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cheesemouse
10-10-2002, 08:49 AM
I have a guy that will be taking lessons from me soon. Yesterday he came over to talk about it and we just played some fun pool for two hours. I noticed that almost everything he said while we played was of a negetive nature, kind of like a self-flagellation. I don't think I can help this guy until he understands that one can't continuosly whip yourself and then hope to play with any confidence; with this type of negatve self-talk eventually your persuaded your a loser. I was wondering how any of you instructors (professional or otherwise) out there deal with this problem?

Wally_in_Cincy
10-10-2002, 09:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: cheesemouse:</font><hr> I have a guy that will be taking lessons from me soon. Yesterday he came over to talk about it and we just played some fun pool for two hours. I noticed that almost everything he said while we played was of a negetive nature, kind of like a self-flagellation. I don't think I can help this guy until he understands that one can't continuosly whip yourself and then hope to play with any confidence; with this type of negatve self-talk eventually your persuaded your a loser. I was wondering how any of you instructors (professional or otherwise) out there deal with this problem? <hr></blockquote>

Maybe you should have taken it easier on him. You know, let him win a game or two /ccboard/images/icons/laugh.gif

Seriously, if you can help him improve his game noticeably, maybe he'll turn that frown upside down /ccboard/images/icons/tongue.gif.

can't believe I wrote that,

cheesemouse
10-10-2002, 09:27 AM
Wally,
Now I know who you are. Your Mr Rogers.... LOL LOL /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Eric.
10-10-2002, 09:49 AM
Not to get too philosophical but..Is this guy saying it to be modest or does he really believe what he is saying? I sometimes do that when I'm goofing around but deep down, I feel like I can get out from anywhere(well maybe some of the times...). Good luck with your student.

Eric

Ross
10-10-2002, 10:07 AM
You could read, or recommend that he read, the "Inner Game of Tennis". The author does a good job of discussing the issue of negative self-talk. Basically he points out that we all probably realize that telling another person that they just did something stupid and they suck is not an effective teaching method. This of course leads to the obvious question of why we do this to ourselves. I found the book very helpful in reducing the amount of self-criticism I do at the table.

Also, we are more likely to resort to destructive self-criticism when we don't really know why we fail at a task. You could point out that as he learns more from you, he will not be as likely to indulge himself in vague overgeneralized thinking like "Boy, I dogged that 9-ball. What a loser I am." Instead, he may reach the point that he understands specifically what when wrong and what needs to be corrected, like "I rushed my backswing under pressure. Next time I'm feeling pressure I will focus on a slower, smoother backswing."

Just a couple of ideas of how to handle students who continually beat themselves up to their own detriment. Hope this helps.

Chris Cass
10-10-2002, 10:12 AM
Hi Cheese,

Although, I'm not qualified to instruct. I myself get this from alot of players I play at the ph. I just agree with them after, the second time I hear this crap. The first time, I'll egnore it.

They say, "I suck!" I'll say, "Yes, you do. I shouldn't even be playing with you. I think I'll just whitewash you." This usually brings out, "Am I complaining too much?" I'll reply, "No, your right! You do suck." That pi$$es them off and then they quit talking and get down to business.

I won't take that crap for long. Now, being it might be a student? I would just tell them, if you want help from me, your going to have to realize. You can't be a pro in 2 weeks but you WILL see something if YOU, put 100% into, what I tell you to do. If your not willing to do this? Then, Don't Waste My Time. I don't need the money. You have to nip it in the bud. It's the best for you and especially, your student. JMHO I would suggest you show your student the improvements they've made. I've done this through tape and testing. It helps.

Miss Ya Cheese!

Regards,

C.C.~~carrys tissues for Heide. hahahahaha Oops

Rich R.
10-10-2002, 10:15 AM
Cheese, you should know that you can't always believe what some one says while they are playing pool. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif
Give the guy a chance, his actions may speak louder than his words. You will be able to tell within a few lessons if he is really trying to improve or not.
Rich R.

cheesemouse
10-10-2002, 11:42 AM
Chris,
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Although, I'm not qualified to instruct<hr></blockquote>
Neither am I but I do it anyway. I blow smoke pretty good...LOL /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

cheesemouse
10-10-2002, 11:47 AM
Ross,
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>You could read, or recommend that he read, the "Inner Game of Tennis". <hr></blockquote>
That is a good book, I should re-read that myself. I think I'll check it out of the library and let him read it and see if he gets it. Thanks for reminding me of how well the book explains sports performance.

10-10-2002, 11:51 AM
You might suggest using "affirmations". You can replace random, endless, negative statements about self with affirmations. Affirmations are strong positive statements about something that is true or has the realistic potential for becoming true about yourself. They are conscious, preplanned positive thoughts used to direct your actions and
behavior in a positive way. It's a form of working on your mental mechanics just as you would your stroke.It will feel wierd at first because you will be making positive statements to and about yourself that may be untrue at the
moment yet may/will become true in the future. They are not self deception, but rather mental self direction.A typical
affirmation may be something like, " I will execute this shot perfectly" or "I feel relaxed and confident". Given time, they do work if you keep at it and ignore the intial feelings of feeling silly about doing it. (Quietly to
yourself. Not out loud.)

