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View Full Version : Bunjee Jump/break cue....



10-21-2002, 02:08 AM
Anyone own/use these cues, I've been looking for a good cheap jump/break cue and was going to go with a Falcon until I read about this one and checked them out. I'd like to hear some real experience with them, mostly what kind of a hit do they have? Solid? Do they break nice? I looked at them on the site and it seems they have a leather wrap, can you get them in Irish Linen? Thanks for your help guys.

Perk
10-21-2002, 05:19 AM
Well, I never saw the Bunjee/Jump Break, but friends of mine use and let me hit their Bunjee Jump cue. As a jumping cue they work really well. Effortless to clear full balls, therefore you can focus on the accuracy/english. If the Jump/break is made by the same Bunjee, I would presume that it would be efficient at both.

10-21-2002, 07:46 AM
Their quality is low, but they are cheap so you get what you pay for. The jump cues are on ebay and often go for $39 to $59. and these are new cues from dealers. Do they work, yes, but so do many others that are nicer quality.

rackmup
10-21-2002, 08:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Jim Price:</font><hr>Their quality is low, but they are cheap so you get what you pay for.<hr></blockquote>

My friend, you do not know of what you speak. For the money, the Bunjee JC is probably the best money a player can spend if they wish to have an extra weapon in their case.

The JC/Break combo also does the job as well as any break cue on the market.

By what do you guage their performance/quality? The fact that the cues are plain in appearance and not embellished with adornments does not in any way detract from their performance.

I have played with both and found them to be of substantial worth and quality and they are certainly better than a house cue that most players use for breaking.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Jim Price:</font><hr>...but so do many others that are nicer quality.<hr></blockquote>

Name the "better" Jump Cues and Jump/Break combos please. I've seen and used the "Frog", and the Lucasi Jump cues. They both performed on the same level as the Bunjee with the Lucasi having a definite edge in the appearance category. Lucasi also offers a unique joint protector that prevents the butt of the cue from falling into the depths of the tube of your case. The "Frog" is cheap and ugly in appearance but Spiderman uses one with deft ability.

I own a $300 Predator BK along with an extra $190. BK shaft and while it breaks well, the Bunjee break cue does the same job at a fraction of the cost.

My jump cue is an 18 year old Sammy Jones Meucci Originals with a Bunjee tip and it looks great and performs as well (in my opinion) as any JC on the market and I only paid $50. for it.

Again...just my opinion but it is based on my use of the aforementioned cues and not second-hand information or opinions based on selling price or appearance.

Regards,

Ken

Voodoo Daddy
10-21-2002, 09:07 AM
Folks, this guy is a friend of mine...good kid. Help him out as much as you can. Nice to see the young gun finally post!!!

rackmup
10-21-2002, 09:10 AM
For the money, you cannot go wrong. If you're not afraid of ordering through the web, visit Hawley's at <a target="_blank" href=http://www.hawleys.com>www.hawleys.com</a> for the guaranteed best prices on the net. Call and ask for Ed, Michelle or Sharon and they will take good care of you.

Regards,

Ken (BTW...welcome to the CCB)

10-21-2002, 01:13 PM
Wow, thanks a lot for the quick responses guys, I finally found a good, cheap jump/break cue. Steve, I thank you for the props. /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif I'm gonna check out Hawleys

10-21-2002, 05:51 PM
They come with crooked shafts, bad finish and have an overall look of cheapness about them. They even have a disclaimer on the website as to the quality. As far as a better cue, the jump cue is a well known concept any cuemaker so inclined will make you. If the cue is between 7 and 8 ounces and has a phenolic tip the ball will jump, probably equal to the Bungee. I doubt you will find a cue maker that will build you anything for $39.00 though, so they have the market for the cheap cues locked up. To be honest, their design of a butt as skinny as the shaft to keep the weight down is terrible. It serves their purposes but for the player it does not feel all that good. Most real cuemakers that build you a jump cue will make it longer and make the butt thicker for a better feel while keeping the weight down. You will have a better looking, better feeling jump cue and it will perform as good as any jump cue. It will however not cost $39.00. Like I said, you get what you pay for.

rackmup
10-21-2002, 06:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Jim Price:</font><hr>To be honest, their design of a butt as skinny as the shaft to keep the weight down is terrible. It serves their purposes but for the player it does not feel all that good.<hr></blockquote>

There is one on Ebay (used) currently at a bid of $31.00. There is one other seller that is offering the cues for $49.00.

My questions are:

Have you ever used one?
By what method did you determine "but for the player it does not feel all that good." I'm assuming you conducted a poll or something. That must have been a lot of work.
You said "To be honest, their design of a butt as skinny as the shaft to keep the weight down is terrible." I question if you have ever really used one as the butt is a different diameter than the shaft.
Further, you said "They come with crooked shafts, bad finish and have an overall look of cheapness about them." Granted, if Neiman Marcus sold them, they might fit your "frilly" needs.
Sorry to keep pointing out your absurdity but, you said "If the cue is between 7 and 8 ounces and has a phenolic tip the ball will jump, probably equal to the Bungee." Are you looking for something made of balsa wood?
Quote: "...so they have the market for the cheap cues locked up." No sir...that would be a company called "Homemade Cues by Buford".
Again: "Most real cuemakers that build you a jump cue will make it longer and make the butt thicker for a better feel while keeping the weight down." JJ Cues makes a jump cue that is an exact knockoff of the Bunjee. Are you calling JJ Customs something other than a real cuemaker???
Your last inane quote: "They even have a disclaimer on the website as to the quality." Are you talking about the GUARANTEE?: <blockquote><font class="small">Quote: from Bunjee Website:</font><hr>Guarantee

Every BunjeeJumper is sold with a 100% Money Back Guarantee. We manufacture the BunjeeJumper to be primarily a tool. We are not as concerned with the cosmetics. Some cues will not be perfectly straight, some will have blemishes or scratches. This way we can keep the price reasonable. We guarantee that every BunjeeJumper will function as advertised. Please try the BunjeeJumper for 14 days. Within that period you may return it for any reason for a full refund or a replacement, for construction defects and damage not caused by owner negligence. We will repair or replace the defective cue at our discretion for 12 months.

