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View Full Version : Ignorance is Bliss (pool related)



Jay M
10-23-2002, 08:16 AM
You know, when I was learning the game and had just started taking it somewhat seriously, there were a LOT of shots that I made where I just didn't understand the difficulty of the shot. I would look at it and "see" something, step up and execute it. This was before I learned any advanced safety play and I was too aggressive, often counting on my opponent missing rather than keeping control of the table.

An example of what I am talking about is this:

START(
%Ee8H6%HC7H6%KE2H8%Pq3G9%UG6X0%VD3K4%Wr9D0%XE2H8%_ F8I8%`e8G3
%aq6G9
)END

This was made on a coin-op 9 footer in a bar. I didn't bother positioning the other balls, but there wasn't a good one-rail kick to the 11. When I was looking at the table, the shot just seemed to jump out at me. This was bar pool so I called "I'm going to jump the 5, hit the 11, which will be double kissed by the 8 and then go into the pocket here". Then I stepped up to the table and executed it flawlessly, even getting perfect shape on the 8.

Now, looking back, there is no way in hell I'd attempt that shot. It's about the lowest percentage shot I've ever made (deliberately).

My thought is that when we don't know enough to be afraid, we are very dangerous. For me, it's harder to play a mid-level player than it is to play a champion. Case in point. yesterday I lost to a local C player and then won against a very highly respected pro.

Why? Because with a champion, you know exactly what they are going to do most of the time and your play style is geared towards taking advantage of their knowledge of the odds. The mid-level player routinely pulls off spectacular shots and then misses the straight in ball later in the rack (usually right after the spectacular one). It's the unpredictability of the mid-level player's game that makes it so dangerous.

Thoughts?

Jay M

Edited for spelling

PQQLK9
10-23-2002, 08:45 AM
Very well said Jay...I'm speaking as a mid-level player at best, you are absolutely correct. I am just beginning to think safe instead going for the low percentage shot. Allen Hopkins often says that amateurs are unpredictable. But it's true in most sports that a rag-tag opponent can make a seasoned veteran look bad (basketball, boxing etc).

SPetty
10-23-2002, 08:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Jay M:</font><hr> My thought is that when we don't know enough to be afraid, we are very dangerous. <hr></blockquote>Hi Jay,

I had a very similar thought to this one just recently. Not in shotmaking like you describe, but with regard to tournaments. When I played in my very first pool tournament ever, I didn't know you were supposed to be scared and nervous. (I learned that much later, only after coming here to CCB!). I thought the tournament was just to see who was the best player that day - that's nothing to be scared about.

It was the end of the league tournament and I won first place. I was the new person so they didn't know me and I didn't know them, but by the time I had won a few matches, I guess that made them even more nervous!

Oh, for the good old days of ignorance!

Wally_in_Cincy
10-23-2002, 09:35 AM
I see this ALL the time with new players to the APA league. They join just to have fun and win consistently. Then they start to get serious about the game and go totally to hell. LOL

CarolNYC
10-23-2002, 02:59 PM
Hey Jay,
Its funny you brought this up-I watched a player vs.pro-the player was a SHOT-MAKER-totally unpredictable and no matter where the cueball landed, she was able to pocket the next object ball-and then she missed a straight in shot-its just like you stated-and your right-very dangerous!:)
Carol~never underestimates ANYONE!

10-23-2002, 03:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Jay M:</font><hr> You know, when I was learning the game and had just started taking it somewhat seriously, there were a LOT of shots that I made where I just didn't understand the difficulty of the shot. I would look at it and "see" something, step up and execute it. This was before I learned any advanced safety play and I was too aggressive, often counting on my opponent missing rather than keeping control of the table.

An example of what I am talking about is this:

START(
%Ee8H6%HC7H6%KE2H8%Pq3G9%UG6X0%VD3K4%Wr9D0%XE2H8%_ F8I8%`e8G3
%aq6G9
)END

This was made on a coin-op 9 footer in a bar. I didn't bother positioning the other balls, but there wasn't a good one-rail kick to the 11. When I was looking at the table, the shot just seemed to jump out at me. This was bar pool so I called "I'm going to jump the 5, hit the 11, which will be double kissed by the 8 and then go into the pocket here". Then I stepped up to the table and executed it flawlessly, even getting perfect shape on the 8.

