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ccboard_admin_back
11-01-2002, 03:20 PM
If you have not read our statement regarding the recent posts <a target="_blank" href=http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/comments.htm>read this</a> first.

We will be using this forum for suggestions on how to encourage civil
discussion on the CCB. Below are some links to past ideas that have
been suggested in this forum.

<a target="_blank" href=http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccbboard&amp;Number=36943&amp;page =0&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=7&amp;o=0&amp;fpart=>Timefor CCB forum changes</a>


<a target="_blank" href=http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccbboard&amp;Number=42667&amp;page =0&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=7&amp;o=31&amp;fpart=>ATTN. CCBADMINISTRATION &amp; CCB FAMILY</a>

We are in the process of upgrading the forum, and will keep you updated on its progress.

We thank your patience and understanding.

beerwolf
11-01-2002, 07:56 PM
The first thing I would do is get rid of the top ten hall of shame. You have some worthless posters whose only purpose in life seems to be progressing higher on the list. Eliminate the cumulative number and go to a weekly or monthly list if you must. I know the only time I made the top ten on the old board I realized that it was time to shut up.
Same thing for the most active threads. There is no purpose served by this list. We see the same old threads brought to the top over and over when there is nothing more that might be related to the topic that can possibly be said.
BW

11-01-2002, 08:17 PM
I don't know of any way to make people behave, unless you are going to intercept and pass judgment on every post prior to letting it appear on the forum. The reality will probably turn out to be that we will encounter posters who have nothing against ruining the forum for all. I don't have much confidence in the good intentions of everyone.

Mechanically, perhaps a thread could be programmed to accept no more than, for instance, twenty posts before self-destructing permanently. The topic can always be presented again - this happens all the time - but the thread itself would be prevented from dragging on too long or being returned to the current screen.

beerwolf
11-01-2002, 08:51 PM
I suggest that Anonymous be banned from the board. She has been the cause of considerable conflict on the board. Eliminate the default screen name and make everyone at least type something in before a post is accepted.

Also bring back IP numbers. I know that most of them trace to AOL but they at least give some information about a poster. Just because one person insisted that he could identify everyone by the numbers is no reason to have eliminated them.
BW

stickman
11-01-2002, 09:18 PM
I favor registration being required to post. I have served as a moderator on a large forum where this was done, and we didn't encounter nearly the problems I see here. You could also appoint a few of the more mature regulars as moderators and allow them the ability to close threads, delete, and even boot repeat offenders off. This would be a no cost and effective way for you to have monitoring of the site nearly all the time, without the webmaster having to be burdened with it. I have seen these suggestions work first hand in a similar environment. (One with about 14,000 registered members the last time I looked) Those that oppose registration are just as anonomous with a made up nickname as they are posting anonomously. The only difference is that if they are offenders, they are more quickly identified. The Ip's could be made available to the moderators, and not necessarily need to be posted.

Troy
11-01-2002, 09:26 PM
My suggestions are ::

1.. Require that every poster be registered. Personal info such as e-mail address can be blocked from view, but the Webmaster must have access to a valid e-mail address, name, etc.

2.. One incidence of profanity gets a warning. The second incidence bans the poster by having the registration deleted. (Yes, that person could re-register, but that should necessitate a new e-mail address, etc., that could easily be verified by the Webmaster.

If you don't know what profanity is, try this simple test --
Would you use that language when communicating with your Mother, Grandmother or 12 year old Daughter ???

3.. Alter the Board format slightly so that posts are in chronological order based on the time/date of the FIRST entry of the thread. (Most recent on top.) This would prevent old threads from coming back to the top and would also make it much easier for users to locate a specific thread.

4.. Severe incidence of "flaming" should be deleted in its entirety. Not just the single "flame" post, but the entire thread.

Troy...~~~ Welcomes some changes..... /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

cueball1950
11-01-2002, 10:33 PM
i agree with all the above responses. i would also make everyone post a name or atleast something. Then if they cause a disruption on the board you could block them from posting further. I realize you take someone's email address when they sign up but alot of people i know have more than 1 email address. I must admit that i to have been guilty of a personal attack on here and for that i apologize for. the worst thing that could happen would be for the board to shut down and give the trouble makers their way. it seems that that is all they are looking for. I recently attended the CCB tournament in Virginia and i must say that you would never meet so many people anywhere with more of a passion for the game. So please come up with a viable solution and do not shut down the board.....mike

TomBrooklyn
11-01-2002, 10:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: beerwolf:</font><hr>1) The first thing I would do is get rid of the top ten hall of shame. Eliminate the cumulative number and go to a weekly or monthly list. I know the only time I made the top ten on the old board I realized that it was time to shut up.
2)Same thing for the most active threads. There is no purpose served by this list.<hr></blockquote>Top Ten Posters
Beerwolf, despite being drunk, is right on about the Top Ten Hall Of Shame. If implimented to show the persons who made the most posts recently, say in the last 300 or 500; it becomes a useful indicator to highlight who has probably been blathering too much, although sometimes it just means that a person has been contributing a lot of useful information to the board of late, in which case no one will mind.

The overall number of posts a person has made over the life of the board is an interesting bit of trivia, but not nearly as useful on an ongoing basis.

Most Active Threads
Beerwolf's second suggestion proves that every drinker reaches a point where they can no longer think clearly. The Most Active Threads is a neat ever-changing list that shows the all-time favorite topics of those in the CCB Community. It is an accurate reflection of the social, recreational, and general and specific interests of those that play pool.

There are always some people who won't like what the most popular topics are. For instance, I am personally flabbergasted that more people are interested in discussing sexy WPBA vixens than in considering statistics, probability, and how IQ relates to understanding the physics and geometry of the game. However, my personal predjudices are unimportant compared to knowing where the interests of most pool players lie, and the usefulness of that data for marketing and sales purposes.

=TB=

TomBrooklyn
11-01-2002, 11:19 PM
While this board has always possessed a certain amount of anonymity to those that desired it, it is without doubt that the recent decision to remove IP Addresses, which I previously supported, has created a level of anonymity that's resulted in an outpouring of obnoxious vitriol perpetrated by those whose baser instincts sometimes dominate their higher aspirations.

It is unquestioned by all except those who revel in chaos that removing some of this anonymity would result in a better board. The only question is how should this change be effected: registration or show IP addresses, or both. I would advocate simply going back to the IP addy system at this time.

=TB=

Chris Cass
11-02-2002, 12:31 AM
Dear Sir or Maddam,

You have access to the IP adresses and know or can find out who the flame posters are. I suggest you just block them from posting. Their only purpose in life is to cause problems and have nothing to do with pool.

Make the board members registar and make them accountable for what they say.

Regards,

C.C.

CarolNYC
11-02-2002, 05:00 AM
Dear CCboard Administration,
"LOCK" a post so it can no longer be responded to or quoted,just viewed.If someone wants to respond to it, they MUST start a new post and if its insulting, the majority will just disregard it.
Possibly erase ALL posts and start fresh.
Registered posters must register from a working e-mail address,that only you know,so if defamatory remarks are made,you can be notified and you alone can contact this person.
Thank you,
Carol

Gayle in MD
11-02-2002, 06:20 AM
Dear CCB ADMINISTRATION,
I appreciate your response to our recent unpleasant posters. My suggestion is that you delete immediately slanderous or vulgar posts, along with the response thread. If that process is more demanding than you have manpower to oversee regularly, I sugest that several regular posters of your choice be given the opportunity to temporarily block those posts until such time as you can read them for review and determine their compliance to the rules of this forum.
All posters should be required to use some type of identification. Posters who are constantly argumentative, vulgar or slanderous toward others, should be banned.
I enjoy the forum, and I am most appreciative of your attention to this problem. BTW, when I click on the links below, they do not bring up the entitled posts designated. One brings up a post entitled Grady Mathews, the other brings up a post about golf.
Thanking you in advance,
Gayle in Md.

11-02-2002, 06:21 AM
I completely support your efforts to make the CCB a more civilized place to be. I support registration of all users and I hope you will have the ability to ban posters that abuse the privileges of the board.
Please take any measures necessary to make the CCB better, but please do not close it down. There is a lot of knowledge to be had here and, by making the board better, we may attract some posters who have left, to come back.
I believe this board is a gold mine of information for the pool community and the industry as a whole.
Rich R.

Rich R.
11-02-2002, 06:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> I completely support your efforts to make the CCB a more civilized place to be. I support registration of all users and I hope you will have the ability to ban posters that abuse the privileges of the board.
Please take any measures necessary to make the CCB better, but please do not close it down. There is a lot of knowledge to be had here and, by making the board better, we may attract some posters who have left, to come back.
I believe this board is a gold mine of information for the pool community and the industry as a whole.
Rich R. <hr></blockquote>
This was posted by me.
Probably the wrong thread to forget to login in on. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif
Rich R.

