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View Full Version : 314 Beater by Annie O's



griffith_d
10-12-2002, 08:46 PM
I found a 314 beater,....the same price and locally grown in Houston,...her name is Annie Mayes. I have had her putting on my Talisman tips and went by today to have another test cue tip put on for Talisman(Tony ask me to test them for Talisman,..by the way Tony,..the Talisman XH+ kicks a..), anyway I ask Annie if she could fit a 314 to my Meucci since I like them on the Pred BK that I have and she said she could but why.

She said, "here, try this and see what you think". She handed me a $1500 cue she made and I started playing,..WOW! she has developed a shaft taper that is incredible(she also has a 24 layer laminated shaft) that beats the 314!!

I know what you are thinking,..I did it myself!! I put the CB at the end of the table with the OB frozen at the other end and it did not deflect at all.

Ok here is what happened,..she went to the cue show and met with Bob Meucci and they used the myth destroyer and her cue beat the 314 by a wide margin!! The Black Dot beat hers only by a 1/4 inch, but the best thing is that it beat hers before she was using her 24 layer,..hers was just a one piece shaft, her taper and other things does,.. she would not tell me. She showed me the results by the "destroyer". It only deflected a little on the test. It showed the 314, hers and Black Dot,..all done on the Myth Destroyer.

The cue I used today is the 24 layer and it did not deflect at all! I nailed that CB with 1 1/2 cue tip english and it hit the OB flush and it did the "hit twice" stuff, you know the sound.

I am sorry,...the 314 is out,...it cannot beat this shaft with her taper,..and the other things she does to the joint and ferrule.

She was sponsored by Predator for 2 years when she was a pro,..you should see the email from Predator about her shaft,...

Annie is for real,....

http://www.annieosproshop.com/

Griff

nAz
10-12-2002, 09:13 PM
24 layers WOW. i gotta check out her web site.
whats the cost of one of those shafts anyway? blank

griffith_d
10-12-2002, 09:19 PM
P.S.

Annie can shoot some pool!! We played a few games, I won a couple she won the rest,...played 5 or 6

Ken
10-12-2002, 10:18 PM
It sounds like she's making a black dot with 24 laminations instead of Meucci's 28. I wouldn't put a lot of faith in the myth destroyer (no pun intended). Bob's machine seems to use a very long bridge. I think it's more a measure of shaft flexion than it is of squirt. I don't think anyone uses a bridge long enough to get the same results as his machine. Bob is the champion of eliminating the squirt caused by a stiff shaft.

Predator has things going on near the tip that are supposed to reduce squirt. I don't think Bob's machine is capable of detecting the effects of predator's design.

If she combiines the whippy shaft with some high-tech tip design she might have something. If the price gets into the $100 range I might be interested. I still don't like the idea of having to line up the dot all the time. I know, you only do it when you are going to use english. That's worse than doing it every time.
KenCT

Cueless Joey
10-12-2002, 10:32 PM
I have no idea how any shaft can have any less squirt than 314. Then the Black Dot beat it? While Annie's got beat by the Black Dot on Meucci's robot?
Frankly, I think it's an exercise in futility. Trying to find a shaft that has lower deflection than a 314. For what? It won't help anyone's game. 314 doesn't squirt greatly less than a well-made quality maple shaft either.
Any cuemaker can make a low-deflection shaft with a good quality shaft and a shorter ferrule.

Harold Acosta
10-12-2002, 11:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Cueless Joey:</font><hr>
Any cuemaker can make a low-deflection shaft with a good quality shaft and a shorter ferrule. <hr></blockquote>

[b]<font color=green>************************************************** *
<font color=black>Any cuemaker can make a better shaft than a 314!

<font color=green>************************************************** *

Cueless Joey
10-12-2002, 11:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Harold Acosta:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Cueless Joey:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt;
Any cuemaker can make a low-deflection shaft with a good quality shaft and a shorter ferrule. &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

[b]<font color=green>************************************************** *
<font color=black>Any cuemaker can make a better shaft than a 314!

<font color=green>************************************************** *


<hr></blockquote>
I wouldn't go that far Harold. There are a ton of hacks out there.

Harold Acosta
10-12-2002, 11:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Cueless Joey:</font><hr> There are a ton of hacks out there. <hr></blockquote>

[b]<font color=blue>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<font color=black>Hacks?.....314's??......Exactly!......LOL!!!!
<font color=blue>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

TonyM
10-12-2002, 11:54 PM
"Any cuemaker can make a low-deflection shaft with a good quality shaft and a shorter ferrule."

This statement is false.

The shaft wood has little or nothing to do with squirt (it might have something to do with stiffness, and radial consistency, but not squirt).

And a short ferrule can only reduce squirt so far.

If it was so easy, Predator would be out of business.

It takes some doing to get around Predator's patent for their low squirt shaft technology (low end mass).

Tony
-trust me on this one....

