PDA

View Full Version : Post deleted by ccboard_admin



03-06-2002, 03:47 PM

Rod
03-06-2002, 04:45 PM
You know that feeling when the golf club starts down, and then before you know it your at a full extended finish?
You hardly know there was a ball in the way. If you janked down on the club and got your timing off, the effects are not near the same.

The same with pool, you can hit the ball hard with correct timing. If you jerk the cue forward with a tight grip, you not only lose speed but accuracy as well. Speed is not what breaks the balls well, although it helps sometimes. It's how accurate the hit is, as in a dead solid perfect head on hit. Right in the face with a perfect center hit on the c/b. Work on rythm and timing and build up speed. When you lose accuracy and whitie is out of control, then slow down. It takes time and practice to hit hard and be accurate. Some people are supprised when the hit the rack dead solid with about 60% power, the balls really scatter, try it.
Try shooting in a long shot real hard, how many times can you do that and be in control, it's the same principal.
JMO but start slow and build up speed and feel what your doing. You can build from there.

Tom_In_Cincy
03-06-2002, 04:45 PM
For 8 ball, From the right side of the table (I am right handed and can place my bridge hand on the table) I use a (as much as possible a full hit) second ball hit with bottom english, with about the same speed as a full table bank.
For 9 ball, I use the same speed but cue ball is on the head string, 1 diamond from the right side rail. I aim to hit the one ball full.

I have had a lot of sucess pocketing balls on the break with these methods.
Good luck.

CarolNYC
03-06-2002, 05:06 PM
Hi there,
I use an eliminator break cue-20 oz,, I usually break 9-ball from the right side-a very old player told me you must have a beginning,middle and end to your break-hold your breakstick as far to the back as you can-a hair(pubic) below center and follow through!Beginning,middle and end-your stick should end across the table!Good luck!
Carol-usually can drop 3-4 on the 9 ball break:)_

MaineEAck
03-06-2002, 05:31 PM
there is a guy from Canada, Danny Hewit, best break I have ever seen... anyone ever see it? I can't really explain it... but i will try to find a video for everyone!

Rod
03-06-2002, 09:09 PM
Carol, Carol, what color of p/hair? A black one is about .007" diameter, a red one is, um well never mind. I need help here, my stroke isn't that accurate. Besides if you can make 3 or 4 balls then I'll just let you break. It would be like shooting slow ducks from there. Whack them balls.
Rod ~~ really did measure hairs

stickman
03-07-2002, 01:19 AM
I believe as you Rod. I used to try to kill the balls and had a lot of miscues, and bad hits. I shoot very firm and try to be precise. I like to try to leave the CB in the middle of the table, that way if I make something, I might have another shot. In nine ball the one usually rolls back towards me near the corner pocket to my left. If I leave the cue ball in the middle of the table, I generally have a shot at the one. Hopefully something else falls and I start out with a good first shot.

CarolNYC
03-07-2002, 03:41 AM
LMAO-are you sure those red ones arent dyed? Ha Ha hHave a great day!
Carol~will play smooth!

CarolNYC
03-07-2002, 03:43 AM
Absolutely-second ball hit on 8-ball! Way to go!
Carol

CarolNYC
03-07-2002, 03:47 AM
Also, I dont know how true this is, but I've noticed that i change my break spot on certain tables-theres one table at my pool hall that I break from dead center rather than from the right and the 9 goes at least 30% of the time, so I see what happens on certain tables and break in the spot that makes balls and leaves my cue central!
Carol

Bob_in_Cincy
03-07-2002, 09:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr>
For 8 ball, From the right side of the table (I am right handed and can place my bridge hand on the table) I use a (as much as possible a full hit) second ball hit with bottom english, with about the same speed as a full table bank.
For 9 ball, I use the same speed but cue ball is on the head string, 1 diamond from the right side rail. I aim to hit the one ball full.

