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10-25-2002, 11:31 AM
I was home sick for the last few days, so I spent some time watching TV. I happened to find pool on ESPN - it was Mika vs. Steve Knight. Mika wins the first game, then Steve runs out the second game. He shoots the 9-ball in the corner pocket, which, the 9-ball was only a few inches from, and the shot was practically straight in. After he makes the 9-ball, the ref informs Steve that he didn't call his pocket, and that he didn't win the game! So, what they do is, they leave the cue-ball where it rested after Steve made the 9-ball, then they spotted the 9-ball and it was Mika's shot. Mika went on to make the shot and win the game. I think this is absolutely outrageous. These little nitty rules might be fine in the minds of some APA league players (as I know that the APA has the "ooh! ooh! ohh! you didn't call your 8-ball!" rule in effect), but they have no place in professional pool. It is an insult to the players, and to the sport, to have something as nitty as "you didn't call your pocket" cost a player a game that they won!

Also, not only did this rediculous rule/call cost Steve Knight the game, but it set the tone for the entire match.

Chris Cass
10-25-2002, 12:04 PM
Ya know Joe,

Rules are rules and although it was odvious. There still is respect of the opponent and dignity(sp) a real player must have. I myself would have given the game to Steve all along. I don't know why Mika did this and don't much care. It was his right to do so but there's something morally wrong with it in my eyes.

Regards,

C.C.~~let the chips fall where they may but give a little respect for the bottom line.

PoolFan
10-25-2002, 12:20 PM
I completely agree with you that ESPN's "Call the 9-ball pocket" is stupid and that it should not exist. I guess ESPN believes that this rule adds integrity to the game. But the rule is out and out stupid and you are right it is an insult to professional pool.

But on the other hand, Steve Knight was well aware of the rule, he just forgot to call the 9-ball pocket. Stupid rule or not, it was a rule of the tournament and had to be followed.

Poolfan - would love to see ESPN actually produce a decent event

Ken
10-25-2002, 12:40 PM
They should operate under the same rules as straight pool. If it's obvious to the ref then he calls it.

The next day I seem to recall that Mika also got a game from Efren the same way. Efren was about to do it again but the crowd made so much noise that he got up from the shot and called it. I wouldn't be surprised if he exceeded the time in the process but Tipton didn't call that.

Just to show that they were not biased, earlier in the set when Mika was about to play a combo on the nine the crowd thought he didn't call it and started yelling. He missed it and got up with a confused look on his face obviously wondering why everyone made so much noise while he was trying to concentrate on the shot.

Tipton tried to get the crowd to stay out of the match but it was impossible since everyone knows how stupid the rule is.
KenCT

10-25-2002, 12:46 PM
You forgot one thing: It was the PLAYERS who wanted that rule because they wanted to eliminate lucky 9-balls. Whether the shot was obvious or not, the players have to play by their own rules.

Wally_in_Cincy
10-25-2002, 12:59 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> You forgot one thing: It was the PLAYERS who wanted that rule because they wanted to eliminate lucky 9-balls. Whether the shot was obvious or not, the players have to play by their own rules. <hr></blockquote>

Are you sure? Where did you hear that? I thought it was the event promoter that wanted it. I'm not saying I don't believe it but why would the players want a completely different rule than what they are accustomed to?

BTW Ortmann reminded his opponent Bustamante to call the 9 a couple years ago. Very sportsmanlike move.

10-25-2002, 01:04 PM
There were complaints in the past about players lucking in the 9 ball. The promoter was merely doing what the players asked.

Dafatman
10-25-2002, 01:17 PM
I think CC is right on the money. Also, you would think that someone in the "proffessional" ranks would have enough
sense to say "gentleman's call" such as the BCA leagues, if it's an obvious shot no indication is necessary except on banks or combos and the opponent always has the option to ask which pocket if it is questionable to him.

10-25-2002, 01:33 PM
You Anonymorons are a bunch of trolls. If I had said "Ha ha ha! Great rule!", you would have posted about how bad the rule is. Go back under your bridge, troll.

By the way, it isn't the players who determine the format of a tournament. There may be meetings and such, but in the end, the promoters determine the format. Also, if there WERE a player out there that wanted it to be call-pocket 9-ball, it wasn't for the purpose of nitting someone out of a game for not calling an obvious hanger.

10-25-2002, 02:07 PM
Joe Bloe-hard is wrong. Anon is right. The players wanted that rule for that event. They didn't want lucky 9-balls to be a factor.

10-25-2002, 02:29 PM
What am I wrong about? Do you honestly think that 1) the players had the final say as to what the rules were, and 2) they wanted call-pocket 9-ball so they could nit other players out of games when they didn't call hangers? Also, WHICH Anon is right? You all look the same to me! /webbbs/images/icons/laugh.gif

Harold Acosta
10-25-2002, 03:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> BTW Ortmann reminded his opponent Bustamante to call the 9 a couple years ago. Very sportsmanlike move. <hr></blockquote>

It was the other way around. Busta told Ortman, and it cost Busta the tournament Champion of Champions.

Harold Acosta
10-25-2002, 03:59 PM
Definitely a stupid rule if the shot is obvious!

Harold ~ thinks you must be STUPID if most of the times (99%) you don't know where the freaking 9 ball is going to be made!

Vicki
10-26-2002, 01:32 AM
Joe,

The tournament you saw was an 8 man invitational that paid $50,000. If being one of the 8 invited to a chance at $50K is an insult then there is no hope at all for pro pool. The promoters of this event are literlly the only promoters getting men's pool on ESPN - and I mean the only ones. No one else. So if they are doing something wrong then by all means, you better call them right away.

Don't bite the hand feeding our pros. If you don't like the format and you think you can do a better job you go right on ahead. In the meanwhile, most of us don't have the money, time, resources or capability to be promoters of successfull events. So those of us who know we are just going to sit in the audience at applaud when the pros get automatic shape need to e-mail ESPN and let them know how much we enjoy seeing pro pool on TV - and while we are at it... a call or note to Billiards International, Ltd might not be a bad idea. Let them know how much you appreciate the work they do for pool.

I don't know if the players wanted the format or if it was the promoters or ESPN... what does it matter??? Until all the major tournaments are televised and pool has a tour and a players organization we better not complain or we risk losing what little we have.

I attended that event and I can tell you... there is not a more exciting format than the Sudden Death, Winner-Take-All. I am sorry you feel there are flaws in the format and I appreciate and respect your right to think whatever you want. But I feel very strongly that this kind of criticism is the very reason no one wants to take a leadership role in pro pool. Until it stops and we give due credit to our small handfull of promoters we will be stuck seeing re-runs, re-runs, re-runs, if we are lucky.

