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10-29-2002, 10:32 PM
Although I am a registered member of CCB, I am posting this note anonymously--perhaps I am a little shell-shocked by the content of many of the threads lately, or perhaps I am a coward. Draw your own conclusions. I can only hope that you will judge this message based on its content and not on the identity of the poster.

I joined the CCB a few months ago after looking at all of the various pool forums. CCB seemed to be an active, diverse, and reasonably well behaved group. Sure there was lots of disagreement and debate, but for the most part it was civil.

Admittedly I may have jumped in during a lull in the action, but in the past months, this forum has gone from what I would characterize as intelligent and helpful conversation to something akin to a street brawl.

My point is not to fan the flame again, but to suggest that this forum that we, if I may be presumptuous, have come to know and love, is not in grave danger of being abolished by the folks at Billiards Digest.

I hardly doubt that the current state of the CCB has escaped their attention. And given that they are a publication devoted to promoting and improving the game we love, they may in fact be wondering if the CCB is not counterproductive to their pursuits and the image of the game they are trying to foster. Imagine the first impression of a new player who just stops by to get a little helpful advice on their stroke and happens to take a look a some of the current threads.

I certainly donít want to step on anyoneís First Amendment rights, nor do I want to jeopardize the diversity of this forum. But we are, after all, guests in a home provided by Billiards Digest. Unless we want that home to be torn down as an unwelcome tenement, maybe it is time to consider a little self-restraint and common courtesy.

There. Iíve said my piece. Let the flames begin!

Long live the CCB!

10-29-2002, 11:19 PM
I don't think a generality is necessary. You can point straight to the offenders. They are few but cause all of the trouble and believe me, they know who they are. I doubt they care though. They revel in the attention. The next problem is how to get some real knowledge back here. I have been reading here for several years and it is not even close to what it was. There are a lot of google groups where you could ask the most technical question and get reliable information. There is not one expert left here. How about the stumblebum answers that are often supplied. I asked some questions about epoxy not long ago on another forum and got an answer from a chemist with the West epoxy company. He has emailed me since with great information regarding boat building. At one time people like Richard Black used to post. Jack Justis tried helping and got beat up on. I don't think I have seen him post since, why should he. These people want a chat room and that is it. I am also registered. I posted the other day about some new fantastic lights good for pool tables. Nobody cared, they just want to talk their B.S. Good, it is their loss.

TomBrooklyn
10-29-2002, 11:20 PM
It shouldn't take a scientist to figure out what has happened to CCB. But apparently it takes one to predict what will happen a month ahead of time. When I read Warren's post, quoted in part below, I had an ominous feeling he was right. Six weeks later I don't think anyone will dispute it, though I am somewhat baffled by the lack of mention of it by any others. The CCB has become that other place with better graphics.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: WL (Sept. 20, 2002)::</font><hr>Hi Tom,

The CCB has no reason to try to become like RSB. The CCB has a totally different flavor.

The reasons RSB can self-moderate are several fold:

1) You can not post anonymously. You don't have to use your real name, but the IP is logged as well as a whole tracer route.

2) Spam is not tolerated. It is generally not even replied to, plus the full tracer route is there to report to their ISP. [anyone can run a traceroute if they know the IP. ed.]

3) Sites like the CCB provide a much easier route for causing trouble! Not showing the IP of the poster just made it a field day for these guys and it WILL get worse!! Guaranteed!!

4) To the people who think having their IP address posted is an invasion of privacy.... if you make phone calls harrassing people, the calls can be legally traced. If you are in a giant gathering and start screaming "fire fire fire" and people get trampled you can be charged. These are extreme examples, but it proves the point. If you REALLY think posts cannot be traced to an individual computer, test it and see? You'll lose, even with AOL!!

By removing the IP I'm getting a clear message that the CCB is trying to let you think you are "more free", while actually giving the users "less control". Y'all are falling for it. Oh well, I always have RSB and ASP!! Warren <hr></blockquote>To Warren's list I will add that even if an IP is not used to contact an ISP or bring a legal action, the elimination of a posters anonymity is usually enough to simply cause them to temper thier posts to things that they are willing to say with others knowing, or being able to find out who they are. And if it is still unclear to anyone, registering a handle is not what provides tracability, it is an IP that does that.

I will take responsibility for previously advocating this failed experiment. Now I say cut the losses and change it back. =TB=

10-29-2002, 11:21 PM
I am also a registered user and have chosen to post anonymously. I agree that the board has become a negative place. I agree that there are too many personal attacks. There are too many non-pool related posts.

I find it shocking that so many of the regulars engage the "flamers" by arguing back. If no one responds to them they go away. I have seen really negative threads come back to the top of the list after they die off and for no good reason.

