PDA

View Full Version : Post deleted by ccboard_admin



10-22-2002, 06:57 AM

=k=
10-22-2002, 07:14 AM
ww if that were allowed (fair mho) i would say no coaching on placement.. or maybe have them remove 3 or four balls? also no coaching on which balls to remove. K

Rich R.
10-22-2002, 07:57 AM
In my opinion, if a team captain plays an SL-2 vs. an SL-7, the captain is just dumping that match. Why prolong the agony by changing the rules. The only way that a true SL-2, will win is if the SL-7 gets very careless and either puts the 8 in early or scratches when they shoot the 8. A captain interested in good competition would play no lower than an SL-5 against an SL-7, if at all possible.
Rich R.~~~prefers closer match ups.

Perk
10-22-2002, 08:21 AM
Definatly agree with rich...No way should a 2 be playing a 7..especially when you got a choice about it. Its really a no win for either team. The 7 should beat one of the better players on the team,,,and the team with the 2 should use that player against a low rated person, in hopes that they will win.

Ross
10-22-2002, 08:37 AM
The problem with matching up two low ranked players, like two 2's, is that the matches often take forever. With the handicapping, a 5 vs. 2 or a 4 vs. 2 is fair, and makes for a better match, IMO.

Perk
10-22-2002, 08:49 AM
The key shouldnt be time...What is going to make the lower ranked players get better? Watching their opponent runout ( a 5 should, might miss once)? Or playing a complete game against someone around their level? Dont get me wrong, the only way to improve is to play people higher than yourself, but not that drastic. They can watch the higher matches to learn if watching a runout is gonna help. I still think that they should play around equal.

To me, it sounds like "hey, lets trade off half our win/losses for the uneven matches, and we can battle for the rest of the points". I think it should be even, then the team that shoots better will win the most games. Handicaps are made to bring everyone into the game, and an extreme mismatch wont do that. It would be like a 120 bowler with a 70 pin handicap against a 192 bowler with 7 pins...who is gonna win that game?

Wally_in_Cincy
10-22-2002, 08:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: whitewolf:</font><hr> I am thinking about proposing the following to the APA:

When a seven plays a two in 8-ball in APA, I think it would add excitement and fairness to the game if the two got two free balls in hand per game.

Do you think that this would dilute [modify excessively]the game of 8-ball and/or do you think this would add some flair to this mismatch?

Opinions please.

WW <hr></blockquote>

APA's got enough rules already. Don't need no more. Too confusing. Just play pool.

Jay M
10-22-2002, 08:58 AM
Unfortunately it is a common strategy here in the tampa bay area to use the 2's as sacrificial goats. The team captains feel that it's better to let a 2 or 3 lose to a strong 7 than to put up one of their better players and take a chance of "using up" a player that can win against others.

I don't play APA (or BCA) any more because of two factors:
1) I never get to play a close match, I'm always up against the other team's designated sacrifice.
2) I can't stand the delay between matches. To sit around for four to five hours waiting to play a total of 6 matches drives me nuts.

In tournaments, at least I can go wander the town or relax in the hotel room in between matches.

Jay M

Rich R.
10-22-2002, 09:12 AM
I understand the logic Jay, I just don't agree with it. It is no fun for a SL-2 to rack 7 times and only get to the table a couple of times, usually to kick out of a safety. It does not help keep the interest of the SL-2, nor the 7. Both will be inclined to quit the league, as you have.
I guess I would rather have good close competition and let the winning go to the better player, that day.
Rich R.

Jay M
10-22-2002, 10:44 AM
Just out of curiosity, does the APA still have that rule that says something along the lines of "If you have cashed for more than the entry fee in a tournament with a $250.00 or higher entry within the last two years, you are not eligible to play in APA events"?

Jay M&lt;~~~~ got dropped from a team after a tournament win in 1994

rackmup
10-22-2002, 10:54 AM
...the 7 has to shoot all of his/her shots through a windmill or a clown's mouth. The 2 can have ball in hand on two shots, sneak up behind the 7 and grab his/her cue while he/she is down on a shot once per game and after pocketing all of his/her balls, the 2 can have BIH on the 8-ball and not have to designate a pocket.

The APA already has enough silly rules without adding more. The goal of the 2 (or any player for that matter) should be to improve their game and get "promoted" to a higher skill level and not to receive so many concessions that improvement isn't in their game plan.

Imagine the player that is new to the APA who knowingly plays to a higher skill level yet takes advantage of the rule that allows him/her to play as a 2 or 3. Now he/she gets BIH on two shots to boot? Sandbagging refined once again.