We promise to inspect all cues before we deliver to insure that you do not receive a cue with obvious construction defects.<hr></blockquote>

I don't know about you and all of the high-falootin' gear you might own but I wish everyone offered such a guarantee.

Mr. Price...with all due respect, I believe your hate for the Bunjee stems from the fact that you don't know much about them and the unknown often scares people OR you simply are angry because you went to EBay and spent your $39.00 and cannot figure out how to use the cue that several top-name pros have in their cases.

Regards,

Ken (Defender of the Bunjee, doer of good deeds, admirer of Lorri's voice and laugh and sender of gifts to Kato)

10-21-2002, 06:48 PM
I would like to answer your post, but you are not capable of a dialog.

rackmup
10-21-2002, 06:52 PM
You would like to answer my post but you are not capable of answering the questions I asked! It's okay... a lot of "newbie" posters come onto the CCB and immediately try to look like the "know-all-tell-all" authorities on pool but ultimately, wind up looking...well, just a little silly.

Regards,

Ken

10-21-2002, 07:05 PM
I don't care to be insulted. If you are going to the Derby City tournament, I will be playing and we can play some. Just come up and introduce yourself. We will just leave it at that.

Jay M
10-21-2002, 07:12 PM
Ken,
Personally I disagree with the Bungee's and know a lot of top pros that won't pull theirs out of the case unless their opponent uses one. It's even become a part of the "weight" negotiations now. I recently heard, "I'll give you the 7 if we agree not to use jump cues"

One of the better players in a local hall just got one and I can still out-jump him with him using the jump cue and me using my playing cue.

I'll take a stab at some of your questions, but some of them are specific to Mr. Price

Have you ever used one?
Sure have, I jump the same with a jump cue that I do with a playing cue. (Ask Holly about my jumping)

By what method did you determine "but for the player it does not feel all that good." I'm assuming you conducted a poll or something. That must have been a lot of work.

Pass on this one, it just feels like another cue to me.

You said "To be honest, their design of a butt as skinny as the shaft to keep the weight down is terrible." I question if you have ever really used one as the butt is a different diameter than the shaft.

I think it's the taper that continues all the way up the cue that was being referred to. Playing cues don't have a continuous taper, they have one ratio for the shaft and another one for the butt, with the butt rapidly widening

Further, you said "They come with crooked shafts, bad finish and have an overall look of cheapness about them." Granted, if Neiman Marcus sold them, they might fit your "frilly" needs.

no comment, I don't care about the looks as much as the hit

Sorry to keep pointing out your absurdity but, you said "If the cue is between 7 and 8 ounces and has a phenolic tip the ball will jump, probably equal to the Bungee." Are you looking for something made of balsa wood?

heh...

Mr. Price...with all due respect, I believe your hate for the Bunjee stems from the fact that you don't know much about them and the unknown often scares people OR you simply are angry because you went to EBay and spent your $39.00 and cannot figure out how to use the cue that several top-name pros have in their cases.



<hr></blockquote>

My personal reasoning has to do with all the time I put into learning all of the intricacies of the jump shot, which can now be accomplished within a short time. It only takes a couple of months of practice with a jump cue to reach the same level of accuracy that I spent years learning with my play cue.

Jay M

rackmup
10-21-2002, 07:17 PM
Jay,

Can you jump an obstructing ball, one ball width away from the cueball, with your playing cue and leather tip?

If yes...you are a POOL GOD.

Regards,

Ken (not a POOL GOD)

rackmup
10-21-2002, 07:22 PM
Mr. Price:

I was not nor will I ever question your pool playing prowess. Don't read anything into what I asked you nor feel that I am doubting what a fabulous player you are. I am certain that I cannot hold a candle to your mastery of the game.

Simply answer the questions I asked. You blasted a product that I believe you know very little about. You stated their warranty was a "Disclaimer" when in fact, it is simply a written guarantee that you will be satisfied with their product. Bunjee is open about the possible flaws and that in my mind, is an upright company.

Your sensitivity worries me. Worrying about my skills vs. your skills will not add a day to your life. Relax. Enjoy the view. Answer the questions instead of threatening to bully the others on the playground.

Regards,

Ken (brings out the sensitive side of others)

10-21-2002, 07:47 PM
Here is my original post:
{"Their quality is low, but they are cheap so you get what you pay for. The jump cues are on ebay and often go for $39 to $59. and these are new cues from dealers. Do they work, yes, but so do many others that are nicer quality."}

I think I may not have made it clear that the cues on ebay I was referring to are the Bungee cues.

I don't see anything I feel I would say is not accurate, and it is certainly not an attack on the cue. As far as their guarantee, it is easy to guarantee something cheap. People don't expect much and it does work. I don't think I have ever seen such a disclaimer on any product pool or otherwise though. In effect they say our product may be junk but it is cheap and it works. That's pretty funny you have to admit. The point is, they don't have some secret formula. You try to give the impression that they are doing something no other cuemakers, (I hate the idea of even calling them cuemakers), know how to do. That is just wrong. I like nice things and given a choice, I prefer a nice cue.

Jay M
10-21-2002, 08:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: rackmup:</font><hr> Jay,

Can you jump an obstructing ball, one ball width away from the cueball, with your playing cue and leather tip?

