PDA

View Full Version : Florida School System goes Racist.



Sev
10-15-2012, 05:45 PM
Yah. Nothing says your not inferior like race based tiers in education.



http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2012/10/12/florida-passes-plan-for-racially-based-academic-goals/
<span style='font-size: 23pt'>Florida Passes Plan For Racially-Based Academic Goals</span>

Palm Beach, Fla. (CBS TAMPA) – The Florida State Board of Education passed a plan that sets goals for students in math and reading based upon their race.

On Tuesday, the board passed a revised strategic plan that says that by 2018, it wants 90 percent of Asian students, 88 percent of white students, 81 percent of Hispanics and 74 percent of black students to be reading at or above grade level. For math, the goals are 92 percent of Asian kids to be proficient, whites at 86 percent, Hispanics at 80 percent and blacks at 74 percent. It also measures by other groupings, such as poverty and disabilities, reported the Palm Beach Post.

The plan has infuriated many community activists in Palm Beach County and across the state.

“To expect less from one demographic and more from another is just a little off-base,” Juan Lopez, magnet coordinator at John F. Kennedy Middle School in Riviera Beach, told the Palm Beach Post.

JFK Middle has a black student population of about 88 percent.

“Our kids, although they come from different socioeconomic backgrounds, they still have the ability to learn,” Lopez said. “To dumb down the expectations for one group, that seems a little unfair.”

Others in the community agreed with Lopez’s assessment. But the Florida Department of Education said the goals recognize that not every group is starting from the same point and are meant to be ambitious but realistic.

As an example, the percentage of white students scoring at or above grade level (as measured by whether they scored a 3 or higher on the reading FCAT) was 69 percent in 2011-2012, according to the state. For black students, it was 38 percent, and for Hispanics, it was 53 percent.

In addition, State Board of Education Chairwoman Kathleen Shanahan said that setting goals for different subgroups was needed to comply with terms of a waiver that Florida and 32 other states have from some provisions of the federal No Child Left Behind Act. These waivers were used to make the states independent from some federal regulations.

“We have set a very high goal for all students to reach in Florida,” Shanahan said.

But Palm Beach County School Board vice-chairwoman Debra Robinson isn’t buying the rationale.

“I’m somewhere between complete and utter disgust and anger and disappointment with humanity,” Robinson told the Post. She said she has been receiving complaints from upset black and Hispanic parents since the state board took its action this week.

Robinson called the state board’s actions essentially “proclaiming racism” and said she wants Palm Beach County to continue to educate every child with the same expectations, regardless of race.

Soflasnapper
10-15-2012, 06:48 PM
What would Bill Cosby or the wife-beater tee-shirt wearing guy say???

More importantly, what would Republican Governor Rick Scott say about his nominees' actions?

What would George W. Bush explain about why a waiver was necessary, prompting this decision?

And what do you say yourself, considering this is at least not reverse racism? Which I think would trouble you more, right?

The funny thing is that this may in fact represent an equal improvement for all racial subgroups, with the apparent discrepancy only because of the current starting points being so different.

Actually, that's what one of the responses quoted in this piece says, more or less.

If that's the case-- equal improvement-- the sole reason for any appearance of racism is... the current existing disparity in the system right now.

To correct the current disparities would likely require more resources be targeted at the hindmost subgroup. Wouldn't you decry that as racism also?

Sev
10-15-2012, 07:19 PM
So your saying that children from families that make 15,000 a year vs families that make 50,000 a year have a lower ability to learn?
And it becomes worse depending on which race you belong to?

Funny I didnt realize income had the ability to change your genetic structure.

eg8r
10-15-2012, 07:50 PM
This is a great reason why my kids go to a private school. What is interesting is that of the 150 kids that go to the school only about 25 are white. Every year there is an awards ceremony for kids with straight A's for the 9 weeks and for the entire year. The percentage of kids (per skin color) with good grades is pretty even between whites and blacks. A child's development has nothing to do with their color and everything to do with parental involvement.

I know, you might think the black children that go to a private school are from well-off families but then again that is not exactly the case in most instances either. Many of the students are on the Step Up for Students scholarship program and I know of a few of the kids that don't pay anything (not even Step up) but the school brings them in because the parents cannot afford to send their kids there. My kids are very close with other students that have absolutely nothing at home as far as extra's but they have parents (many single parents) that care about their education. If the kids cannot keep up in the accelerated program then they get free tutoring to make sure they can keep up.

Last year every single kid leaving kindergarten and entering 1st grade was reading above a first grade level. Every single child. That was a record but it is proof that color means nothing.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
10-15-2012, 11:20 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So your saying that children from families that make 15,000 a year vs families that make 50,000 a year have a lower ability to learn?
And it becomes worse depending on which race you belong to?