I also think it is silly to get so emotional over a difference of opinion. If we were face to face we would never treat each other so badly. On CCB it is quite fine to say insulting things. The pool world is too small to think that the things we say will not eventually come back to haunt us.

I am not concerned that the powers of Billiard Digest will shut CCB down. This has probably been great inspiration for them and undoubtedly has increased subscriptions.

I have learned to ignore certain people because they are argumentative in a bad way instead of good arguers. If we all try a little harder to focus on the good threads that are good arguments and not mean arguments we will be moving in the right direction.

I'll be doing my part to make it a better forum.

Chris Cass
10-30-2002, 12:26 AM
Hi Anon,

I don't think it's such a bad place and also haven't lost too many knowledgable people here. Although the field may not contain professionals in specific areas. One may give the answers needed to help.

I think the CCB is going through some changes. I think as Winter approaches the board will settle down. True, there are some that enjoy what people call Flame Wars. I try not to get involved as much. Yes, when it hurts the people I enjoy. I just can't keep it from coming out.

True, we have lost a lot of posters to Playpool and other forums but a lot of them enjoy those forums and visit them anyway. I don't hold anything against them for seeking happiness. I think those forums have much to offer too. I happen to like Ed from Playpool. I don't post there or lurk but I have been to the site.

I don't have the answer. I know there's people here that care about shooters. That's the real reason I stay. I know when someone needs help. They'll be there to try.

A lot of the regular posters are taking atvantage of the anon posting. They feel they won't be attacted if saying something that's disagreeable to others, as much as they would if they went by name or post name, or feel they'll be treated differently in a positive way. I don't mind either way. I don't care for the threads going back to the #1 slot and like to see some of them die off. Maybe, let the original poster have the capabilities to delete the entire thread. Would be a nice option. One doesn't always need to know someone appreciates their advice nor feel it's gone unnoticed. I found that out one day. The views is what counts a lot. If 5 people seen the post. They may have helped all 5? Maybe, not but atleast someone took the time to look.

Best regards,

C.C.

10-30-2002, 12:37 AM
Hi Chris,

You said: "...I know there's people here that care about shooters...."

I agree 100%. Your recent thread "Major Slump" is a real testament to how much the people here care and will help.

But I also think there is room for concern. I hope the saying "these things too shall pass" applies here. Or as they also say, "Don't let the bastards get you down!"

bluewolf
10-30-2002, 05:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Chris Cass:</font><hr> Hi Anon,

&lt;snip&gt;
I don't care for the threads going back to the #1 slot and like to see some of them die off. Maybe, let the original poster have the capabilities to delete the entire thread. Would be a nice option.. <hr></blockquote>

I really do like this idea, Chris, or at least a time limit like a week or two. That way, people returning from vacation could respond, but really old,dead threads could be seen but not be brought back for further posting.
That way, if the person read the thread, and wanted to talk about that again, they could start new thread with a similar topic.
I also like Tom B='s suggestion to bring back isp's.

As far as RSB ASP (sp?), I did register there. I had to sign up for a google account giving my email address and a password and then picked a 'nickname' or real name. I have just gone there occasionally for info, but google has all the info it needs if a poster is really out of line.

The info is great but I have also seen some flames there that make look CCB look very polite.

bw

Ralph S.
10-30-2002, 07:20 AM
I have read the above responses posted to the original and I must say that I am in TOTAL agreement about how defamatory some of the remarks have been toward certain indidviduals. What TomBrooklyn mentioneed via another poster is a great idea and I for one, would be all for it. I have not been posting regularly like I used to due to my work schedule, and partly due to what gets posted as of late. Many quality individuals and posters have been run off by pure and simple bullying. Those that really think they are getting away with it will have a rude awakening some day, because what goes around -comes around. Well, I geuss I have said enough for now.

Ralph S.&gt;loves a good debate, but hates the childish crap goin on here lateley.

rackmup
10-30-2002, 07:26 AM
Post deleted by rackmup

10-30-2002, 10:03 AM
Hi Ken,

You said: "One solution that shouldn't be too difficult for the Webmaster to accomplish is to provide a means for anonymous posts to be displayed or not. This could be added to the list of features in the "My Home" section."

Aside from the continuing debate on anonymous posts, I do not sse this as a solution. A large number of recent flame posts are from identified members of this forum. And some members have admittedly gone to anonymous posts as a defense against the current blood bath.

While I always doubt people who claim to have inside information, I hope you are right. BD and CCB_Admin need to address these problems now! The current policies and procedures have created a monster that cannot be tamed.

Just my 2 cents.

A1

10-30-2002, 10:30 AM
"BTW...the jargon between myself and Joe Bloe was all in jest. We are both from the same city and the same poolroom. While we agree to disagree, the banter was all in fun. Right JB? You worthless 10-1."