If yes...you are a POOL GOD.

Regards,

Ken (not a POOL GOD) <hr></blockquote>

Yes, actually I can, and did against Holly when we were getting ready for a scotch doubles tournament and again in our first match. One ball width away , length of the table jump with draw for position both times.

START(
%Ag1S8%Bd7F6%HQ7P1%IH1L1%PE4K6%U]4J4%Vf6S5%Ws4[1%Xg3T0%eB5`9
%_f5S7%`J3K0%aE6K6
)END

I know this looks like a masse, but I was trying to illustrate a jump. There were some other balls on the table, but they were't pertinent to the shot.

That was with my 18.7 oz McDermott RS-12 and a Moori medium hard tip (which is harder to jump with than the lePro on my break cue)

Jay M

10-22-2002, 12:24 AM
I was on the point of buying a Falcon three piece jump/break _until_ I tried the Bunjee.

IMO, there is absolutely no comparison. The Bunjee is simply in a different class. Don't waste your time with the three-piece.

Now, it might be interesting to put a Bunjee tip on the Falcon because the Bunjee's biggest advantage is the super-hard tip. That would probably improve its jump capability a lot. Anyone done this ?

10-22-2002, 03:34 AM
Guys, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cause a debate. I was just questioning a jump/break cue of my budget. Lol I think I'll go with it, at $159 and that kind of guarentee, I don't think I can go wrong.

Voodoo Daddy
10-22-2002, 05:48 AM
Dudg...dont appologize for anything. Fighting/Bickering/Bitching has become staple here as of late. Let them scrap it out...or they will follow each other around from post to post sniping each other...nature of the board anymore...HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

rackmup
10-22-2002, 11:05 AM
You Sir, are a POOL GOD. That's all I have to say.

I cannot imagine being able to pull that jump off with anything but a jump cue with a rock-hard tip and using a "dart stroke".

I applaud your abilities and will be moving into your home for lessons (meals and lodging included) for the next three weeks. LOL.

Respectfully,

Ken

Chris Cass
10-22-2002, 11:23 AM
Welcome to the board Dudg,

Don't worry about anything. The thing everyone has failed to remember is the rule we have hear at the CCB. That's the " right to agree to disagree ". One of my favorites. It's the adult way of handling things with common respect for one another. The disagreements are also healthy for ones right to choose one peice of equipment based on their personal opinions.

If it wasn't for good arguements, we would shoot with the same equipment. Then, everyone would be taking my South West home with them. /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif HAHAHAHAHA

Regards,

C.C.~~in cohoots with Voodoo

rackmup
10-22-2002, 11:39 AM
I agree with CC.

Although most of my posts are an attempt at humor, some are also laced with dry wit that unfortunately, you cannot see over the Internet.

I do however, feel strongly about someone bashing a piece of equipment that is truly a valuable tool regardless of minor asthetic imperfections.

Hey...if you need a $1400. jump cue to feel good about taking it out of your case, I'm certain there are several custom cumakers that will take the cash to make you happy.

Welcome to the board where all are not nearly as grumpy. testy and mean as I am.

Regards,

Ken (Be careful around those people who have bought into negativity, because they have an uncanny ability of selling it as well.)

Chris Cass
10-22-2002, 12:03 PM
Ken,

I might not agree with what some peoples ideas on equipment, especially cosmetics. I could care less about a break cue that's not flush in the joint, mine isn't. It's all about what it does for you. It's about how you personally feel and most importantly, how you perform with it.

Anyway, as long as I've known you. I concider you to be straight up and I find your humor really great. You know I respect you and your opinions and come to the board every now and then to look for your posts to cheer me up. You also, have a great deal of good arguements on equipment and aren't afraid to express your thoughts.

It's a known fact that life has dealt you some bad hands and have had a rough road to take lately. I admire your ability to bounce back and take control. Keeping a happy outlook and that just amazes the heck out of me. Your a good man Ken, and I value our friendship. I also wish everything works out for you. I don't think I have to tell you, I'm their for ya brother.

Voodoo, if you read this? Your another!

Regards,

C.C.~~teaching Kato to shuck corn. Now, if I only knew what a shucker was?

10-22-2002, 12:13 PM
So when we meet in a few months I will know you by the K-Mart outfit you will be wearing? The one with the pattern that doesn't match at the shoulder seam and the miss placed buttons. Good quality does not mean over priced. It just expresses an appreciation for the quality itself. I can't help but ask what cue you play with in general? I doubt you even believe what you say yourself, you just like to argue and make personal digs. I get it now though so I know what to expect.

eg8r
10-22-2002, 12:25 PM
Jay, just because the top pro does not bring their jump cue out until the other brings his out, does not have anything to do with the cue or its quality. It just means that that top pro feels he is not going to use the tools in his case. Sounds dumb to me, unless they agree together not to use them. I remember being at the tourny at Pro billiards when you were playing Earl (I was sitting on the bench right next to your table). Earl was blowing off at the lips about how he hates the fact that people are using jump cues. He was complaining that it took him so long to learn how to jump with a regular cue and he did not feel that person put the effort into learning it themselves. This would give Earl the upper hand. Also, he was complaining about them being able to jump out of his safeties. Instead of saying, man, after all that time I spent learning how to jump with my playing cue, I should have spent the little bit of extra time making sure when I play a safety he will not be able to jump out of it with the little "jumpy" cue.

I am not saying anything negative about Earl, I am just pointing out another pro caliber players opinion about the cue. He is biased against the use of a jump cue because he does not want to give away his advantage.

In the case of weight, IMHO the reason they negotiate the change based purely on the use of a jump cue is either one player does not have one (tough, go buy one they are cheap) or the one player does not know how to use it.