TomBrooklyn
11-02-2002, 06:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Troy:</font><hr> If you don't know what profanity is, try this simple test --
Would you use that language when communicating with your Mother, Grandmother or 12 year old Daughter ???<hr></blockquote>Troy, your fond of making that statement. I've seen you make it a number of times. While it would have made sense to me some years ago, it doesn't make any sense to me now. I've personally witnessed a number of children 12 yrs old and younger dealing with their parents and grandparents and using most imaginable curse words back and forth. =Tom=

TomBrooklyn
11-02-2002, 06:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: CarolNYC:</font><hr>"LOCK" a post so it can no longer be responded to or quoted,just viewed.If someone wants to respond to it, they MUST start a new post <hr></blockquote>Why? What is the purpose of that? Why have the information in two threads when it could be in one? =Tom=

bluewolf
11-02-2002, 08:28 AM
I agree with almost all of the above suggestions but will add a voice here.
1)Mandatory registration
2)Not as concerned about profanity as I am with personal attacks and slander. Suggest such posters be given a warning, be put on read only for a week. If they are again slanderous or personally attacking,then banned for good.
3)anonymous goes to read only.
4)ditch top ten posters and categories eliminating banallities to achieve a certain level.
5)list posters and % by the week
6)Old threads cannot be brought up after two weeks. after that read only.
7)old threads cannot be brought up by empty posts. seen this happen several times.
8)if a post which started the thread is deemed unsatisfactory ie abusive vulgar etc, the whole thread is deleted, not just that one post.
9)it is my opinion that there are those who have been banned here or who left and either hate the forum or individials who would like nothing less than to destroy this forum.this is why blocking anons from posting is in my opinion crucial.
10) i like the idea of having 2-3 people to help with the moderation. we need nominations and a vote. i nominate Lorri, Tom in Cincy and either Chris Cass or Tom in Brookland. These folks have been here along time and seem to be level headed.

Please please do not close the forum. Once you compile your suggestions and come up with the changes, lets see if that is enough. If, not, then let us go back to the drawing board again.

Billiards Digest has been very kind to give us this forum.I know I have learned a lot about pool here as have others. Also good clean pool friendships have been made.

One observation. When conflicts arise between registered members, these are usually resolved. In the cases where they werent, someone left. It is with a certain few anons that keep stirring up things after we have come to peace and moved past the issue that is causing much of the problem imo.

just my .02

Bluewolf

rackmup
11-02-2002, 09:38 AM
A few suggestions that I would like to see:

<ul type="square"> Mandatory registration with a valid, verifiable email address. Use whatever name you like to register but YOU MUST REGISTER.
Humor is fine. Quick wit allowable also but when a post turns to ANY form of name-calling, sexual preference inuendo, threats of violence, or vulgar language (even if disguised by creative usage of other symbols i.e. a$$h01e), should result in the post being deleted and the poster warned or banned.
A strong suggestion that thread topics be maintained. If you have a new topic, don't start it in the middle of an existing, non-related thread.
A more visible, active presence of CCB_Admin on the board. If the troublemakers know you're watching, perhaps they will be less prone to their antics of late.
[/list]

I would hate to see this forum taken down. There are a lot of good people here. It affords us the opportunities to form real friendships (just look at the CCB contingent at the US OPEN.) The actions of recent anonymous postings are from those whose sole intent is to disrupt and insult others.

It seems the victims of these attacks are those pool players, who while they have a tremendous love of the game, use this forum for other topics as well. What is wrong with sharing a little humor, talk of family and friends or a vacation tidbit? It seems almost as if "jealousy" plays a part in "firing up" these "sneak attack" style posts from anonymous predators.

I appreciate the time that must be expended in maintaining such a forum. I pray that in your infinite wisdom, the forum will see some of the many listed suggestions implemented rather than closing the board altogether.

Sincerely,

Ken Kingan aka "rackmup"

Troy
11-02-2002, 09:53 AM
Maybe so Tom, but I find it much better than no test at all. Also, why let those with zero class of the hook.

Troy

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: TomBrooklyn:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Troy:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; If you don't know what profanity is, try this simple test --
Would you use that language when communicating with your Mother, Grandmother or 12 year old Daughter ???&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Troy, your fond of making that statement. I've seen you make it a number of times. While it would have made sense to me some years ago, it doesn't make any sense to me now. I've personally witnessed a number of children 12 yrs old and younger dealing with their parents and grandparents and using most imaginable curse words back and forth. =Tom= <hr></blockquote>

11-02-2002, 09:58 AM
The single most problem is the way you have it set up to bring back entire threads, it makes the board almost impossible to use at times and serves no purpose. Also all persons wanting to post must in some way register and provide personal information (only to you) to use the board. The problems with people flaming I believe has been a little over stated. It is isolated and could be easily dealt with now, without any changes, just delete them and that is that. You may want to have a parallel forum set up like you have now for this forum. One for the Bs and chat stuff and one for the real hard core stuff. I don't know what the original intent for the forum was. Whether as a forum for players and people in the industry to share ideas as well as discuss pool, announce tournaments, post results and so forth or just a chat room. It is now just a chat room and serves little value except to those who like that sort of thing. You have what could be an amazing thing here if done right.

Ross
11-02-2002, 10:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: stickman:</font><hr> I favor registration being required to post. I have served as a moderator on a large forum where this was done, and we didn't encounter nearly the problems I see here. You could also appoint a few of the more mature regulars as moderators and allow them the ability to close threads, delete, and even boot repeat offenders off. This would be a no cost and effective way for you to have monitoring of the site nearly all the time, without the webmaster having to be burdened with it. I have seen these suggestions work first hand in a similar environment. (One with about 14,000 registered members the last time I looked) Those that oppose registration are just as anonomous with a made up nickname as they are posting anonomously. The only difference is that if they are offenders, they are more quickly identified. The Ip's could be made available to the moderators, and not necessarily need to be posted. <hr></blockquote>

I agree 100% with Stickman's suggestions. CCB's problems are not unique, so why should CCB try to re-invent the wheel? Just look at what has worked well on other boards.


One thing that has been learned is that you can't just ASK people to post responsibly. There will always be trolls who enjoy the chaos. So you must require registration. For example, I also post on another very large board (www.bigsoccer.com, 22,775 members) which requires registration (you are still anonymous) and has volunteer moderators. It works very well. They use "old hands" as volunteer moderators. Here is how they describe it:

"Moderators oversee specific forums. They generally have the ability to edit and delete posts, move threads, and perform other manipulations. Becoming a moderator for a specific forum is usually rewarded to users who are particularly helpful and knowledgable in the subject of the forum they are moderating."


The moderators are NOT heavy handed and they lean in the direction of restraint. (You can still call each other's ideas clueless or idiotic, but you don't make fun of physical handicaps, make racist remarks, etc.) If the moderators become too active, members complain, and if it gets bad enough, the moderator is replaced with someone who does show restraint. You get a warning if you step over the line in terms of viscious personal attacks. If you get a warning, a yellow card icon appears next to your screen name. If you persist you get kicked off. Problem solved.

Moderators also can close down threads that are perpetuated by endless bickering between members.

By the way, here is how they handle profanity:

"Certain words may have been censored by the administrator. If your posts contain any censored words, they will be blanked-out like this: ************. The same words are censored for all users, and censoring is done by a computer simply searching and replacing words. It is in no way 'intelligent'."


So registration and volunteer moderators are my suggestions. They've worked elsewhere and I see no reason they wouldn't work here as well.

rackmup
11-02-2002, 10:04 AM
It has been suggested before and the names suggested turned it down if my memory serves me. It is a touchy subject when you appoint a participant in the forum, to have ruling power over the forum.
Think about this a minute...someone posts a negative response to something that Lorri has posted. Later in the thread, someone posts another response that isn't in line with Lorri's original post and even further down the line, someone posts a vulgarity. So now Lorri deletes the post, opening up the avenue for accusations from others that she deleted the post "simply because I didn't agree with her."

Ken (I hope this is worded better since I seemed to have struck a nerve with the unknown poster in the thread below. No harm, No foul.)

11-02-2002, 10:20 AM
They set up a forum to try to fix the problems, and your only input is to attack another's ideas. Unbelievable

Wally_in_Cincy
11-02-2002, 10:21 AM
I'm sure Luby doesn't want to hire a full-time babysitter for this board, so the solution to that is to appoint 3 or 4 level-headed moderators. You know who they are. They could even be voted for in private messages to ccb admin.

If a moderator oversteps his/her authority they can always be warned or replaced.

At the Matchroom Sports forum registration is required and everyone there is extremely polite, however, I don't think anonymous posts should be banned at the CCB at this time. There are many anonymi who give good info but who also value their privacy. If the defamation continues, then registration may be required, but try it one step at a time.

An absolute necessity is the ability to lock old threads. Too many valuable new posts get lost due to the old, long threads popping back up.

Thanks for your efforts to improve the forum. I believe the changes you make will encourage the return of some valuable posters who have left the CCB.

rackmup
11-02-2002, 10:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: anonymous:</font><hr>It is now just a chat room and serves little value except to those who like that sort of thing. You have what could be an amazing thing here if done right.<hr></blockquote>

While I'll agree that this forum might be more "chatty" than the others (RSB, AZB and Playpool.com), it is that because that is what the MAJORITY of posters have made it. As in most any instance, that ruling majority has set the standard for the board.

I agree that two different forums would be ideal but as we have been told time-and-time again by ccb_admin, their manpower is minimal for this board so imagine the obstacle they face if they have two to watch over.

Mandatory registration of posters with a valid email address will cut down on the minimal attack-style posts but will not change what this forum has become-a place for friends to gather and chat about anything their hearts desire...but all drawn to this place by the mutual love of the game.