Just my opinion, of course.

Vicki

Vicki
10-26-2002, 01:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Chris Cass:</font><hr> Ya know Joe,

Rules are rules and although it was odvious. There still is respect of the opponent and dignity(sp) a real player must have. I myself would have given the game to Steve all along. I don't know why Mika did this and don't much care. It was his right to do so but there's something morally wrong with it in my eyes.

Regards,

C.C.~~let the chips fall where they may but give a little respect for the bottom line. <hr></blockquote>

Chris,

Just to set the record straight... Mika didn't make the call. There was a tournament director/referee who made the call. Whatever Mika would have done in a less formal format is another issue all together. In a televised match he couldn't "over rule" the director's call. It was out of Mika's hands. Just wanted to clear that up so no one questions Mika's morals. The TD was doing his job so we can't accuse him of being morally wrong either :-)

Vicki

Rich R.
10-26-2002, 04:11 AM
Very well said Vicki, I agree totally.
If some here do not like the only game in town, make the effort to start their own game. I'm sure they will find it is not easy.
As long as all rules are presented to the players before the tournament, all is fair. Where would you make the distinction between an obvious shot and a not obvious shot that should be called. If you require one nine ball shot to be called, all must be called.
Rich R.

CarolNYC
10-26-2002, 04:38 AM
This was the "Challenge of Champions" at the Mohican Sun-Efren also made the same mistake-APA players use pocket markers-Correct?
Carol

Tom_In_Cincy
10-26-2002, 07:49 AM
If all the players are playing under the same rules, what is the problem?

Mika had a great opportunity to show some class by just tapping the cue ball and letting the foul be called. Mika knew he lost that game. My guess is that for $50,000 Mika would call a foul on Charlie Williams.. and take the cash.

MikeM
10-26-2002, 08:45 AM
Very true Vicki, but there was nothing stopping Mika from giving the ball back. If the spirit of the rule was to avoid slopped in nines that has nothing to do with forgetting to call an obvious shot. The right thing to do was give the ball back. Mika made a stand by not attending the Open last month. If he really wants to be known as a man of principle he should act that way all the time. JMO.

MM

Nostroke
10-26-2002, 08:48 AM
The point is the rule is there to prevent someone winning by "lucking the ball in" not to provide a way to lose by failing a memory test. Either the ref should make the call as to whether the ball was shot in the intended pocket or as in straight pool he should call the ball himself subject to correction by the player- Very simple. Only in pool, could this low life, desperado/bust-out move from creeps stealing weekly pool room tournaments find its way into a premier event.

Why did Bustamente do what he did? Because he knows the intent of the rule and wants to win "fair" which makes him pretty admirable in my book.

Efren and the others have played 6 million games without calling the nine and for them to forget is perfectly normal. Take out a pen and paper and try writing a sentence without crossing a t or dotting an i.

Tom_In_Cincy
10-26-2002, 09:04 AM
I agree Mike.
Too bad that this didn't happen. It would have done wonders for the game and its perception from the players and the public. A missed opportunity to say the least.

10-26-2002, 09:22 AM
Far worse in my opinion is using the SARDINE GIZMO, making craters in the cloth, and racking the 9-Ball on the spot.

If not for the sponsorship money given by the Sardo family, there would NEVER be a SARDINE GIZMO used ANYWHERE.

Troy

Ken
10-26-2002, 09:25 AM
Craters are only for badly worn cloth. They don't use craters at the tournaments. The device should be avoided anyway as it spoils the game.
KenCT

10-26-2002, 10:36 AM
Well Ken, the last I knew, instructions with the GIZMO led to craters in the cloth, be it new or old cloth.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Ken:</font><hr> Craters are only for badly worn cloth. They don't use craters at the tournaments. The device should be avoided anyway as it spoils the game.
KenCT <hr></blockquote>

10-26-2002, 04:13 PM
That line of reasoning is pure bullsh*t! Just because you cannot or do not wish to do-it-yourself, does not eliminate your right to some constructive criticism. And just because someone does do it, does not mean they can't do it better.

Jeesh!

TomBrooklyn
10-26-2002, 07:14 PM
I appreciate the intent of the rule, but not the way it was implemented for an obvious shot. In a refereed game, however, should the player that benefits from the ruling reject it, even if doesn't like the rule?

To go even a step further, in a refereed game, should a player call a foul against himself or correct the ref for a WRONG call made in his favor?

For example, in a professional baseball game, suppose the 2nd base ump calls a runner out at second, but the second baseman knows he missed touching the bag with his foot by a quarter inch from an angle the ump couldn't see. Should he admit this to the ump?

If I was that second baseman in an unrefereed game, I would make the honest call on myself, even if every other player on both teams and every spectator thought the runner was out. In a refereed game I would not. It is not my obligation in a refereed game to make calls on myself.

In the case of a pool game which is an individual rather than a a team sport, Mika could have given the ball back without having to consider the opinions of his teammates. This would have been the epitome of good sportsmanship. However, if there were people wagerering on the outcome of the match, to purposely give the game back to Steve would have been unfair to them.

=Tom=

Tom_In_Cincy
10-26-2002, 08:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>
TomBrooklyn: I appreciate the intent of the rule, but not the way it was implemented for an obvious shot. In a refereed game, however, should the player that benefits from the ruling reject it, even if doesn't like the rule?
=Tom= <hr></blockquote>

=Tom=
No, a player shouldn't REJECT it.. but they sure could "right a wrong" if they wanted to. I would consider this very good sportsmanship. And, not hold it against them if they accepted it either.

TomBrooklyn
10-26-2002, 09:42 PM
Quote: Tom_In_Cincy: As far as calling a foul on yourself .. its real easy when you know everyone else knows there was a foul.. what about those times when you don't know for sure?.. do you call it anyway?

Tom Sez:
I would call the foul on myself even if I was positive no one else knew.
I play to have fun, for the comraderie and to enjoy winning, in that order.
I would dislike myself and cause conflict in my own mind as to why others shouldn't dislike me if I was unethical in a pool game.
The only way I would benefit is in my enjoyment of winning.
But that is number three on my list, and would come at the cost of numbers one and two.
=TB=

nmshooter
10-27-2002, 06:20 AM
deliberately fouling to lose a game so that someone who broke the rules is classy? I agree he made a mistake but thats the way the game goes. What if he had miscued and not even hit the 9 ball? Was Mika supposed to intentionally foul to give him the shot back just because he knew where the ball was "supposed" to go and 99.99 percent of the time he would have done it correctly. NO, a miscue is a players error. Just like a mental error is. Not calling your pocket in a "call pocket" game is just that, a mental error.

Cant fault your opponent for errors that you make.