All of this is badly paraphrased by me, with clumsy inserts, from a book entitled. "Thinking Body, Dancing Mind", by Jerry Lynch and Al Huang, Bantom Books, 1992

Wally_in_Cincy
10-10-2002, 12:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: daveb:</font><hr> You might suggest using "affirmations". You can replace random, endless, negative statements about self with affirmations. Affirmations are strong positive statements about something that is true or has the realistic potential for becoming true about yourself. They are conscious, preplanned positive thoughts used to direct your actions and
behavior in a positive way. It's a form of working on your mental mechanics just as you would your stroke.It will feel wierd at first because you will be making positive statements to and about yourself that may be untrue at the
moment yet may/will become true in the future. They are not self deception, but rather mental self direction.A typical
affirmation may be something like, " I will execute this shot perfectly" or "I feel relaxed and confident". Given time, they do work if you keep at it and ignore the intial feelings of feeling silly about doing it. (Quietly to
yourself. Not out loud.)

All of this is badly paraphrased by me, with clumsy inserts, from a book entitled. "Thinking Body, Dancing Mind", by Jerry Lynch and Al Huang, Bantom Books, 1992

<hr></blockquote>

I'm good enough..

I'm smart enough...

And gosh darn, people like me..LOL
-----------------------------------------------

Or the student could shoot about 50,000 balls. I guarantee he would feel better about his game after that.

10-10-2002, 12:19 PM
I knew somebody would bring up that stupid Stewart thing from Saturday Night Live and it's unfortunate because it (the skit) ridicules and undermines the credibility of an exercise that can really benefit one's mental approach and outlook. I know you were just being funny Walli, but it can help those wise enough to look past the silly stereotype.

Wally_in_Cincy
10-10-2002, 01:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: daveb:</font><hr> I knew somebody would bring up that stupid Stewart thing from Saturday Night Live and it's unfortunate because it (the skit) ridicules and undermines the credibility of an exercise that can really benefit one's mental approach and outlook. I know you were just being funny Walli, but it can help those wise enough to look past the silly stereotype. <hr></blockquote>

Actually it was more serious than funny. Playing pool is like playing a musical instrument. Even if you are blessed with natural talent you will only get better thru practice. True self-esteem comes from accomplishment. Like I said he needs to hit 50,000 balls and then reassess how he feels about his game. Simplistic answer? Yeah, but it worked for me. Maybe I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time /ccboard/images/icons/laugh.gif.

Wally_in_Cincy
10-10-2002, 01:27 PM
I wonder why your name comes up when I preview but you're anonymous in the thread?

BD changed something last week.

10-10-2002, 01:33 PM
No clue. It's not anything I'm doing and my name appears both times when I view the thread and preview ?!

10-10-2002, 01:38 PM
BTW, No mental exercise is a substitute for knocking in 50,000 balls; merely an adjunct.

Tom_In_Cincy
10-10-2002, 05:11 PM
I've seen this attitude, not only in pool students.. but pool players... good pool players.. never satisfied.. always complaining about their game..

I often wonder why they put themselves through this anguish. Could it be their mental approach.. "I suck.. so that's why I lose.." a defence mechanism so that everyone that matches up with them.. doesn't beat him.. he loses to them.

I don't have that much time or money to spend on these types of players.. I would rather play with someone that says nothing and just plays.. than the constant chatter of "I suck"

As far as me trying to correct this attitude... well its not easy, that's for sure. If you keep your end of the comments "positive" and never respond to their "negatives" I am sure they might eventually get the point.

Karatemom
10-10-2002, 05:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Chris Cass:</font><hr>
C.C.~~carrys tissues for Heide. hahahahaha Oops <hr></blockquote>

Who is the hot tempered Italian in this family again? Not me, I'm German. Why, it must be you, and of course, Christ. I get upset with my game, but it soon passes. I believe I'm getting better at controlling my anger and self-conscientiousness. Right now, I'm at a place where I am very comfortable with my game and attitude. It took me quite a while just to get here.

Heide ~ watch it bub, or I'll have to spill some beans about who is really the quick tempered one around here /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif

Tom_In_Cincy
10-10-2002, 05:18 PM
A very long time ago.. I learned that when I got mad.. upset.. disturbed.. or just cranky about my "BAD" play.. it just made it worse. I use to buy house cues, just so I could break in half.. the room owners use to laugh..

Now, my bad play has become so normal.. I am happy all the time.. /ccboard/images/icons/tongue.gif

SPetty
10-11-2002, 05:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> Now, my bad play has become so normal.. I am happy all the time.. /ccboard/images/icons/tongue.gif <hr></blockquote>hahaha - well, consistency is what we strive for!