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10-08-2002, 11:00 AM
this can't happen under the basec rules of 1-pocket but can in some "weight" situations.

weight is 6-9. as you make your point(6) you also sink his last ball(9) in his designated pocket. same stroke and they fall at the same time.

who won, and why?

dan

PQQLK9
10-08-2002, 11:34 AM
"this game has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down" /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Jeeez Dan...I don't know. ???

Drake
10-08-2002, 11:39 AM
This is a great question for Grady because he has probably seen it happen. He might come here and complain but he knows Pool. He just has trouble executing the shots. As far as safeties and position play, he's the best. BUT, My opinion on this one pocket scenario is that it's a tie. A player's shot is not over until the cue ball comes to rest. Therefore, In this situation it really doesn't matter who's ball was made first. Just my 2 cents worth.

Paul_Mon
10-08-2002, 11:42 AM
That's a good question Dan. I'd have to say that it is a draw. Unless you had some sort of agreement that stipulates "ties you win".

Paul Mon~~~~not much help

10-08-2002, 11:52 AM
Logically, it would seem that this is one of the rare instances in pool where you would have a tie game. I doubt that it even matters in which order the balls were pocketed. If the ball count at the end of an inning/shot detemines there is no winner, then it has to be a tie.

Eric.
10-08-2002, 12:46 PM
Dan,

I think this one is good for a 20 minute shouting session. Generally, the bigger player wins. LOL! I would argue that the ball that was pocketed first would determine the winner(provided you didn't foul).

Eric >will sleep at a Holiday Inn tonite and come up with the answer

10-08-2002, 01:03 PM
The shooter wins. The shooter's shot is given priority. For example, if it wasn't the end of the game the shooter would continue to shoot because he pocketed his ball in his pocket. If he missed his shot and made his opponent's ball, the shooter's inning would end, therefore what the shooter does with regard to his own pocket, dictates the outcome of the inning.

rackmup
10-08-2002, 01:04 PM
Just guessing but if I'm the player that is getting the weight and I sink my sixth ball and at the same time, make his ninth, I still win as I "had the table" or to use a league term, it was my "inning".

I sank the ball I needed to win the game so I am the VICTOR!

Is that correct?

Regards,

Ken (gets bad headaches when he plays one-hole)

rackmup
10-08-2002, 01:06 PM
You beat my answer by one minute so you win the prize.

Congrats (if we were right),

Ken

10-08-2002, 01:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: rackmup:</font><hr> Just guessing but if I'm the player that is getting the weight and I sink my sixth ball and at the same time, make his ninth, I still win as I "had the table" or to use a league term, it was my "inning".

I sank the ball I needed to win the game so I am the VICTOR!

Is that correct?

Regards,

Ken (gets bad headaches when he plays one-hole) <hr></blockquote>

well, part of the problem is this sticky little matter of the bca "rules of play #4" which says, in part: "if a shooter pockets a ball that brings the opponent's score to the number opponent needed to win the game, the shooter has lost unless the cue ball scratches or jumps off the table."

most of us know to sink his last ball and follow it in with the cue ball so he's back uptable looking at 2 balls lined up on the spot.

that rule 4 is the sticker. since the standard game is 8-8, my case can't come up. i also thought about the precedent that the rules give "too close to call" hits to the shooter as in "shooter wins ties".

i'm really stuck on this one.

dan

dddd
10-10-2002, 07:18 PM
i wouldnt be sure this rule applies to this
is this a general rule and intended for onepocket
i havent seen the bca rule book though

but look here

RULES OF PLAY


A legal shot requires that the cue ball contact an object ball and then (1) pocket a numbered ball, or (2) cause the cue ball or any numbered ball to contact a cushion. Failure to do so is a foul.

A legally pocketed ball in a target pocket entitles shooter to remain at the table until failing to pocket a ball in the target pocket on a legal shot. Player may choose to shoot any object ball, any ball pocketed in the target pocket on an otherwise legal stroke is a scored ball.

Balls pocketed in the four non-target pockets are "Illegally Pocketed Balls."

Balls pocketed by a shooter in an opponent's target pocket are scored for the opponent, even if the stroke was a foul, but would not count if the cue ball should scratch or jump the table. However, if the stroke is not a foul and the shooter pockets a ball(s) in both target pockets, the shooter's inning continues, with all legally pocketed balls scored to the appropriate player.

If a shooter pockets a ball that brings the opponent's score to the number opponent needed to win the game, the shooter has lost unless the cue ball scratches or jumps off the table.