PS&gt; I agree its a stupid rule that shouldnt be in place or at least should be altered. I mean, you can tell the difference between obvious and slop. But rules are rules, right or wrong. Follow them or change them.

10-27-2002, 07:16 AM
I agree that the called-9 rule has no place as it stands. Either 9-ball is a called-pocket game or it's not ... and it's not !!! If you make any other ball, you continue. Why should you be penalised for making the un-called 9 ?

In this case, the 9 is still a legally potted ball, and even if you are playing a called-9 rule, if you forget to call the 9, your innings should continue - the 9 should be spotted, and you get another go. Handing the table over to the opponent is disgraceful.

A rule is a rule, though. So if the tournament rule says you've got to hit your head off the table three times before each shot, and you still decide to play, then you'd better stock up with some aspirin.

Klutz

Tom_In_Cincy
10-27-2002, 08:54 AM
nmshooter,

Steve Knight, the spectators, Mika, the camera man and the TV announcers all knew where the 9 ball was going.. AND the 9 ball went there. The ref was the only idiot in the room.

Mika knew he had lost that game, and took full advantage of the rules to get the game back. I do not fault him in any way for this. I was just making a statement that he could have shown some class by acknowledging his opponent's skills and competitveness, regardless of the rules.

We could have another discussion about rules if you want.. I have plenty to say, and I have in the past had the rules in the BCA books reworded or changed.

MikeM
10-27-2002, 10:10 AM
Tom,

You're wandering pretty far afield with your hypotheticals. This was a pretty specific occurence and it was the "spirit" of the rule that I referenced. The intent of the rule is to alleviate lucked in nine balls, that's been met. And, IMO, any wagering that MIGHT be involved should NEVER be a consideration. It has nothing to do with what happens between two players on the table. If the players ever thought about wagering, Chad Brown wouldn't have dropped an easy interception last week and cost me $50!

MM

10-28-2002, 10:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


Joe,

The tournament you saw was an 8 man invitational that paid $50,000. If being one of the 8 invited to a chance at $50K is an insult then there is no hope at all for pro pool. The promoters of this event are literlly the only promoters getting men's pool on ESPN - and I mean the only ones. No one else. So if they are doing something wrong then by all means, you better call them right away.


<hr></blockquote>

Vickie: Yes, they are doing something wrong, and I shouldn't have to call them right away. Being willing to put up $50k for the players in an event where they will probably generate $500k via ESPN hardly gives them the right to insult a player by taking a game from him that he rightfully won. It didn't only cost him that game, but it can be argued that the entire match was effected because that one [bad] call shifted all the momentum to one player. It's unfortunate that you people don't see this, and because there are so many who see nothing wrong with it, nothing will ever be done about it.

Ken
10-28-2002, 10:56 AM
Where do you get the idea that they make $500k from ESPN? ESPN charges a lot to tape and broadcast pool matches and the promoters get very little in return.
KenCT

10-28-2002, 11:03 AM
I don't know what the whole debate here is. What happened in that match completely undermines the original intent of the rule. They don't want players slopping in 9-balls to win matches. I will go out on a limb and say that I am POSITIVE that NONE of the people who thought of putting that rule in effect were thinking that it would offer the added benefit of taking a game away from their opponent if they didn't call their pocket on an obvious shot. I'll even go FURTHER out on a limb and say that NONE of the players in that tournament would have made that call themselves because they know how rediculous that would be. Even with that rule in effect, I think a warning would have been more appropriate. In every tournament I have ever played, the TD always has the final say. In this case, he could have given Steve a warning, and I'm sure that it wouldn't have drawn any objection from Mika. Again, it really is unfortunate for this game/sport that so many of you can't see what is wrong with this. Professional pool is just so unorganized because there are no standard set of rules, and nobody agrees on what those rules should be if there were to be any put in place. Then add the fact that everyone interprets the rules differently anyway, and it's no wonder that it is the way it is. As some of you suggest to "go promote a better event if you don't like it", I'd like to point out that, for the reasons I just gave, it isn't POSSIBLE to go out and promote a better event. What we have is the best it's gonna get. Does that mean that fans and players don't have the right to point out when they believe something wasn't right? I sure don't think so.

Rich R.
10-28-2002, 11:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Joe Bloe:</font><hr>It's unfortunate that you people don't see this, and because there are so many who see nothing wrong with it, nothing will ever be done about it.
<hr></blockquote>
What is unfortunate is that you do not understand that all of these rules were set before the match and the players were aware of them. This was not a bar room match with players making up rules as they go. All players involved knew that they had to call the 9-ball and failure to call the 9-ball would be considered a foul. It is very simple.

Although these are not the rules in every tournament, they happened to be the rules for this tournament and they must be followed, as in any other tournament. For example, if a tournament states that they are using Texas Express rules, you can't enter and play by some other set of rules. You play any tournament by the rules that have been established for that event.
I'm sure none of the players will refuse to play for $50k because they don't care for that rule.
Rich R.

10-28-2002, 11:48 AM
I'm actually basing my guess on something, but I don't care to go through the process of explaining myself. Obviously I'm talking to the wrong crowd here. Maybe you guys are right. Rules are rules, everyone knew the rules, most of the money is going to the players, and nothing was wrong with the call. I'm done with this topic.

rackmup
10-28-2002, 12:07 PM
Post deleted by rackmup

Vicki
10-28-2002, 12:16 PM
MikeM,

I can't really speak about what the "spirit" of the rule was but I can tell you that in a televised pro event where the rules are explained in advance (the night before) you can't just turn to the TD and essentially over rule him and give the game to Steve Knight - even though he may have deserved it. Fist of all, the promoters will never ask you back, second, it wouldn't do any good whatsoever because the rules were explained and everyone understood in advance that the nine would have to be called every time. He couldn't have given it back. The tournament director can't be over ruled.

How could you do anything to risk not being invited back to a $50K event? It's not even just this event but also other invitational events that are run by the same people. It's nearly $100K a year they have on the line if they don't get invited back. And it's not just the tournament payout... there is other compensation for attending.

In league or local tournaments this kind of thing would never happen because it is preceived to be the wrong thing to call someone for not calling an obvious shot. In pro pool where the promoters have a lot at stake and the fact that, as a pro player, you were one of eight that got an invitation, you can't give the ball back. It happened to Efren as well as to Steve Knight. They forgot to call the ball. It might have happened to me (in my dreams where I play so good I get to play with the big boys) and I think I would have been sick over it but if I knew the rules before hand I would also have to admit that I screwed up.