Funny I didnt realize income had the ability to change your genetic structure. </div></div>

You haven't seen the poverty of Belle Glade or Pahokee.

School funding in Florida comes from property tax.

Sev
10-16-2012, 07:14 AM
There is a lot of property in Florida.

eg8r
10-16-2012, 07:45 AM
He is arguing a strawman. It is not money that helps kids learn. We are spending record amounts of money on education and it isn't making any difference.

eg8r

Sev
10-16-2012, 10:22 AM
The only thing that will make a difference in education starts in the home. One that includes both parents that are willing to instill family values, promote good character, a sense of morality, personal responsibility and a desire to achieve.

The above knows no economic boundaries.

Otherwise its pissing into the wind.

Soflasnapper
10-17-2012, 09:05 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He is arguing a strawman. It is not money that helps kids learn. We are spending record amounts of money on education and it isn't making any difference.

eg8r </div></div>

That school you mention? The PRIVATE school? That the poorer students who are doing well need scholarships to attend? (Scholarships in short supply, according to the website of the program you mention?)

That refutes your point all by itself. Those minority students who do well in an enriched, expensive environment that they otherwise couldn't afford except for the privately funded scholarship program would perform just the same in a deprived, bare bones school lacking such facilities? Really? And getting them either loans or grants of such an amount of money doesn't help them at all, makes no difference? M'kay, you're delusional.

eg8r
10-17-2012, 10:06 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That refutes your point all by itself. Those minority students who do well in an enriched, expensive environment that they otherwise couldn't afford</div></div>Are you referring to the school that my kids go to where there are maybe 3 computers in the entire school? The only "technology" they have is that parents can go online and see test scores. There is no money being dumped into the school the teachers are not paid great. The difference is the fact that for those parents that are not getting the free ride, since they have to pay the money to send their kids they choose to make sure it is an investment and not a bill and take initiative in their children's learning.

The school is actually working on a smaller budget this year than they had last year. The school has 20 times less amentities than are provided at local public schools. We have one school that provides iPads to the students. You will never see that at my kids school. The money that comes in tuition is a fraction of what you see at the big catholic private schools. The difference is that the education is a christian education not a state based indoctrination. Also, it is clear that you jumped to conclusions and thought that since I said private I must be talking about those big wealthy catholic schools with $10,000/yr tuition and they have 2000 students.

You are delusional to think throwing more money will change things. I am 100% confident that more parental involvement will change things. Even honduh has said in the past that more parental involvement was the key.

eg8r

Qtec
10-17-2012, 10:22 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you referring to the school that my kids go to where there are maybe <u>3 computers in the entire school?</u> The only <u>"technology"</u> they have is that parents can go online and see test scores. </div></div>



Why is that?

To <u>deny</u> them information?

Are they teaching them that the world is 9,000 yrs old?

Q......Yeah. Kids these days don't need computer skills!!!!or the truth!

eg8r
10-17-2012, 10:25 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why is that?

To deny them information?</div></div>I am not an administrator so I cannot answer other than to say it is not a wealthy school, very small indeed. Tuition is cheap compared to other private schools so basically it all comes down to money.

eg8r

Qtec
10-17-2012, 11:03 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why is that?

To deny them information?</div></div>I am not an administrator so I cannot answer other than to say it is not a wealthy school, very small indeed. Tuition is cheap compared to other private schools so basically it all comes down to money.

eg8r </div></div>


In your previous post you gave the impression that you knew everything about this school, right down to the number of computers they have!

Now that I ask you a question and you don't want to answer, you claim ignorance!!!!!!!!

"I know nothing"

The fact is you looked around. You did research. YOU CHOOSE that school because of certain factors. Not only for financial reasons. You know it. WE know it.

Be a man. Fess up.



Q

Soflasnapper
10-17-2012, 12:02 PM
You've already let the cat out of the bag, when you mentioned poorer families need scholarships and grants to afford that school tuition, whatever it is.

So which is it?

eg8r
10-17-2012, 01:13 PM
Which is what?

eg8r

eg8r
10-17-2012, 01:21 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In your previous post you gave the impression that you knew everything about this school</div></div>Or, if you came back to reality, you read more into the post than was stated.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The fact is you looked around. You did research. YOU CHOOSE that school because of certain factors. Not only for financial reasons. You know it. WE know it.</div></div>Well as you continue to guess you continue to prove you don't know what you are talking about. This makes sense because how would you know what you are talking about since you are not here, don't know the options that are available or whether we ever even considered any options. It is quite obvious I don't choose the school for financial reasons and that is because it actually costs money. If I was making a financial decision then I would send them to public school.

