View Full Version : DEBT will make Christmas a time of misery for millions

12-23-2012, 07:12 AM
I would call this legalised loan sharking that targets the poor.

The 69-year-old American, who pocketed £7million in wages and bonuses last year, is the mastermind behind one of the biggest payday lending firms in the UK — targeting borrowers with interest rates as high as 2,670 per cent.

Former investment banker Weiss heads DFC Global, owner of more than 500 outlets of The Money Shop.

The outfit is also behind a clutch of pawnbrokers, the Cash-a-Cheque chain and internet lenders Payday UK and Payday Express.

Almost HALF of DFC’s entire worldwide revenues come from the United Kingdom and Ireland.

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4711023/High-Street-loans-millionaire-on-7m-a-year-as-he-targets-hard-up-families.html#ixzz2Fs8dsuEQ

This says it all. This says what is wrong with the Western World that is ruled by banks.

The banks lend money at 0.5% or lower. The poor lend money at 2,670%.

How can this happen you might ask? It happens because of special interest money and power.

Rachel explains.

Wealthy Wingnut Art Pope Steps Up to Screw North Carolina

You might recall this report from Rachel Maddow in August, 2009 at the height of the legendary Obamacare protests. She introduced her viewers to Art Pope, a name known only to those who ever bothered to follow the money. In the billionaire funders' universe, Pope is one that is rarely mentioned but has an enormous impact on the right-wing landscape. Here's an astroturf refresher:

link (http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/art-pope-steps-screw-north-carolina)

Yes, elections have consequences, and North Carolina now has a hell of a consequence to contend with. Via the NewsObserver, this report about Governor-elect McCrory's appointment of Art Pope as "deputy budget director", a title invented for him by the soon-to-be governor of North Carolina.

Pope, who owns Variety Wholesalers, a retail chain that includes Roses and Maxwell stores, has been working as McCrory’s transition co-chairman. His new title will be deputy budget director, but that’s because by law the governor is the budget director. Pope will be the top staffer in developing the governor’s budgets.

Lets face it, the system of Govt is corrupt.

The SC with their C.Utd decision have only made things worse.


12-23-2012, 10:01 AM
Sad and true. As bad as the banking system is for the non-poor, the poor, near-poor and lower working classes are hosed. Payday advances, rent-to-own stores, and many other business models absolutely rape them financially. Not that banking isn't doing that to everyone else, but it's far more subtle in the mainstream. This is right there in your face. (To be clear, these parts of the financial system aren't exactly the banks, per se.)

12-23-2012, 11:32 AM
Why do you suppose people pay these rates?

12-23-2012, 12:06 PM
Why do you suppose people pay these rates?

Partially out of perceived necessity, and partially out of ignorance. The necessity seems real, as such poor credit risks will be charged substantial fees to have access to money. However, Truth in Lending rules only go so far, and so, typically, the APR and how much these things are costing at the end of the day are either not disclosed, or hidden.

12-23-2012, 12:39 PM
99.99% of those paying such extremely high rates for money went to government schools and therefore don't know any better.

12-23-2012, 02:40 PM
How about this:

- All have bank accounts and jobs or steady sources of income
- Majority make between $25,000 and $50,000 a year
- Average income is about $42,000 annually
- About 20% make MORE than $50,000 a year
- Majority have credit cards, are married and have children
- 42% are homeowners
- 94% have a high school diploma

12-23-2012, 03:02 PM
Would we not agree that an ANNUAL Percentage Rate breaks down completely when trying to determine an appropriate cost for a one week loan?

Let's say we put a max APR of 26% on such loans ... now we demand that the lender make a $100.00 loan for one week, and only be able to charge $0.50 in interest. Does this honestly meet anyone's definition of being "FAIR" for the service provided?

The hard reality is that these are small and short term loans used primarily for emergencies ... and there costs are uite reasonable.

Maximum usury rates merely lock the poor and disadvantaged off of the bottom rung of the credit ladder.

The bottom line is that the working poor who the statists pledge to "HELP" are the people being savaged with the closing of payday loan joints.

What are their alternatives?

Usually it's write a bad check, pay a bounce fee of an easy double what the PDL places charge ... plus risk incarceration plus put another black mark on their credit. What a way to "HELP" Joe Baggadonutitz when hs transportation to and from work breaks down and he needs two Franklins to get it running.

His next alternative would be to miss a week of work.

Their next option would be a pawn shop, which is only a tad less expensive ... but requires collateral.

To all those who believe tat a profit can be turned at far lower rates ... where is the competition taking their business away?

