View Full Version : Archer: mandatory pushout???

04-08-2013, 01:01 PM
Got a notice from one of the PPV pool channels of a match featuring Johnny Archer and... well, someone so great I forgot already, lol! (Maybe Busty.)

Anyways, the promo stated that the match would feature something advocated by Archer, apparently-- a mandatory pushout after every break (?!?!?!).

It's supposed to ensure that both players play in every rack (it won't, at least always, btw, although it may encourage more of it), but outside that goal, I don't get it.

If I understand it correctly, either the breaker or the other guy could be looking at an open runout table with a starter ball, and then be forced to play a pushout. I find that hard to believe, and hard to think a good idea. It certainly takes away running x-packs on people, and MAY be therefore slightly a break to a player who would otherwise be run over by an opponent's stringing racks together.

But I think guys running racks is what I want to see, however unfair it may be to the other player. Creates a lot of tension when the other player may get to the table as well.

I think alternating breaks would do a better job of getting both players to the table, and let them pushout at their discretion, not make it mandatory. I don't really prefer that, either, although in short races it really is necessary.

What do you think about Johnny's pet proposal?

Rich R.
04-08-2013, 07:08 PM
I think the rule sucks and I'm really getting tired of players trying to change rules in games that have been played for many years. If they don't like the game, they should play a different game.

IMHO, the entire pool world would be better if everyone played straight pool.

WV Slim Shady
04-09-2013, 05:37 AM
Ive played johnny. Hes pretty good but likes to complain a lot when in a pool hall. He dont much like it when someone nt on tour gives him a game.

04-09-2013, 12:50 PM
I didn't think much of it at first glance either, Rich, but after having seen it last night, I think it isn't so bad.

I didn't see the whole thing in detail since I was watching the NCAAs on a slight taped delay, but this is what I gathered:

First, it was a 10-ball match, race to 21, on a 10-foot table-- with a 30 second shot clock. Call all balls, and if a called ball goes where it isn't called, the other player may take the table as it is or give back the shot. (Ok, that's weird, but sensible in a way.) If the breaker makes something on the break on a legal break, it is the breaker's option to have the opponent do the pushout, or take the pushout himself (I think I saw that once, but I'm not wholly sure).

The pushout generally involved tieing balls up for later in the rack, leaving a length of the table sliver edge of a ball for a safety attempt (10 foot length, mind you), or pushing to a jump shot of some sort.

The main thing mitigating that nuisance was that with the shot clock, nobody could think about things too long (including on the pushouts and the decision to take or give back), nobody was disadvantaged (as both people had these same rules), AND (key point here!) nobody even gave the racks a second glance (referee was racking, but still). The mandatory pushout eliminated any emphasis on a 'perfect' rack because it really obviously didn't matter.

10 ball on the break in the foot corners didn't count/got spotted back up, but in the other 4 corners it did count.

Here's my take on all these TARs and streaming matchups: this is what the state of the pool industry has adapted to, and how it's trying to stay alive with a new commercial business model. Since these are mainly one-off affairs, all kinds of unusual conditions and terms of the matchup are switched around-- using a 10 foot table, or a bar box, longish races, whatever anyone wants as a condition to play if there is enough of a demand for that person on-line.

It's a fairly pure 'give the people (close enough to) what they want' kind of deal, and it will obviously be that your mileage may vary. However, absent strong governing bodies and plentiful sanctioned events under those bodies' rules, a lot of variety in conditions and rules is to be expected.

Rich R.
04-09-2013, 05:40 PM
Phil, IIRC, most of what you mentioned, but not all, is part of the WPA rules for 10 ball. There is not much new there. The only really new thing is the automatic push after the break. I don't really like it but, as always, in a one off event all rules are subject to negotiation.

IMHO, if Johnny Archer is pushing for a rule change, he definitely believes it will give him an advantage.

04-12-2013, 12:22 PM
What is funny is that in the prior similarly named 'Showdown' event just a few weeks back, featuring Jayson Shaw as well, the promo material states as selling points "NO SHOT CLOCK!!" and "NO MANDATORY PUSHOUTS!!," suggesting that leaving those rule changes out allows the players to play more naturally. LOL!

I didn't even notice it when first seeing the promotional e-mail, but looking back on it now, it really sticks out.