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Karatemom
10-24-2002, 08:44 PM
I feel like if I were to be able to control the rock a little better, my game would improve immensely. Are there any drills you do to aid in this? Or does it just come with time and practice? My game has improved so much in the last 2 months, that I do not want it to become stagnant. Also, are there any drills that you do for kicks? The bank shots I can usually see, but, for some reason, I see kicks differently; actually, I can't see them /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif. Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I will have plenty of time to practice this weekend. We have parent-teacher conferences so I got off of work early today and don't have to go back til Monday /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif!

Thanks in advance!!

Heide

Barbara
10-24-2002, 09:04 PM
Heide,

Joe Tucker has 3 complete sets of 2/3/4 rail position drills in his practice drill booklet, "Guaranteed Improvement". You score yourself on making the target area (a size of a piece of paper) and can make that area smaller and smaller until you get down to a cocktail napkin size. But let's not go there until you start making the first set of drills! It's tough and takes self discipline to keep doing it.

I've just checked and www.hillhill.com (http://www.hillhill.com) is not available anymore, but Joe T lurks here from time to time and may pick up on this post and reply where you can send for a copy. It's got other great drills in there, too, and I'll even challenge your hubby to do one, to boot. The one I see is a toughy.

I hope Joe T checks in, it's a great book to have. And now that the boat's out of the water and my MAJOR deadline at work passes tomorrow, I'll be reacquainting myself with this book. And my cue...

Barbara~~~hellooooo cue.... did you miss me? 'cause I missed you!!

Karatemom
10-24-2002, 09:16 PM
Thanks Barbara. I'll keep an eye out. Socrates here on the board has a book out as well that has some drills in it concerning speed and control, too. I've got that one, but looking for others to work on as well.

Heide

Rod
10-25-2002, 04:44 AM
Quote,I feel like if I were to be able to control the rock a little better, my game would improve immensely. Are there any drills you do to aid in this? Or does it just come with time and practice? snip

Heide, Speed of stroke. lol There are plenty of speed drills on other web sites, don't ask me where someone else can chime in. Set up your own drills or ask the old man. Leaving yourself on the correct side of the o/b makes life easier. I used the wei, cut in the one ball leaving an easy angle to the o/b so you can play position on the 9 with a little low left. Don't forget if the o/balls are on the other side the position is still good. Then play position so you can follow the o/balls to the 9 using point A or B as a reference point to hit the rail with follow or draw. From the angle on the 1 you can just play speed to each diamond down the center of the table if you prefer. Mark the 1 and c/b position so this angle remains consistant. Then move the one ball up 1 balls width after each session to where the 11,13 and 10 are for reference. You'll learn how the c/b speed is effected depending on the one ball location and the speed of stroke with english to play position on each. BTW those balls are there just for reference, you'll only have the one and one o/b to play position on. I can't count the amount of times I've seen players not get out with 3 balls from varaitions of these positions. As a drill play these balls to the near corner, don't shoot any to the far corners. START(
%Aq8N8%Bm4G0%Cg5F8%Dg7W5%Gm2W6%ID2O9%Jm8N7%Kp5N8%M o1N8%Pl8S6
%QJ5Y9%RJ2C4%Wf2G9%Xa4M3%Yl6H4%Zi9N4%eB2a6
)END

You can invent any drills with a little imagination. Shoot the one in the corner, at letter A you have good position on the 2,9,8,4,3,and 7. Letter B is good for the 9, 4, 7 and 2 if you like. Letter C is good position for the 3, 6, 7, 5, 9 and 8 to the side. Area position works very well, as speed gets better you want to fine tune to the correct side of the o/b or angles you prefer. START(
%An1F8%B[6H6%CJ8W4%DO6W3%EV3G3%FL5Q3%GM2J9%HU5W6%IY2G8%Pg3F 7
%QZ5T1%RU3P5%SQ4M3%W]2U8%Xd3[1%Ye6Z6%Zs0K9%]r5K0%^m5H0
)END

This is just a couple of ideas, you can taylor drills towards your weak points.