I did choose this school to make sure my kids did not get a public school education during their elementary and middle school years. They will be heading off to public school for high school because at that point they will be able to take part in more extra-curricular activities that are not offered at schools the size of the one they currently are at. The other benefit of going to the public high school is that they will be able to participate in dual enrollment and get a large chunk of their college courses out of the way while in high school. This will be a great loophole around skyrocketing tuition fees if my kids qualify and want to go that route.

eg8r

eg8r
10-17-2012, 01:24 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only thing that will make a difference in education starts in the home.</div></div>This is the sort of common sense that lefties want to ignore. Since they cannot legislate this sort of activity they do what they do best, steal from the rich and recklessly throw money around.

The middle school near my house is a great example...Instead of using the extra money sent to the schools the past couple years to give the teachers a pay increase they instead decided to buy iPads and ebooks for all the kids.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
10-17-2012, 02:00 PM
Is it such a nominal sum that poor families can afford it, or is it so much (even if less than prep schools or Catholic schools) that poor families need substantial financial aid to attend?

You first said the latter, and now imply the former.

Which is your position (now)?

eg8r
10-17-2012, 02:38 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it such a nominal sum that poor families can afford it, or is it so much (even if less than prep schools or Catholic schools) that poor families need substantial financial aid to attend?</div></div>It is a low fee and certainly not a substantial financial aid to attend. I actually never said substantial financial aid was needed just that the school accepts those scholarships. I stated that you might think they are well off but in most cases that is not the situation. Very poor people need aid to send their kids to the school and to do that they get the scholarship that I noted. I have not contradicted anything.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
10-17-2012, 02:48 PM
Clear as mud! Thanks.

eg8r
10-17-2012, 02:56 PM
The only bit that is muddy is what you have added to the discussion. I never said anything fee was substantial and I never once implied so. What I have said was that those that cannot afford the school are able to get assistance through the scholarship I mentioned. None of this, which is your strawman has anything to do with the quality of the education or the technology available. What makes the difference is when parents are forced to pay they take more pride in their child's education and you see the difference in the grades. When parents have to pay to send their kids to school they do not treat the school and teachers like they are baby-sitters and you can see the difference in the grades.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
10-17-2012, 04:22 PM
Public schools have to take everybody, from people so slow they are held back, to various behavior disordered children, to disabilities cases, and etc.

Private schools send those kinds of students packing if they disrupt the classes or are too great a burden generally to accommodate, if they even accept them in the first place.

You could clear up what's expensive or not easily by stating the semester cost. And of course, even something in the hundreds is about as overly costly as something in the thousands or tens of thousands for a family with income at the poverty level.

Qtec
10-18-2012, 04:19 AM
IMO eg8r did not choose that school because of financial reasons. My guess is that it was for religious reasons.

Q

hondo
10-18-2012, 04:35 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That refutes your point all by itself. Those minority students who do well in an enriched, expensive environment that they otherwise couldn't afford</div></div>Are you referring to the school that my kids go to where there are maybe 3 computers in the entire school? The only "technology" they have is that parents can go online and see test scores. There is no money being dumped into the school the teachers are not paid great. The difference is the fact that for those parents that are not getting the free ride, since they have to pay the money to send their kids they choose to make sure it is an investment and not a bill and take initiative in their children's learning.

The school is actually working on a smaller budget this year than they had last year. The school has 20 times less amentities than are provided at local public schools. We have one school that provides iPads to the students. You will never see that at my kids school. The money that comes in tuition is a fraction of what you see at the big catholic private schools. The difference is that the education is a christian education not a state based indoctrination. Also, it is clear that you jumped to conclusions and thought that since I said private I must be talking about those big wealthy catholic schools with $10,000/yr tuition and they have 2000 students.

You are delusional to think throwing more money will change things. I am 100% confident that more parental involvement will change things. Even honduh has said in the past that more parental involvement was the key.

eg8r </div></div>

Why do you care what I have said in the past? You have stated over and over again in the nastiest possible way that you could care less about anything I say. Now you're citing my opinion when it suits you?
Even though that is what I believe, I'd prefer you leave my name out of anything supporting you.

hondo
10-18-2012, 04:37 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you referring to the school that my kids go to where there are maybe <u>3 computers in the entire school?</u> The only <u>"technology"</u> they have is that parents can go online and see test scores. </div></div>



Why is that?

To <u>deny</u> them information?

Are they teaching them that the world is 9,000 yrs old?

Q......Yeah. Kids these days don't need computer skills!!!!or the truth! </div></div>

I was thinking the same thing. Computers can be a great learning tool or a curse , depending on how they are used.

hondo
10-18-2012, 04:40 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why is that?

