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11-02-2002, 01:21 PM
Got some stuff called Atlas MP ivory substitute. They say it glues with epoxy or wood glue in the catalog. In testing I can't find anything that it glues with other then super glue. Is there something I don't know? Or is the stuff more trouble then it is worth. Also how does finish do over it. Thank you

BLACKHEART
11-02-2002, 09:30 PM
Most of the BLACK HEART Qs, that I make, have this stuff in the butt caps,ferrules & joints. I've been useing it for about 12-13 years. I use SUPER GLUE GEL for the ferrules & 5 minute epoxy for everything else. I've never had a failure. I use an automotive 2 part, clear finish. I have no problems painting over the ivory substitute...JER

11-02-2002, 10:18 PM
Hi
Thank you for your reply. The only testing I have done was to just apply the glue to the stuff and see how it adhered. I found I was able to just peel it off. I think what I am going to do is bore it out and sleeve it over linen phenolic before putting it on the wood. If I can ask, what type of super glue do you use? Won't it set up too fast in case you don't get the piece positioned quickly. The stuff does seem to glue with super glue gel but to slip on a ferrule I don't want any glue voids. In general I use West Systen epoxies

Troy
11-02-2002, 10:26 PM
I too use Super Glue GEL with great success. I've experimented with wood glue with negative results.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: BLACKHEART:</font><hr> Most of the BLACK HEART Qs, that I make, have this stuff in the butt caps,ferrules &amp; joints. I've been useing it for about 12-13 years. I use SUPER GLUE GEL for the ferrules &amp; 5 minute epoxy for everything else. I've never had a failure. I use an automotive 2 part, clear finish. I have no problems painting over the ivory substitute...JER <hr></blockquote>

Troy
11-02-2002, 11:41 PM
First, I don't think just applying adhesive is a valid test. You need to test by adhering two materials together.

Second, adding a third material such as phenolic just creates one more level of adhesion.

Third, I use Duro Gel or Loctite 454 and it does NOT set too quickly when used for ferrules. I spread a coat on the tenon and some on the end of the ferrule. When I put the ferrule on, a bit of excess is on both ends and I just wipe that off.

Troy...~~~ Maybe Jer will add more insight
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> Hi
Thank you for your reply. The only testing I have done was to just apply the glue to the stuff and see how it adhered. I found I was able to just peel it off. I think what I am going to do is bore it out and sleeve it over linen phenolic before putting it on the wood. If I can ask, what type of super glue do you use? Won't it set up too fast in case you don't get the piece positioned quickly. The stuff does seem to glue with super glue gel but to slip on a ferrule I don't want any glue voids. In general I use West Systen epoxies <hr></blockquote>

BLACKHEART
11-03-2002, 12:11 AM
I use DURO brand gel. I apply a smooth coat on the tenon then form a ring of glue around the tenon at the tip. Since you are putting on more super glue than normal give it 5 minuts to set up. I have done up to 2000 repairs a year &amp; have ZERO failures...JER

SpiderMan
11-04-2002, 09:23 AM
Anon,

I think the problem is in your testing methods. The MP tube stock is probably made by an extrusion process, which leaves a very slick surface that may also have some contaminants. If you're just putting a dab of glue on the outside and seeing how it holds, that could be a problem.

I'm not a cuemaker, but I do use this material for some ferrule replacements. I have never had a problem with using two-part epoxy. Before I slip on the ferrule, I break any glaze by twisting some sandpaper around a drill rod and scuffing up the inside of the hole. Then I use alcohol on a swab to clean the dust and de-grease.

I'll bet if you scuffed the outside and re-tried your glue experiments, you'd get a better result.

SpiderMan

11-04-2002, 09:52 AM
I think you are right, but just to be safe I think I am going to thread them on and epoxy them. I was not happy with the answers I got from Atlas, I am not sure they really even make the stuff themselves. They seemed to have no knowledge of the materials properties at all. I would say it will never glue with wood glue as they say. I think they just added that to the copy without knowing if it would or not because it sounded good.

SpiderMan
11-04-2002, 01:12 PM
Right, I thought that was funny when I read it also, at least if you consider the "Elmer's" type of wood glue to be the stuff they are talking about. MP is pretty much non-porous, and those glues don't tend to work well. But, like I said, epoxy seems to work really well.

If you bought the MP in tube form, it's already 5/16" id, so if you thread it you'll have to have a larger-than-normal tenon on the shaft.

SpiderMan