Karatemom
10-25-2002, 05:37 AM
Thanks Rod. I could ask Chris, but he hasn't been helping me lately. He's been busy with tournaments and his own game. Besides, I believe my progress in this game has come not just from Chris but also from the people here.

I know I could set up any shot and practice speed and control, was just wondering if there was something in particular that helped control it more precisely. Thanks for the tips.

Heide

bluewolf
10-25-2002, 05:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Karatemom:</font><hr> I feel like if I were to be able to control the rock a little better, my game would improve immensely. Are there any drills you do to aid in this? Or does it just come with time and practice? My game has improved so much in the last 2 months, that I do not want it to become stagnant. Also, are there any drills that you do for kicks? The bank shots I can usually see, but, for some reason, I see kicks differently; actually, I can't see them /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif. Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I will have plenty of time to practice this weekend. We have parent-teacher conferences so I got off of work early today and don't have to go back til Monday /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif!

Thanks in advance!!

Heide <hr></blockquote>

heide, are you talking about controlling the speed of your cue ball for shots and safeties or are you talking about english and how it will act on the rail for position on the next shot.

scott lee taught us 4 basic cb speeds, then i learned somemore at randy g's pool which were even slower speed for delicate shots or safety. this is one thing i do well. my sink percentage is still low though, but not giving up.

as for kicks, i saw kicks and was doing very simple ones in the very beginning. i am just getting the hang of basic bank shots.if you are not seeing them, i would suggest setting up easy ones on purpose. also i think grady made an accustat tape on kicks, which will be my next purchase.

kicks are so much fun, i think you will really like them.

Laura

Karatemom
10-25-2002, 05:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: bluewolf:</font><hr> heide, are you talking about controlling the speed of your cue ball for shots and safeties or are you talking about english and how it will act on the rail for position on the next shot.

Laura <hr></blockquote>

Speed and control. I got the english thing down, and I can get the cb in the general vicinity. My problem is that usually I've stroked it too hard or not hard enough for position. I'm making this game harder than it really it needs to be by not getting the cb to the spot I need. Just looking for anything that'll help.

Thanks,

Heide

Jay M
10-25-2002, 06:43 AM
It's common for people to make the game harder than it is. Most players up to, and including, A players try to move the cue around the table to get perfect leaves. Ray Martin calls it "perfect pool". Trying to place the cue in an exact spot or area on the table is a mistake. When you are choosing your english and speed, pick a line where you aren't going to be taking a chance on bumping a ball or scratching. Look for an open lane that will give you the best chance to make the shot and get a leave. I have a really good explanation of this concept, along with illustrations, that was written by Ray Martin.

By the way, for those that remember the lesson series I was working on with Ray, this was one of the key concepts for the first lesson.

Jay M

10-25-2002, 07:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Karatemom:</font><hr> I feel like if I were to be able to control the rock a little better, my game would improve immensely. Are there any drills you do to aid in this? Or does it just come with time and practice? My game has improved so much in the last 2 months, that I do not want it to become stagnant. Also, are there any drills that you do for kicks? The bank shots I can usually see, but, for some reason, I see kicks differently; actually, I can't see them /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif. Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I will have plenty of time to practice this weekend. We have parent-teacher conferences so I got off of work early today and don't have to go back til Monday /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif!

Thanks in advance!!

Heide <hr></blockquote>

In all honesty, I think cueball control takes time and practice. Alot of drills can get you good at certain things, but in a game, you need to be able to do what you want to do, when you need to do it. There is no drill for the "unseen" situation, so what I've done in my practice regimine that has worked greatly, is to just practice potting balls at all and every angle.. for at least 30 to 45 minutes, then take 15 minutes and shoot nothing but extremely difficult shots..

Rail shots, over a ball shots, long shots, thin cut shots, banks, caroms, tiki shots.. whatever. Turn your weaknesses into your strengths.

If you want a drill that will definatly improve your short roll postion, and help you get good angles as well as get you good at making almost strait-in shots consistently is the no-rail drill. Spread all 15 out on the table 6" from any other balls or rails, and run them without the cueball touching a rail. Do this 3 times in a row and you have pretty good cueball control.. not to mention it's a great drill to get you in stroke.