Ken

Tom_In_Cincy
11-02-2002, 10:25 AM
1. Appoint at least 5 admins to monitor posts for non-compliance with CCB Board rules. Posts will be deleted if any 3 of the 5 Admins agree the posts do not abide by the Board's rules.

2. Registration should not be mandatory, but there should be a way to identify posters that abuse the rules, and make it easy to report them to their ISP for action.

3. Achieve threads that are over 30 days old. Lock them down so that no replies can bring them back to current status. If someone wants to post additional comments about a thread that is 30 days old, they can start a new thread and reference the achieved postings.

4. Offer a chat room. Let the chatters have a place to go to keep the regular forum from being cluttered with chat room replies to posts.

5. If BD decides to shutdown CCB, I would understand, and would support your decision. This forum has been too diluted with non-pool related discussions. I have been one of the abusers and apologize.

6. I would hate to see this forum shutdown, but it wouldn't keep me from posting in the other BBS offered by other pool sites. BD has been very generous offering this forum and even upgrading it to the new version in Feb. 2002. I have been to the INFOPOP website and have seen the new versions offered, they look very good and I like the new offerings. I know this new BBS will be even better, and I also know that it will cost BD more to get it. I hope CCB posters can come up with the best changes possible to continue this great forum.

7. It would be nice if there were a way to provide the CCB Admin with a feedback for a "non-compliant to the CCB Rules" post, like Yahoo and AOL have a mechnaism in place to do this.

8. Read only for Anons. If they want to post, then they sould register. I hope it doesn't come to this, but I can see where it would keep "reactionary" posts from popping up.

Thanks for the opportunity to let CCB posters contribute offerings of ideas to make this a better place

9 Ball Girl
11-02-2002, 10:27 AM
I don't know where to start here but here goes anyway:

First, as far as the Top 10 goes, leave that be. The Top 10 is just that. The threads that have the most hits. Big Deal. If someone doesn't want to know what the Top 10 is then don't go there and see who the Top 10 are and then open up the threads to read them. I don't understand what is so hard about not doing this. I don't have to go out and purchase the Top 10 songs in the country just because they are, right? People complain about the Top 10 yet they contribute to that thread. Here, the Top 10 threads fall into that category when the posters constantly post to that particular thread. Posters complain about them, yet they're the ones contributed to the thread complaining about them! If a thread is way too long, then view the page in Collapsed mode. That's why the feature is there.

DO NOT BAN ANONYMOUS! There are Pros out there that contribute a lot of helpful tidbits here and understandably prefer their anonymity. And, I DO NOT think that the problem lies in the Anonymous posters. It's the regular posters that keep bringing up the "flamed" posts. An anonymous posts a negative thread, and then you have all of the regulars start going back and forth making the thread longer than needed.

Bringing back the IPs does not help. A lot of us do not have static IP addresses. They constantly change. Back when the IP addresses were shown, a regular poster accused Fran (I hate to bring her up again) of being a flaming Anonymous poster because they shared the same IP address. And that went on to a lot of back and forth from the regular posters--again--only to learn that they were not the same.

Moderators. If you have to choose Moderators, IMO, I prefer the CCB Admin. Not regular posters here. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and the thought of having someone delete a post or thread because they feel is not right sucks. Again, ignore what you don't like. Don't respond to something and make it longer than what it needs to be. Here in NY, we have a lot of people that ask for money on the subways, streets, etc. We don't like them. And we ignore them.

11-02-2002, 10:48 AM
Lighten up pal...a few others agree with Ken on this one:

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: 9ballgirl:</font><hr>Moderators. If you have to choose Moderators, IMO, I prefer the CCB Admin. Not regular posters here. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and the thought of having someone delete a post or thread because they feel is not right sucks. Again, ignore what you don't like.<hr></blockquote>

from a touring Professional, who posts here under anonymous but will register if that is what the CCB wants. Hell...I played in the US Open even though some didn't want me to so I guess I can register here under a fake name. I met 9ballgirl too, she is a cutie.

11-02-2002, 11:11 AM
Then let him post it as an opinion or idea, instead of framing it as an attack on another's ideas and calling them foolish. The administrators will sort out what they think are the best ideas should they choose to use them. They don't need him to do it for them. I in fact agree with you and him, it is the job of the owners of the board and not a kangaroo court.

11-02-2002, 11:32 AM
Here we go again. Some of the worst offenders are now bickering on this suggestion thread! I suspect they will always be with us. I would hate not to have this forum, but Lord!, if you shut it down we will know why.

11-02-2002, 11:43 AM
It can meet everyone's needs equally with no problem. I like the stuff you create, I think it is cool to see pictures of the other people, hear about them and also discuses pool. But I don't like meanness. Total registration is the only answer. I once worked for a poolroom where you had to give your drivers license or some identification to check out the ball. When I started I asked the owner was he afraid they would steal the balls or something? He said it was his experience that if someone was not anonymous, they think twice about what they do because they are accountable. Years later in my own poolroom one night I was having trouble a guy and it was bothering the other customers. I saw the car he had driven up in. I had my wife go out and take his license number down and put it behind the bar. He saw this and came over to ask why we had done this. I just said "I thought I might need it." He went back to his table and I swear to God never caused any more problem. It is human nature, no one would ever say to your face what they would say behind your back. Not because they are afraid they will get beat up or anything, they just won't do it. Dump anonymous posting and you will see most problems end. It is just the best policy in my opinion.

Troy
11-02-2002, 12:07 PM
Regarding the argument that mandatory Registration may cause some Pro Players to cease posting ---

Any Pro Player wishing to post could easily register with an alias. Only CCB Admin would know their e-mail address/ISP.

Troy...~~~ Could be Troy Frank, but obviously isn't... /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Ross
11-02-2002, 12:14 PM
Several posters seem to still think requiring registration would prevent people from posting anonymously here. That is NOT the case. Just pick whatever screen name you want, and no one need ever know who you are, where you live, or anything about you. Pros who don't want to be identified will not have to identify themselves. All they have to do is give a screenname and a valid e-mail address that would be only available to the CCBAdmin. What regisration does do is keep track of which posts are by the same poster. So if someone does abuse the privilege (anonymously or not) they can be removed.

Ross
11-02-2002, 12:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr> I don't know where to start here but here goes anyway:

First, as far as the Top 10 goes, leave that be. The Top 10 is just that. The threads that have the most hits. Big Deal. If someone doesn't want to know what the Top 10 is then don't go there and see who the Top 10 are and then open up the threads to read them. I don't understand what is so hard about not doing this. I don't have to go out and purchase the Top 10 songs in the country just because they are, right? People complain about the Top 10 yet they contribute to that thread. Here, the Top 10 threads fall into that category when the posters constantly post to that particular thread. Posters complain about them, yet they're the ones contributed to the thread complaining about them! If a thread is way too long, then view the page in Collapsed mode. That's why the feature is there.
<hr></blockquote>
I agree.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr>
DO NOT BAN ANONYMOUS! There are Pros out there that contribute a lot of helpful tidbits here and understandably prefer their anonymity. And, I DO NOT think that the problem lies in the Anonymous posters. It's the regular posters that keep bringing up the "flamed" posts. An anonymous posts a negative thread, and then you have all of the regulars start going back and forth making the thread longer than needed.
<hr></blockquote>
Requiring registration would not prevent anyone from being anonymous. Also, I do not agree that problem is with just the regular posters. Many of the most offensive posts have been posted by "Anonymous" trolls. Also, while asking people to not respond to trolls is a nice idea, I've never seen it work. Most posters will listen to such good advice, but some won't so the problem will continue. Remember that some posters whole goal is to create a firestorm. Telling them to be considerate is not going to work.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr>
Bringing back the IPs does not help. A lot of us do not have static IP addresses. They constantly change. Back when the IP addresses were shown, a regular poster accused Fran (I hate to bring her up again) of being a flaming Anonymous poster because they shared the same IP address. And that went on to a lot of back and forth from the regular posters--again--only to learn that they were not the same.
<hr></blockquote>
I agree. Showing IP's does not solve the problem.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr>
Moderators. If you have to choose Moderators, IMO, I prefer the CCB Admin. Not regular posters here. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and the thought of having someone delete a post or thread because they feel is not right sucks. Again, ignore what you don't like. Don't respond to something and make it longer than what it needs to be. Here in NY, we have a lot of people that ask for money on the subways, streets, etc. We don't like them. And we ignore them.
<hr></blockquote>
Moderators would NOT remove posts because they don't like the opinion expressed or because they disagreed. If they did, most of us would raise holy hell, and the moderator would be replaced. What they would do is enforce the current rules of the board. Patently offensive posts of a personal nature they are way over the top would be dealt with. After all that is the problem that we are trying to address. And I don't think the CCBadmin would have time to do this task.

I understand the worry that there will be a Big Brother atmosphere created and that you won't feel free to express yourself here. But it has been my experience from other excellent forums that this does not occur. Instead, the opposite occurs. The forums tend to get better, with more ideas expressed freely, because you don't have to worry about an a**hole attacking you personally just for kicks.

On occasion, I have seen a moderator overstep their role and become too controlling. In my experience, this brings up a rash of complaints from the regular posters, and the moderator has lightened up or been replaced.
Good moderators usually just post a friendly reminder to a poster who is pushing the limits on personal attacks, without taking any action. This works except with posters hellbent on attacking people repeatedly, and it is in those cases that the moderator deletes the post or shuts down the thread, as they should.

