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LWW
08-27-2012, 12:46 PM
LET THE EXCUSES BEGIN! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J3KPL6i8j0&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

llotter
08-27-2012, 02:38 PM
Thuggery and violence are the stock and trade of the Democrats because they have all losers and don't like it.

Soflasnapper
08-27-2012, 04:16 PM
Watch Paul Ryan crack joke as 71 year old is roughed up to the ground (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBhdXfCdaA8&feature=player_embedded)

This man was seeking to ask a question.

Asking a question will get you thrown to the ground, even if you are a senior citizen recovering from broken bones, and then arrested.

People like this older man ought to realize not to question their GOP overlords, and he should consider himself lucky not to have been tazed to death.

llotter
08-27-2012, 05:10 PM
This man was not seeking to ask a question, but was intentionally causing a ruckus in the middle of a speech and was rightfully arrested by the police. It is hard for me to believe you would use this as an equivalent example of thuggery and violence perpetrated by the other side. You really have to stretch reality to justify that.

LWW
08-28-2012, 08:18 AM
The left always attempts ame moral equivalence arguments.

Soflasnapper
08-28-2012, 10:45 AM
Just about like the Tea Party attendees at the various town halls in the run up to the 2010 elections.

They were TRAINED and given talking points as to how to disrupt the town halls. That's what they were there to do, and they did it.

Had some 70+ year old Tea Party activists been wrestled outside, thrown to the ground, handcuffed and arrested, somehow I think there would have been the exact opposite reaction, that these people were being savaged by jack-booted fascists.

Am I right?

llotter
08-28-2012, 01:57 PM
When you find yourself in a hole, you should stop digging.

I am unaware of any training provided or talking points either and I have been active in the Tea Party through the 2010 elections. Aside from that, the only violence and thuggery at Tea Party events at public meetings were perpetrated by the Left as a counter protest.

There simply is no equivalence between Left and right in the violence department.

DiabloViejo
08-28-2012, 02:14 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When you find yourself in a hole, you should stop digging.

I am unaware of any training provided or talking points either and I have been active in the Tea Party through the 2010 elections. Aside from that, the only violence and thuggery at Tea Party events at public meetings were perpetrated by the Left as a counter protest.

There simply is no equivalence between Left and right in the violence department. </div></div>

So says the man whose tagline is a tribute to a violent murdering terrorist! Wow you can't make this sh*t up! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Soflasnapper
08-28-2012, 03:46 PM
I am unaware of any training provided or talking points either and I have been active in the Tea Party through the 2010 elections

You never heard of this?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Right-Wing Harassment Strategy Against Dems Detailed In Memo: ‘Yell,’ ‘Stand Up And Shout Out,’ ‘Rattle Him’

By Lee Fang on Jul 31, 2009 at 2:28 pm

This morning, Politico reported that Democratic members of Congress are increasingly being harassed by “angry, sign-carrying mobs and disruptive behavior” at local town halls. For example, in one incident, right-wing protesters surrounded Rep. Tim Bishop (D-NY) and forced police officers to have to escort him to his car for safety.

This growing phenomenon is often marked by violence and absurdity. Recently, right-wing demonstrators hung Rep. Frank Kratovil (D-MD) in effigy outside of his office. Missing from the reporting of these stories is the fact that much of these protests are coordinated by public relations firms and lobbyists who have a stake in opposing President Obama’s reforms.

The lobbyist-run groups Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks, which orchestrated the anti-Obama tea parties earlier this year, are now pursuing an aggressive strategy to create an image of mass public opposition to health care and clean energy reform. A leaked memo from Bob MacGuffie, a volunteer with the FreedomWorks website Tea Party Patriots, details how members should be infiltrating town halls and harassing Democratic members of Congress:

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/teabag1.jpg

Tea Bagger Memo

– Artificially Inflate Your Numbers: “Spread out in the hall and try to be in the front half. The objective is to put the Rep on the defensive with your questions and follow-up. The Rep should be made to feel that a majority, and if not, a significant portion of at least the audience, opposes the socialist agenda of Washington.”