I have had a lot of sucess pocketing balls on the break with these methods.
Good luck. <hr></blockquote>

Tom,

I guess I'm brain-dead this morning, but where exactly do you place the QB on the 8-ball break? For a while I was making a couple balls (up to as high as 4 once in a while) every break using pretty much the spot you use for 9-ball, but now can't seem to make even one consistently, even after trying different QB spots. Maybe I'm not hitting where I used to, I don't know.

Bob

03-07-2002, 09:50 AM
There's a guy that I once played in the state tourney that had an awesome 9 ball break. He would stroke his cue rapidly and then let it rip. I now do it and have found I don't need to try to hit the balls as hard, the momentum just crushes the ball!

03-07-2002, 10:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: CarolNYC:</font><hr> Hi there,
I use an eliminator break cue-20 oz,, I usually break 9-ball from the right side-a very old player told me you must have a beginning,middle and end to your break-hold your breakstick as far to the back as you can-a hair(pubic) below center and follow through!Beginning,middle and end-your stick should end across the table!Good luck!
Carol-usually can drop 3-4 on the 9 ball break:)_ <hr></blockquote>

Sounds pretty good. Someone gave me this tip which helps:
Your break should be simular to a punch. When your arm is cocked, you should concentrate on snapping your arm forward with speed and if your timing is on, tighten your grip at the last moment, then let your cue follow through.
Eric&gt; makes 10 balls on the break(!)

Fred Agnir
03-07-2002, 10:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: whitewolf:</font><hr> I am just looking to bust the balls so hard your ears will hurt and am interested in techniques/suggestions. Thanks. <hr></blockquote>

This is something that I've done, and it may help to open some doors. First and foremost, everyone must absolutely understand that just because one technique works for one, it doesn't necessarily work for others. That's because other things happen beyond the "rapid warm up, hair below center, look at cue ball last" suggestions. And reasons for inability to hit the cue ball really hard are so numerous that a suggestion here or there may never address the root cause.

I've had problems hitting the cueball in the center when really stroking hard for the break, which in turn reduces the speed. Some people never have problems with this, so they can't begin to comprehend how to fix it. With me, after some video taping of myself, I noticed that my elbow swings from the right to left (looking from the rear) 6 or more inches!!! I couldn't possibly hit the ball in the center.

I won't go into much further detail, but my end result is to start my elbow even farther to the right (counter intuitive) than I have been. My "solution" is similar to batting coaches and golf coaches who ask their charges to move a piece of their body here or there in an effort to affect the final outcome, but not necessarily to affect any of the fine details. Like golf coaches saying "start with your feet in front of the ball" or batting coaches saying, "start your hands an inch higher than your left shoulder." At this point, I could care less about fine details, as long as I can make the adjustment that gets the good and repeatable results. It has worked to such a degree that I am hitting the balls harder today than I ever have in my life. And break and runs come more frequently.

Note: this is for the hard hard almost out of control break. For a softer break, a standard firm "set, pause, finish" type of stroke may be sufficient for most 9-ball breaks.

Fred

03-07-2002, 01:38 PM
Hello Whitewolf.

If I understand you correctly, you are asking for a description of principles and techniques for generating speed and power. Correct? I used to be a martial arts instructor. I'm a (by most definitions, including Phil Capelle's) a good B player. The reason I'm not a weak A player is that I don't yet shoot the shots consistently enough. The reason I'm not an average A player is that I don't have the precise control of the cueball I would need to, say, break and run 4 racks of 9-ball. But (when I'm breaking well), I can break the balls as good as some pros. (And when I'm breaking poorly, I break like the good B player that I am. But that's a "control, hit the center of the cueball, hit the center of the 1 ball" issue, not a "doesn't know how to generate power" issue.)

I've been really busy here at work lately (so busy that I didn't go to the U.S. Bar Table Championships in Reno this week), so I don't have the time right now to type out the long explanation of how speed and power are generated. But if this is what you are looking for, let me know. I'll try to find some time (probably tomorrow afternoon, as the week is winding down) to type out the principles of generating speed and power, and the specific techniques in a Pool break that follow these principles.

03-07-2002, 01:39 PM
When playing 9ball my qball placement varies from game to game rather than table to table....Take a good look at the rack, if the balls are slightly off center use it to your advantage and move the qball..