The next thing I'd recommend is playing bowlliards, or do the Q-skill test. Bowlliards is a great game for learning cueball control because to get a "strike" sometimes you have to break out clusters, or fall on them just right.. and you have to wing the cueball around the table a little bit sometimes.

When you really start getting good, practice playing 8-ball, but instead of breaking, just spread the balls out evenly without any clusters, and run the stripes or solids and the 8 last, like in a normal game.. and see how many times you can run out.. give yourself a race to 5 against the ghost. If you run out, you win the game, and if you don't, the ghost wins.

All these things, plus a half hour of just hitting in balls will help your stroke, and with a good stroke, position play is alot easier.

Fred Agnir
10-25-2002, 07:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Karatemom:</font><hr>I feel like if I were to be able to control the rock a little better, my game would improve immensely.<hr></blockquote>

I think if everybody at any level were able to control the rock a little better...

One thing that can help basic cueball control adding "line position" play. The simplest visual instruction is from Byrne's Standard Video 1 or 2 (can't remember which).

Fred

Karatemom
10-25-2002, 10:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Fred Agnir:</font><hr>
I think if everybody at any level were able to control the rock a little better...

One thing that can help basic cueball control adding "line position" play. The simplest visual instruction is from Byrne's Standard Video 1 or 2 (can't remember which).

Fred <hr></blockquote>

Our local library may have those videos. What's your opinion on Target Pool?

Heide ~ Fred always comes through for me

Karatemom
10-25-2002, 10:28 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Seattle-kid:</font><hr>
In all honesty, I think cueball control takes time and practice. Alot of drills can get you good at certain things, but in a game, you need to be able to do what you want to do, when you need to do it. There is no drill for the "unseen" situation, so what I've done in my practice regimine that has worked greatly, is to just practice potting balls at all and every angle.. for at least 30 to 45 minutes, then take 15 minutes and shoot nothing but extremely difficult shots..

Rail shots, over a ball shots, long shots, thin cut shots, banks, caroms, tiki shots.. whatever. Turn your weaknesses into your strengths.

Tiki shots? <hr></blockquote>If you want a drill that will definatly improve your short roll postion, and help you get good angles as well as get you good at making almost strait-in shots consistently is the no-rail drill. Spread all 15 out on the table 6" from any other balls or rails, and run them without the cueball touching a rail. Do this 3 times in a row and you have pretty good cueball control.. not to mention it's a great drill to get you in stroke.

That is one I will try. To warm up, I will throw the balls out and just hit them, didn't think about no rails.<hr></blockquote>The next thing I'd recommend is playing bowlliards, or do the Q-skill test. Bowlliards is a great game for learning cueball control because to get a "strike" sometimes you have to break out clusters, or fall on them just right.. and you have to wing the cueball around the table a little bit sometimes.

I play QSkill alot. My score has gone from 299 to 576 in a month. I haven't tried it now for a couple of weeks. I'll give it a couple more before I try it again.
<hr></blockquote>When you really start getting good, practice playing 8-ball, but instead of breaking, just spread the balls out evenly without any clusters, and run the stripes or solids and the 8 last, like in a normal game.. and see how many times you can run out.. give yourself a race to 5 against the ghost. If you run out, you win the game, and if you don't, the ghost wins.

That is how I practice 8 ball. I'll run out, or try to, either stripes or solids, and then do the last 7. I joined an 8 ball league to help my game. I would never play 8 ball before, but now, I notice how 8 and 9 ball compliment the other's game. Usually, the ghost wins, but I keep coming back for more /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif.<hr></blockquote>All these things, plus a half hour of just hitting in balls will help your stroke, and with a good stroke, position play is alot easier. <hr></blockquote>

Thaks for your thoughts. I appreciate it!!

Heide

socrates
10-25-2002, 10:35 AM
Morning Heide:

I often tell students that speed is the final frontier in this game. Others have referred you to sources of speed control drills and also made good points about playing the correct line and use of targets. What I would like to add is the following suggestion.