Also, could you please make a little movie file of you doing this awesome jump with your regular cue. I don't doubt you can do it, but I would love to see it happen.

eg8r

rackmup
10-22-2002, 12:36 PM
My dear, misunderstood friend,

I play with a Schon LTD. 647. I break with a Predator BK and jump with a Meucci Sammy Jones JC. I carry all of them in a black leather Instroke case. I have extra shafts for all but the JC.

And my clothing isn't from K-Mart. They are simply too expensive. I get my clothing out of the Goodwill drop box, late at night, when no one is watching. I match almost all of my clothing by utilizing the time-tested "Garanimals" method.

You are waaaay too sensitive and for someone who says "you just like to argue and make personal digs" in one breath and then ridicules another for his comments certainly shouldn't live in a glass house.

Now, again, I suggest you relax, get that blood pressure down to a manageable level and consider retiring from the game again. You are far to touchy for a guy that passes himself off as a player. The railbirds must drive you crazy.

And yes...I'm laughing AT you, not WITH you.

Regards,

Ken (worked for a guy named Jim Price in Arizona once. He was a little touchy too.)

eg8r
10-22-2002, 12:38 PM
Could you please post what it is about the gaurantee that you don't like.

Gaurantee from website:
Every BunjeeJumper is soled with a 100% Money Back Guarantee. We manufacture the BunjeeJumper to be primarily a tool. We are not as concerned with the cosmetics. Some cues will not be perfectly straight, some will have blemishes or scratches. This way we can keep the price reasonable. We guarantee that every BunjeeJumper will function as advertised. Please try the BunjeeJumper for 14 days. Within that period you may return it for any reason for a full refund or a replacement, for construction defects and damage not caused by owner negligence. We will repair or replace the defective cue at our discretion for 12 months.

We promise to inspect all cues before we deliver to insure that you do not receive a cue with obvious construction defects.

The gaurantee states, they are in no way trying to make the cue pretty. There you have it. This must be the reason you dread calling them a cue maker (or whatever you called them). I am a bunjee owner and I guess I am defending them, but I am also using a little judgement in doing so. First, I knew straigh off the bat, that in order to get an affordable cue I did not want a pretty cue or a perfect cue. I was in need of a cue that would make a jump shot easier. In knowing this knowledge prior to my purchase and see their gaurantee I knew that they "gauranteed" their cue would meet my expectations. Those being: 1. A jump cue, 2. A jump cue they stood behind with a gaurantee, 3. A trial period to make sure it did what they gauranteed, 4. It was not broken when I got it.

Guess what they met all the expectations and I am a happy customer. Does this mean that I set my level of satisfaction low, nope (you would be ignorant to think this). What it means is that I wanted a cue to meet those prior expectations, and I found a company that offered it. I have had my bunjee for a year or so now, and I still have nothing wrong with it.

One last thing, you are quoting prices from Ebay. This is asinine (sp?). Why are you not quoting the prices from the website or from retail companies. Ebay is not a retail environment. The price for the jumpers is around the 70 to 80 dollar range. If you want a nicer looking one, then it costs a little bit more.

eg8r

rackmup
10-22-2002, 12:55 PM
My Brother,

Your kind words do not go without sincere appreciation. While it is true that this year has not been the best, to dwell on it would serve no purpose. It would neither take away the pain nor erase the memory of it. Instead, I choose to face adversity head-on and move forward with a smile on my face and no hatred in my heart.

I know that a greater power causes everything to work together for the good of those that believe so that is the path I choose to walk.

Loyal friends are a gift and your friendship is cherished as is that of Dr_D, Kato, Lorri, OnePocketChamp, Eg8r and others that I have met here on the CCB.

Press on my Brother.

Regards,

Ken

10-22-2002, 02:51 PM
Ebay is no longer the equivalent of a garage sale, but a legitimate market place. A great number of the seller are retailers and the prices they offer affect the market. You know that, don't you sell the Omen cues on ebay? I could be wrong but I think it is you. They are brand new cues and the prices you sell them for is their market, regardless what they sell for elsewhere.

10-22-2002, 03:06 PM
Could no wait to tell me what you own, what a hypocrite. Again with the insults.

10-22-2002, 04:51 PM
Thanmks for all the replies guys, MOST of you have been a big help. /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif


Steve, thanks man. I haven't talked to you in a while. I answered the phone when you called the pool hall the other night, but I didn't know for sure if it was you. Bevo was supposed to let me talk to you, but yet again, he forgot. He's having some rough times right now. I'm getting ready to go down there, I'll try to get him to call ya, if he ain't "too busy" /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif See ya

eg8r
10-22-2002, 08:21 PM
lol, nope that is not me. I just buy accu stats tapes there. those are sold for much less usually around half price.

eg8r

rackmup
10-22-2002, 08:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Jim Price:</font><hr>I can't help but ask what cue you play with in general? <hr></blockquote>

Ummm...Jim? You asked. Unlike yourself, I answered your questions.

Time to lay the bottle down for a few days my friend...it's eating at your brain cells.

Regards,

Ken

10-22-2002, 09:52 PM
I am sorry, it is a guy called 8-n-out. I know you do buy on there though, I remember your name.

10-22-2002, 09:56 PM
Your a sad case. I think the ex-wife made the right decision. What a pathetic loser.

Jay M
10-23-2002, 07:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: eg8r:</font><hr>
Jay, just because the top pro does not bring their jump cue out until the other brings his out, does not have anything to do with the cue or its quality. It just means that that top pro feels he is not going to use the tools in his case.
<hr></blockquote>

You're correct about the cue and quality, I wasn't addressing that point. I hit a few balls with a bungee at the US Open a year or so ago. They are decent quality and have a solid feel to them.
The true secret to why they jump so well is two-fold. The tip and the way they feel when you hold them. The tip is VERY hard, which is a big part of why they are easy to jump with. But then, I have a 5 year old lepro tip on my meucci that jumps just as well due to the aging, it's hard as a rock (maybe harder).

