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Grapenut
09-05-2012, 03:27 PM
If we fail to pay at tax and get away with it, who is hurt: us? The State? Innocents? Libertarian analysis shows us that the State is responsible for any damage to innocents it alleges the "selfish tax-evader" has incurred; and the "services" the State "provides" us are illusory. There must be more than lonely resistance cleverly concealed or "dropping out?" If a political party or revolutionary army is inappropriate and self-defeating for libertarian goals, what collective action works? The answer is agorism. A libertarian society in theory and free-market in practice, is called agorist, from the Greek agora, meaning "open marketplace."

--Samuel Edward Konkin III, New Libertarian Manifesto

DiabloViejo
09-05-2012, 03:55 PM
So when are you moving to Somalia? Hey, I hear it's a libertarian paradise..no government, no laws, plenty of guns, rocket launchers, and bombs, no pesky unions, no FDA, no safety standards, etc.. it would be heaven on earth for you and LWW.

Try a vacation there, you'll love it! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
http://youtu.be/7QDv4sYwjO0

llotter
09-05-2012, 05:31 PM
You are just being silly. Libertarians, like any freedom lover, want just enough government to protect their individual freedom. Somalia is the opposite of a libertarian example b/c there is no force to protect the citizens who are under threat. Freedom is not anarchy, it requires civility and IMO requires a common set of values.

cushioncrawler
09-05-2012, 06:31 PM
..................If we fail to pay at tax and get away with it, who is hurt: us? The State? Innocents?.......

This iz up my alley. If i were King there would be zero taxes of any sort.
Koz, the state dont need taxes. In effekt the state will hav 100% debt. But it saves on the kost of kollekting taxes. Kollekting taxes probly kosts society say 10% of gross kost/produktion.

In effekt everyone haz duzz and will pay for state expenditure. But when i say "will pay" i dont mean that in the sense of our grandkids having to pay for our sins. That whole bizness of the state loading debt on grandkids iz bullkrap. State debt iz owed by the state to the state, ie it aint debt at all. No, when i say we all pay, i mean now. We all pay when we pay tax, and we all pay when we dont pay tax.

How do we pay for state expenditure if we dont pay tax. It aint eezy to explain. Friedman would of course say that this sort of system would inkreec inflation, and the inflation eating at everyones money would indirektly pay for state expenditure. This iz rubbish, and Friedman woz an idiot.

Friedman's explanation wouldnt work in a hypothetical situation where there iz inflation but zero state expenditure. Nor in a situation where there iz state expenditure but zero inflation (or deflation even). Nor where the state spends less than it taxes. Nor where the state spends more than it taxes. Nor where the state spends but duznt tax (which iz where i came in).

No, we all pay for state expenditure, but not throo inflation. Its more subtle than that.

All work carryd out inside a state iz a burden on all citizens. This burden iz shared by all citizens. The exakt proportion of such sharing iz diffikult to imagin. But lets say that it iz shared equally. Of course if the state taxes citizens, then the taxes affekt the proportions -- but the taxes are not the sole basis of sharing, taxes are just one layer, az i say, an unnecessary layer.

Instead of calling it work we call it expenditure. Lets say that we kum at it from a different direktion and we say that all expenditure iz a tax. Instead of saying that we buy petrol at the pump, lets describe it az paying a tax to esso. By that sort of definition then all.....

I MUST INTERRUPT THIS RANT KOZ SOME NICE YOUNG MEN IN CLEAN WHITE COATS ARE KUMMING TO TAKE ME AWAY HA HAAA.