When practicing speed control drills there is no substitute for putting an actual target (8&amp;/12 X 11 or other size sheet of light construction paper or looseleaf paper) on the table as a target.

After doing so I believe it is important to hold yourself to a high standard. By that I mean if the rock doesn't stop ON the target it does not count. Yes, you can and many times should play for a zone position in actual play. However, when practicing do not accept close. Hold yourself to a high standard and stay after it.

Good luck.

Fred Agnir
10-25-2002, 10:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Karatemom:</font><hr> What's your opinion on Target Pool?

Heide ~ Fred always comes through for me <hr></blockquote>
Here's a case where I'll give an opinion of something that I don't have first hand information. I think Target Pool is one of the best ideas out there. It gives real world patterns that come up over and over again in games that without umpteen years of experience you won't see until it's game time.

I watch some of my teammates blow relatively easy position simply because they've never had any reason to shoot certain pattern positions. Target pool covers many of these patterns.

Another one to try is Bert Kinister's 60-minute workout. The basic concepts and patterns in this video probably cuts out 1000 or more hours of rote learning. And that might be an underestimate.

Fred &lt;~~~ thinks today's media age gives learning players a *huge* advantage

Rod
10-25-2002, 11:17 AM
Fred,
I don't have any idea of Kinister's tape, I've never seen it. I do agree with your opinion on target pool. There are , as I recall 10 shots starting from a beginners level. I believe there are 4 different levels so one can start at the begining and jump a level as you improve. As socrates mentioned, nothing like a target to improve speed control. With target pool you can hit the target and receive different scores based on how close to the center the c/b stops. The times I played it was on a tripple shimmed Gandy playing the pro level version, pretty tough. Here is the shot that always gave me fits. START(
%AN7E3%PZ6N2%Q^1Z4%WC6O0%XG3[2%Y^7Z9%ZK8C9%]J5D4%^D1N3%eC3`6
%_H1Z5%`N2O0%aO6E0
)END

I made it several times, but then if you shoot it enough it gets a little easier, or not. lol

Chris Cass
10-25-2002, 11:44 AM
Hi Rod,

As Heide said, I've been alittle busy trying to get in gear for the Derby and playing these tour stops. Today, I'm on my way to Beloit, Wisc. for an event out there.

While, I was at my last event at Shooters in Olathe, Ks. I saw the only Target Pool game I could find for her. I bought it. They stopped making them by the way. I know the drills to help her with speed control but they can be rather tiring for some.

My idea is for her to use this Target Pool for a way to track and hold interest in practicing these drills. The only problem with practicing that many have is, keeping their interest up. I have no problem, but most get tired quickly. If it's goal orientated it's alot easier. IMO I'm sure you'll agree Rod.

Anyway, I used the Target Pool a few times at the PH when It was dead in there, from behind the counter. It's been taken so I didn't have access for it for her. I found the game to teach you, touch. Speed control is crucial(sp) sometimes and teaching it is imposible. The way I find the best is to let the beginner learn through drills and as I agree with everyone here, practice makes perfect. It's hard for most of the better players here to remember what it felt like in the beginning, when we started Rod. I truely appreciate the help everyone has given Heide. It means alot to me and especially her. Thanks everyone.

Best regards,

C.C.~~off to Beloit....

Rod
10-25-2002, 12:52 PM
Good luck in Beloit Chris.
I do agree with what you said especially the goal oriented part. We need to set goals so progress can be tracked, what ever the method of keeping the score.