The feel of the bungee is the reason that the learning curve is shorter. When you jump with a playing cue, the body position feels really awkward and the mechanics don't allow for a normal stroke. A dart stroke isn't impossible with a playing cue, but it would be nearly impossible to control. The length of the jump cue makes it possible to use a dart stroke and eliminate the awkwardness.

The main reason that a lot of pros, especially the ones that have been around for a while, don't like jump cues is that jump cues are a perversion of the original game. (Yes, I know I'll get flamed for this, but I'm not going to argue. I'm just stating an opinion). You see, Earl (Strickland) actually introduced the controlled jump shot to tournament play, prior to that it was a strictly artistic shot. Players started picking it up and someone noticed that it was easier to jump with just the shaft.

In fact, it was SO much easier to jump with the shaft and a dart stroke that they outlawed it and made length requirements. Some person then created a jump rod. Jump rods were usually metal, had a tip about the diameter of a quarter, weighed about 25 oz. and were exactly the minimum length.

Again it was a mess, everyone was jumping balls from right next to them, if the ball wasn't frozen, it was jumpable. In finding a way to get rid of these cues, the only thing that could really be found was that the tip didn't have any leather content. So they made the requirement that tips have leather content. Thus the jump cue was born.

It's a deliberate attempt to manipulate the rules to gain an advantage without having to practice the skill the way everyone else did.

At the tournament at Pro Billiards, it went full circle again. One of the players that was up against Richie Richeson had a jump shot. He pulled out his spare shaft and attached a DRINKING STRAW to the pin. That made the cue fit all of the requirements of a jump cue. The total length, including the straw, was enough, the tip was definitely leather. Guess what, IT WAS LEGAL!!! Richeson challenged the use of the shaft, I later found out the other player asked Richie to challenge it just to see what would happen. The resulting call was that it was ok.

So why buy a jump cue? All you have to do is put a drinking straw on the pin of your shaft and you have a jump rod that works as well as anything out there.

Yes, I drew this out a bit, but my point is that a jump cue is a manipulation of a poorly written rule that was created specifically to remove those types of cues from the game. Even though they are available and legal (barely), I will continue to use my playing cue to jump with. I invested the time to learn the shot, I'll continue shooting it. And one day, when they figure out a way to re-write the rule removing the legality of jump cues, I'll still be able to execute the shot.

I know that someone is going to throw out the argument that it's an advancement of the game and makes use of technology. That may be true, BUT it's not the cues themselves that rub the wrong way, it's the violation of the SPIRIT of the rules (any lawyers out there will be familiar with this concept). This actually falls into the same category as whether you call a foul on yourself or not. The rules don't require you to call a self-foul. So some players won't do it under any circumstances. Some will even go so far as to foul deliberately and hope the opponent doesn't know it. They do it JUST BECAUSE THE RULES ALLOW THEM TO, even though it is a violation of the spirit of the rule.

OK, before I wander too far off subject, I'll summarize here.

Jump cues=bad
practiced skill=good

IMO
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: eg8r:</font><hr>
Also, could you please make a little movie file of you doing this awesome jump with your regular cue. I don't doubt you can do it, but I would love to see it happen.
<hr></blockquote>

I'll have to find someone with a video camera. I don't have one and haven't ever had a use for one. If I can borrow one from somewhere I'll make a clip for you.

Jay M

rackmup
10-23-2002, 08:09 AM
I wish to thank you for the kind comments. It makes one admire you even more. What a gem you must be to your friends, family and community. God bless you.

Regards,

Ken

Chris Cass
10-23-2002, 09:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Jim Price:</font><hr> Your a sad case. I think the ex-wife made the right decision. What a pathetic loser. <hr></blockquote>

Jim,

That was totally out of line. Your wrong Jim and bringing up ones personal life is wrong too. Just because someone disagrees with you that doesn't give you the right to publically embarrass them.

Sure, Ken feels strongly about the things he believes in and does dish out some of his brand of dry humor. Does that make it worth this response? Your way to serious Jim. You need to sit back and laugh it off. I can tell right now, your an easy game. All anyone has to do is disagree with you and rib you a few times and you'll lose every dime you have.

What's the big deal? We're talking apple to oranges here Jim. He didn't stiff you out of money or sleep with the wife. So, give the man some respect for his own beliefs and you'll get some back. I hate to say this Jim but, you sound like a grumpy old crotchety fart at the ph where I play.

I for one respect your right to have your own opinion. Yes, I agree you. You do get, what you pay for in cues. I also agree with Ken about the fact being. If the cue you buy does the job intended, cosmetics and cost doesn't mean a thing. That's like saying, the difference between a plain jane cue vs a fancy S.W. If the cue performs right for you, and it's cheap and doesn't look perfect? Who cares? I know a guy in Mn. named Jamie Pluta. He shoots with a Coca-Cola cue. This guy can get out from anywhere. He's like freakin Hudini.

This isn't about sticking up for a close friend although, Ken is one of mine. It's about what's right and what I believe to be right. I'm sure you realize, this wasn't the thing to say.

C.C.~~it's easier to make an enemy, than a friend. a friend takes work but the rewards are tenfold.

bluewolf
10-23-2002, 09:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Chris Cass:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Jim Price:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; Your a sad case. I think the ex-wife made the right decision. What a pathetic loser. &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Jim,

That was totally out of line. Your wrong Jim and bringing up ones personal life is wrong too. Just because someone disagrees with you that doesn't give you the right to publically embarrass them.

