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10-10-2002, 12:19 AM
Of all the player you all have ever watched, who do you think has the smoothest nicest looking stroke. Personally I like to watch Buddy stroke em, just wanted to get opinions?

Shawn

Cueless Joey
10-10-2002, 12:40 AM
Strickland, Davenport, Efren and John Schmidt.
When God was giving away strokes, these 4 bastards were present. :-)

10-10-2002, 01:20 AM
All but one guy is a west coast guy, figures...HAHAHAHA {just kidding}. Heres a few names in no particular order. Steve Mizerak, Jay Swanson, Gary Pinkowski, Buddy Hall, French 14.1 Champion Stephen Cohen... but the smoothest of them all is/was Toby Sweet. I never saw anyone look that smooth at the table, ever. Its all opinions anyway, thats mine.

10-10-2002, 04:01 AM
dallas west steve mizerak mika immonen

bluewolf
10-10-2002, 06:17 AM
randy g and scott lee <g> guess i am a wee bit biased.

bw

MikeM
10-10-2002, 06:30 AM

PQQLK9
10-10-2002, 08:13 AM
Mike

Fred Agnir
10-10-2002, 08:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> Of all the player you all have ever watched, who do you think has the smoothest nicest looking stroke. <hr></blockquote>
The Miz, in his heyday.

Fred

smfsrca
10-10-2002, 11:56 AM
Fong-Pang Chao has the silkiest stroke I have ever witnessed.
Have not heard much of him this year.
The first time I saw him was at the BCA tournament in Las Vegas 2 or 3 years ago.
I remember commenting to a friend as we watched him play, "Who is this guy, he has the prettiest stroke I've ever seen, it's like his cue is just floating."
I than commented "When I look at him and think of my own stroke I just want to throw up."
My friend of course couldn't let that one go by and said "Yeah, when I look at your stroke it makes me want to barf to."

nAz
10-10-2002, 12:57 PM
Men side i have to Say Stalev, Sigel and strickland.
women Balukas, fisher
Honorary mention NAZ

Rod
10-10-2002, 04:23 PM
Jimmy Moore, Steve Mizerak, and Buddy Hall

Tom_In_Cincy
10-10-2002, 04:30 PM
Best stroke I've ever seen in the Pros is Mike Sigel.. worst stroke is Allen Hopkins.

EZMark
10-10-2002, 08:11 PM
Mike Sigel, Jim Rempe, Toby Sweet, just my opinion. Thnx EZMark P.S. John Rags Fitzpatrick

Bob C
10-10-2002, 08:23 PM
Best stroke: Miz--"The Master"
Worst Stroke: Cisero Murphy

phil in sofla
10-10-2002, 10:19 PM
I'd have to say Buddy, from among those I've seen personally.

How about some of the greats of the past, if you've seen them play on old films? Lassiter, Greenleaf, etc.-- did they have smoothness to compare to these players named on this thread?

10-10-2002, 10:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> Of all the player you all have ever watched, who do you think has the smoothest nicest looking stroke. Personally I like to watch Buddy stroke em, just wanted to get opinions?

Shawn <hr></blockquote>


Best I think is Jose Parica, worst IMO, is Jimmy Wetch.

10-10-2002, 11:24 PM
i've read about a dozen replys and i guess i'm going to have to say it is the old hoppe and mosconi guys. given the equipment they had, they had real strong, smooth and precise strokes.

dan...they had to.

Misel
10-10-2002, 11:41 PM
Willie Mosconi,Mike Sigel,Efren Reyes.

10-11-2002, 12:10 AM
Man, don't expect too many of the people who post to this board to know anything past the last U.S. Open. Some know pool in the last 20 years, but history? Willie could outstroke these 9-Ball turkeys from his grave. And Greenleaf on 5 x 10s with tight pockets playing a real game? No contest.

Voodoo Daddy
10-11-2002, 12:13 AM
The post was who have you seen Dan...your a lil young for Hoppe, maybe not Mosconi though...HAHAHAHAHA!!