Yes it is hard to remember the begining and sometimes I forget that. It is difficult at times because of the internet and I or we don't always know a persons limitations because it is not in person. I just figure it this way; I have a basic idea so I'll just throw out some examples. Then one can choose how far they want to go with those based on their ability. It's kind of futile for anyone to practice something over their head as it just leads to frustration. On the other hand making it too easy is not enough of a challenge to keep ones interest. Heide or anyone just pick and choose what you believe is best for your game. There is lots of good advice and no one specific way of improving other than good solid basics. If the challenge or shots are to difficult and it throws off your basics, then choose an easier method. Know your limitations and work within them towards a new goal.

bluewolf
10-25-2002, 04:12 PM
Heide,

I practice the following.

just with the cb,shoot at the end center diamond to make it go 2 rails, 3 rails, 4 rails, then one half rail, 1/4 rail etc till i can put it in an inch of where i want it. i dont have it down to perfection 100%,just something i practice at least twice a week.

once upon a time, when i can finally pocket balls with regularity, i figure this will come in handy.

bw

nmshooter
10-27-2002, 06:31 AM
The pool workout video from Burt Kinister (Sp?) has some good training techniques for control. I like his videos, they arent high tech but they are very well done. I think its called "The 60 minute pool workout" or something like that. I dont have the tape handy as its still in storage with the rest of my stuff in another state. Maybe someone else can confirm.

Karatemom
10-27-2002, 07:34 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: nmshooter:</font><hr> The pool workout video from Burt Kinister (Sp?) has some good training techniques for control. I like his videos, they arent high tech but they are very well done. I think its called "The 60 minute pool workout" or something like that. I dont have the tape handy as its still in storage with the rest of my stuff in another state. Maybe someone else can confirm. <hr></blockquote>

I don't have access to that particular video at the moment. However, should I run across it, I will look at it and try to apply some of those things at the ph. A friend had sent me some Jimmy Reid tapes a while back and I watched those quite a few times and picked up a lot from just watching.

Thanks for your help.

Heide

Karatemom
10-27-2002, 07:39 PM
Hi ya Steve. Sorry it took so long to get back to you. Went with Chris up to Beloit. I never had so many people ask me, "Why aren't you playing?". Next time.

Chris bought me Target Pool while he was in KS, but haven't had the opportunity to use it yet. I've got a tourney tomorrow night and leagues Tuesday, dentist appt Wednesday, Halloween Thursday, and I'll have to rest Friday /ccboard/images/icons/laugh.gif, so it probably won't be til this weekend.

Thanks again, Steve.

Heide ~ will eventually make it to the ph

Karatemom
10-27-2002, 07:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: bluewolf:</font><hr> Heide,

I practice the following.

just with the cb,shoot at the end center diamond to make it go 2 rails, 3 rails, 4 rails, then one half rail, 1/4 rail etc till i can put it in an inch of where i want it. i dont have it down to perfection 100%,just something i practice at least twice a week.

once upon a time, when i can finally pocket balls with regularity, i figure this will come in handy.

bw <hr></blockquote>

I think I understand that one. However, using an ob in a scenario would help me a little more because of how it acts against the cb.

Heide

Dafatman
10-28-2002, 12:44 AM
You don't. Quote, Jerry Briesath, "You control the cue stick and understand the cueball...." Practice fundamentals and stroke repetition. And for those of you who believe in watching the cue ball last because your strokes are so unrepeatable that you have to make sure where you strike the cueball, well, god bless you, keep trying....
As for kicking, I assume you are talking about rail first shots or making good hits. Check out mirror systems and such in the Science of Pocket Billiards. Example:START(
%AP2Y0%HJ8Y8%P^2V9%UN0\6%V^1W0%WC6[4%XK7Y5%YK7\5%ZK6Y5

)END Aim at the point on the rail that is perpendicular and the same distance from the nose of the cushion. This shot calls for slight "running" or top, right english. Or for kicking at a back just widen the set up to this....START(
%AU1Q9%HJ0U1%PY2P8%VY2P8%XI9U7

)END

Karatemom
10-28-2002, 01:26 AM
My fundamentals are pretty strong, that is if you're talking about stance, grip, etc. My stroke needs some work. There are some days I've got that "touch" and others that I don't.

I do not look at the cb last, my eyes are focused on the ob on my last and final stroke. I have a 4 stroke pattern that was taught to me. One warm up, 2 to make sure I'm aiming on the cb at the correct point, and 1 final.

I've tried the mirror system for kicks, but I just can't grasp it. It is easier to use parallel lines for 2 rails, and for the time being, I do a lot of guessing on 1 rail kicks.