<hr></blockquote>

Chris, you said exactlly what I was thinking.It is indeed a low blow to bring up things of a personal nature.To do so implies malicious intent.

After the fran thing died down, people talked about the usopen and ccb tour. once that died down, many on this forum have been attacking other members and anons attacking them too.

I havent been here too long, but it seemed more friendly 3 months ago.I am not without sin,but if each of us tried a little harder to be supportive rather than lashing out, perhaps the atmosphere would be nicer here.

Just my opinion...dont know if others see things the same way since perception is an individual thing.

bw

rackmup
10-23-2002, 10:03 AM
I appreciate what you have said here but please know, the venomous ramblings of Mr. Price fail to cause me any pain. Those who know me also know NOTHING upsets me...ask OnePocketChamp or Eg8r...I am rarely without a smile on my face or a joke on my lips.

Mr. Price is simply one of those people who believes his opinion is the only opinion and any that differ, must be wrong.

I would rather go through life as I know it, laughing off adversity and enjoying my time here instead of leading the bitter existence of Mr. Price who's only responses to challenge are to make light of another's hardships or to "call them out":
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Jim Price:</font><hr>If you are going to the Derby City tournament, I will be playing and we can play some. Just come up and introduce yourself. We will just leave it at that.<hr></blockquote>

I'm sorry Mr. Price...did you say something?

Regards,

Ken

10-23-2002, 10:36 AM
I quietly took his insults and only after he would not stop did I answer in a way that he understands. He is in fact a pathetic loser. The fact that he may go through life with a smile on his face means he has accepted his situation. I never once choose to post to him until he decided I was to be his next victim. I am sure the truth hurts, but he will have to live with it. I offer no apologies.

eg8r
10-23-2002, 11:42 AM
Please make the clip, lol I like to watch them.

As far as the SPIRIT of the rule, the jump cue manufacturers are not perverting the rule. They are doing exactly what they are supposed to do. I think if you went and measured them and noticed on a very high percentage of the cues that they were shorting by maybe an 1/8 of an inch on the lower side of the tolerance, then maybe they would be perverting the rule.

I feel that if the governing bodies wanted to outlaw the cue, then they would say you could only use your playing cue the whole time (I guess minus the break shot).

Here is my summary (given the rules that are being used now)

Jump cues = good (very smart way to jump, able to spend more practice time on playing a stronger safety)

practiced skill = good (although I will add, WASTE of time if you are using it instead of a jump cue and you are not spending your practice time to learn to play a stronger safety)

eg8r
10-23-2002, 11:51 AM
He even doesn't mind it when I am on his team and I help our opponent to a win by pocketing last ball in opponents pocket.

eg8r

10-23-2002, 01:22 PM
This guy for no reason began insulting me, read his posts to me. He say stuff completely out of left field for no reason. He is some sort of psychotic that is obvious from all the stuff he posts on here. I know the guy is a nut just as everyone else here does. That is why they come to his defense because he is a helpless loser. I don't really care what he says, I am not his shrink, just don't say it to me. I guess he has become used to getting away with it.

10-23-2002, 01:36 PM
Are you so psychotic you don't even know what you say and how it is perceived? You are sicker then I first realized. Go back to you smiling brain dead life and I will continue my beautiful 25 year marriage and retired life of affluence. I smile every day also, but then I have good reason to.

Wally_in_Cincy
10-23-2002, 02:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Jim Price:</font><hr> Are you so psychotic you don't even know what you say and how it is perceived? You are sicker then I first realized. Go back to you smiling brain dead life and I will continue my beautiful 25 year marriage and retired life of affluence. I smile every day also, but then I have good reason to. <hr></blockquote>

Hey you two, take it outside /ccboard/images/icons/laugh.gif We don't want any blood on the Simonis.

Wally~~watching matter meeting anti-matter and yes I do realize it's none o' my bidness so peace and out,

Fred Agnir
10-23-2002, 02:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Jay M:</font><hr> I know that someone is going to throw out the argument that it's an advancement of the game and makes use of technology. That may be true, BUT it's not the cues themselves that rub the wrong way, it's the violation of the SPIRIT of the rules (any lawyers out there will be familiar with this concept<hr></blockquote>
I have no idea what the spirit of the rules are. That being said, I would like to point out for no particular reason that the introduction of the sand wedge (Salazar?) was a modification of an iron to make getting out of the sand easier. I think this might be the best analogy to the jump cue. Still takes a good amount of skill to master either.

I'm sure in every sport, there was a new tool added that at first brought purist outrage, be it wrestling boots to fiberglass polevaulting poles, swimming suits to athletic cups, hand chalk to graphite shafts, Quisinarts to Flow Bees.

My biggest problem with the jump cue is when people can't differentiate what the player is doing versus what the jump cue is doing. Let's all please admit that the jump cue makes jumping easier.

Fred &lt;~~~ has used his Bunjee three times in tournament play. Twice in the same match!

Fred Agnir
10-23-2002, 03:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: rackmup:</font><hr>
Have you ever used one?
By what method did you determine "but for the player it does not feel all that good." I'm assuming you conducted a poll or something. That must have been a lot of work.
You said "To be honest, their design of a butt as skinny as the shaft to keep the weight down is terrible." I question if you have ever really used one as the butt is a different diameter than the shaft.
Further, you said "They come with crooked shafts, bad finish and have an overall look of cheapness about them." Granted, if Neiman Marcus sold them, they might fit your "frilly" needs.
Sorry to keep pointing out your absurdity but, you said "If the cue is between 7 and 8 ounces and has a phenolic tip the ball will jump, probably equal to the Bungee." Are you looking for something made of balsa wood?
Quote: "...so they have the market for the cheap cues locked up." No sir...that would be a company called "Homemade Cues by Buford".
Again: "Most real cuemakers that build you a jump cue will make it longer and make the butt thicker for a better feel while keeping the weight down." JJ Cues makes a jump cue that is an exact knockoff of the Bunjee. Are you calling JJ Customs something other than a real cuemaker???
Your last inane quote: <hr></blockquote>

I can't resist. Speaking only of jump cues, the Bunjee is made cheaply. This is commonly admitted by the manufacturer. I've shot with more than a dozen Bunjees, and they all sound and feel terrible. Shoot with that Stealth jump cue, and there is a world of difference in solid feel.