I can appreciate how a lot of people think this is a nit rule and that it's bu11sh1t. I don't entirely disagree. You can't avoid slop by saying that you must call the nine then allow a player to not call it - even if it is obvious - because that would open a different can of worms. People would complain about how there was a double standard and that the rules were not followed for some and others were penalized by the rule. I can hear it now. Same old song and dance. You can't win for trying in this industry. Everyone is a critic and no one ever gets the credit they deserve for putting on these events. It's a hard thing to do and it takes a lot of time, money and skill. Pool'd be better off if we could be as complimentary as we are critical.

Everyone has a right to their opinion and I certainly respect your opinion. I can see your side of this and, like I said, I don't entirely disagree. But there is more to it than just one shot that wasn't called.

Just my opinion, which deserves respect too.

Vicki

eg8r
10-28-2002, 12:35 PM
Tom_In_Cincy,

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Steve Knight, the spectators, Mika, the camera man and the TV announcers all knew where the 9 ball was going.. AND the 9 ball went there. The ref was the only idiot in the room
<hr></blockquote>

I think the above quote is asinine. Quite simply I believe the only idiot would be the one that decides to bend the rule for one guy and not anyone else. If we were to continue in this train of thought, maybe the next time someone scratches we should debate whether or not their skill would allow them to miss the scratch, and if so we should be classy and give them another chance at the shot.

eg8r

Lester
10-28-2002, 12:35 PM
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Well said Vicky! A rule, is a rule, is a rule. And as much as you'd like to "give it to your opponent", you simply cannot. Especially on TV, where it would probably "mess-up" most of the viewers, not understanding what happened. I can hear them talking about it now, Well the guy shot the 9ball in but lost because he didn't call it, and his opponent said That's okay you win. ***Lester***

MikeM
10-28-2002, 12:41 PM
I certianly do respect your opinion Vicki. It's very easy for me to sit here and say I'd give the ball back in a $50K tournament, because it will never happen to me. But, I'd like to believe the price tag on my integrity is higher than that. Someone make me an offer!/ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif

MM

Wally_in_Cincy
10-28-2002, 01:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Joe Bloe:</font><hr> I'm actually basing my guess on something, but I don't care to go through the process of explaining myself. Obviously I'm talking to the wrong crowd here. Maybe you guys are right. Rules are rules, everyone knew the rules, most of the money is going to the players, and nothing was wrong with the call. I'm done with this topic. <hr></blockquote>

Go ahead and explain it. We'll listen.

I think Ken is right. The ratings on ESPN are just not high enough to make any serious money. A lot of the casino tournaments are break-even at best or loss leaders, just for publicity or to get more butts thru the door.

10-28-2002, 01:19 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


"What if":

The ball was fired, uncalled, into the "obvious" pocket, but rattled and went into an adjacent pocket?


<hr></blockquote>

That isn't what happened - not even close, but since you asked, the answer is quite simple.

"You [censored] that ball in, Steve"

The 9 spots and Mika shoots. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out whether or not a ball sitting in front of the hole was slopped in or not.

Again, I have said this over and over and nobody has said anything about this (although I'm sure someone will come up with some sort of argument against it) - the rule wasn't put in place to take games away from people who don't call hangers. It was put in place to keep people from slopping the 9 in and winning because of it. I'm sorry, but I don't believe the "who is to say what is slop and not slop" argument. I have played for about 17 years now, and never once was I mistaken as to whether or not my opponent [censored] a ball in, or if they played the shot. So many of you on this board argue just for the sake of arguing. Disagree just for the sake of disagreeing. If someone posts something that can be argued against, the majority will almost always argue against it. Now, before you go arguing against THAT, why not take a look at all the threads. Go back in the archives, see for yourself. The majority here just trolls for posts that they can argue against, and then argues against them as soon as they find them. Anyway, have fun trolling, arguing, disagreeing, and whatever else the majority does here. You guys are tiresome, to say the least.

rackmup
10-28-2002, 01:29 PM
Post deleted by rackmup

10-28-2002, 01:32 PM
Joe, I have to agree with you. I don't think the rule was meant to impose a penalty on an obvious shot, or they would have added, that you had to put a hockey puck in front of the designated pocket. and.... besides, anyone that plays golf, golf, golf, can't be all that bad, bad, bad.

Lester
10-28-2002, 01:35 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: MikeM:</font><hr> I certianly do respect your opinion Vicki. It's very easy for me to sit here and say I'd give the ball back in a $50K tournament, because it will never happen to me. But, I'd like to believe the price tag on my integrity is higher than that. Someone make me an offer!/ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif

MM <hr></blockquote>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;We're on the same page Mike. I CAN be bought, -----BUT I AIN'T CHEAP. lol ***Lester***

10-28-2002, 01:38 PM
You got me. Now I should leave, eh? Just because so many here, of which you are included, happen to be ignorant people who spend most of their time flapping their gums to see who can flap the loudest (not to mention, probably can't play a radio (that's pool-room slang for, "you can't beat Mary Poppins", or "you couldn't shoot your way out of a wet paper bag with an Uzi", or "you couldn't get out with a road map", etc.)), in my opinion, doesn't mean that there aren't some here that I may be interested in what they have to say sometimes. There is - you just don't happen to be one of them. Sorry.

10-28-2002, 01:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Joe Bloe:</font><hr> I was home sick for the last few days, so I spent some time watching TV. I happened to find pool on ESPN - it was Mika vs. Steve Knight. Mika wins the first game, then Steve runs out the second game. He shoots the 9-ball in the corner pocket, which, the 9-ball was only a few inches from, and the shot was practically straight in. After he makes the 9-ball, the ref informs Steve that he didn't call his pocket, and that he didn't win the game! So, what they do is, they leave the cue-ball where it rested after Steve made the 9-ball, then they spotted the 9-ball and it was Mika's shot. Mika went on to make the shot and win the game. I think this is absolutely outrageous. These little nitty rules might be fine in the minds of some APA league players (as I know that the APA has the "ooh! ooh! ohh! you didn't call your 8-ball!" rule in effect), but they have no place in professional pool. It is an insult to the players, and to the sport, to have something as nitty as "you didn't call your pocket" cost a player a game that they won!

Also, not only did this rediculous rule/call cost Steve Knight the game, but it set the tone for the entire match. <hr></blockquote>



Let me tell you something here, POOL is a mental game.

IF you didn't call the 9 ball cuz you forget, then you are not MENTALLY prepared to play POOL.

As simple as that!

10-28-2002, 01:42 PM
SOMEONE AGREES WITH ME! You really need to register your nick because you may be the only friend I have on this board, and I need to know how to address you! /webbbs/images/icons/laugh.gif

P.S. I take back anything I ever said about the Anonymi! I love you guys! /webbbs/images/icons/smile.gif

rackmup
10-28-2002, 02:34 PM
Post deleted by rackmup

10-28-2002, 02:42 PM
I mis-spell a word and now I can't beat a non-player like you? You're good! You're very good!