From either side breaks I use a smooth stroke and hit the 1ball as close to center as possible when striking it from either side of the table and I use low right english from the right side and low left from the left side of the table...from center spot I hit the middle of the ball and blast it....I am new to pool, shooting for about 1 year....looking to learn from all of you board members.
thanks

03-07-2002, 01:41 PM
What happens wieh me when I'm not hitting the cueball center (which in turn makes me not hit the 1 ball center) is that I'm pushing myself up too early. I actively PUSH off of the ball of my right foot. If I push myself up too early (instead of pushing myself forward), the butt of the cue comes up, and (since I am breaking from the left rail), the tip of the cue goes down and left. When I put a lot of power into it, but get a weak break, the cueball is always seen spinning like a top. Something I've been working on, and I have largely (but not totally) corrected it. I made some changes to my break technique a while ago (changed the timing), and that flaw came in. Took me a while (and a videotaping) to learn what was causing it.

CarolNYC
03-07-2002, 03:21 PM
Hi Eric,
Im LMAO regarding Rod-I wonder what type of measuring device he used? ha ha ha
Carol

Tom_In_Cincy
03-07-2002, 03:49 PM
The Cue ball is near the side rail as close as you can get it and still be comfortable with your bridge hand and stroking as low as possible without jacking up.

A common mistake is to hit the cue ball as hard as you can.
You have to keep in mind, that you are striking the second ball as full as possible, with reverse english STILL on the cue ball. Speed of the cue ball is to hit it hard enough so it still has a lot of reverse on it when it hits the second ball....

03-07-2002, 03:53 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: CarolNYC:</font><hr> Hi Eric,
Im LMAO regarding Rod-I wonder what type of measuring device he used? ha ha ha
Carol <hr></blockquote>

I don't know, but I think he has waaay too much free time!

Rod
03-07-2002, 06:19 PM
Hi Carol, true story, I'll call it "Flat Hairs"
When I was but a young and happy lad, something changed to make me sad. One day I noticed a small sore on my face. Well you know kids, they have to scratch. It became sore and the next day I had even more. So I scratched more. Then those few created an epidemic on my face. Well I was just a mess and looked terrible. My mother made me go to school to boot, and it was very embarrassing. The dreaded disease was Impetigo, no explanation now people may be eating.

Skip forward 30 years.
I had a beard and noticed in one small area my skin was sore. So I pulled on a hair and it come right out. I thought this to be strange, so I pulled more out. This was the area that the dreaded disease was the worst. I got to checking the hairs and they were not round. Also strange to me, because when I rolled them in my fingers it felt like rolling a match from a match book. Got the picture? Well me being the inquisitive type decided to measure one. I found it was .007" one one side and .011 on the other side. Hence the Flat Hairs title! I measured them with dial indicator calipers, of course I needed to do more in depth research!!
ha ha ha ha

03-07-2002, 08:00 PM
how about trying the soft break for 9-ball games ? corey deuel redefined the 9-ball game last year by introducing this type of break and won several tournaments in the process. it actually upset strickland so much he quit in one of their match. this actually proves that a monster thunder break is not totally necessary to win 9-ball.

03-07-2002, 10:07 PM
I believe there are two answers to your question, the first coming instinctively from people I have learned from, the disciplined answer, "you don't have to hit hard to get a good break, use technique and control... And then there's my barroom discipline, sometimes I like to make that sound that 6 tables over, they look to see, hot damn, who did that break? Or maybe I want to intimidate my opponent. Of course, if you are going to make that noise, the idea of intimidation goes out the window, if you don't show control , or don't pocket a ball, or the cueball flies off the table each time.

