait! Reid DID say it TWICE!

Sure, a guy saying something twice, in quite brief remarks that could be seen at the time only on C-SPAN, is JUST LIKE millions in ad buys that hammer home their point over the span of weeks and weeks. JUST LIKE IT, eg8r claims.

Clearly enough, if it is just like a negative ad, it is like a negative ad he ran all of two times, to no particular audience. Not carpet bombing from 20,000 feet with B-52 Stratofortress bombloads of ordinance, as is Romney's one trick.

eg8r
08-22-2012, 09:49 AM
LOL, you wish it was different then it would show you to be the hypocrite you are trying to hide. Keep defending though, at least it is your own self instead of the underserving Obama.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
08-22-2012, 10:24 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No mistaken identity...the statements he made about Romney's taxes when he has zero proof is the same as a negative ad.

eg8r </div></div>

??? That's hilariously wrong, of course.

True only if you think the unadorned plain statement of something Reid said, where he admitted he had no idea whether it was true, is the same as the Voice from God heavily produced scary music SERIES OF ADS, costing millions of dollars to put into all households that watch TV, that people get in their face dozens of times a day.

Oh wait! Reid DID say it TWICE!

Sure, a guy saying something twice, in quite brief remarks that could be seen at the time only on C-SPAN, is JUST LIKE millions in ad buys that hammer home their point over the span of weeks and weeks. JUST LIKE IT, eg8r claims.

Clearly enough, if it is just like a negative ad, it is like a negative ad he ran all of two times, to no particular audience. Not carpet bombing from 20,000 feet with B-52 Stratofortress bombloads of ordinance, as is Romney's one trick. </div></div>



At this point, there is no living person who can say whether Reid's statements are true, or not.

Admitting from the start that he could not provide any documentaton, can mean he is not at liberty to divulge.

Which is exactly what I believe. I do not think Reid made the statements up. Far, far from intentionaly bomb blasting the public with lies non-stop on the airwaves, for weeks on end, as you stated.

Apples and oranges!

G.

Soflasnapper
08-22-2012, 10:55 AM
If what Reid did is just like Romney's millions of dollars in negative ad buys, then it's still more accurate to say you and I are exactly alike, because we type up stuff here.

We are not exactly alike, of course, and neither are the cases of Reid and Romney on this small patch of factual ground you wish to fight over.