P.S. Email me and if you bet high enough I'll fly to wherever you are (my email address is available here). If we're really gonna play, we don't need to have a woof contest here. I'm not just posting for the sake of others seeing. I'd really like to play. Don't worry, either - after I "RIDICULE" you even, I'll adjust.

eg8r
10-28-2002, 04:11 PM
Anon agreed with you because he had a mindless post like yourself. If you agree with what he said, then why didn't they add to the rule "However, if the shot is a gimme shot then no call has to be made."

IMHO you are the reason rules are enforced. Just because you believe something to be one way that does not make it the right way. The rule was put in place, and it was enforced. All parties involved agreed to the rule (or they would not have paid) and as far as I can tell they were all professional about it. I don't think Steve went to some board online and wined about his mental breakdown.

Why aren't you talking about his poor ability to follow the rule. Isn't him that made the mistake and not the rule makers. Also, the tournament director did what he was asked to do. Enforce the rules!!! Not make judgement calls on someones ability to pocket a hanger.

Sorry your argument about why the rule is there and whether there should be a deviation to fit each and every instance is mindless.

Have a great day, and when you play pool with someone, make sure you state what rules you are playing by however you will be able to make any changes as the game goes on.

eg8r

eg8r
10-28-2002, 04:19 PM
Rule was not set to decide whether <blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>...the shot is obvious!
<hr></blockquote>

It was put there to save the opponent from his opponent getting lucky. (this is my own interpretation, which seems to be the norm around here)

It is funny to see people on the board complaining about a rule and they never even played in the tournament, or heard any of the pros complaining about the rule.

eg8r

eg8r
10-28-2002, 04:28 PM
Joe Bloe continues to blow. ha ha

Why do you think the rule was put in place to <blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>nit other players out of games when they didn't call hangers? <hr></blockquote>

for goodness sake, you continue to whine about this. You must be a female (I know this is stereotyping and I am not a Chauvinist). You continue to put words in the someone elses mouth.

I bet you argue with the cop when he catches you speeding. I am sure you believe that the speed limit posted was only posted to get people tickets that are in a hurry, or some other lame excuse you continue to come up with.

eg8r &lt;~~~Trying not to flame just posting opinions after others post theirs

eg8r
10-28-2002, 04:31 PM
Was this an "ESPN" event. I was unaware that they promoted and ran pool tournaments. Could you please post a hyperlink or something other than heresay that states this was ESPNs event and they made all decisions about rules.

Thanks,

eg8r

eg8r
10-28-2002, 04:34 PM
Will the next time you are in an event and you have the chance to make 50k please tape the event for us. I am sure the other person will make a foul on "accident", and we all want to see you give them the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks,
eg8r &lt;~~~I am a stickler for the rules for and against me

eg8r
10-28-2002, 04:47 PM
This makes no sense to me <blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>...but not the way it was implemented for an obvious shot<hr></blockquote> The rule is implemented the same for every shot on the nine ball. Why do you feel this nine ball shot was different than the one that happened the game before? He was at the table about to make the 9. Did he call the pocket? (Lets refer to the rules, if yes then good he wins, if no, then sorry you know the rules and the opponent gets his chance to call the pocket and shoot). Well, surprise, he forgot. Sorry, the opponent was forced to play by the same rules.

This also happened to Cory one time (last year I think) when he was playing Alex P. I believe Cory forgot to call the pocket and made the ball. Well Alex (being a good friend was not happy about having to play the ball) understood what happened got up and shot the ball in. Cory did not whine on the boards about how the rules screwed him, he just sat down and said he could not believe he forgot to call the pocket (the exact words were caught on tape because the two were talking to each other about it).

eg8r

rackmup
10-28-2002, 04:57 PM
Post deleted by rackmup

Tom_In_Cincy
10-28-2002, 05:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>I think the above quote is asinine<hr></blockquote>

eg8r,

I make a comment and you insult me..

Shame on you..

next time we play, if you make a dumb mistake.. I will be sure that you play the full penalty.. just like you expect to..

And, what is all this "WE" stuff.. who do you represent?

10-28-2002, 05:08 PM
You sound like one of those jail house conversions. I am sure this religious enlightenment has something to due with your life being in the crapper.

eg8r
10-28-2002, 05:20 PM
i am sure it will not take long to make a mistake. I don't come on the board bragging of skills. Too much machismo for me. I will indeed respect the fact that I did make a mistake and wait for yours in response. I did not insult you, what I did was make a thoughtful comment on your comment.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Tom_In_Cincy,



Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Knight, the spectators, Mika, the camera man and the TV announcers all knew where the 9 ball was going.. AND the 9 ball went there. The ref was the only idiot in the room

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I think the above quote is asinine. Quite simply I believe the only idiot would be the one that decides to bend the rule for one guy and not anyone else. If we were to continue in this train of thought, maybe the next time someone scratches we should debate whether or not their skill would allow them to miss the scratch, and if so we should be classy and give them another chance at the shot.
<hr></blockquote>

As far as the we part, I am talking about myself you and anyone else that reads this. Meaning, if the next time someone scratches or what not, we (read you, me, anyone) should see if the person had the skill to make the shot. If it was dead in then we (read definition above) should be as classy as you are and give them the ball back by purposely fouling and giving them ball in hand.

I so much as hope you are this classy to me. I would love the opportunity to miss a straight in hanger (as you might describe the shot given the skill level at hand) and then have you foul on purpose so I can try again. I on the other hand am not that classy. This may be because my skill level is not as high as yours, and I take every opportunity to win even if we are playing call pocket and you forget.

I hope, really hope, you will quit being sensitive about topics when someone does not agree with you. I try not to insult anyone, however if you are insulted when you say something and I think it is crazy and type it here, then I will add this to the subject line (I have used this post as an example).

eg8r &lt;~~~Doing my best to get along with the rest

10-28-2002, 05:23 PM
You win. My inability to spell has rendered me powerless against your superior wit! I didn't think you wanted to play. You shouldn't make an offer that you don't mean - and you question my conviction! Yeesh (did I spell that right?)! Anyway, like I said, you win. You're the greatest. I'm done with you just like your ex-wife is. Doh (sp)!

Tom_In_Cincy
10-28-2002, 05:32 PM
Fair enough, eg8r, I will take it that you did not mean your post to say that I was "asinine".