Is JJ cues a real cuemaker? I wouldn't exactly put JJ cues anywhere near the top of the list, but I don't want to knock them either. I agree that a cuemaker worth his salt will make a much more solid cue than the Bunjee. The question is, does it matter to the end user. If it only matters that it jumps well, end users can forgive the looks and sound. That's what Instroke is banking on, I guess. OTOH, everyone should understand that you *can* play a full game with the Bunjee if you want. Then again, you can play with a broom stick if you want. I don't want.

Fred &lt;~~~ gives Bunjee a thumbs up , even if it's crooked, feels and sounds terrible.

rackmup
10-23-2002, 03:48 PM
...those who:


Say they know the martial arts are really talking about an oriental painter.
Those who brag about the size of their "manlihood" are really on the scale of a mosquito larva.

and those who feel the need to say something like:

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Jim Price:</font><hr>...25 year marriage and retired life of affluence.<hr></blockquote>

Are really single, lonely, ugly, fat and work the drive-thru at McDonalds.

Jim...you're new here. Many will tell you it is very difficult to win the battle of wits when you are so desperately unarmed.

Regards,

Ken (has JP thought about heading over to playpool.com or perhaps AZB?)

rackmup
10-23-2002, 03:50 PM
Wally,

I'm finished with him. You can only beat a man for so long while he is down before it turns into a felony assault charge.

Regards,

Ken (this JP will eventually leave and another will show up in his place)

10-23-2002, 04:01 PM
No, actually I owned a small chain of check cashing stores, If you consider 23 small, and dealt with broke dead beats like you every day. I guess I should thank God for guys like you, I made a good living retired at 48.

rackmup
10-23-2002, 05:59 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Jim Price aka Daddy Morebucks:</font><hr>No, actually I owned a small chain of check cashing stores, If you consider 23 small, and dealt with broke dead beats like you every day. I guess I should thank God for guys like you, I made a good living retired at 48.<hr></blockquote>

...or, criminals like you, that charge poor people (who, because of life's circumstances, cannot obtain a legitimate bank account), ridiculous interest fees, check cashing fees, etc., strictly in the name of profit and greed. Let me guess...you probably offered short term "payday" loans and vehicle title loans as well?

I'm quite certain that you are happy and in some way, justify what you did to people as being "okay".

With this little tidbit of information that you so graciously shared, we all now know the type of person you are and your complete lack of moral fiber.

It's been a pleasure debating the personalities of each other but you my friend, have just placed yourself into the same category of gamblers that don't pay their debts, ambulance chasing lawyers, con-artists and thieves.

I think this will end my conversations with you as will others on this board who hold themselves in a higher regard than (and this is your term) "losers" such as yourself.

Regards,

Ken (not rich but not broke and can face myself in the mirror each and every day)

Voodoo Daddy
10-23-2002, 06:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Jim Price:</font><hr> You know that, don't you sell the Omen cues on ebay? I could be wrong but I think it is you. They are brand new cues and the prices you sell them for is their market, regardless what they sell for elsewhere. <hr></blockquote>

8-n-out is a friend of mine...he helps sell OMEN cues like I do. I Hate to see OMEN cues linked to all this childish "he-said/she-said/my bankrolls fatter than yours/meet you at the Derby and play some" BS!!! I just hate it....

rackmup
10-23-2002, 06:28 PM
VooDoo,

FYI:

I'm finished being one-half of this childish banter. I made my point.

Regards and apologies,

Ken

10-23-2002, 06:57 PM
I don't deny the nature of the business but it provides a service. I can think of worse businesses such as Burger King and McDonolds who built their fortune on minimum wage child labor and still do. I built something and for ten years met a payroll for more then 100 people. People had jobs, raised families and paid their bill through what I created and nothing is more honorable. Only someone that has done it would understand.

rackmup
10-23-2002, 08:14 PM
There is no honor Sir, in taking advantage of the needy in order to further one's personal financial portfolio.

No matter how broad a paint brush you use, you cannot color this any other way. And be it 1 or 100 that you employed, it is still on the backs of the downtrodden that you and they made their money.

Psalm 36:1-4 perfectly describes the man that you are:

1 Transgression speaks to the wicked
deep in their hearts;
there is no fear of God
before their eyes.

2 For they flatter themselves in their own eyes
that their iniquity cannot be found out and hated.

3 The words of their mouths are mischief and deceit;
they have ceased to act wisely and do good.

4 They plot mischief while on their beds;
they are set on a way that is not good;
they do not reject evil.

Sorry if that sounds "preachy" but sometimes the answers we seek about certain people and events are right at our fingertips.

Regards,

Ken

10-23-2002, 08:44 PM
You have reached such a level of silliness I have no reply.

10-23-2002, 08:49 PM

10-23-2002, 09:00 PM
Ummm...dumbass..that was a reply. Maybe you could go back to the rock from which you used to live beneath.