Just my opinions, of course!

bluewolf
11-02-2002, 12:59 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: rackmup:</font><hr> It has been suggested before and the names suggested turned it down if my memory serves me. It is a touchy subject when you appoint a participant in the forum, to have ruling power over the forum.
Think about this a minute...someone posts a negative response to something that Lorri has posted. Later in the thread, someone posts another response that isn't in line with Lorri's original post and even further down the line, someone posts a vulgarity. So now Lorri deletes the post, opening up the avenue for accusations from others that she deleted the post "simply because I didn't agree with her."

Ken (I hope this is worded better since I seemed to have struck a nerve with the unknown poster in the thread below. No harm, No foul.) <hr></blockquote>

I have seen forums who used volunteer moderators too. They were nominated and elected by the members for a specific period of time. During that time, the person acts like a chairman in being level headed and neutral. For this to work,the persons should be unbiased and not show favoratism towards people they like, but apply the same rules to every one..The persons elected imo should be knowlegeable about pool and someone who has been a ccber for awhile so that the persons have a since of history and tradition of the board. I do not think it should be just one person. I think a panel of three. An objectionabe post could be put on 'hold' in the case that the other two are unavailable at the time. Then the three get together online and decide together what is to be done. That eliminates racckmups scenario from happening imo.

moderation does open up its own can of worms and most groups i have been on, did what this one did, waited until something had to be done. so when a forum gets so bad, that moderation is necessary, there are going to be some pros and cons with it. it is life, people and the internet.

Bluewolf

bluewolf
11-02-2002, 01:22 PM
While I disaggree with 9ballgirl about the top ten issue, I dont think this is our most important issue.The most important think here facing this forum,imo,is for the ccb admin and/or designees to be able to delete offensive posts/threads.

This is really a brainstorming session so that the ccbadmin can make the best decisions to make this a better forum. Stating differences in opinion is part of what goes on in brainstorming sessions among professionals. Attacking others for their ideas is neither efficient nor beneficial imo.

Bluewolf

Karatemom
11-02-2002, 04:37 PM
Although I am relatively new to this board, the people that I have met from the CCB are the reason that I got back in the game. Here are my suggestions:

1. I agree with most of what everyone else has been offering.

a. Registration must be required with a valid email address. Nowhere does it say that you must use your real name for a screen name. Bringing back IP's won't do any real good, since everyone here knows that they are seen at the admin level anyway.

b. I agree with anonymous posts being eliminated. You must be a registered member to be able to post here. Anonymous' should be able to read posts only.

c. Posts that are 2-3 weeks old, without anything new added, should be moved to the archives, or possibly even delete some of the archives for storage space.

d. A chat room idea is a good one. There are alot of people here that consider themselves friends, even if they've never met. A chat room would cut down on some of the NPR posts.

Although I do not have a lot to offer the people of the CCB, I do enjoy reading informative posts and receiving PM's from friends. If there is a person whose posts are usually off-colored, I ignore it. If there is a post that I find offensive, which have been many lately, I choose not to respond; why add fuel to the fire?

It is your decision in the end, how and what to change. I don't believe ending the CCB is the right thing to do. Unfortunately, everyone has to "roll with the changes". /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

I appreciate the opportunity to speak my mind.

Heide

11-02-2002, 05:34 PM
having been here since almost the beginning, it's clear that b.d. has never really decided what it wants this thing to be. the niche is probably "expert forum".

1. charge a fee, payable by credit card only.($1 would be fine). fee waived for b.d. subscribers, and members of the industry at the discretion of b.d.

2. encourage the regular columnists to stop by. since the fee and registration blew off the anon-flamers they will be less hesitant and will really enjoy the feedback.

promote the board membership as a perk with a subscription.

3. put some energy into event coverage.

in my opinion, this thing grew by establishing itself as an intelligent alternative to the other boards or newsgroups but has suffered from it's own success by attracting too many people who neither know nor want to learn.

if you're not going to make this thing have a market-viable purpose then i suggest you pull the plug. just remember that in a few years there will be very few dead tree publications left as the production costs continue to grow and the content competition from the net increases. playing cat and mouse games with children and e-mail adresses will not cure the problem. unless or until you get a credit card number you're not going to force them out and till you force them out the experts will continue to refuse to participate.

dan

Mr Ingrate
11-02-2002, 05:59 PM
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: ccboard_admin:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; If you have not read our statement regarding the recent posts <a target="_blank" href=http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/comments.htm>read this</a> first.

We will be using this forum for suggestions on how to encourage civil
discussion on the CCB. Below are some links to past ideas that have
been suggested in this forum.

<a target="_blank" href=http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccbboard&amp;Number=6943&amp;page= 0&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=7&amp;o=0&amp;fpart=>Timefor CCB forum changes</a>


<a target="_blank" href=http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccbboard&amp;Number=2667&amp;page= 0&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=7&amp;o=31&amp;fpart=>ATTN. CCBADMINISTRATION &amp; CCB FAMILY</a>

We are in the process of upgrading the forum, and will keep you updated on its progress.

We thank your patience and understanding.
&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, I followed your links to past ideas for change. The first one gave me a posting entitled "Golf Channel Stats Except for Pool" and the second one "For Grady Mathews". No doubt you had something else in mind - perhaps you should edit your message and test your links?

I say, leave the board alone, this is not some Church or fundamentalist organization that needs a set of rigid guidelines.

People leave the board all the time. The main reason is NOT a lack of courtesy, in my opinion. It is a lack of new and interesting topics. I think old timers, at least those of us who still retain a little long term memory, will agree that most informative threads have been done to death. The red/blue/magnetic circle/dot cue ball has been done many times, even prior to the "new" board.

Or, maybe some of us are just old and tired and find the unbelievable number of "Chatty Kathy" posts vexing to the soul. Anyway I generally find the board boring.

But, I do have a suggestion. Maybe it is time to break the board into topics or groups. For those of you who like Rackmup's humor, why not a rackmup corner where he can continue marketing his "Martha Stewart" line of products. You could find bluewolf in "The Wolfpack's Den" (one could hope she would stay there) and all flaming posts could be assigned to the "Inflammatory Index".

I have no problem with a few board member/moderators assigning a post to a category as long as I don't have to be one of them.

Censorship - No, Segmentation - Yes!

P.S. We would all like to return to those gentle days of yesteryear when information abounded and 12 year old children were rare. If memory serves me it was a time when BD largely ignored what used to be called "The Cue Chalk Board".

P.P.S. You still have not told me who was awarded the "Beautiful Lucasi Cue" you were going to give to some lucky contributor the last time you called for suggestions to the new website and board. George Fels assured me that BD wouldn't welsh, but to date no announcement has been made. After taking me to task lo these many months, nay years, ago Kirsten assured me she would find out and let me know. Nothing yet.

11-02-2002, 06:31 PM
Make it that "Anonymous" people will no longer be able to post. They will be able to read any posts CCB, but if they want to respond they must register and do post under an identifiable username. It seems like some "Anonymous" say things they would otherwise NOT say if they were some how indentified.

Thanks,
Jim

JoePickens
11-02-2002, 06:39 PM
I don't have anything new to add other than to say that I use to visit this site each day and many times more than once a day just to read the posts. Now I don't drop by nearly as often as I once did because I'm sick of reading all the negative things that seem to find its why into every thread.

cheesemouse
11-02-2002, 06:56 PM
&lt; Make Anon's read only, register to post
&lt; A side instant chat room
&lt; "The Question of the Week" Put up by the BD Management with a compilation printed in your magazine.

bluewolf
11-02-2002, 07:35 PM
One more thing. I would like to see the thread I started called 'going away' deleted in all of its entirety. Although it did not start out with the intent to flame, many unkind,cruel and personally insulting things were said during the course of that thread by myself and others. It is a good example of what is bad for the forum.

contritely,

bw

Jay M
11-02-2002, 07:37 PM
Hi,
As both a semi-pro player and as a published web programmer, I would make the following suggestions:

1) Use multiple boards. Make the main one registered only and the rest open access.

2) Allow moderators, but monitor them closely for personal prejudices.

3) I play various online games and the MMORPG's tend to attract a huge number of "griefers", people that don't care about anyone but themselves and their desire to have fun, even if it hurts another. The message boards for those forums have come up with some very valid solutions to the problems that you are facing now. Rather than reinventing the wheel, why not use their solutions? Here's a very good example for you:

http://pub106.ezboard.com/bpalomides

Actually, the more I think about it, is it really necessary to maintain your board internally? Take a look at EZBoard's options and features, they include everything that everyone is requesting and allow you to brand it however you'd like. The EZBoard system is free if you don't mind them putting ads up, or, for a small amount (I think it's $150 a year), you can do what you'd like with it. I'd highly recommend taking a look at what they do and learning from it or just using their service to handle your overhead.

My suggestions for the topics would be:

Pool Related - only pool related posts, registration required, moderated

Friends and Family - Posts that are not pool related, but may be of interest, registration required, moderated

General Discussion - Open discussion, anon allowed, moderated

Rants and Raves - Open discussion, anon allowed, not moderated.



These are the guidelines I'd use to moderate the forum:

If a post is totally inappropriate, delete it.