As far as your other comments.. well, I have always had trouble comunicating with Texans. No offence intended.. I also have trouble communicating with New Yorkers. Its just that I was raised in the south, and tend to have to slow down the listening process.

nmshooter
10-28-2002, 05:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: MikeM:</font><hr> I certianly do respect your opinion Vicki. It's very easy for me to sit here and say I'd give the ball back in a $50K tournament, because it will never happen to me. But, I'd like to believe the price tag on my integrity is higher than that. Someone make me an offer!/ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif

MM <hr></blockquote>

How is your integrity at stake if you follow the rules?

nmshooter
10-28-2002, 06:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Joe Bloe:</font><hr> You got me. Now I should leave, eh? Just because so many here, of which you are included, happen to be ignorant people who spend most of their time flapping their gums to see who can flap the loudest (not to mention, probably can't play a radio (that's pool-room slang for, "you can't beat Mary Poppins", or "you couldn't shoot your way out of a wet paper bag with an Uzi", or "you couldn't get out with a road map", etc.)), in my opinion, doesn't mean that there aren't some here that I may be interested in what they have to say sometimes. There is - you just don't happen to be one of them. Sorry.
<hr></blockquote>

Why do you feel the need to make your points by insulting people? Half the people agreed with you that it was a bad thing to have happen and the rule should be changed but until then "rules are rules". I dont understand why you have to take peoples opinions as a personal attack on you.

10-28-2002, 06:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr>

As far as your other comments.. well, I have always had trouble comunicating with Texans. No offence intended.. I also have trouble communicating with New Yorkers. Its just that I was raised in the south, and tend to have to slow down the listening process. <hr></blockquote>

Well, that explains the dullard blank look as you are no doubt the product of two close relations. Now that we also know that the high point in your moronic existence is:

"...getting a rule reworded by the BCA..."

Now how does it feel to be the stinkin' fat fish in this small mud pond, Tom_Fool? Yea, we already know you feel totally outclassed at RSB/ASP. Even dregs of the barrel like ^MM^, Texas Willee, and Jimbo Ct. can give you the seven out when it comes to rhetorical cleverness. Your taking up bandwidth being the expert wannabe is a travesty. CCB will be forever doomed to mediocrity with your prolific presence.

10-28-2002, 07:58 PM
I have played against Tom and he is a much better talker than he is a player. Just ask anyone at the Open. They saw him and I. He lost, I didn't.

rackmup
10-28-2002, 08:04 PM
Post deleted by rackmup

10-28-2002, 08:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> I have played against Tom and he is a much better talker than he is a player. Just ask anyone at the Open. They saw him and I. He lost, I didn't. <hr></blockquote>

doesn't his picture remind you of the fat guy with the jiggly gut impersonating al gore on the jay leno show? ;&gt;)

eg8r
10-28-2002, 08:11 PM
Fair with me. i never call anyone asinine just comments sometimes made.

As for Texans, they are trying to pull me in, but my wife will not have it. I will be moving back to florida in the next couple years. Hopefully it is easier to communicate with floridians. ha ha

eg8r

eg8r
10-28-2002, 08:13 PM
I bet you can't type all that with the dictionary closed.

Funny to see this language coming from the hole you live in.

eg8r

eg8r
10-28-2002, 08:16 PM
Now here is the type of person I thought you were. Your vocabulary clearly resembles the sort of life you have probably made for yourself.

Now, please, I would like my burger plain and dry, and when that is done, clean the toilet.

eg8r

eg8r
10-28-2002, 08:18 PM
Hello anon,

Whats the matter, the teacher take the dictionary away. No big words this time. How about you make yourself known to everyone so we can see who this great pool player with the big vocabulary is.

eg8r &lt;~~~~Anon is probably better than the whole ccb

rackmup
10-28-2002, 08:19 PM
OUCH.

Regards,

Ken

Harold Acosta
10-28-2002, 08:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: eg8r:</font><hr> Rule was not set to decide whether ...the shot is obvious!

It was put there to save the opponent from his opponent getting lucky. (this is my own interpretation, which seems to be the norm around here)

It is funny to see people on the board complaining about a rule and they never even played in the tournament, or heard any of the pros complaining about the rule.

eg8r <hr></blockquote>

Funny how people who don't know how to read, or obviously play, take issue with this stupid rule.

Please read part of the original post:

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>He shoots the 9-ball in the corner pocket, which, the 9-ball was only a few inches from, and the shot was practically straight in. After he makes the 9-ball, the ref informs Steve that he didn't call his pocket...<hr></blockquote>

eg8r
10-28-2002, 08:49 PM
I can read. Maybe you are having a tough time making your point clear. The ref's job was not to decide whether the shot was straight in, a hanger, easy, etc. His job was to decide whether the pocket was called.
If you are able to twist your mind so tight to pull this gem out of your a__

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Funny how people who don't know how to read, or obviously play, take issue with this stupid rule<hr></blockquote>

You might want to refrain from any more intelligent conversations on the board. Maybe you meant comprehend instead of read (this would have been the sorry attempt of yours to show you vast knowledge above mine in the art of reading comprehension) , maybe it was something you think you thought. All I know is you are unable to be clear and concise in what you are trying to get across.

Let me help you (you and I have been here a long time funny this is just now happening). There is a rule in place to force the player at the table from pocketing the 9 ball before the chosen pocket is called out. Player A addresses the ball (who cares if it is hanging by a hair in the pocket) shoots it in. Never once calling out the intended pocket (here is where you need to pay close attention). Since the player shot the ball in and never called out the pocket so the ref could hear, player B was given the opportunity to step to the table. Now player B is also playing under the same rules. Player B calls the pocket and shoots the ball in and wins the game.

What is so difficult. You know the rules, he knew the rules, his opponent knew the rules and so did the ref. Player A screwed up, and sat down only to watch player B correctly address the desired pocket and then pocket the ball to win the game. Now, did player A get up and complain about the rule, NO. He knew he screwed up. However, ball banging, ccb board whining player decides he knows better than all and decides to complain. I certainly play the game and i understand all the rules. I may not like them but that is the rule. Also let me make something clear, I did not say I like the rule. What I am doing showing that I play by the rules. If a person enters a tournament and has a problem with the rules, then don't enter. Obviously the players did not have a problem with the rules, and the game went on.

Now given this new knowledge that has been bestowed upon you, please try to prove how great you are and how horrible I am in an attempt to make the tail between your legs look less noticable.

eg8r

10-28-2002, 08:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Anonymous:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; I have played against Tom and he is a much better talker than he is a player. Just ask anyone at the Open. They saw him and I. He lost, I didn't. &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

doesn't his picture remind you of the fat guy with the jiggly gut impersonating al gore on the jay leno show? ;&gt;) <hr></blockquote>

Rotflmao!

That was my thought exactly too. I was also at the Open and I think I know who you are. You think Tom Fool can figure it out? LOL

10-28-2002, 08:59 PM
Hey you anonomouses straighten up, you're giving us a bad name.