I do know that it will all come to me in time, with a lot of practice, which I get in as much as possible. Was just wondering what everyone else does; looking for other points of view.

Heide

bluewolf
10-28-2002, 03:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Karatemom:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: bluewolf:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; Heide,

I practice the following.

just with the cb,shoot at the end center diamond to make it go 2 rails, 3 rails, 4 rails, then one half rail, 1/4 rail etc till i can put it in an inch of where i want it. i dont have it down to perfection 100%,just something i practice at least twice a week.

once upon a time, when i can finally pocket balls with regularity, i figure this will come in handy.

bw &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I think I understand that one. However, using an ob in a scenario would help me a little more because of how it acts against the cb.

Heide <hr></blockquote>

I still need a little practice on cb speed control.Then I will add the ob into the picture.I know I need to master this too because if I am hitting a ball at the other end with one rail speed for a safety, I get more action off of the rail than i would have liked,depending on the cut,english etc and whether the ob is frozen etc. Challenging game and I have heard some good suggestions here too.

bw

10-28-2002, 06:29 AM
<hr></blockquote>
And for those of you who believe in watching the cue ball last because your strokes are so unrepeatable that you have to make sure where you strike the cueball, well, god bless you, keep trying....<hr></blockquote>

I don't know man, I look at the cueball last, and rarely miss to be honest.. but it doesn't matter where you look as long as you have some sort of strait stroke. I think it's easier to play postion though, if you check out the cueball last so you can make sure to get the right english. But I don't know.. when I'm a pro player I'll have more to say about that. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

phil in sofla
10-28-2002, 10:35 AM
As infinite as cue ball control may seem to be, most position requirements come up over and over again.

Getting to the middle of the table, or going end to end, or going to the side rail and back across the table again, are a couple of the main position plays you must have.

Kinnister's 60 minute workout is a couple of dozen 'reference' position play shots that come up all the time, and working those drills will certainly shorten your learning curve.

Proper speed is determined at a pretty subconscious level, IMO, and eventually you'll have enough experience to just think of the position you need, and somehow, deliver just the stroke speed needed. Until you get that experience, trial and error will teach it to you, and more dedicated efforts at getting many reps on those shots will accelerate the learning process.

The Monk has a shot that I've found very helpful for a certain speed of stroke. I believe he calls it the 2-3-2 shot. You put the cue ball at center table, set up an object ball a ball's width from the side pocket, with its edge even with the side pocket's far corner, pocket that ball with a little back cut, and try to get the cue ball to go three rails back to the center of the table. Set up another ball on the opposite side pocket the same way, go the other way around the table in the same way, and then repeat.

If you don't get to center table, that's fine. That will give you different angles on that shot, and more reps to fine tune the speed and spin required from that different position to again try to achieve center table position.

The Monk considers the speed that you learn in this exercise to be about the most important speed you can learn, which comes up in other shots all the time.

To practice end to end speed, put two balls on the rails in the middle of the short rails, take ball in hand on the first one, and use various hits (draw, top, running English, etc.) to get shape on the second ball.

You get to decide if your style is best to use multiple rails to control the speed, or fewer rails (using just top, or maybe inside English, for one rail shape). One thing that helped me a lot was to realize holding the ball up with a soft stroke was often harder and more needing precise speed than a harder hit, going to the rail and back out.

Always decide if overrolling or underrolling the cue ball would be more beneficial, and tend to the harder or softer stroke as indicated, to let any speed error work in your favor.

Karatemom
10-28-2002, 12:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: phil in sofla:</font><hr> Proper speed is determined at a pretty subconscious level, IMO, and eventually you'll have enough experience to just think of the position you need, and somehow, deliver just the stroke speed needed. Until you get that experience, trial and error will teach it to you, and more dedicated efforts at getting many reps on those shots will accelerate the learning process.