Use the word filters to automatically remove profanity

If a valid post devolves into an argument, move it into Rants or make a separate category specifically for these posts. This keeps the post around, but moves it out of the main discussion areas.

Just my 2 cents

Jay M

TalismanTony
11-02-2002, 08:40 PM
I believe that people who want to post should be required to register and that registration should require a valid email address. The email address does not need to be made public, so personal privacy can be protected. Just this one simple step would help to clear up the worst problems that have arisen on the board in the last few months.

Too many people hide behind their anonymity, acting in a manner they would not do if they knew they could be held accountable.

CarolNYC
11-03-2002, 05:33 AM
Sorry for not being more specific Tom,
When a topic goes from "who won a tournament" to "your an a@@hole"and (a@@hole) a million insults start,LOCK IT UP!
Carol

eg8r
11-03-2002, 01:14 PM
Jay, I agree with everyone one of your ideas. I really think having multiple forums are the best way. Most all the boards that I frequent (boring to most people, is300.net, and multiple coding boards) all having multiple forums in which to post. This would move some off topic ideas out of the pool related forum and into a discussion type forum. Also, the use of moderators will keep this clean (provided you choose people that will aid in this and not abuse it).

The idea for registering is not to remove all the anons, quite the contrary since most of you do not know who I am. However, the poster will not be anon to the webmasters and admin controlling this board therefore it helps posters monitor their own actions. Sure there are some people that will abuse anything given the chance, and since they are forced to register their, IP can be contacted or what else is deemed necessary.

eg8r

rackmup
11-03-2002, 01:53 PM
<font color=red>ccboard_admin</font color=red>http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/images/adm.gif wants ideas...give 'em some:



Because you can select only one item in the poll, pick the one you think will have the greatest impact on the forum.

I apologize if I missed some of the items that you might consider important (I can add them if you remind me of them.)

Regards,

Ken

Rod
11-03-2002, 03:52 PM
Thanks for giving us an opportunity to express our views.

Registration required. It sure would be nice to identify everyone, even if it is an AKA. Anons would be read only.
Get rid of the top ten list, posters and threads. Those old threads pop back up and almost everyone has had heated debates and abusive language.
Before the change there was % of replies by posters, if you feel the need.
Moderators-your call but I don't think so.
There should be a link at the bottom that reads, report this post, for abusive language, etc.

Good luck,

11-03-2002, 05:50 PM
When can we expect to see the changes? In the time being, could get rid of the thread "who do you Guys think is the hottest WPBA player?" as soon as possible. If you don't, I swear to God, I swear on my children's lives, I will not renew my subscription to your magazine again EVER !!! Thank you

stickman
11-04-2002, 07:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> When can we expect to see the changes? In the time being, could get rid of the thread "who do you Guys think is the hottest WPBA player?" as soon as possible. If you don't, I swear to God, I swear on my children's lives, I will not renew my subscription to your magazine again EVER !!! Thank you <hr></blockquote>

LOTFLMFAO /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif I'm not sure that everyone agrees, but the idea gets my vote. Maybe it could be locked down and archived, at least.

11-04-2002, 12:59 PM
The members of the CCB can't seem to understand that they are the problem, not the annon. posters and not the hateful posters. The members of the CCB add fuel to the fire by responding to inappropriate posts and keeping them alive. If they really had a problem with those posts they'd let those posts die off with no response. The people who start the trash threads are driven by the fact they get attention. I've said before that if the trash posters didn't get any attention, they'd move on. Everyone is willing to have some elaborate changes made to the board, but few are willing to do the simplest thing to solve the problem.
My suggestion is to leave the board the way it is. Give people a chance to control themselves. If that doesn't work, shut it down.

Wally_in_Cincy
11-04-2002, 03:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: DragonSlayer:</font><hr> The members of the CCB can't seem to understand that they are the problem, not the annon. posters and not the hateful posters. The members of the CCB add fuel to the fire by responding to inappropriate posts and keeping them alive. If they really had a problem with those posts they'd let those posts die off with no response. The people who start the trash threads are driven by the fact they get attention. I've said before that if the trash posters didn't get any attention, they'd move on. Everyone is willing to have some elaborate changes made to the board, but few are willing to do the simplest thing to solve the problem.
My suggestion is to leave the board the way it is. Give people a chance to control themselves. If that doesn't work, shut it down. <hr></blockquote>

So the solution is "change nothing or shut it down"? I respectfully disagree.

When this board was much less active the idiot posters could be frozen out, flamed to oblivion, or Webmaster Sven would simply delete their garbage. With the number of participants here now there's bound to be someone who feels a need to respond to the anonymous crap (include me in that group). And if we don't respond some other anon will jump in and pile on. You are right that that would be the best solution but I just don't think it's feasible now.

Ross
11-04-2002, 05:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: DragonSlayer:</font><hr> The members of the CCB can't seem to understand that they are the problem, not the annon. posters and not the hateful posters. The members of the CCB add fuel to the fire by responding to inappropriate posts and keeping them alive. If they really had a problem with those posts they'd let those posts die off with no response. The people who start the trash threads are driven by the fact they get attention. I've said before that if the trash posters didn't get any attention, they'd move on. Everyone is willing to have some elaborate changes made to the board, but few are willing to do the simplest thing to solve the problem.
My suggestion is to leave the board the way it is. Give people a chance to control themselves. If that doesn't work, shut it down. <hr></blockquote>

In a better world, just asking people to control themselves would work and would be the best solution. But in the world we live in, once the numbers get large, some kind of supervision/structure almost always has to be put in place.

For example, say there are 200 potential posters (including anonymii) on CCB. Billy, Ray, Suzie, Mario, Rackmup, ChrisCass, Ross, DragonSlayer, Eric, TominCincy and 170 others all follow your reasonable suggestions. So 90% are good upstanding, non-flame responding netcitizens. But 20 posters (just 10%), for whatever reasons continue to respond to flamers, hurl insults, etc... What do you do then? Is shutting the board down the best solution? Why should the ones that aren't causing the problem lose this resource because of a few who are abusing it?

SPetty
11-04-2002, 10:00 PM
Howdy Admin,

Man, I go on vacation for a week and come back to this?

I believe the Anonymous posters have their place, but I (and I'm sure, they) preferred it when they could replace the name "Anonymous" with a name of their choosing. I do not believe that all posters must be registered. I truly think that solves nothing, and creates problems of its own. I do believe posting of the IP addresses prevents some of the anonymous postings for fear of being found out...

(If anyone cares, one of the reasons that Anonymice have a place is that I have posted at another site that required registration, then when I went back to the site later, did not remember my registered name nor password, and I could not register again because a poster with that email address already existed, so I could no longer participate in that board ever. It doesn't seem right to require that every person with a question about which table to buy or what do you know about this cue to be forced to register just to ask that question...)

Maybe a first try KISS effort would be a button on each post to report the post for possible violation or deletion.

Just my .02

TomBrooklyn
11-05-2002, 06:10 AM
Quote: Anonymous: When can we expect to see the changes? In the time being, get rid of the thread "who do you Guys think is the hottest WPBA player?" as soon as possible. If you don't, I swear I will not renew my subscription to your magazine again EVER!!!
----------------------------

This person's post provides an excellent example of the potential problem with group moderators and thread lockdowns. This person hates the WPBA thread, and he is probably not alone. But at least 150 others, including most of the regular posters liked it enough to post to it, and thousands of people have been interested enough in it to want to read it. Imagine if he was a moderator. He would have shut down the most popular billiards topic in CCB history.

There are others who may like the WBPA thread, but not like x, y, or z, despite the fact that there may be anywhere from a few to many who like to discuss x, y, and z.

There are some people who do not like diversity, change, new ideas and novel concepts. There are others who may not like challenges to established ideas, or be adverse to controversy of any sort. There are some people who just like what they like, and don't tolerate anything else well.

If someone is chosen to be a moderator, it should not be someone of those ilks, unless CCB wanted to become a very pleasant place. Like the movie Pleasantville, where everything is pleasant, but is bland and uneventful.

It will be unfortunate if someone is given the ability to delete posts or lock down threads who does not have the temperament to exercise the greatest discretion and use their ability in the most limited way. They would also need to be assertive enough to be able to withstand the inevitable pressure from people or factions who will try to get them to delete things to match their own preferences or agenda; and they would need to have the communication skills and be willing to devote the time necessary to reply appropriately to those people.

Not an enviable job, and I would be wary of giving it to anyone who enthusiatically wanted it.

=TomBrooklyn=

PQQLK9
11-05-2002, 11:14 AM
FWIW ...how about showing IP's of Anons only ???.

stickman
11-05-2002, 12:03 PM
Tom, you and I agree on the issue of diversity. Differences of opinion and challenging of old accepted ideas is healthy. As you say, it would be a bland, uneventful world if everyone agreed and we all accepted the same ideas. We might still believe the world was flat, if not for differing opinions.

Personally, I was glad to see the thread locked down. (thank you Admin.) Not because it was low on my list of favorite topics, but because the thread had grown to such size, and the majority of new postings to it were becoming very ugly, and not topic related. This thread was continually being brought back to the top and causing a lot of new threads to become lost in the exchange. If it were not for the thread continually resurfacing to the front page and all the non related inflamatory postings, I wouldn't care one way or the other. For those reasons, I think the Admin. did the right thing in the name of trying to maintain some sense of order. There is nothing preventing someone from starting a new thread refering back to the old one if they want to. (Not necessarily right, just my opinion)

When I was on the local school board, I was often asked to judge debate contests. It was very interesting, and sometimes hard to choose a clear winner. I tried to never let my own personal position determine the winner, but rather judged on the quality of presentation, supporting documents, convincing aurguements, etc. Sometimes the debate was convincing enough to cause me to rethink my personal position on the subject. The great thing about debate was there were no personal deflamations, slanderous remarks, and such.