I just spoke with OnePocketChamp regarding a team in his APA league that did this very thing. The entire roster is new to APA league competition and playing at the lower skill levels rather than being an honest competitor and coming in at a more realistic rating. How proud can a team be when they sandbag their way to victory. "Chumps" is a term that comes to mind that should be engraved on any award they might win.

Just my biased, cynical, grumpy opinion.

Regards,

Ken (cannot believe he is actually looking for an APA team that needs a player)

Rich R.
10-22-2002, 12:14 PM
I have never heard of that rule Jay. Although it would not apply to me, I know of a number of APA players, all SL-7's, that play and cash in local tournaments. At least two APA players, that I know of, played in the recent U.S. Open. I checked the payouts on AZB and one of them was into the cash for $1K. Also, both may have been sponsored, for the Open, by the local APA operator. My guess would be that there is no such rule.
Rich R.

Michelle
10-22-2002, 12:49 PM
As far as I am concerned, the APA rules are already set up to give each player a chance to win, no matter what SL is playing. In a 7-2 race, a 2 definately has a chance to put in a couple balls, accidentally block up a 7's pockets enough to maybe, just maybe get a lucky 8-ball shot, and then have the 7 maybe scratch on the 8 once...I am a SL4 and play SL 7's often, knowing that I can probably win one and maybe get lucky one. I don't think the SL 2's need any extra help...

rackmup
10-22-2002, 02:01 PM
Page 40/Rule 32 of the Team Handbook doesn't give monetary specifics but does reserve the right to disqualify a player if they are a recognized professional and/or:


A touring member of a professional pool players association.
A winner of tour points.
A nationally known money player.
Or otherwise being recognized as a billiards professional, celebrity or entertainer.
Someone who gives lessons or performs billiards exhibitions can be deemed ineligible for APA play.
Someone who is recognized as a billiards room manager/assistant manager can be viewed as a housepro and be disqualified as well.
Entering a professional tournament jeopardizes an APA member's amateur status.

So there you have it.

Regards,

Ken

10-22-2002, 06:16 PM
I liked the handicap format that was used for eight ball at Amsterdam Billiards. The weaker player was spotted some number of balls, depending on the handicap. If the player was getting two balls, then when they ran out to their last three balls, or when they came to the table with three or less of their balls on the table, they had the choice to remove up to two of their balls from the table. They could make that decision only once.

I liked the format because novices learnt that it wasn't necessarily an advantage simply to remove or pocket balls. Also, the stronger player could force the weaker player into giving up the handicap, so it added more strategic options to the game.

IMO, a gift of one or more balls-in-hand just destroys the game. The overall goal of a handicap system should be to create a competitive situation that helps both players to stretch themselves.

KaromKlutz (forgot to login, doh!)

stickman
10-22-2002, 08:01 PM
Putting a SL2 against a SL7 is a little drastic, but personally, I'd rather play a higher skill level rather than a lower skilled player. I've lost more games against a lower skill level player than a higher one. I don't think there needs to be any changes in the equalizer system. I've never ran across a sandbagging SL7. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

10-22-2002, 08:30 PM
WW:

While this would somewhat even up this mismatch you mention, I think it would be too disruptive of the character of the game, and still yet not be enough to make the difference, normally, unless it was late in the game, with a ball and/or a hanger left.

A 2 isn't going to get out on more than a couple ball out, so this would only help them win if they kept their ball in hand in reserve until the end of the game, when maybe the 7 is ducking and leaving you safe on your last balls or the eight. It would be a travesty if the 2 gets a get out of jail card at the end, and is able to turn what even for a 7 mght usually be a lost game (if the safety was good enough) into a 1 foot straight in shot.

phil in sofla

Rich R.
10-23-2002, 08:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: rackmup:</font><hr> Page 40/Rule 32 of the Team Handbook doesn't give monetary specifics but does reserve the right to disqualify a player if they are a recognized professional and/or:


A touring member of a professional pool players association.
A winner of tour points.
A nationally known money player.
Or otherwise being recognized as a billiards professional, celebrity or entertainer.
Someone who gives lessons or performs billiards exhibitions can be deemed ineligible for APA play.
Someone who is recognized as a billiards room manager/assistant manager can be viewed as a housepro and be disqualified as well.
Entering a professional tournament jeopardizes an APA member's amateur status.

So there you have it.

Regards,

Ken



<hr></blockquote>
Thanks for searching for this Ken.
By the wording, it appears that it is all up to the discression of the local APA league operator.
Rich R.