To deny them information?</div></div>I am not an administrator so I cannot answer other than to say it is not a wealthy school, very small indeed. Tuition is cheap compared to other private schools so basically it all comes down to money.

eg8r </div></div>

One of my grand-daughters goes to a perivate Christian school with a limited budget. I am un-convinced that she is getting the education she would at a public school in our county.

hondo
10-18-2012, 04:43 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only thing that will make a difference in education starts in the home.</div></div>

The middle school near my house is a great example...Instead of using the extra money sent to the schools the past couple years to give the teachers a pay increase they instead decided to buy iPads and ebooks for all the kids.

eg8r </div></div>

A fact you were criticising in an earlier post.

hondo
10-18-2012, 04:44 AM
"This is the sort of common sense that lefties want to ignore."

Not this Lefty as you correctly pointed out.

eg8r
10-18-2012, 08:10 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Public schools have to take everybody, from people so slow they are held back, to various behavior disordered children, to disabilities cases, and etc.

Private schools send those kinds of students packing if they disrupt the classes or are too great a burden generally to accommodate, if they even accept them in the first place.</div></div>Public schools send these same kids packing. They do not allow kids to disrupt or hold back a class.

I don't mind stating how much the rate is for kids to go to the school but wondering what difference you think it has on the kids education?

eg8r

eg8r
10-18-2012, 08:29 AM
That is very close. You are right, my children were going to go to a Christian school during their elementary and middle school years no matter what. This is in no way a decision to shield them from "the outside" because to be honest kids in christian private schools are just as bad as kids in public schools. The other factor would be a school we could afford considering I would never qualify for any sort of financial assistance.

eg8r

hondo
10-18-2012, 11:55 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Public schools have to take everybody, from people so slow they are held back, to various behavior disordered children, to disabilities cases, and etc.

Private schools send those kinds of students packing if they disrupt the classes or are too great a burden generally to accommodate, if they even accept them in the first place.</div></div>Public schools send these same kids packing. They do not allow kids to disrupt or hold back a class.

I don't mind stating how much the rate is for kids to go to the school but wondering what difference you think it has on the kids education?

eg8r </div></div>
I wish that were true, Eg. It should be true. Very hard to get rid of troublesome kids.

hondo
10-18-2012, 11:57 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is very close. You are right, my children were going to go to a Christian school during their elementary and middle school years no matter what. This is in no way a decision to shield them from "the outside" because to be honest kids in christian private schools are just as bad as kids in public schools. The other factor would be a school we could afford considering I would never qualify for any sort of financial assistance.

eg8r </div></div>

It is certainly your right. At least you care for your kids. A lot of parents don't.

eg8r
10-19-2012, 06:21 AM
That sucks. Will your kids not listen to you if you show them a side by side comparison of the curriculum at their school vs public school?

eg8r

eg8r
10-19-2012, 06:22 AM
Which fact was that?

eg8r

Qtec
10-19-2012, 06:43 AM
After all these years, I do know you a bit.

All I was saying that for you, a Christian school would be your first priority.

What bothered me was that for 150 pupils they only had 3 PCs! To me that comes across as a possible means of restriction on info on the web.

Imagine if a teacher gave a class and said the world is 9,000 yrs old. Then he says, "you don't believe me? Look it up on the internet!"

How do you think that would that go down?

Q

eg8r
10-19-2012, 07:03 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What bothered me was that for 150 pupils they only had 3 PCs! To me that comes across as a possible means of restriction on info on the web.</div></div>Yep 3 kids at a time.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Imagine if a teacher gave a class and said the world is 9,000 yrs old. Then he says, "you don't believe me? Look it up on the internet!"

How do you think that would that go down?</div></div>They would do the same thing that kids have always done. They would go to whatever resources they have. There are very limited number of schools that have a computer for every kid and allow them to get up from class to go use them for every little fact the teacher says and they disagree with. It doesn't work that way anywhere. The kids would wait till it was their turn at the computer or they could buddy up and search together, they could go to the library, they could use their computer at home, they could use encyclopedia's, they could use their iPods, iPads, iPhones, Android phones, etc. Their options are greater in these days than at any other time in history.

eg8r

Sev
10-19-2012, 07:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why is that?

To deny them information?</div></div>I am not an administrator so I cannot answer other than to say it is not a wealthy school, very small indeed. Tuition is cheap compared to other private schools so basically it all comes down to money.

eg8r </div></div>

One of my grand-daughters goes to a perivate Christian school with a limited budget. I am un-convinced that she is getting the education she would at a public school in our county. </div></div>

I bet she is missing out on the initiation to sex and drugs that are provided in the public school systems as well as other distractions.
Amazing what goes on in those places. A few years ago a local school in upstate NY had a lineup in the gymnasium of 40-50 males students with the same amount of female students on their knees.
I guess its better that it happen in school than on the streets.

hondo
10-19-2012, 08:04 AM
I hope so! She's 6 years old!

Sev
10-19-2012, 08:46 AM
Well then I believe she is safe.

Also I dont think you will see the difference until she reaches at least 4th grade. Then you can see where she stands on reading, writing and spelling as compared to others that are not in private school.
The transition to junior high should be very telling.