SPetty
11-05-2002, 12:50 PM
Oh yeah, and I do agree that it would be a good idea to "lock down" posts that have gone a week or so with no response.

TomBrooklyn
11-05-2002, 03:40 PM
Why do you want to lock down threads that did not recieve a response within a week. Are theads that do not get responded to in a week bothering you?

Suppose someone does not get to look at the board for a week, and then does, and has something interesting, entertaining, or informative to contribute to that thread. Why should this be prevented?

I am consistantly amazed at how many people feel some sort of comfort by the imposition of regulations which have no actual purpose other that the making of a regulation for it's own sake.

It may be similar to taking a placebo medication, which have been documented to actually heal people who simply needed to believe they had recieved an appropriate prescription.

The only problem with these placebos is that they cannot be administered individualy to the persons who would feel relieved to recieve them. A regulation such as this limits simply limits the abilities of those interested in actively participating in a topic.

So lets say they can start a new topic and refer to the old one. Well, that can be done now if it suits the situation better. But if it is better to maintain continuity by ammending an older thread, why not? What is the harm?

=TB=

11-05-2002, 04:12 PM
Quote: 9 Ball Girl:

....And, I DO NOT think that the problem lies in the Anonymous posters. It's the regular posters that keep bringing up the "flamed" posts.

Ross responded: Also, I do not agree that problem is with just the regular posters. Many of the most offensive posts have been posted by "Anonymous" trolls.

You're both right, and that's the problem. The offensive posts are not just one group or the other; they are made equally by registered and non-registered parties. Therefore, requiring registration will not resolve the problem. To those of you who have said that registering will at least make posters think before they post, I disagree....if that were an effective deterrent, then the registered users wouldn't be part of the problem now. Also, there's nothing to prevent someone with multiple e-mail addresses from registering under multiple names, so registering doesn't truly equal accountability.

Requiring a display of IP addresses is not the answer, either. People on DSL don't get a "fixed" IP address, so they can post multiple times and appear to be different people when they aren't. People on AOL share the same IP address, so displaying the IP address doesn't yield any useful info. At the same time, a poster's privacy (where they live in the country, etc.) can be compromised.

My refusal to register stems from two reasons. 1) I use a PC at work. 2) I refuse to provide an email address because I'm sick of getting spammed when the company I gave my e-mail addy to gets purchased by another entity whose confidentiality policy lets their *partners* market to me--which means virtually any wingnut with a website.

I ALWAYS, though, sign my posts in whatever way I can. I miss being able to change the username from Anon to my name, so I now settle for signing at the end.

I think that it's a waste of energy trying to amend a system that works well for most because of a few bad apples. If everyone really cares about this issue the way they claim to, the best way to fix the problem is for each of us to ignore those posts we find disagreeable. I realize that's easier said than done, but it's the most effective way to achieve what you are all saying you want....a more civil environment.

Your silence...your refusal to rise to whatever bait is thrown....is going to be the most effective deterrent. Those posters looking to stir up trouble are going to get bored and move on if no one replies and they don't get the attention they want.

It takes two to argue; it takes two to flame. If you refuse to participate, the problem will be resolved.

Regards,
Aldewey

nAz
11-05-2002, 06:08 PM
Aldewey

you hit the nail on the head, but its too bad that CCB people cant excerise any self control. all they need to do is IGNORE post that are "offesive" and not argue with the poster Anon or not.
worse thing about it is they go cring off to CcbAdm about it and now we get threatin with a shut down

Ohwell Cya at the Nuremberg rallies AKA Valle Forge hehe

Vagabond
11-06-2002, 06:20 AM
Howdy Administrator,
Considering to shut the CCB (if the inappropriate posting does not stop), appears to me, as a Knee Jerk reaction. I want to remind you that Circastic, condescending comments are as offensive as calling names.Some times this kind of comments generate wild reaction from some.Good luck
Vagabond

Ross
11-06-2002, 09:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> The offensive posts are not just one group or the other; they are made equally by registered and non-registered parties.
<hr></blockquote>
There is a difference though. When a registered party repeatedly makes personal attacks(say, for example, a D___T____) they can be dealt with (warned, removed, or even ignored prior to reading, etc.). With non-registered posters there is absolutely nothing that can be done. If there are 10 personal attacks in a week from non-registered posters, we don't even know if it is the same person.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> Also, there's nothing to prevent someone with multiple e-mail addresses from registering under multiple names, so registering doesn't truly equal accountability.<hr></blockquote>
It does make it more difficult though for them. I don't think many would go through the trouble of getting a new e-mail addy everytime they post.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr>
...
My refusal to register stems from two reasons. 1) I use a PC at work.
<hr></blockquote>
So do I. What is the problem?
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr>
2) I refuse to provide an email address because I'm sick of getting spammed when the company I gave my e-mail addy to gets purchased by another entity whose confidentiality policy lets their *partners* market to me--which means virtually any wingnut with a website.
<hr></blockquote>
I went to yahoo and got an e-mail address (free) to deal with this. I use this e-mail address for any site which I think could result in getting spam.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr>
I think that it's a waste of energy trying to amend a system that works well for most because of a few bad apples.
<hr></blockquote>
If it were working well, this issue would not come up repeatedly, and BD wouldn't be considering shutting it down. And you are exactly right that it is a few bad apples that are the problem. The question is do we set up a way so that the bad apples can be dealt with or not.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr>
If everyone really cares about this issue the way they claim to, the best way to fix the problem is for each of us to ignore those posts we find disagreeable. I realize that's easier said than done, but it's the most effective way to achieve what you are all saying you want....a more civil environment.
<hr></blockquote>

This request for civility has been made repeatedly over several months and it hasn't been effective (or else we wouldn't be having this discussion). If it hasn't been worked in the past, why would you expect it to be effective now?

11-06-2002, 10:22 AM
I am not sure what the downside to requiring registration is. I just did a test run of what is required. I first went to http://mail.yahoo.com/ and created a new e-mail address. This took about 5 minutes - I made some typing errors along the way and had to start over. I then went to CCB and created my new username and registered with my new addy. This was another 5 minutes. I did not give accurate information when I created my e-mail addy nor when I registered for CCB, so my anonymity is assured if I wanted it.
So again, what is the downside?

The Poster Formerly Known as RossNC

11-06-2002, 12:31 PM
Quote: Ross: There is a difference though (between registered &amp; non-registered posters). When a registered party repeatedly makes personal attacks. . .they can be dealt with (warned, removed, or even ignored prior to reading, etc.).

There is a difference in theory; in practice, though, there is no difference. The registered posters who participate in name-calling and flame wars haven't (to my knowledge) been formally warned, they haven't been suspended/removed, and they haven't been ignored prior to reading even though their identity is known.

Quote: Ross: With non-registered posters there is absolutely nothing that can be done. If there are 10 personal attacks in a week from non-registered posters, we don't even know if it is the same person.

Of course there's something that can be done. You're saying that registered posters can be identified and therefore you can choose to ignore them prior to reading....why can't you then ignore Anon postings? Yes, you may miss out on other Anon postings that have something to offer, but if you force registration, you're going to miss out on that anyway because those people will simply refuse to post, so there's no loss.

Or, even better....you don't even have to ignore the Anon postings....you only have to exercise enough self-control to refrain from replying to a personal attack, whether it's from a registered user or a non-registered user. Look, if you're walking down the street and a street bum calls you an idiot, do you feel compelled to stop and reply? No, because you don't care what he thinks anyway and it's not worth getting into the hassle. Same principle here. It doesn't matter if 10 Anon personal attack posts are from the same person or not; if you don't reply to any of them, the result is the same--that person (or persons) get bored and will cease.

Quote: Ross: (Requiring registration) does make it more difficult though for them. I don't think many would go through the trouble of getting a new e-mail addy everytime they post.

They don't have to go through that every time. They only need to go set up 5 or 6 (Free!) hotmail accounts, and you can't tell if it's the same person or not. That doesn't solve the problem. As far as your contention that it makes it more difficult....that might disincent you or me, but it probably wouldn't slow down some yahoo who has nothing better to do than posting slanderous/attacking comments on a community board. To them, it's entertainment and it's a challenge. If they want to find a way to stir trouble, they will. Ah.....but if we each choose not to play (not reply to tripe), then the game gets old, and they lose interest.

Quote: Anonymous: I use a PC at work. Quote Ross: So do I. What is the problem?

The problem is that the spam e-mail that results goes into my inbox at WORK. If I get sent emails that contain viruses that anti-virus software doesn't pick up, that compromises the integrity and security of my entire company's e-mail server, etc.

Quote: Ross: I went to yahoo and got an e-mail address (free) to deal with this (getting spammed). I use this e-mail address for any site which I think could result in getting spam.