The Monk has a shot that I've found very helpful for a certain speed of stroke. I believe he calls it the 2-3-2 shot. You put the cue ball at center table, set up an object ball a ball's width from the side pocket, with its edge even with the side pocket's far corner, pocket that ball with a little back cut, and try to get the cue ball to go three rails back to the center of the table. Set up another ball on the opposite side pocket the same way, go the other way around the table in the same way, and then repeat.

If you don't get to center table, that's fine. That will give you different angles on that shot, and more reps to fine tune the speed and spin required from that different position to again try to achieve center table position.

The Monk considers the speed that you learn in this exercise to be about the most important speed you can learn, which comes up in other shots all the time.

To practice end to end speed, put two balls on the rails in the middle of the short rails, take ball in hand on the first one, and use various hits (draw, top, running English, etc.) to get shape on the second ball.
<hr></blockquote>

I've practiced that shot of the Monk's before in my drills. While reading your post, I realized that I have always been concentrating on pocketing the ball rather than the speed or position of the cb. Right now, I'm probably 90% sure when I'm down on the ball that it will go in. The hard part is to concentrate on placement of the cb while still having the confidence that I'm going to make the ball. I realize this sounds very beginner-ish, but I yam what I yam, I guess /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif.

Thanks,

Heide ~ very appreciative

10-28-2002, 09:50 PM
This may sound strange but it happened overnight for me. One day I didn't know what I was doing with the cue ball and then the next day it was just all there, kind of like a revelation. LOL! I think if you keep practicing and stick it out it will all come together.

Best wishes,

The nice anynomous. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Karatemom
10-28-2002, 10:00 PM
Thank you for your thoughts. It's nice to know that there are nice anonymous' out there /ccboard/images/icons/laugh.gif.

Heide ~ maybe it'll come tomorrow /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

10-29-2002, 09:33 AM
I can explain and explain over and over q ball control, but you don't see it, and since you are not an advanced player, it would be hard for you to learn just by taking my words....SO, I will introduce you to a video that changed by entire game. Pool is nothing but q ball control, and this video tells you how to get position from anywhere. Shots include the follow spin at an angle to get an angle, draw spin at an angle, and all other shots to get the q ball off of the TANGENT line. The video is called Byrnes Advanced Shots Volume II. I will see you in tournaments soon!

9 Ball Girl
10-29-2002, 10:11 AM
Hi Heide. There's an article in the October issue of Inside Pool that has an article by Tom Simpson on this. It's the same thing that Barbara told you--using a piece of paper on the table to get the cue ball to that spot. I can scan that page and send it to you if you like.

Karatemom
10-29-2002, 12:53 PM
Thanks. I've read his first two books, but I think seeing it done may help a little more.

Heide

Karatemom
10-29-2002, 12:54 PM
Thanks, but Chris bought me Target Pool, which is basically the same thing. I plan on trying it out this weekend, if I have time. It seems as though a lot of what everyone has said relates back to that.

Heide

#### leonard
10-29-2002, 01:12 PM
Try playing position to a dollar bill on the table, the best way is to play to bill that you cannot see its location on the table, but must put the spot in your mindseye. Once your body adjusts to hitting your goal you can play to spots that you can see. ####

Karatemom
10-29-2002, 03:17 PM
I'm not Chris, you know./ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif I can barely hit an 8 1/2 x 11" piece of paper.

Heide ~ but I guess I'll give it a whirl

Rod
10-29-2002, 08:15 PM
Heide, try a poster board! lol Then just whack it down a little as needed./ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif That's a good idea leonard. Similar, I'll play position behind me, lift a little let the c/b come past me and determine how good the position is without looking. It is amazing how well it works with visualation in your minds eye. Ever see that one ball that's in the way of position or near where you want whitey to stop? It is also in your minds eye and if you don't visualize a safe way past it your mind will let you hit that ball or freeze behind it. The mind is a powerful weapon on how well it calculates, it just needs to see a different picture sometimes. Your camera, your taking the picture.

Heide, Just thought I'd mention that drill I set up or any drill that has to do with variables on how much ball you hit is definately worth while for speed control. After all how much ball you hit has everything to do with c/b speed outside of the stroke speed or any english. Ok I'll quit babbling now. lol