When a player has the cue ball in hand behind the head string (as after a scratch) and all object balls are also behind the head string, the object ball nearest the head string may be spotted upon request. If two or more balls are an equal distance from the head string, the highest numbered ball is spotted.

Three successive fouls by the same player is loss of game

10-10-2002, 08:01 PM
I'm voting against a tie. I never heard of a tie in a pool game. I would say the winner would be determined by which player first reaches the required number of balls, meaning a decision on whose winning ball fell first, ending the game. You could also argue for awarding the game to the shooter, but you would have to come up with a rule that supports that argument. Is there any?

I think the first winning ball to fall settles the game, which ends immediately. By the time any other ball goes down, the game is already finished and it's too late.

Troy
10-10-2002, 08:30 PM
Well Dan, first, now you understand why weight should NOT add up to 15. Second, and more to the point, the shooter wins. Actually, the BCA Rules don't cover weight situations, so it's always best to clarify the situation ahead of time.

Here's an example for you --- Score is 6-7, you shoot a ball into your pocket AND pocket the last ball in an "off pocket". Normally, that ball would be spotted AFTER the inning is complete. However, in this case, that ball is spotted NOW and you get to shoot at your pocket.

Troy...~~~ Confusing the issue..... /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: houstondan:</font><hr>
well, part of the problem is this sticky little matter of the bca "rules of play #4" which says, in part: "if a shooter pockets a ball that brings the opponent's score to the number opponent needed to win the game, the shooter has lost unless the cue ball scratches or jumps off the table."

most of us know to sink his last ball and follow it in with the cue ball so he's back uptable looking at 2 balls lined up on the spot.

that rule 4 is the sticker. since the standard game is 8-8, my case can't come up. i also thought about the precedent that the rules give "too close to call" hits to the shooter as in "shooter wins ties".

i'm really stuck on this one.

dan <hr></blockquote>

10-10-2002, 09:05 PM
BCA Rules #4 for One-Pocket as sited by dddd:

"If a shooter pockets a ball that brings the opponent's score to the number opponent needed to win the game, the shooter has lost unless the cue ball scratches or jumps off the table."

10-10-2002, 11:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: houstondan:</font><hr> this can't happen under the basec rules of 1-pocket but can in some "weight" situations.

weight is 6-9. as you make your point(6) you also sink his last ball(9) in his designated pocket. same stroke and they fall at the same time.

who won, and why?

dan <hr></blockquote>

the shooter wins,no doubt about it

why? /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif because it was his shot and he successfully pocketed his ball!

smfsrca
10-11-2002, 01:55 AM
This same set of rules also states:
"OBJECT OF THE GAME
Score a total of eight object balls in a player's target pocket before opponent."
They cover only the no spot situation so it would never arise under BCA rules.

smfsrca
10-11-2002, 01:58 AM
Actually, there is at least one other game where a tie (draw) is possible, 8-ball.
BCA Rule:
"STALEMATED GAME
If, after 3 consecutive turns at the table by each player (6 turns total), the referee judges that attempting to pocket or move an object ball will result in loss of game, the balls will be re-racked with the original breaker of the stalemated game breaking again. The stalemate rule may be applied regard-less of the number of balls on the table. Please Note: Three consecutive fouls by one player in 8-ball is not a loss of game. "

Vagabond
10-11-2002, 07:39 AM
Howdy Dan,
In the past Grady provided the answer ,on this form, for this situation.(don`t remember the answer)Rules book does not address this situation because u do not have the handicap system in the national level tournaments.cheers
Vagabond

WesK
10-11-2002, 02:34 PM
Why was the spot 6-9 and not 6-10?

Shouldn't the split always total 16 so that there is never a tie?

Just a thought...

wes

Troy
10-11-2002, 03:30 PM
Because the weight was 3 balls (9-6), 10-6 would be 4 balls. Quite a difference.

No, it doesn't always need to total 16.

I think 10-7 would be better. No arguements. Just remember, the guy shooting 10 must spot the first ball made.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: WesK:</font><hr> Why was the spot 6-9 and not 6-10?

Shouldn't the split always total 16 so that there is never a tie?

Just a thought...

wes<hr></blockquote>

NH_Steve
10-11-2002, 07:40 PM
The BCA 'Official Rulebook' has never been 100% right on One Pocket (and of course they ignored it completely in early editions), hence they have yet to establish themselves as the authority when it comes to the game -- I'd go with Grady's word.