Which reinforces my earlier point...if you can set up a free e-mail address, then you can set up more than one. And that means that even someone is registered, they can sign in under one of several names, and you still don't know if attack posts are generated from the same person or different people. Recently, someone accused rackemup of having more than one username. He's registered. Registration hasn't removed the doubt nor the accusations. Registration doesn't not conclusively identify a poster, so requiring it doesn't accomplish anything.


Quote: Ross: If it (the system) were working well, this issue would not come up repeatedly, and BD wouldn't be considering shutting it down.

The issue keeps coming up because the same group of people keep beating the drum. Like everything else, it's the few disenchanted that make the most noise...the squeaky wheel getting the grease situation. That doesn't mean that the system isn't working well for the *majority* of people...you aren't hearing from the bulk of us who simply ignore the junk attack posts instead of responding to them. As for BD considering shutting it down, it's likely they are considering that option because it's getting to be more trouble than it's worth. They intended (I think) to give an easy place for people with an interest in pool to exchange ideas, but they didn't figure they'd have to build an infrastructure with rules and moderators just because people can't play nice together and cannot refrain from mudslinging with one another.

Quote: Ross: And you are exactly right that it is a few bad apples that are the problem. The question is do we set up a way so that the bad apples can be dealt with or not.

And the answer is, no matter how many ways you try to regulate the system, the determined troublemakers will find a way around it....just like software hackers do. Dealing with the bad apples can be done at the grass-roots level if those who care about this forum consciously choose not to engage the troublemakers.

Quote: Ross: This request for civility has been made repeatedly over several months and it hasn't been effective (or else we wouldn't be having this discussion). If it hasn't been worked in the past, why would you expect it to be effective now?

The request for civility has meant please be nice when you post. I'm calling for a different request. For those of you who want the attacks to stop and are willing to roll up your sleeves and make it happen, I'm calling on you and on myself to be adults and exercise enough self-restraint to ignore the attack posts. From what I can see, that hasn't NOT been tried yet. Example: Fran gets trashed by some yahoo....what happens? 20 of Fran's friends are COMPELLED to respond telling the yahoo where to go and how they don't know her, etc. If those 20 people IGNORED the yahoo, he would eventually lose. But that hasn't been tried. The only possible reason for someone to post attacks like that is to GET A RESPONSE...and too many here keep obliging that, providing exactly what the troublemaker(s) want.

On a related note, it's also important to note that a difference of opinion, or a passionate exchange of opposing ideas is *not* a personal attack, and people need to be less thin-skinned if they expect such a forum to work. People are entitled to their opinions, even if their opinions are based on a lack of information or on incorrect information. Debate for the exchange of ideas is a healthy process if done in adult fashion.

Aldewey

11-06-2002, 12:46 PM
FWIW ...how about showing IP's of Anons only ???.

What would that accomplish? If I am Anon and you are Anon, and we both use AOL, we will both have the same IP addy. The IP addy will suggest that the posts are from the same person when they aren't.

Conversely, DSL users don't have a dedicated, permanent IP address. So, if I am Anon and I post right now, and I post again tonight, the IP addresses will be different even though I am the same poster.

In either situation, having that information doesn't tell you anything. In fact, it has the opposite effect....causes arguments about whether or not Poster A really is the same as Poster B.

Besides, the attack posts aren't limited to Anons. They are also from registered users. Ross in NC points out how easy it is to set up a new username using a free Hotmail account. How do you know who the registered users really are?

Imposing identity controls not only won't accomplish anything, but it will be even more misleading. A better solution would be to engage in conversations only with those posters that you feel have something to contribute to the community and ignoring the rest.

Aldewey

11-06-2002, 12:49 PM
Quote: Dragon Slayer: The members of the CCB add fuel to the fire by responding to inappropriate posts and keeping them alive. If they really had a problem with those posts they'd let those posts die off with no response. The people who start the trash threads are driven by the fact they get attention. I've said before that if the trash posters didn't get any attention, they'd move on. Everyone is willing to have some elaborate changes made to the board, but few are willing to do the simplest thing to solve the problem.

RIGHT ON! Couldn't be any more on the money than this.

Aldewey

Alfie
11-06-2002, 02:40 PM
I would like to see a better search engine. The present one is inadequate. Specifically, it needs date and poster search fields.

Make the entire archives searchable (back to the beginning of CCB).

Sid_Vicious
11-06-2002, 03:09 PM
Many many MANY times I have left posts unopened or clamped down on the close key once I see hostility is inside the answer, and I've even left the CB at times for a few days until the thread dried up. That's really all it takes, not rocket science at all...sid

"Quote: Dragon Slayer: The members of the CCB add fuel to the fire by responding to inappropriate posts and keeping them alive. If they really had a problem with those posts they'd let those posts die off with no response. The people who start the trash threads are driven by the fact they get attention. I've said before that if the trash posters didn't get any attention, they'd move on. Everyone is willing to have some elaborate changes made to the board, but few are willing to do the simplest thing to solve the problem."

SPetty
11-06-2002, 03:53 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: TomBrooklyn:</font><hr> Why do you want to lock down threads that did not recieve a response within a week. Are theads that do not get responded to in a week bothering you?<hr></blockquote>Hi Tom,

Nope, they don't bother me.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: TomBrooklyn:</font><hr>Suppose someone does not get to look at the board for a week, and then does, and has something interesting, entertaining, or informative to contribute to that thread. Why should this be prevented?<hr></blockquote>So, maybe a two week limit?

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: TomBrooklyn:</font><hr>I am consistantly amazed at how many people feel some sort of comfort by the imposition of regulations which have no actual purpose other that the making of a regulation for it's own sake.<hr></blockquote>Oh Tom, please don't put me in that bucket. I, too, am amazed by this. Of course, I'm easily amazed. Or is that easily amused? /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif If you've read any of my posts, you should remember that I'm all for the "leave it as it is" position, and I also (blasphemously) believe there is a place for anonymous posters here.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: TomBrooklyn:</font><hr>It may be similar to taking a placebo medication, which have been documented to actually heal people who simply needed to believe they had recieved an appropriate prescription.

The only problem with these placebos is that they cannot be administered individualy to the persons who would feel relieved to recieve them. A regulation such as this limits simply limits the abilities of those interested in actively participating in a topic.<hr></blockquote>Well, of course, it isn't the intent to limit active participation in a topic, and I really don't think it would be that much of a problem. The key word in your sentence as I see it is "actively". If they're reading an old post, they're not participating "actively", but are catching up after vacation or browsing the old posts or looking at outdated threads for some reason or other...

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: TomBrooklyn:</font><hr>So lets say they can start a new topic and refer to the old one. Well, that can be done now if it suits the situation better. But if it is better to maintain continuity by ammending an older thread, why not? What is the harm?<hr></blockquote>Well, Tom, we've all seen the harm when a previously very active old thread that generated many many responses was brought back up to the top. This was done with several of the old long previously dead threads. Many many people didn't like seeing that. Of course, some of us believe it was done maliciously by some nasty anon just to piss us off, and that it obviously did.

So, the reason behind my support of that idea (I didn't invent the idea) is that it will ensure that all posts active within the past week are actually "active" posts. Yes, people could maliciously keep a thread active by posting to it every seven days just to bring it to the top, but that would be so much more work for the bad guy that they probably wouldn't do it so much.

Another idea that came to mind while I was writing this... I had supported the idea of a button on each message to report the message to the CCB-Admin. How about a button on each message that if it gets pushed by 10 (or 15 or 20) different posters, it gets deleted? That way, we could essentially be self policing. Those really nasty bad posts would get deleted very quickly. If enough of us object to the post, it would get deleted. If we're concerned that too many people would push the buttons, we could also collect button pushing stats to post so that we could see who is pushing the button how many times. In this case, I would think it would be a bad thing to get to the top of the button pushing list...

Alfie
11-06-2002, 04:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: SPetty:</font><hr> Well, Tom, we've all seen the harm when a previously very active old thread that generated many many responses was brought back up to the top. This was done with several of the old long previously dead threads. Many many people didn't like seeing that. Of course, some of us believe it was done maliciously by some nasty anon just to piss us off, and that it obviously did. <hr></blockquote>

Why is it so terrible for old threads to keep comming back? I'm not challenging the idea, just asking an honest question.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: SPetty:</font><hr> Another idea that came to mind while I was writing this... I had supported the idea of a button on each message to report the message to the CCB-Admin. How about a button on each message that if it gets pushed by 10 (or 15 or 20) different posters, it gets deleted? That way, we could essentially be self policing. <hr></blockquote>
Too easily abused, IMO.

Alfie
11-06-2002, 05:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr> Bringing back the IPs does not help. A lot of us do not have static IP addresses. They constantly change. Back when the IP addresses were shown, a regular poster accused Fran (I hate to bring her up again) of being a flaming Anonymous poster because they shared the same IP address. And that went on to a lot of back and forth from the regular posters--again--only to learn that they were not the same. <hr></blockquote> Once I thought Frances was impersonating an evil (no doubt) WPBA board member (no doubt) and responding to her own (Frances's) post. But soon I learned that it was really Carol who was impersonating both Frances and the evil WPBA board member in addition to a 16 year old kid in Florida!

jjinfla
11-06-2002, 06:16 PM
Actually, I really do not find that many problems on this board. Maybe it is because I just do not have the time to sit at my computer all day long reading every single post. And I am retired so I don't have ten hours devoted to work each day anymore. I don't see how many of these posters find the time to play pool, post here, earn a decent living to support their family, and have quality time with their family. The problems on this board most likely only exist in the minds of the people who are complaining about problems. The rest of us don't really care. We just skip posts by certain people or as soon as we see a post is innane we go on to the next one and forget about it. Take the so called flamming of everyone's beloved Fran. Fran is a big girl and doesn't need ten people coming to her aid everytime someone disagrees with her. Or maybe she thrives on that and that is the reason she makes some of her comments. Otherwise, why doesn't she just change her screen name? They are free on AOL, Yahoo, Hotmail, etc. Jake

Troy
11-06-2002, 09:17 PM
As it is now, I believe registration does NOT require a valid e-mail address or any e-mail address at all for that matter.