– Be Disruptive Early And Often: “You need to rock-the-boat early in the Rep’s presentation, Watch for an opportunity to yell out and challenge the Rep’s statements early.”

– Try To “Rattle Him,” Not Have An Intelligent Debate: “The goal is to rattle him, get him off his prepared script and agenda. If he says something outrageous, stand up and shout out and sit right back down. Look for these opportunities before he even takes questions.”

The memo above also resembles the talking points being distributed by FreedomWorks for pushing an anti-health reform assault all summer. Patients United, a front group maintained by Americans for Prosperity, is currently busing people all over the country for more protests against Democratic members. Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX), chairman of the NRCC, has endorsed the strategy, telling the Politico the days of civil town halls are now “over.”

Meanwhile, AHIP, the trade group and lobbying juggernaut representing the health insurance industry is sending staffers to monitor town halls and other right-wing front groups are stepping up their ad campaign to smear reform efforts. The strategy for defeating reform — recently outlined by an influential lobbyist to the Hill newspaper as “delay” then “kill” — is becoming apparent. By delaying a vote until after the August recess, lobbyists are now seizing upon recess town halls as opportunities to ambush lawmakers and fool them into believing there is wide opposition to reform. </div></div>

More, here. (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2009/07/31/53761/recess-harassment-memo/)

-------------

Although the piece says the growing phenomenon is often marked by violence, that isn't my recollection. It is more the disruptive behavior that was seen, quite like the memo contents above.

It is exactly like this one guy standing up and shouting, except instead of one guy, it was groups of them, and instead of them being escorted out, and arrested in handcuffs, they basically were allowed to shout down the town hall entirely.

Surprised you don't remember that, although to be sure, it was not the demonstrations and street gatherings, etc., where this took place-- it was the town halls run by Democrats when they came home during the summer recess of 2009. Perhaps you never went to one of those.

llotter
08-28-2012, 05:09 PM
The entire article is made out of whole cloth. It is not unusual for those who routinely use violence and thuggery to project their motives and methods onto the opposition. Every time you hear the phrase, 'both sides do it', it is spoken invariably by someone on the Left (or a RINO) because that is what they believe and easily presume that conclusion.

I have every email that Freedomworks has sent to subscribers for years and there is nothing even close to what the article states as though it were fact.

This is an email I received on 8/10/2009:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


Dear Larry,

This week in the wake of our August Recess Call to Action, FreedomWorks has been the target of a vicious campaign by the likes of MoveOn.org, ACORN, the AFL-CIO, and the Democrat National Committee (DNC) to discredit our organization and slander our membership.

Help us fight back!

As a FreedomWorks member, I think you have a right to know what these groups are saying about you.

While it’s only the first week of the month-long August Congressional Recess, hard-working FreedomWorks volunteers have already been attending town halls and listening sessions to rightly voice their opposition to big government reform proposals such as the cap and trade energy tax and President Obama’s hostile takeover of America’s health care system. The recess action kits that we have provided include talking points on these issues so that activists can be well-informed. They also include tough questions for legislators to answer to provide clarity as to their positions on these important issues.

We feel that it is fair for a lawmaker to hear their constituents’ concerns and frustration over the incredible over-reaches of government power we see in both ObamaCare and the cap and trade energy tax proposals, and to demand answers on where they stand. But the Left has seen fit to characterize our actions as “disruptive” and “disgusting,” even calling us “thugs” and “un-American.”

They are even perpetrating outright lies to the media by accusing FreedomWorks of encouraging our members to be unruly and shout-down Members of Congress, not allowing them to speak. This is of course, not true. FreedomWorks prides itself on making sure you, as members, are well informed on the issues, ask tough questions, and get answers to them. We always encourage volunteers to be respectful, but resolute in communicating their positions on important issues.

These liberal Leftist groups are manufacturing such lies because it gives them a target and they have organized an all-out attack on FreedomWorks’ Washington, D.C. headquarters.

