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View Full Version : Break down Break cue rule?



10-15-2002, 08:38 AM
I was playing this guy (9-ball) in a race to 4 (winner breaks)recently and had him down 3-0 when I start aiming at the 8 ball he calmly starts breaking down his cue in full view of me. I never played this guy before and so I don't say anything and continued to shoot and miss the 8 ball, leaving him with an easy out. After he pockets the nine I calmly ask him why he was breaking down his cue before I finished the rack saying that this is usually loss of game for the person breaking down their cue... He said to me,"I was breaking down my (Break Cue) because I knew I would not be using it the rest of the set". Does this sound legal? I won the next game but I had mixed feelings about this guy. Does anyone have a ruling on this?

Uncle Ron in SC

nmshooter
10-15-2002, 08:41 AM
Were you playing league? What league? Was it a tourney?

10-15-2002, 08:47 AM
Breaking down the cue is conceding the match. It doesn't matter what happens afterwards because the match is over once a player breaks down his cue. You won. Too bad you didn't know the rule. The only exception is changing shafts, which needs to be announced by the player between turns at the table. You got cheated.

10-15-2002, 08:52 AM
It was an(out of town) tournament... I knew no one there...They were using standard (9-ball) game rules...

Uncle Ron in SC

"Nothing in this world is perfect".

10-15-2002, 08:55 AM
It was his "Break Cue" he was breaking down...

Uncle Ron in SC

nmshooter
10-15-2002, 09:07 AM
Well, I have played in many 9 ball tournaments that used different organizations rules, and some have used adaptions of 2 or 3 mixed in all together. It is not a standardized 9 ball rule per say. Its more of a sportsmanship rule as some players use it as a sharking tactic.

Most tournaments I have gone to have had player meetings before the tourney discussing rules and conduct. Since you were new to this tourney or an "out of towner" I would have definitely asked the TD.

I dont think it matters if it was his "breaking" cue or his "shooting" cue. As I said before, I think that rule was made in most organizations to prevent the sharking. If it was just a small tourney for bangers and locals, like a bar tourney, then I would think they really dont enforce the stringent rules as some organizations do.

I have played in tournaments that considered that breaking down your cue (break or shooting) was conceding the game. Penalty was an extra game and sometimes match and have played in others where they said it meant nothing.

cheesemouse
10-15-2002, 09:14 AM
anon,
I think the path of least resistance, if it ever happens to you again, is to simply get off the shot and go shake the guys hand, if he is taken back calmly explain that he broke down and it is lose of game/match. It could be that he doesn't know the rule or he could be sharking and you just busted him. Either way you remain the good guy.

Cueless Joey
10-15-2002, 09:26 AM
It was a shark move. Breaking your break cue on a hill-hill match while YOU are shooting is ok.
But breaking your break cue or moving in front of the shooter is sharking, period.

10-15-2002, 04:18 PM
It doesn't matter which cue it is. It's still loss of match. It was the "shark" in the move that makes it loss of match. You can't even break down your jump cue. Once you put it together it has to stay that way until the match is over.

10-15-2002, 04:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Cueless Joey:</font><hr> It was a shark move. Breaking your break cue on a hill-hill match while YOU are shooting is ok.
But breaking your break cue or moving in front of the shooter is sharking, period. <hr></blockquote>

i totally agree that it's a shark move but the way the bca rule is written does raise some room for argument.

1.14CONCESSION:

"if a player concedes, he loses the match. that is, if a player attempts to unscrew his jointed PLAYING(emphasis mine) cue stick while the opponent is at the table and during the opponent's decisive game of the match, it will be considered a concession of the match."

now, why did they use the word "playing"? if they meant any old cue, break, jump or whatever then they would not have put the word "playing" in there, would they?

by close read of the rule, it may well be a legal shark.

dan

10-15-2002, 07:18 PM
If it was a tournament, what ever the rule you are playing by would apply. You could wait and call over the tournament director. If you were just matched and gambling, you could ask him if he concedes, but other then that a lot of the tournament rules don't really apply. You have to get used to it. If you don't like the way the guy conducts himself, don't play him anymore.

10-15-2002, 07:27 PM
What is the intent of the rule? If the intent is to avoid sharking then the BCA has contradicted itself by not including all cues. I can't imagine what other intent there could be for that rule other than to avoid a sharking technique.

Ralph S.
10-16-2002, 07:22 AM
I consider it to be a shark move but more so I consider it flat out concession. You win. End of match.
Ralph S.

nmshooter
10-16-2002, 07:55 AM
The way I see it is "playing" means any cue you "play" with. It doesnt matter if its your "shooting" cue or your "break" cue or your "jump" cue. You play with all 3. So any of them could translate into a loss.

I think what should be more at issue is what rules are governing this match. I stated from the beginning that loss of match from concession may be a rule within BCA or any number of organizations but its not a standard rule of the game of 9 ball and is not enforced in many other tourneys so he needs to check whatever rules are being used in his tourney.

NH_Steve
10-16-2002, 08:00 AM
Long ago I got real tired of players pulling that, along with other 'end of game' sharking moves -- like throwing the money down, or picking up the racking triangle while you're still shooting. And these guys that do that will ALWAYS insist that they mean no harm in pulling the move -- they just innocently claim they just assume you're going to make the ball, and of course a 'real' player would not let something silly like that distract them /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif . I always hated that it seemed to make me look bad that I objected or complained, so I came up with this:

I reach into the nearest pocket (on drop pocket tables -- I guess you'd need a slight variation for gutters) and start rolling balls down for racking -- but being careful not to actually disturb any balls left on the table. That's my way of 'accepting their concession', but it still allows for shooting (in the rare situation should a tournament director require it), as I have not actually disturbed the balls in play. Usually the player follows through with their concession -- but once in a while grumbles, and once I had a guy go a bit ballistic (though he still conceeded).

Shaking hands, or picking up the cash, or sliding the beads over in your score (again, without disturbing the balls in play) might be just as effective, but I like my method on drop pockets, because it is pretty subtle (people get touchy about their cash for some reason!), and throws the 'shark' right back at them. If it happens repeatedly and they start to complain, only then would I point out that if they want me to finish shooting, they simply need to 'stay still &amp; let me shoot', and naturally I will always shoot the last ball -- I'm only stopping because they appear to be conceeding. That way THEY are the wus that is complaining -- not me.

griffith_d
10-16-2002, 11:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> Breaking down the cue is conceding the match. It doesn't matter what happens afterwards because the match is over once a player breaks down his cue. You won. Too bad you didn't know the rule. The only exception is changing shafts, which needs to be announced by the player between turns at the table. You got cheated. <hr></blockquote>

I have never heard of such of rule,...good to know. But that breaking down "stuff" is so old,...don't let it bother you,...is just more table talk,...non-verbal.

Griff

10-16-2002, 11:19 PM
Like your Bucky quote, Jim.

Regards,
Bob