Voodoo Daddy
10-11-2002, 12:24 AM
Willie and Ralph were the only ones? From what I have been told buy many elder players...Lassiter, Crane, Balsis, Caras, Camp, Leonard, Cranfield, Canton...the list is endless. Your fondness for yester-year is noted. But it wasnt all time...it was who you saw. If you seen any of them I want details...HAHAHAHAHA

Paul_Mon
10-11-2002, 06:49 AM
Crane, Mosconi and Sigel for the classic stroke.
Jimmy Moore's slip stroke is ultra smooth.

10-11-2002, 07:11 AM
i live 6 miles from j.c. and watched them all and it is just a moment frozen in time buddy was 19 and just really hitting his stride they all had time to talk to you and shoot a game with you we all gathered in the back room where the real action was and it was great ronnie shooting one hand and the fat man would walk in and claim he was the best crane and lassiter would just laugh

sorry to take your time but was just thinking of another day and time

10-11-2002, 07:34 AM
Lassiter had one of the worst strokes. It was only a few inches long and consisted of three or four short jerks with a hesitation in between. It was a lot like Hopkins but much worse. It was infectious as you watched it. After a while you were jerking the cue around yourself.

phil in sofla
10-11-2002, 02:21 PM
Think maybe G. Fels saw Greenleaf back when he was a tadpole?

10-11-2002, 03:54 PM
I can think of no one who has a more fluid stroke than Jose Garcia

nAz
10-11-2002, 05:31 PM
Tiger woods has a great follow through

10-12-2002, 06:19 AM
Hello?? Bustamante???

Jay M
10-12-2002, 07:57 AM
My nominations are:

CM Lee - The absolutely most beautiful stroke I have ever seen. When people talk about making the game seem effortless, this is the stroke they are talking about. Ask Big Steve (Voodoo) about it if you haven't ever seen him play.

Jim Rempe - book-perfect stroke, in fact I think his stroke is the ones that most of the books used for models.

Allison Fisher - best overall snooker style stroke.

Sammy Seghiner (sp) - phenomenally smooth 3c stroke

Jay M

Doomsday Machine
10-12-2002, 10:12 AM
Toby's is as smooth as they come !! Could watch him play all day and all night. Talk about cueball control !!

sliprock
10-12-2002, 10:21 AM
My favorite to watch is John Brumback.

Voodoo Daddy
10-12-2002, 11:34 AM
Ya know Jay, your right about C.M. Lee. He is a triple smooth customer with a long left-handed stroke and makes it all look easy....because he is a close friend, I overlooked him. His long iron game is pretty good too!!

Voodoo Daddy
10-12-2002, 11:43 AM
Sorry to say Doom but Toby doesnt play anymore....but we know who the deal is, dont we? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Voodoo Daddy
10-12-2002, 04:23 PM
Take up my time, hell no. I love to hear about the legends...if you were registered, I'd PM with you to hear more...

Doomsday Machine
10-12-2002, 04:34 PM
Sorry to hear Toby is not playing. I remember Big Bob (Ogbourne) took some time off and came back strong, winning the big Seniors tournament last year. I think Toby's eyes are probably the reason that he isn't playing anymore. I watched him play solid for about 8 weeks, an incredible experience.

10-12-2002, 04:58 PM
Frnacisco has the smoothest srtoke, hands down

nAz
10-12-2002, 05:36 PM
Busta or Diaz?
where does Diaz play out of anyway?

10-13-2002, 01:03 PM
I'm with you, Voodoo!

I saw Willie Mosconi in November 1988 in an exhibition preceding the Denver Open. This was just five years before he was to join the others in that great pool hall in the sky. To watch him you knew the table belonged to him. They were a pair, a matched set, a marriage made in heaven. But what he must have been in his prime! I consider myself fortunate to have seen Willie in person, even in his 75th year.

I was also fortunate to talk with Irving Crane by phone before he left for that same great pool hall last year. Because I was purchasing memorabilia, Brad Morris of New Deco was kind enough to set up a three way call to Mr. Crane. It was a thrill to talk with the same stately man I had admired as a youth as I watched him on Wide World of Sports. May he be running 100s in heaven.