So what you are saying is, you and your friend cooked up a contrived thread pretending not to know each other just to cause trouble. No surprise to me though, I said in the past that you post as an anonymous off and on pretending to be someone else. I don't doubt you have other screen names also, (maybe you and Joe Bloe are one and the same). I hope your defenders are reading this, what a phony and what a jerk. You have nothing to offer anybody here, you are the worst piece of dead wood on the board. I used to think you were just a fool and people took you for what you were worth, (not much), but now we know you are also a devious trouble maker. My guess is, you want the board to change to the way you would like and if you create enough trouble without anyone knowing you are doing it, it will change.

rackmup
10-30-2002, 10:54 AM
Post deleted by rackmup

rackmup
10-30-2002, 11:03 AM
Post deleted by rackmup

nAz
10-30-2002, 12:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: rackmup:</font><hr> I'm certainly no computer guru but it seems to me that:


A button that allows you to ignore posts from non-registered users should be one way to reduce the amount of back-and-forth fighting like we've seen in recent days.
Perhaps a feature that allows you to put registered users on a "black list" that keeps their posts from being viewed on your screen might help as well.


Again, is this possible? There are certainly others that know more about this than I.

Regards,

Ken (and yes, the source was reliable) <hr></blockquote>

Why do we need a Button to ignore Anons. are we not capable of ignoring them our selfs? if we read the threads in colapse mode we wont have to wait long for pages to load.

Again this place reminds me of a real pool hall you have your cry babies your loud mouths and then people like me that dont give a damn, and like a real PH i can chose to ignore people i dont care for. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif
thats it IGNORE them! walk away http://216.40.249.192/mysmilies/otn/glasses/walksmil.gif
By the way If the IPs are posted again it wouldnt matter those are not the real ones, BD web master has the real ones stored, just like they have mines. i think

eg8r
10-30-2002, 12:31 PM
Hey nony,

Maybe I am Ken also.

eg8r

10-30-2002, 12:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: nAz:</font><hr> By the way If the IPs are posted again it wouldnt matter those are not the real ones, BD web master has the real ones stored, just like they have mines. i think <hr></blockquote>

If people have ISP with dynamic IPs, or work in corporate environment with a gigantic network, or post out of a giant metropolitan library, or from net cafes and kiosks, the posting of IPs idea wouldn't work at all. Webmaster would just be spending all day deleting. Also think of the regulars here who share IPs here(there are quite a few), the AOLers(and it would come as no surprise that they wouldn't mind) and they would be painted by the same brush. Finally, didn't we all learn the lessons from the IPs witch hunts in the past?

10-30-2002, 04:27 PM
No, I know who you are.

rackmup
10-30-2002, 05:17 PM
Post deleted by rackmup

10-30-2002, 05:25 PM
A number of the most regular posters have written themselves clear off my reading list. As of right now, I am more likely to read a post from one of the anonymous posters. I'm not sure just what to make of that. How about the rest of you?

10-31-2002, 07:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Chris Cass:</font><hr> Hi Anon,

I don't think it's such a bad place and also haven't lost too many knowledgable people here. Although the field may not contain professionals in specific areas. One may give the answers needed to help.


Best regards,

C.C. <hr></blockquote>






Hi Chris, I post as Anonymous but I always put my name at the end of my post. I don't register because I just don't see the need for me as I put my name on my posts. I don't post much partly because I have trouble explainning things through a keyboard and partly because I don't know much.LOL However I do remember when I first started posting and lurking here, back then there were less posters but more quality posters. The trouble back then didn't come from a group of posters, it came by way of single posters like Terry Justis, AKA Big Roy.

I see alot of the posters from the past are not here anymore and I think that is a great loss. I wonder if they could ( the CCB ) could give us the option of viewing reruns of the old CCB instead of this new forum.

Hope you get over your slump soon /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif. Terry

Chris Cass
10-31-2002, 08:51 AM
Hi Terry,

A lot of the old posters haven't left. They just refused to post and once in awhile they'll lurk. Going through the process of registaring was a huge hassle for me as I remember. Also, some have lost the desire to even play the game. That's the part that saddens me the most.

I remember quiting this game about 6 times with yrs. in between. I came back to it. It's in my blood and it's in theirs too. They never forget.

This which has not a thing to do with this post, happened the other day. I was at the ph and this kid was playing another. The kids were both like 16 and 17 yrs. old. The one kid turns to the other and says, "I used to play this game really good when I was younger. I about died on the spot. So, my point is, the mind is never going to let you forget the game. The older you get, the better you were. LOL

PS: the slump thing. Tonight I'm going to watch Resevior Dogs and some other movies to cheer me up and bring back the killer I once was. LOL

Regards,

C.C.