Our offices have literally been hammered over the last week by an organized patch-through phone call campaign by MoveOn.org, the Unions, and others that have hit us with phone calls comparing FreedomWorks staff and members to Nazis and issuing profanity-laced verbal assaults including one racist rant leveled at an African American member of our staff. Liberal pundit Rachel Maddow even “declared war” on FreedomWorks’ website, essentially encouraging cyber-attacks by liberal hackers.

These dirty tactics by the Left have forced us to beef-up security at our offices and for our website, and even contact the FBI to report some of the more threatening calls that we have received.

As you know, FreedomWorks does not encourage this kind of underhanded activity. We believe that at their core, our arguments centered on fundamental free market principles stand on their own, which is why we don’t resort to intimidation and lies as the Left so often does.

Nevertheless, the Left is playing dirty and turning up the heat day by day. MoveOn.org recently announced that they are building a war chest in an effort to crush us and that in one day they raised over $250,000.

If we are to have a fighting chance against this liberal juggernaut, I need your help today.

Please help us to fight back by taking part in FreedomWorks August Recess Call to Action; attend a town hall meeting this month; and chip in $25, $50, or whatever you can afford to help us continue fighting against Obama’s big government agenda despite the all-out assault that MoveOn.org and others have launched:

Help us fight back!

While it is a daunting task to go up against Obama and the Left’s well-funded political machine, the good news is they wouldn’t be attacking us if we weren’t being effective. Your emails, phone calls, and face-to-face interaction with legislators and their staff is making a difference and that is why MoveOn.org is raising money specifically to go after us.

Now is the time to kick our campaigns against government-run health care and the ominous cap and trade energy tax into high gear. If we don’t fight back hard and build up the necessary resources for these campaigns, I fear that the Left’s machine will stifle many of our proposed activities and events, and could even threaten the September 12 March on Washington, DC.

Don’t let MoveOn.org and others on the Left win! Don’t allow them to slander and dismiss what FreedomWorks and you are working so hard on. Help us by sending your generous contribution today!

Yours in Freedom,

Dick Armey
Chairman
FreedomWorks.org

P.S. I need your help to fight the liberal war chest that is being built to silence FreedomWorks’ opposition to government-run health care, the cap and trade energy tax, and other big government proposals. Please chip in $25, $50, $100 or whatever you can afford today.


This e-mail is a FreedomWorks action alert. You are receiving this message because you have opted in to receive email updates.



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Soflasnapper
08-28-2012, 09:25 PM
The entire article is made out of whole cloth.

No it isn't. The explanation is at the link.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Amy Menefee, communications director of Americans for Prosperity and its anti-health reform group Patients United, wrote to ThinkProgress regarding this post:

“Several blogs have picked up your post: http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/31/recess-harassment-memo/ which mentions Americans for Prosperity’s efforts next to your mention of Bob MacGuffie’s memo about town hall meetings. Mr. MacGuffie’s memo was his own work. I would appreciate your help in correcting the erroneous rumor people have passed around that this memo came from AFP. We have encouraged our members to attend town halls, ask questions and register their opinions about issues including health care — as all citizens should do. We always promote civil dialogue and do not condone disruptive behavior.”

As noted in the post, MacGuffie is a volunteer who actively posts and volunteers with the website Tea Party Patriots. A review of the sponsoring organizations reveals that both FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity are sponsors of the website as “Freedom Coalition” partners.

A few months before joining Americans for Prosperity, Menefee herself worked for the medical device/pharmaceutical industry-funded “think-tank” called the Galen Institute.</div></div>

So, to be clear, it was a related and affiliated person blogging independently on a related and affiliated site, among the consortium of partnerships. Not imagined by anyone, and although disclaimed by FW, still the apparent blueprint for the extreme disruptions and protests that were seen at the town halls.

Or, at least, the exact blueprint was followed for some reason.

llotter
08-29-2012, 06:12 AM
I don't see anything in your pull-quote that suggests Tea Party enthusiasts were trained to be disruptive or in fact were. It shows just the opposite, in fact.