Rod
10-13-2002, 12:54 AM
Hey Griff, glad your happy that's all that counts. Now look what you have started/ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif. A post that knocks perdator in any way, or just mentions the name should be worth at least 3000 views! ha ha ha ha ha

griffith_d
10-13-2002, 08:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Ken:</font><hr> It sounds like she's making a black dot with 24 laminations instead of Meucci's 28. I wouldn't put a lot of faith in the myth destroyer (no pun intended). Bob's machine seems to use a very long bridge. I think it's more a measure of shaft flexion than it is of squirt. I don't think anyone uses a bridge long enough to get the same results as his machine. Bob is the champion of eliminating the squirt caused by a stiff shaft.

Predator has things going on near the tip that are supposed to reduce squirt. I don't think Bob's machine is capable of detecting the effects of predator's design.

If she combiines the whippy shaft with some high-tech tip design she might have something. If the price gets into the $100 range I might be interested. I still don't like the idea of having to line up the dot all the time. I know, you only do it when you are going to use english. That's worse than doing it every time.
KenCT <hr></blockquote>

I have a Red Dot and have never lined the dot up when I shoot,...maybe that has been the problem. I read what Meucci said about always putting the the dot up,...what a pain in the a.., so I tried it for a few shots and it did not make a difference. This shaft of Annie's made a great difference.

Now, I have not tried the Black Dot, but I figured I did not want flat laminations and have to line up the bullseye dot,..for me it was radial design(314) had to be the best. That is what I had stuck in my head.

I chose to buy Annie's shaft:

1. It shoots as good or better
2. Same cost,..actually a little less(shipping and handling)
3. home grown
4. Any problems, I can drop it off on the way to work(open Saturdays)
5. She kicked my butt in pool(did I say that), I have to get even.

Griff

griffith_d
10-13-2002, 08:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rod:</font><hr> Hey Griff, glad your happy that's all that counts. Now look what you have started/ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif. A post that knocks perdator in any way, or just mentions the name should be worth at least 3000 views! ha ha ha ha ha <hr></blockquote>

Rod

I see you are from Arizona,..do you know Robinson Cues in Scottsdale? He has a cue he made that I really want bad,...or similar.

http://www.robinsoncues.com/catalog/c30.html

I contact him about the cue,...$2200. Too much for me.

Griff

Ken
10-13-2002, 09:23 AM
I guess I am confused. Laminations are flat by definition, thus, my assumption that Annie's shaft is similar in design to the black dot. Is Annie making a shaft that is made of sections like the predator? If that is the case then she does not have "24 laminations" she has 24 sections. Which is it? I much prefer sections to laminations.
KenCT

griffith_d
10-13-2002, 09:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Ken:</font><hr> I guess I am confused. Laminations are flat by definition, thus, my assumption that Annie's shaft is similar in design to the black dot. Is Annie making a shaft that is made of sections like the predator? If that is the case then she does not have "24 laminations" she has 24 sections. Which is it? I much prefer sections to laminations.
KenCT <hr></blockquote>

Her shaft is "flat" laminations, but you would think that "pie" sections would be optimal, and I still think that is true,...but plywood is not stronger because of the laminated sheets,...it is stronger because of cross-grained laminations, making the plies pull against each other in equal and opposite effects,...which is what the flat laminated shafts are.

Predator is the only pie sectioned shaft on the market and will be until their patent runs out, but to think that shafts made by other manufacturers cannot come close to the 314 is well, biased at best.

Trying another shaft, cuemaker, pool table, table cloth, cue tips, cue joints, weights, tip hardness, shaft taper, ferrule material, glue type, pie section butts,....well that is the pool world.

Griff

10-13-2002, 09:54 AM
There is no mention of the shafts on her web site. There are a few makers of laminated blanks on the market. Is that what she is using with her taper, or is she gluing up the shafts herself?

griffith_d
10-13-2002, 10:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> There is no mention of the shafts on her web site. There are a few makers of laminated blanks on the market. Is that what she is using with her taper, or is she gluing up the shafts herself? <hr></blockquote>

I know there is no mention of laminated shafts on her site,...she has not updated her site. She has not said one way or other. Mike Gulyassy has laminated shafts, but I did not know it until I wrote him.

Griff

10-13-2002, 11:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> There is no mention of the shafts on her web site. There are a few makers of laminated blanks on the market. Is that what she is using with her taper, or is she gluing up the shafts herself? <hr></blockquote>

annie bought a box of meucci blanks and is working on them from there. the plywood type lamination is flat, not radial and it's something of a chore keeping the sides where the wood edges are, smooth. i didn't buy one but i fooled with 'em a bit in her shop and one of my league teammates bought 2. the ferrule she has been using is longer than a pred and i assume it has more mass.

i'm sure she is not putting a pred hole in the end of the shaft for that would be wrong.