Harold Acosta
10-28-2002, 09:11 PM
Talk about asinine comments! Did you have to go through all that trouble to make your point? I don't know what is your "beef" but please stay off the crack cocaine. Sooner or later it will blow your mind away!

Comprende?

10-28-2002, 10:01 PM
Speaking for my anonymous self, I think that KaromKlutz's response is a very fair way to play the rule. The ball is legally pocketed even though it wasn't called, and it should be spotted back up and the shooter gets another crack at it. It would make for very interesting TV as well, depending on where the CB wound up after the shot.

Anonymous no. 428

10-28-2002, 11:15 PM
I will be out your way in Dec. I know who you are and where to find you. Will get together

eg8r
10-28-2002, 11:45 PM
Hey look...maybe I was not on cocaine the whole time. The message sunk in <blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Comprende?<hr></blockquote>that is exactly the word you misused the first time, but now using it quite nicely.

Yes I had to go through all that because now that it is clear and you understand, you see where you were wrong. Which is why you had such a wonderful reply.

Thanks,
eg8r &lt;~~~Another battle finished

10-28-2002, 11:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: eg8r:</font><hr>As for Texans, they are trying to pull me in, but my wife will not have it.
eg8r <hr></blockquote>

i suppose it might be region specific, don't hear a lot about i.n.s. raids in the panhandle, but generally, the borders of the republic of texas are open and inviting.

bring money.

dan

eg8r
10-28-2002, 11:49 PM
I hear ya. My wife will does not want to be here any longer, however she is dealing well with the locals. It appears it is just as easy to spend money here as it was in Orlando.

eg8r

10-28-2002, 11:51 PM
we've all had our stalkers. when they devote that much energy to it, it's usually a sign that they are about to move on.

hang in there.

dan

rackmup
10-29-2002, 09:07 AM
I will look forward to it. One can never have too many pool-playing friends.

/ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Regards,

Ken

Wally_in_Cincy
10-29-2002, 09:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> Yea, we already know you feel totally outclassed at RSB/ASP. <hr></blockquote>

If you are one of the physicists from RSB why don't you contribute something useful or start a good pool-related thread instead of dispensing unnecessary and unwarranted venom. Seriously. Just a suggestion.

your internet friend,

eg8r
10-29-2002, 10:39 AM
He must not have as high an outlook on his integrity. I would not consider my integrity threatened if I go and follow the rule that was broken in this tournament. Since both players are playing by the same rule, then it was a simple mistake. He was punished because of a simple mental lapse. Just the same as slightly rolling too far and scratching.

eg8r

10-29-2002, 10:45 AM
You know, I didn't read all of your post, but I am going to reply anyway. All of this started with me saying that I thought it was a bad call (I don't even know if you saw the match). I stand by that opinion. I don't think that was the original intent of putting the rule in place, and I don't think that taking the game away from Steve Knight like that had any sort of positive effect on professional pool. If you don't agree, great. Welcome to the club. Most people here don't agree. I'm done arguing and bickering with you people over this. If you want to follow me around from post to post and say something negative in response to whatever I say, be my guest, but if you're hoping to have us bickering back and forth, I'm sorry to say you'll be bickering with yourself. You might have had me if you posted a day earlier when I was irritated that so many don't see what could possibly be wrong with that rule. However, it's over now. I'm over it, and you're a day late.

10-29-2002, 10:56 AM
I really don't want to go through the entire thread to find examples, but some of those "opinions" WERE personal attacks against me. When you post something here that can be argued against, you can be sure that someone will post something along the lines of "you're an idiot for thinking that" (obviously paraphrased, but you get the point). All the bickering, although I was one of the ones bickering admittedly, has become old. Did I insult anyone here? Yep. Did anyone here insult me? Yep. As far as I'm concerned, it's over now.

eg8r
10-29-2002, 10:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>However, it's over now. I'm over it, and you're a day late. <hr></blockquote>Take a look at the day and time. You are a day late in your whining little response.

You are too sensitive.

This next quote is full of BS....<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>All of this started with me saying that I thought it was a bad call (I don't even know if you saw the match). <hr></blockquote>First, how is that a bad call? Be honest now and try to squeeze out a logical reason.

Let me help you: The rule is you have to call the shot. The ref noticed that Steve did not do this. So he made a foul. Without being thick headed about it and getting your panty in a wad, rethink your statement. The call the ref made was 100% CORRECT.

Second, who cares if I saw the match? Will the fact that I did not see the match change the facts. 1. Steve did not call the pocket. 2. The ref noticed this and called the foul. Doesn't change the facts whether I saw the match personally or not.

Please no more lame replies about you being done with this. You would have just ignored it if you were.

By the way, you started off this reply with <blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>You know, I didn't read all of your post, but I am going to reply anyway<hr></blockquote>I really hope you don't do this on a regular basis. You may get caught with your pants down or stuck in something you don't like.

eg8r &lt;~~~Not done as long as replies like this happen.

rackmup
10-29-2002, 11:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Joe Bloe:</font><hr>it's over now. I'm over it, and you're a day late.<hr></blockquote>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>The "DAY LATE" Rule 1-B

Section 3; paragraph 2:

"The poster should respond quickly and directly to the intended post with either a direct question and/or response. Should the responding poster fail to comply to said rule as stated herein, the responding poster will be found in violation of rule 1-B, section 3, paragraph 2 and will be found to have committed a posting foul, resulting in keyboard-in-hand to his opponent (also known as the defending poster). There will be no warnings given and no modification of this rule. This ruling is the prevailing ruling of previous rulings and negates any addendums to rulings previous to the one prevailing. Any additions/addendums to this ruling will be posted under another ruling in section 5; "Ruling Addendums and Changes".<hr></blockquote>

It seems crystal clear to me. It looks like Joe Bloe is correct on this one Ed. You are a day late. Sorry. K.B.I.H. to J.B.

Regards,

Ken

rackmup
10-29-2002, 11:11 AM
eg8r,

Do you smell it? *sniff, *sniff. Yes...no doubt about it. That pony is dead.

Regards,

Ken

10-29-2002, 11:42 AM
Guess we can all get a bit fired up sometimes in the heat of debate /webbbs/images/icons/smile.gif

MikeM
10-29-2002, 11:44 AM
If you have to ask that question you probably won't understand my reply, but I'll try anyway. If I were in Mika's shoes (again, this will NEVER happen) I would hand the ball to my opponent and say "call the pocket this time." Why? Because I understand that the "spirit of the rule" was to avoid slopped in nine balls, not to make a pro tournament more like APA league night at the local bar. I would feel bad to take a game like that. Call that weakness if you like, but I refer to it as maintaining my integrity. I want to beat someone because my game was better than their's. At the end of the day I want to feel good about what I have accomplished, not just that I have won $50K, but that I did it the right way.