12-24-2012, 10:46 AM
Would we not agree that an ANNUAL Percentage Rate breaks down completely when trying to determine an appropriate cost for a one week loan?

A fair point, even an excellent one. You may have pointed out how bad the OTHER debt is, relative to this kind, in fact.

Why? Any one-time loss of money, whatever it annualizes to as an APR, is a one-time thing. Over and done.

Whereas the 'better' standard form of debt-- consumer rate debt, either cc or in-store cards-- at annually compounding (nominally) lower rates, will cost most people more both in gross amounts and in total percentage of interest to principle as well. How? Because few people pay off the debt, so it sits there semi-forever. You may even be paying interest on the interest.

When people do not understand the hamster wheel effect of debt-- lots of paying, little progress-- they do not rein in their balances and exercise spending control to save themselves a kind of debt slavery. And the NORMAL kind of debt and interest on it can and does lead to bankruptcy, and what's worse a bankruptcy where you STILL OWE AND MUST PAY THE MONEY (to your credit card providers).

So really, it IS far better in many ways to be gouged on a 100+% (annualized) basis (in the short term), since no interest is really due (you are paying what amounts to a one-time fee), and while the result can be impoverishing, it doesn't cause debt slavery for life. Unless as a result of the loss of that amount of money, the resort is to the kinds of consumer debt that DOES lead to it, which is a possibility.

12-24-2012, 02:07 PM
The sad fact is that folks get in such a bind, but the PDL companies are not the evil entities they are made out to be.

A PDL company incurs roughly the same expense to make a $100 direct loan as a bank incurs to make a $20K direct auto loan.

The pitiful fact is that too many folks never correct the issues that put them in the PDL office in the first place.

12-24-2012, 03:38 PM
It aint rocket science. If i were prezz i would ban Xmas. Problem solved.

12-24-2012, 05:28 PM
Why People Get Depressed at Christmas
Christmas season brings depression for some
Published on November 28, 2010 by Ray Williams in Wired for Success

We are told that Christmas, for Christians, should be the happiest time of year, an opportunity to be joyful and grateful with family, friends and colleagues. Yet, according to the National Institute of Health, Christmas is the time of year that people experience a high incidence of depression. Hospitals and police forces report high incidences of suicide and attempted suicide. Psychiatrists, psychologists and other mental health professionals report a significant increase in patients complaining about depression. One North American survey reported that 45% of respondents dreaded the festive season.

Why? Is the Grinch in full force during the season? Is it because of the dark winter weather that increases the incidence of Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD)? Certainly those may be some reasons, but it appears to have more to do with unrealistic expectations and excessive self-reflection for many people.

Why People Get Depressed at Christmas
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For some people, they get depressed at Christmas and even angry because of the excessive commercialization of Christmas, with the focus on gifts and the emphasis on "perfect" social activities. Other get depressed because Christmas appears to be a trigger to engage in excessive self-reflection and rumination about the inadequacies of life (and a "victim" mentality) in comparison with other people who seem to have more and do more. Still others become anxious at Christmas because of the pressure (both commercial and self-induced) to spend a lot of money on gifts and incur increasing debt. Other people report that they dread Christmas because of the expectations for social gatherings with family, friends and acquaintances that they'd rather not spend time with. And finally, many people feel very lonely at Christmas, because they have suffered the loss of loved ones or their jobs.

So what should you do, if you're among those who get depressed at Christmas? Mental health professionals who treat people with this problem suggest the following:
•First, if the depression is serious, seek out the help of a qualified mental health professional;
•Set personal boundaries regarding the money spent on gifts and the number of social events;
•Don't accept any "perfect" representation of Christmas that the media, institutions or other people try to make you believe. Lower your expectations and any attachment to what it should look like; be present and enjoy each moment as best you can;
•Become involved in giving in a non-monetary way through charities and worthwhile causes that help less fortunate people;
•Be grateful for what you have in your life, rather than focusing on what you don't have;
•Avoid excessive rumination about your life;
•Take action and do interesting and fun things;
•If you are religious, take part in church activities that focus on the bigger meaning of Christmas;
•Focus your thoughts on all the good things about Christmas--the opportunity to engage in loving kindness, generosity of spirit, and gratitude for others in your life.

The Christmas season has become a difficult time for many people in our society. For those of us who don't have difficulties at this time of year, it's an opportunity to reach out to those who become depressed. For those who are depressed, it's an opportunity to take action to think, feel and act in ways that breaks free from the past.