in any event, anyone who says "that special shaft (pred, annie, meucci etc.) is better on every shot" is probably confused. the benefit of having an alleged low(er) squirt shaft is directly porportional to the velocity of the shot. in 98% of most non-bangers shots it does not matter and the bangers wouldn't notice ever.

i will say that i've known annie for several years and the overall quality of her work has improved nicely over the years. i have referred many friends to her for shaft and tip work and have never had one complaint.

dan

Cueless Joey
10-13-2002, 12:09 PM
Dan says she's using Moochi blanks.
There are a ton of plywoods out there.
Arnot and Barringer make probably better quality plywoods than Moochi.

griffith_d
10-13-2002, 12:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Cueless Joey:</font><hr> Dan says she's using Moochi blanks.
There are a ton of plywoods out there.
Arnot and Barringer make probably better quality plywoods than Moochi. <hr></blockquote>

Some people swear by the ER240 shaft,..

Griff

griffith_d
10-13-2002, 12:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Cueless Joey:</font><hr> Dan says she's using Moochi blanks.
There are a ton of plywoods out there.
Arnot and Barringer make probably better quality plywoods than Moochi. <hr></blockquote>

Yes, now that Dan said it(I was holding back because I was not sure about telling too much), Annie said she buys the laminated shafts from a cue supplier, she did not say Meucci,..but what made them special is the taper and "other things" she does.

Griff

TonyM
10-13-2002, 01:33 PM
"Predator is the only pie sectioned shaft on the market and will be until their patent runs out"

To set the record straight, this is not true. Bill Stroud (Josswest) makes a radially segmented shaft. Kevin Deroo from Canada sells his own version. There is a new radially segmented shaft coming from one of the Asian imports soon (Lucasi?), and Atlas Billiard Supplies sells radially segmented shaft blanks that any cuemaker can buy and make into shafts.

Predators patent does NOT cover the radial segments! In fact, this was originally patented nearly 100 years ago! (you can't patent the same thing twice).

Any cuemaker can make a shaft with radial segments if they want to. It's very difficult to do well, and some attempts that I've seen are just awful.

Predator's patent only covers their low squirt, low end-mass designs in the last 6" of the shaft.

Why not buy a blank from Atlas and have Annie turn one up for you?

Here's the link:
http://www.cuestik.com/Products.asp?GroupID=110

They have two different radially segmented blanks for sale, with hokey names to boot!

Tony
-likes segmented shafts in principal...

griffith_d
10-13-2002, 01:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: TonyM:</font><hr> "Predator is the only pie sectioned shaft on the market and will be until their patent runs out"

To set the record straight, this is not true. Bill Stroud (Josswest) makes a radially segmented shaft. Kevin Deroo from Canada sells his own version. There is a new radially segmented shaft coming from one of the Asian imports soon (Lucasi?), and Atlas Billiard Supplies sells radially segmented shaft blanks that any cuemaker can buy and make into shafts.

Predators patent does NOT cover the radial segments! In fact, this was originally patented nearly 100 years ago! (you can't patent the same thing twice).

Any cuemaker can make a shaft with radial segments if they want to. It's very difficult to do well, and some attempts that I've seen are just awful.

Predator's patent only covers their low squirt, low end-mass designs in the last 6" of the shaft.

Why not buy a blank from Atlas and have Annie turn one up for you?

Here's the link:
<a target="_blank" href=http://www.cuestik.com/Products.asp?GroupID=110>http://www.cuestik.com/Products.asp?GroupID=110</a>

They have two different radially segmented blanks for sale, with hokey names to boot!

Tony
-likes segmented shafts in principal...

<hr></blockquote>

ok

10-15-2002, 10:22 AM
ken where are you in conn maybe we can play steve

SpiderMan
10-15-2002, 12:51 PM
I don't trust the results of the "myth destroyer" test, as it is colored by ball/ball interaction.

Perform the standard stop-shot squirt test, and tell us where the pivot point for natural compensation appears to be located. That's a test for which Predator and many other results are easily obtained.

SpiderMan

Ken
10-15-2002, 09:42 PM
Steve, I'm in the northeast near Willimantic. It's called the "quiet corner" and it sure is. The nearest real pool room is 20 miles away in Manchester at Larry Lisciotti's. I play some in Berlin at Ultimate and that's 43 miles away. They have a 3 hour special in the afternoon for $5. If you're anyway near there let me know. My e-mail is kewgardens@juno.com. I'll probably be at Bristol for the Joss this weekend.
Ken

10-16-2002, 04:45 AM
Has anyone heard of the shaft SharpShooter? It is a 21 layer laminate shaft that claims to play as well as the 314 and black dot.

griffith_d
10-16-2002, 05:56 AM
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: mattyap:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; Has anyone heard of the shaft SharpShooter? It is a 21 layer laminate shaft that claims to play as well as the 314 and black dot. &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Edwin Reyes has a layered shaft that has 240 radial layers. It is supposed to be excellent. A lot of Asian players use it.

http://www.alpha-billiard.com/art/art22.html



Griff