Now to further complicate matters, if the ball were offered back to me, I would give it right back and say, "Nope. I screwed up and I deserve it."

In a league match a couple of weeks ago (against another CCBer who shall remain nameless/ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif, I accidentally tapped the CB on a warm up stroke. I handed the ball to We...uh my opponent and he said just put it back and shoot. I said no, I screwed up it's your ball. I wouldn't have felt right if I had won after fouling like that.


MM

rackmup
10-29-2002, 12:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Joe Bloe:</font><hr>I really don't want to go through the entire thread to find examples, but some of those "opinions" WERE personal attacks against me.<hr></blockquote>


Against Joe Bloe:



"If all the players are playing under the same rules, what is the problem?"
"Don't bite the hand feeding our pros. If you don't like the format and you think you can do a better job you go right on ahead."
"What is unfortunate is that you do not understand that all of these rules were set before the match and the players were aware of them."
"Where do you get the idea that they make $500k from ESPN?"
"Go ahead and explain it. We'll listen."
"It is funny to see people on the board complaining about a rule and they never even played in the tournament, or heard any of the pros complaining about the rule."
"You forgot one thing: It was the PLAYERS who wanted that rule because they wanted to eliminate lucky 9-balls. Whether the shot was obvious or not, the players have to play by their own rules."
"Joe Bloe-hard is wrong. Anon is right."
"Joe Bloe continues to blow. ha ha."
"...you continue to whine about this. You must be a female."
"You continue to put words in the someone elses mouth."
"I bet you argue with the cop when he catches you speeding. I am sure you believe that the speed limit posted was only posted to get people tickets that are in a hurry, or some other lame excuse you continue to come up with."
"Anon agreed with you because he had a mindless post like yourself."
"Sorry your argument about why the rule is there and whether there should be a deviation to fit each and every instance is mindless."
"Have a great day, and when you play pool with someone, make sure you state what rules you are playing by however you will be able to make any changes as the game goes on."
"You're not locked up in some little closet in Iraq; hiding your laptop from the Saddam's regime and posting in rebellion to your own country's rules are you?"
"Why do you feel the need to make your points by insulting people?"
"I dont understand why you have to take peoples opinions as a personal attack on you."
"I've also read most of the responses to your posts and very, very few are "on your side".
"Quote: Joe Bloe Harder:"
"Quote: Joe Bloe Hard:"
"I'm certain there are several here (myself included) that are willing to take you to task scholastically or on the table. Remember...you are the one that spells "ridiculous"; "rEdiculous". People in glass houses baby..."
"And yes...you've incorrectly spelled "Ridicule" at every pass. How are you at spelling "Formal Education"?
One other thing...you misspelled, "misspell". Jeez...will it ever end?"
"(hey everyone! Look at my new goat.)"



By Joe Bloe:



"It's unfortunate that you people don't see this, and because there are so many who see nothing wrong with it, nothing will ever be done about it."
"Obviously I'm talking to the wrong crowd here."
"You Anonymorons are a bunch of trolls."
"Go back under your bridge, troll."
"Also, WHICH Anon is right? You all look the same to me!"
"So many of you on this board argue just for the sake of arguing. Disagree just for the sake of disagreeing."
"The majority here just trolls for posts that they can argue against, and then argues against them as soon as they find them. Anyway, have fun trolling, arguing, disagreeing, and whatever else the majority does here. You guys are tiresome, to say the least."
"Just because so many here, of which you are included, happen to be ignorant people who spend most of their time flapping their gums to see who can flap the loudest (not to mention, probably can't play a radio (that's pool-room slang for, "you can't beat Mary Poppins", or "you couldn't shoot your way out of a wet paper bag with an Uzi", or "you couldn't get out with a road map", etc.)"
"I mis-spell a word and now I can't beat a non-player like you?"
"I'd really like to play. Don't worry, either - after I "RIDICULE" you even, I'll adjust."
"I'm done with you just like your ex-wife is."



I'd say the score is about even. Perhaps it's time for all involved parties to "bury the hatchet".

Regards,

Ken

10-29-2002, 12:33 PM
Do you really think they are going to make $500k from a pool tournament on ESPN? I was under the impression that at best it is a break even proposition. For years I have read about how poorly the rating are for these events and that ESPN has Billiard organizations and players begging for them to support billiards by airing them despite the poor ratings. What is the largest number of spectators you have seen at these events? I have been in Vegas during a couple of these (Yes APA, and BCA please don't hold it against me) and they offer free admissions. Even with a couple thousand pool players in the area there are always seats available.

Wally_in_Cincy
10-29-2002, 12:47 PM
"yes Howard it looks like this one's going to end in a draw"

"Chris these two warriors will meet again. I had breakfast with the champ just this morning..."

"Shut up Howard. This is Chris Schenkel signing off from Caesar's Palace...."

MikeM
10-29-2002, 01:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: eg8r:</font><hr> Just the same as slightly rolling too far and scratching.

eg8r <hr></blockquote>

Wouldn't this be considered a PHYSICAL error?/ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif

MM

eg8r
10-29-2002, 01:13 PM
Since you are technical, I would call it a physical error by not moving my mouth and calling the shot. It takes the body to physically say something, you cannot think it and be heard.

Quit this. You are arguing for the sake of it. I just don't believe the integrity rap that you preach. I will say this, given neither you nor I will ever be in a match with this sort of money at hand (sorry I speak for myself, I will never be there) if I were playing a friend of mine (I don't gamble on games) I would have given them the chance to shoot again.

My integrity is unaffected (I am not sure if this is a word or if I used it correctly but I like it), however a rule is a rule and I think it is crazy to debate it here.

eg8r

MikeM
10-29-2002, 01:39 PM
Actually I was pointing out a mistake in your analogy. A position error is a physical error - you shot too hard - forgetting to call the pocket is a mental error. See the difference!

While we're at it do you see the dichotomy in your last response? If a rule is a rule, why would you give your friend a chance to re-shoot? Would it not be a rule in this instance? There should be no difference between how you treat it in a friendly game and a pro game. That is what I mean by integrity. It is not meant to be a judgement of anyone else. Just a standard that I hold myself to.

Okay, you're right I am arguing for the sake of it. I'll quit it now.

MM

eg8r
10-29-2002, 09:06 PM
Finally an intelligent reply.

I was calling a mistake a mistake(in the beginning). Mental or physical it was still a mistake.

I a friendly game, i am not out for blood, the competitive edge is not present. In the tourney I am out for blood and looking for a competitive advantage. I don't feel this changes integrity, just two completly different situations.

No more arguing. Does not really matter who is thought to be right or wrong.

eg8r