Requiring registration with a valid e-mail address (even if hidden from the masses) will allow the <font color=red>Webmaster</font color=red> recourse if necessay.

Troy...~~~ Real name and email.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: NewRoss:</font><hr> I am not sure what the downside to requiring registration is. I just did a test run of what is required. I first went to <a target="_blank" href=http://mail.yahoo.com/>http://mail.yahoo.com/</a> and created a new e-mail address. This took about 5 minutes - I made some typing errors along the way and had to start over. I then went to CCB and created my new username and registered with my new addy. This was another 5 minutes. I did not give accurate information when I created my e-mail addy nor when I registered for CCB, so my anonymity is assured if I wanted it.
So again, what is the downside?

The Poster Formerly Known as RossNC <hr></blockquote>

Troy
11-06-2002, 09:23 PM
I can create a new name without creating a different e-mail address. It really doesn't matter what name I use or if the public "knows who the registered users are". By requiring registration with a valid e-mail address, the <font color=red>Webmaster</font color=red> would know and could take action if necessary.

Troy

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> Ross in NC points out how easy it is to set up a new username using a free Hotmail account. How do you know who the registered users really are?
Aldewey <hr></blockquote>

Troy
11-06-2002, 09:28 PM
I'd be in favor leaving old threads alone provided things stayed in chronilogical order.... By that I mean stop threads from coming back to the top !!!!!

Troy

nAz
11-06-2002, 11:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: jjinfla:</font><hr> Actually, I really do not find that many problems on this board. Maybe it is because I just do not have the time to sit at my computer all day long reading every single post. And I am retired so I don't have ten hours devoted to work each day anymore. I don't see how many of these posters find the time to play pool, post here, earn a decent living to support their family, and have quality time with their family. The problems on this board most likely only exist in the minds of the people who are complaining about problems. The rest of us don't really care. We just skip posts by certain people or as soon as we see a post is innane we go on to the next one and forget about it. Take the so called flamming of everyone's beloved Fran. Fran is a big girl and doesn't need ten people coming to her aid everytime someone disagrees with her. Or maybe she thrives on that and that is the reason she makes some of her comments. Otherwise, why doesn't she just change her screen name? They are free on AOL, Yahoo, Hotmail, etc. Jake <hr></blockquote>

Dude becarefull talk like that can get you in trouble around here, Bahahahah

bluewolf
11-07-2002, 07:05 AM
there are so many variables included in these suggestions.
Perhaps it would be easier to deal with one or two at a time.

shut down anon posts, then can better deal with flames of users.

lock old treads after two weeks and have threads come up in the order that the thread was started. that keeps old stuff from cooming to the top.

my .02

bw

bluewolf
11-07-2002, 07:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> Quote: Dragon Slayer: The members of the CCB add fuel to the fire by responding to inappropriate posts and keeping them alive. If they really had a problem with those posts they'd let those posts die off with no response. The people who start the trash threads are driven by the fact they get attention. I've said before that if the trash posters didn't get any attention, they'd move on. Everyone is willing to have some elaborate changes made to the board, but few are willing to do the simplest thing to solve the problem.

RIGHT ON! Couldn't be any more on the money than this.

Aldewey <hr></blockquote>

yeah that sounds well and good. but when you get trashed over and over, well every body has their breaking point. seems we have come to the point that obviously insulting, slanderous, and personal attacks,need to be kept offa ccb.

bw

11-07-2002, 03:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Ross:</font><hr>

In a better world, just asking people to control themselves would work and would be the best solution. But in the world we live in, once the numbers get large, some kind of supervision/structure almost always has to be put in place.
<hr></blockquote>

We live in the same world as the people on RSB/ASP. It seems to work over there. When someone over there steps out of line, they get a minimal amout of response. From what I've seen, someone will respond with "Buzz off jerk" or something similar and they move on.
Here, it seems that everybody and their brother feels a need to get their $.02 in, or they get into some lengthy discussion about why someone would post such mean comments. Many people pile on and things get out of hand. The CCB can have an intelligent, fun atmosphere or it can resemble a first grade playground. The CCB admin can make all the changes they want, but the atmosphere of the board is ultimately the responsibility of the people who post.

11-07-2002, 03:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: bluewolf:</font><hr>

yeah that sounds well and good. but when you get trashed over and over, well every body has their breaking point. seems we have come to the point that obviously insulting, slanderous, and personal attacks,need to be kept offa ccb.

bw <hr></blockquote>

With all due respect, BW, that is a childish way of thinking. It is basically saying, "I am not responsible for my actions because someone said something mean to/about me". If you are an adult, I'm sure you can understand that the things that are posted on the CCB are just words. If someone posts some BS about you, most of the other poeple on the board can recognize it as BS. The lack of a response to a personal attack on the CCB says alot about a person's character. It effectively says "I am confident that the majority of the people on the CCB understand that the offensive post is full of BS and not worthy of response".
Please understand that I am only refering to hateful, offensive posts and not heated disagreements. Disagreements are a healthy part of the forum. If people could post incorrect or misleading (pool related) views without being contested, the board would suffer.

SPetty
11-07-2002, 04:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Troy:</font><hr> I'd be in favor leaving old threads alone provided things stayed in chronilogical order.... By that I mean stop threads from coming back to the top !!!!!<hr></blockquote>But if the threads don't come to the top when they've been added to, how do we know they've been added to? Even if people post to old threads, I want to see them - and I don't want to be forced to scroll through months worth of threads just to see that a thread's been updated. It is a good thing that the thread comes to the top when something's been added.

stickman
11-08-2002, 09:58 AM
I'm surprised at the number of people that are resistant to change. Having participated in a large number of forums that require registration, and that have moderators, I've never found anything particularly displeasing about them. In fact, my experience has been that they are much more orderly. Restraint would be an obvious solution. However, as the numbers of active users continue to increase, the number of those not willing to use restraint will increase as well. (Simple math) Figure 3% of 1000, and 3% of 10,000, and you see where we are headed. Sure, an unrully poster can be banned and reregister, but if they continue to be unrully, they'll be banned again, and again. Eventually, it becomes more trouble than it's worth and they move to another forum to raise havoc. Just like theft deterent, you can't keep a theif from stealing something if they want it bad enough, but if you make it difficult enough, they look for easier pickings. JMHO

11-08-2002, 12:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: stickman:</font><hr> I'm surprised at the number of people that are resistant to change. <hr></blockquote>

I didn't mean to give the impression that I'm opposed to change. In fact, I embrace change for the better. There seems to be a small portion of the posters who understand the mindset of the people who are causing problems. Those who understand the mindset also understand that the troublemakers will go to ANY length to cause trouble as long as we make it interesting for them to do so. They will spend the 5 minutes it takes to get a new email address and CCB account every time they get booted. Please understand that they absolutely WILL NOT stop until it is no longer any fun. Even the act of setting up a new account will be fun for them because they'll get the feeling that they are getting one over on the admin and members of the CCB each and every time they do it.

By the way, I understand your math example but I don't really think it's realistic. I'd be surprised if there are 1000 ACTIVE posters on any given day on all the billiard message boards combined. If you look at the CCB in particular, you'll probably find less than 100 regular posters. Using your 3%, we only have to discourage a handful of people by ignoring them.

bluewolf
11-08-2002, 01:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: DragonSlayer:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: bluewolf:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt;

yeah that sounds well and good. but when you get trashed over and over, well every body has their breaking point. seems we have come to the point that obviously insulting, slanderous, and personal attacks,need to be kept offa ccb.

bw &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

With all due respect, BW, that is a childish way of thinking. It is basically saying, "I am not responsible for my actions because someone said something mean to/about me". If you are an adult, I'm sure you can understand that the things that are posted on the CCB are just words. If someone posts some BS about you, most of the other poeple on the board can recognize it as BS. The lack of a response to a personal attack on the CCB says alot about a person's character. It effectively says "I am confident that the majority of the people on the CCB understand that the offensive post is full of BS and not worthy of response".
<hr></blockquote>

i was not talking about me. i know some posters who typically ignore, but have seen them involved in recent flame throwing.it is like they took and took and reached a breaking point and retaliated. for all of us to ignore would be great in a perfect world. but we are all human and occasionally lash out and sometimes regret it. no body is perfect. i am not a great advocate of censorship but the way things have been going recently,that is what is going to happen, at least to a degree when talking about insulting, personal attacks.

bw

11-10-2002, 12:57 AM
If that were the case I would agree with you, but it is not. There is no discussion going on in that thread. It is being used to sabotage the board by trouble makers. They just post one meaningless line to see it come back. I know you can see that, she same as everyone else does.