10-31-2002, 09:12 AM
Chris, I quit playing for about 12 years about 4 years after I got married. I used play in the bars, I was so good I Drank for free,LOL, this meant I started closing the windows LOL. Anyway i'm all growed up now and I enjoy playing more now than I ever did. I have my own table at home so I only go out to play tournaments or if I know there is a real good player stopping by i'll try and hookup with them for a game. Good Luck in your next tournament. Terry

dave
10-31-2002, 09:24 AM
Now you've got me wondering if I'm Ken. Maybe you're Ken! Maybe we're ALL Ken? Just exactly what is Ken ? All this is beyond my ken.

10-31-2002, 01:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: rackmup:</font><hr> No...actually, we discovered after beating each other up here on the CCB that we played out of the same rooms at home in AZ. Being the adults that we are (something that you should try), we decided to bury the hatchet and cease the nonsense. This is what grown-ups do and as soon as you graduate from "Pull Ups" into real skivies, you too, will learn something about being a mature, forgiving adult.

You need to know something else my anonymous friend: Your thoughts of me, the name calling and other juvenile banterings of your post, fall on deaf ears. I am only responding to your remarks because I know this is the high point of your day, other than the time you possibly spend searching the "Greg Brady an Club" sites.

So there you have it. Your fifteen minutes of fame. You, Jimmy Baker and Tonya Harding...all relegated to your now non-existent existence. Look...the Brady Bunch is about to come on. Hurry...you wouldn't want to miss it. We know how you feel about Greg.

Regards,

Ken (another pod splitting wide open) <hr></blockquote>

Ken,

Weren't you the one who said something about fanning the flames? I just hope you realize that you are quilty of perpetuating more argument in a thread that is supposed to be offering solutions about ceasing personal argument. FYI and JMO.

Vicki

10-31-2002, 01:33 PM
"Chris, I quit playing for about 12 years about 4 years after I got married. I used play in the bars, I was so good I Drank for free,LOL, this meant I started closing the windows LOL. Anyway i'm all growed up now and I enjoy playing more now than I ever did. I have my own table at home so I only go out to play tournaments or if I know there is a real good player stopping by i'll try and hookup with them for a game. Good Luck in your next tournament. Terry "




I feel blessed I play pool. I live in a condo and for most of my friends here, the high point of the day getting the paper in the morning, or trying to find what is no TV. I have place to go and have something to every day that I love. Even for golfers or tennis players I don't think it is not as good as pool. Even if I just hang out at the poolroom it is like heaven to me. I like best the fact that all that is required to fit in in a pool room is a love for the game. We go out to eat sometimes after the place closes and if you look around the table. There is a mix of people who would never have gotten together otherwise. All ages and economic levels, moving the salt and pepper shakers, setting up shots till all hours of the morning. I don't know what life is supposed to be, but for me, it could not get any better then this. I even have this board to read. Life is good.

rackmup
10-31-2002, 01:34 PM
Post deleted by rackmup

10-31-2002, 01:47 PM
At some point someone has to take the high road. You claim to be religious, try turning the other cheek for a change. Please stop this, for yourself and everyone else. If you don't wish to read or write about pool, then seek another forum that fills your needs. But please stop trying to ruin this one. I am sick of it, as I am sure is everyone else. Also please don't just begin another fight in responding my post. I won't play your game. Please just stop.

10-31-2002, 01:56 PM
Damn, that is one of the coolest posts I have seen on this board!

Keep the faith!

Vicki
10-31-2002, 04:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: rackmup:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Vicki:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt;Ken,

Weren't you the one who said something about fanning the flames? I just hope you realize that you are quilty of perpetuating more argument in a thread that is supposed to be offering solutions about ceasing personal argument. FYI and JMO.

Vicki &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I only "fan" after I have been "flamed". No one gets to throw a free punch and not lose a few teeth in the aftermath.

Regards,

Ken <hr></blockquote>

Well, then, fan away. Your inability to just take in on the chin a little, rather than start a b1tch battle, is one of many reasons I don't read or participate as much on CCB as I used to. It is too much to try to filter out the garbage to get to the good pool-related stuff. Other than your constant come-backs to every Tom, Dick &amp; Harry who insult you I think you are an incredible asset to the board. I love your stories and your funny out-takes on pool subjects - it's just your fanning the flames and your refusal to see how it adds nothing and takes so much away from the quality of our furum that I mind. Just my opinion and I do not want to seem disrespectful. I do respect your opinions and input here.

Vicki

rackmup
10-31-2002, 05:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Vicki:</font><hr>rather than start a b1tch battle, <hr></blockquote>

Vicki,

Do me one small favor: Find one post where I started a "bitch battle". I can save you some time...it isn't out there.

As for me "taking it on the chin", how about a little experiment:

I'll refrain from posting to anything negative said about me or my friends here for one week. Let's see if the "Flame Wars" cease. If they do, great. I'll apologize to one and all and buy the first round at the next CCB get together. If they don't, I won't say "I told you so".

Deal?

Regards,

Ken