Now, looking back, there is no way in hell I'd attempt that shot. It's about the lowest percentage shot I've ever made (deliberately).

My thought is that when we don't know enough to be afraid, we are very dangerous. For me, it's harder to play a mid-level player than it is to play a champion. Case in point. yesterday I lost to a local C player and then won against a very highly respected pro.

Why? Because with a champion, you know exactly what they are going to do most of the time and your play style is geared towards taking advantage of their knowledge of the odds. The mid-level player routinely pulls off spectacular shots and then misses the straight in ball later in the rack (usually right after the spectacular one). It's the unpredictability of the mid-level player's game that makes it so dangerous.

Thoughts?

Jay M

Edited for spelling <hr></blockquote>


I know.. there is a quote from a long time ago that says something like "It is not the best sword fighter in the land that I am afraid, it is the worst one that I fear."

For the same reason, when you learn high percentage plays, and also when you play on a good team, certain things are "expected" of you, whereas the C player or whatever has nothing to lose, and doesn't care..

Last night in league a guy made this shot on me:

START(
%EW6W0%HY8O4%PW9Y3%WD4T8%XV9Y1%YX1P0%ZC5S9%[r0D6%\[0O2

)END

And the guy isn't very good.. I should have won WAY before this point, but he kept getting lucky and leaving me behind everything with no real shot, so I kept playing safe, and he made two bank shots, and then kicked the 8-ball in.. and these banks wouldn't have gone in if it wasn't for the horrendous table roll! /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

10-23-2002, 03:38 PM
It is amazing how good some young players can play without even knowing it. I used to run around with a guy named Steve Gumpfries (sp). Steve was a top notch player and it took a champion to beat him. You would not believe how many kids we would run into that would get us stuck with some of the most amazing mindless play. They usually come back to reality at some point and often go into a downward spiral, but they play like they have no respect for the difficulty of the game at all. I think responsibility puts an end to the mindless play when they get a little older. I always wondered if when someone freewheels, is that they way they could really play all the time if they could just control it. Because it is proven they can play that speed, they just can't do it on purpose. I think one of the differences between a player like Earl and some other players is, he will let it happen without fear.

10-23-2002, 10:31 PM
Hi Jim,
i think u are referring to Steve Gumphrey (Gump) from madison,TN area. i ran into him in the early 80's. Damn good action player. Tough bank player too.
Rest in peace Steve.-

no teeth joe

Karatemom
10-23-2002, 11:04 PM
This was done at a tourney just the other night. There were a couple of players, one was rated a 3 and the other a 4, who knocked others rated 5 &amp; up right out of the tournament. The 4 ended up winning the tournament. Not because he should be rated higher than he is, but because he has no fear of his opponents or the table. It doesn't matter to him where the cb lands, he just shoots. It sometimes amazes me the shots that he takes, and even makes! I think, there's no 4 that should know that shot.

IMO, having no fear is great, but it doesn't last forever. He'll eventually learn that, he's still pretty young. Once he improves enough to become a 6 or 7, he'll start fearing what he once was.

I consider myself a C player, and I hate playing him. You're right when you say they are unpredictable. You don't see what he sees, and chances are, if he doesn't make it, he'll leave you safe /ccboard/images/icons/laugh.gif.

JMHO,

Heide

10-23-2002, 11:22 PM
Yea, I could not remember the spelling of his name. He has been dead for about 15 years. He was cocky and some people did not like him. I often staked him. I am going back like 25 years. We made some good scores, he could really play.

eg8r
10-24-2002, 03:31 PM
I think it is awful that we now have to add <blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>(pool related)<hr></blockquote> to the subject line of a thread in a pool related forum.

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
10-29-2002, 12:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Jay M:</font><hr> You know, when I was learning the game and had just started taking it somewhat seriously, there were a LOT of shots that I made where I just didn't understand the difficulty of the shot. I would look at it and "see" something, step up and execute it<hr></blockquote>

This is purported to be a quote from Efren Reyes:


"I watched all the good players and the weak players, too. I learned the simple shots from the good players. English, draw, follow, how to put the cue ball in position. The good players don't know the invisible shots. A lot of times the weak players make these impossible shots. I learned a lot of trick shots from watching bad players."