I also remember catching a glimpse of U. J. Puckett, Cowboy Jimmy Moore and Jimmy Caras in 1983 in what I think was called "The Legends of Pool." I just got cable and here was something worth watching. It was a 7-ball shootout, a game I had not heard of until then. Mr. Crane still had a nice stroke and won, poor Jimmy Caras was out of position a lot, and, if memory serves, Cowboy Jimmy had a pretty smooth stroke too.

Still, no TV broadcast is like seeing them shoot in person. And as far as Ralph Greenleaf, Andrew Ponzi, Frank Taberski, Erwin Rudolph and Marcel Camp or 3-Cushion players like Willie Hoppe and Welker Cochran not to mention a One-pocket player like Eddie Taylor and a great 9-baller like Wimpy Lassiter (all balls on the break were respotted back then) and a slew of others too numerous to mention, I guess we'll have to wait for pool heaven ourselves, where they can give us all a tremendous spot, so to speak.

Best regards,
Bob

10-13-2002, 01:13 PM
Doomsday,

Was he ever captured by Accu-stats? I'd like to see him shoot.

Best regards,
Bob

10-13-2002, 01:27 PM
Yes, He goes from playing perfect to a complete collapse. I think he was playing Miz. in one of the senior tournaments. By the way, back years ago when Toby was playing. Guys like Martin and Miz would not gamble with him and that is a fact regardless what they may say. Toby was playing $200. nineball when everybody else thought $20. was a big bet.

10-13-2002, 01:33 PM
(all balls on the break were respotted back then)

Are you saying, if balls were made on the break, the balls were spoted and the player began to shoot? I don't remember ever playing that way or seeing it played that way. What makes you say that?

Voodoo Daddy
10-13-2002, 10:45 PM
Its obvious that your not old enough to remember the rules of "push-out" 9-Ball. If you scratched on the break or any shot, all pocketed balls were spotted and you shot from the kitchen. If you were a registered member, I would have sent you all the rules of push-out....They stopped using 2 shot foul pool mainly because of TV, its kinda slow to watch and unless you were a purist you might find it kinda boring. I miss push-out 9-Ball, reminds me of my youth!!

10-14-2002, 12:07 AM
Yea, that's what I remember too, Voodoo, but apparently the game was even tougher in the 1930s and 1940s. Here's a direct quote form George Fels' Legends of Billiards article titled "The Worse He Got, the Better He Got" from Billiards Digest, June 1991.

"For all his fabulous tournaments results, Wimpy was regarded far more highly as a head-to-head money player, and was considered one of the best 9-ball players ever. He had little use for today's one-foul, cueball-in-hand rule; indeed, the format under which he played 9-ball is his prime would terrify many contemporary stars. Everything that went in on the break was re-spotted (although the player making such ball or balls continued to shoot); failure to hit the lowest-numbered ball first costs half the stakes of the game; two such failures cost the game outright. Lassiter felt that was the way the game was supposed to be played, that it ensured the better player of victory if the match went long enough. And he won so often that there was hardly anybody to challenge his theory."

I figure it had to be in those two decades (maybe the 1950s too) because Fels also writes "... he began his pool career in the mid-1930s."

I have two 1960s vintage BCA rules books: 1965 and 1967. In the 1965 edition, neither the rules for 9-ball nor one-pocket are listed, probably because of their gambling associations. By 1967, both 9-ball and one-pocket get two-thirds of a page each. Here are some of the rules for 9-ball:

"When the opening shooter [on the break ] strikes the number one ball first the shot is legal and anything pocketed shall be scored for the shooter."
"No ball that has been legally pocketed shall be returned to the table as a result of fouls. Penalties shall be loss of turn only."
"Optional Shoot Out Rule: When agreed before starting play the following rule may be in effect. When incoming player cannot hit lowest numbered ball on the table directly, he may role the cue ball to a spot where the ball can be hit. His opponent then has the option of shooting or making the incoming player take the shot. If the incoming player takes the shot and fails to hit the lowest numbered ball then his opponent has the cue ball in hand, and can start from any position on the table to shoot at the lowest numbered object ball on the table."

If these really were the rules the Johnston City players were following, then it looks like 9-ball was being made easier as early as the 60s. The only difference I can see between the rules then and the rules now is that the push-out has been confined to the shot after the break.

All the best,
Bob