The anonymous lurker.

bluewolf
10-24-2002, 04:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Jim Price:</font><hr> No, actually I owned a small chain of check cashing stores, If you consider 23 small, and dealt with broke dead beats like you every day. I guess I should thank God for guys like you, I made a good living retired at 48. <hr></blockquote>

are you calling all of us deadbeats or just ken. how would you know. you dont even know any of us.

also people on here use various tables,cues, jumps etc because those pieces of equipment resonated with them. attacking a particular piece of equipment wont win you any popularity contests.

you, jim , are new here. i have made more than my share of blunders when i came on ccb. and being human might make more.

btw, what did you mean when you said if someone claimed to know the martial art, they were talking about a painter. was that supposed to be humorous.

bw

10-24-2002, 08:47 AM
You need to get someone to read to you. You don't even know who said what.

10-24-2002, 11:39 AM
Your tag line is from R. Buckminster Fuller but you apparently don't hold his disciplines to close too your own heart:

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: R. Buckminster Fuller:</font><hr>Seek to accomplish whatever is to be attained in such a manner that the advantage attained would never be secured at the cost of another or others.<hr></blockquote>

I'm certain that isn't the premise on which you ran your sleazy check cashing/short-term loan business, is it?

Seriously...I don't know about the others but I for one would like to see you vanish.

I'm posting anonymously because I'm at work but I would share these views with you in person. Hint...we see each other at least once per month. I don't like you here anymore than I like you anyplace else.

10-24-2002, 01:06 PM
It is interesting how protective you all are of your friend Ken. Is there something I don't know? Is he handicapped or something? When you guys post to him it is always so condescending and patronizing, you guys talk to him like you are talking to a guy about to jump off a ledge, or to a child that needs reassurance they are worthy. He should be insulted the way he is treated by you guys. He is a grown man and does not need you to defend him. He takes responsibility for what he writes. I have a lot more respect for him then most of you so called friends of his. Beyond that, I won't even respond to the rest of your childish post. Get back to work and do what ever it is you get paid for.

eg8r
10-24-2002, 01:28 PM
OH Jimmy, can I be one of your friends. Maybe I can call Jimmy's folks to to see if he is in a good mood today and come play on the board.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>He takes responsibility for what he writes. I have a lot more respect for him then most of you so called friends of his.
<hr></blockquote>

If you have respect, then show it. Nobody is asking for anymore. He has offered to quit this thread, maybe we can get you to do the same.

Please close this thread.

eg8r

10-24-2002, 01:49 PM
What are you talking about, he has even injected my name into the titles of his posts and refers to me in other threads. The guy is a real jerk, at least on here. Maybe he is an OK guy in person, I don't know. Why do guys give this guy such a pass? I hold people accountable, even my friends. If you have any objectivity, you know it is all his doing. I don't really know what else to say, maybe he should just apologize to me. My guess is he is the type of guy that may, he knows he started it.

rackmup
10-24-2002, 01:58 PM
Mr. Price,

I apologize for bending your feelers.

Regards,

Ken

bluewolf
10-24-2002, 01:59 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Jim Price:</font><hr> You need to get someone to read to you. You don't even know who said what. <hr></blockquote>

LOL. not interesting in bantaring with you, jim

bw

10-24-2002, 02:10 PM
Accepted, now call off your friends. I think one guy wants to beat me up.

rackmup
10-24-2002, 02:18 PM
You're on your own their pal. I think I would be a little more concerned about the one that says he sees you at least once a month.

I've learned long ago that you must "sleep in the bed that you make".

You are the one that turned down the covers and crawled in. You took good hearted humor and turned your response into words of hatred (labeling someone gay and making light of one's divorce.) You couldn't accept the opinions of others without taking them as a personal insult. You felt it necessary to brag about being retired and of all your vast wealth and labeling the rest of us "losers".

Your biggest problem isn't the people on this board or their thoughts of you. Your biggest problem is the person that is connected to the hands that typed the venomous messages you posted here.

I apologize for hurting your feelings but not for having an opinion.

ceebee
10-24-2002, 02:36 PM
I like a 2-Piece Break Cue With a Triangle TIP. I have a Predator BK &amp; a Huebler AS-H4 (with a BRASS INSERT, I discarded the nylon insert) that I use for Breaking. My Custom Jump Cue is 44 inches long &amp; has a phenolic tip (BCA Approved). I like the extra length JUMP CUE over the Bungee or Lucasi JUMP CUEs. The hard tip on my JUMP CUE is not suitable for the Break Shot.

Fred Agnir
10-24-2002, 02:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: ceebee:</font><hr> I like the extra length JUMP CUE over the Bungee or Lucasi JUMP CUEs. <hr></blockquote>
FWIW, the Bunjee has an optional extender that fits between the butt and shaft. It makes the standard jacked-up jump shot easier. I've also used the dart stroke with the extension in, and it didn't seem to have any detrimental effect.

Fred

rackmup
10-24-2002, 02:56 PM
Fred...

Is that what the extension is for...the closer shots? I had an extension made for my Meucci JC, thinking it would improve the longer shots.

Eg8r has one of those extensions for his Bunjee but he says it's for getting to those hard-to-reach spots on his back when he uses it as a back-scratcher (I knew he was lying.)

OnePocketChamp wants a jump cue as well because he thinks they "look cool leaning against your case". What's he know? Snobby one-pocket player.

Learning something new every single day.

Regards,

Ken

10-24-2002, 05:28 PM
I accept your apology. It was a bit ambiguous but an apology all the same.

Fred Agnir
10-25-2002, 07:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: rackmup:</font><hr> Fred...

Is that what the extension is for...the closer shots? <hr></blockquote>
Sorry for the confusion. No, the extension is for those that feel more comfortable with a longer jump cue using the overhand method (what I called "standard jacked-up"). The longer jump shots become easier to control with the extension in. Not that I have any semblence of "control" using my jump cue (almost never).

Fred