12-24-2012, 05:40 PM
Xmas and Christmas: A Lost Chapter from Herodotus
by C. S. Lewis

And beyond this there lies in the ocean, turned towards the west and north, the island of Niatirb which Hecataeus indeed declares to be the same size and shape as Sicily, but it is larger, though in calling it triangular a man would not miss the mark. It is densely inhabited by men who wear clothes not very different from the other barbarians who occupy the north western parts of Europe though they do not agree with them in language. These islanders, surpassing all the men of whom we know in patience and endurance, use the following customs.

In the middle of winter when fogs and rains most abound they have a great festival which they call Exmas and for fifty days they prepare for it in the fashion I shall describe. First of all, every citizen is obliged to send to each of his friends and relations a square piece of hard paper stamped with a picture, which in their speech is called an Exmas-card. But the pictures represent birds sitting on branches, or trees with a dark green prickly leaf, or else men in such garments as the Niatirbians believe that their ancestors wore two hundred years ago riding in coaches such as their ancestors used, or houses with snow on their roofs. And the Niatirbians are unwilling to say what these pictures have to do with the festival; guarding (as I suppose) some sacred mystery. And because all men must send these cards the marketplace is filled with the crowd of those buying them, so that there is great labour and weariness.

But having bought as many as they suppose to be sufficient, they return to their houses and find there the like cards which others have sent to them. And when they find cards from any to whom they also have sent cards, they throw them away and give thanks to the gods that this labour at least is over for another year. But when they find cards from any to whom they have not sent, then they beat their breasts and wail and utter curses against the sender; and, having sufficiently lamented their misfortune, they put on their boots again and go out into the fog and rain and buy a card for him also. And let this account suffice about Exmas-cards.

They also send gifts to one another, suffering the same things about the gifts as about the cards, or even worse. For every citizen has to guess the value of the gift which every friend will send to him so that he may send one of equal value, whether he can afford it or not. And they buy as gifts for one another such things as no man ever bought for himself. For the sellers, understanding the custom, put forth all kinds of trumpery, and whatever, being useless and ridiculous, they have been unable to sell throughout the year they now sell as an Exmas gift. And though the Niatirbians profess themselves to lack sufficient necessary things, such as metal, leather, wood and paper, yet an incredible quantity of these things is wasted every year, being made into the gifts.

But during these fifty days the oldest, poorest, and most miserable of the citizens put on false beards and red robes and walk about the market-place; being disguised (in my opinion) as Cronos. And the sellers of gifts no less than the purchaser’s become pale and weary, because of the crowds and the fog, so that any man who came into a Niatirbian city at this season would think some great public calamity had fallen on Niatirb. This fifty days of preparation is called in their barbarian speech the Exmas Rush.

But when the day of the festival comes, then most of the citizens, being exhausted with the Rush, lie in bed till noon. But in the evening they eat five times as much supper as on other days and, crowning themselves with crowns of paper, they become intoxicated. And on the day after Exmas they are very grave, being internally disordered by the supper and the drinking and reckoning how much they have spent on gifts and on the wine. For wine is so dear among the Niatirbians that a man must swallow the worth of a talent before he is well intoxicated.

Such, then, are their customs about the Exmas. But the few among the Niatirbians have also a festival, separate and to themselves, called Crissmas, which is on the same day as Exmas. And those who keep Crissmas, doing the opposite to the majority of the Niatirbians, rise early on that day with shining faces and go before sunrise to certain temples where they partake of a sacred feast. And in most of the temples they set out images of a fair woman with a new-born Child on her knees and certain animals and shepherds adoring the Child. (The reason of these images is given in a certain sacred story which I know but do not repeat.)

But I myself conversed with a priest in one of these temples and asked him why they kept Crissmas on the same day as Exmas; for it appeared to me inconvenient. But the priest replied, “It is not lawful, O stranger, for us to change the date of Chrissmas, but would that Zeus would put it into the minds of the Niatirbians to keep Exmas at some other time or not to keep it at all. For Exmas and the Rush distract the minds even of the few from sacred things. And we indeed are glad that men should make merry at Crissmas; but in Exmas there is no merriment left.” And when I asked him why they endured the Rush, he replied, “It is, O Stranger, a racket”; using (as I suppose) the words of some oracle and speaking unintelligibly to me (for a racket is an instrument which the barbarians use in a game called tennis).

But what Hecataeus says, that Exmas and Crissmas are the same, is not credible. For first, the pictures which are stamped on the Exmas-cards have nothing to do with the sacred story which the priests tell about Crissmas. And secondly, the most part of the Niatirbians, not believing the religion of the few, nevertheless send the gifts and cards and participate in the Rush and drink, wearing paper caps. But it is not likely that men, even being barbarians, should suffer so many and great things in honour of a god they do not believe in. And now, enough about Niatirb.