I seem to make more balls on the break with a hard break shot in 8-ball, not so with 9-ball, I use a more controlled break. But to answer the hard break, I used a closed bridge, though I shoot mostly open. Just recently I have tried placing my forward elbow down to get more control of my forward weight. Practice follow through, and grip the cue firmly, and I rock forward on my heels just a little, instead of pivoting my waist, or shoulder, I just want my forearm to move. No exaggerated movement. I hit center ball. Think not only follow through the cue, but the cue through the rack as well. Find the distance from the tip to the cueball that most consistently gives you both power and control, in your stance, is I guess the most important starting point.

my 2 cents, but i have friends that disagree with just a lot of this, equally as good, but i do love a killer break

stickman
03-07-2002, 11:50 PM
I can't tell you how he did it, but a young player on my APA team had a awsome break. It was the type that got peoples attention. He was a very good and controlled shooter, and it wasn't that he was out of control on the break, but he had an extremely hard hit. One night during league he split the three ball almost perfectly in half on the break. Darndest thing I ever saw.

CarolNYC
03-08-2002, 05:49 AM
Awwwwwww.Eric,
C'mon, its nice to see someone sharing their thoughts-I think we all have alot of time on our hands if we're on this chalkboard-and his explanation was quite enlightening and still LMAO-just think-a hair couldve been stuck on his tongue-now that ANNOYING! ha ha ha
Carol

CarolNYC
03-08-2002, 05:51 AM
Well said, a mentor of mine told me that and good luck with shooting-go gettum!
Carol

03-08-2002, 09:09 AM
Well, actually, my time here is at the expense of work time(that's life). Like the saying goes; A bad day goofing off is better than a good day at work! Are you going to Valley Forge?

Eric

P.S.- Was that hair on his tongue or between his teeth?!

Fred Agnir
03-08-2002, 09:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: stickman:</font><hr> One night during league he split the three ball almost perfectly in half on the break. Darndest thing I ever saw. <hr></blockquote>

Take a look at my picture on the left.

Fred

CarolNYC
03-08-2002, 10:13 AM
Yes I am Eric-I'll be working for Dawn and Allen-hope to see you there!
Carol

03-08-2002, 10:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: CarolNYC:</font><hr> Yes I am Eric-I'll be working for Dawn and Allen-hope to see you there!
Carol <hr></blockquote>

I'll try to run into ya. Let me know how to find you.

stickman
03-08-2002, 01:28 PM
I see it now Fred, I first thought that was some sort of Talc holder. LOL I don't think I'll ever have to worry about doing that, no harder than I hit. I have a decent break, but don't think I'll do that. :-)

03-08-2002, 01:43 PM
I would bet that your elbow is not lined up straight to the tip. You will also need to have a loser wrist. You also need to hit the cueball at it's "heaviest" point. Feel your tip. When you hit the cueball and you feel it "pop", that's the spot you wanna hit. You also need to let your body carry it's momentum. Push thru your legs, your body will fly towards the one ball. LET it.

Rod
03-08-2002, 04:37 PM
Stickman, I definately believe in control. You can't keep shooting unless a ball is made. On the other hand, a scratch on the break is like giving the game away.
Didn't I read somewhere that you are from SE Kansas? It's
been a number of years but I did travel that area some. I just remembered It's been more than a number of years.

03-08-2002, 07:40 PM
Being a woman, I found one of the hardest elements to improve on was the break. It was explained to me as follows, and damn, it works!

Hit the cueball in the center, and instead of trying to hit the ball "hard", concentrate on hitting with VELOCITY. The key is speed, not force. Think of velocity this way: it's like jumping on the accelerator of a car to see how fast you can get from 0-60 mph. When your cue is all the way back on your last backswing, it's at 0. You want to concentrate on getting up to 60 by moving the cue forward FAST.

I've found I can do this with a closed bridge from center table behind the headstring (although I'm sure it works from the sides also).

Keep your fingers and wrist fairly loose on the cue and just let it go.

Good luck!

CarolNYC
03-08-2002, 07:52 PM
Eric, My pictures onJays site <a target="_blank" href=http://www.pooltournamentcentral.com-and>www.pooltournmentcentral.com-and</a> just listen for the girl with the NY Fuhgeddaboudit accent,ha ha ha!
Carol

03-08-2002, 08:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: CarolNYC:</font><hr> Eric, My pictures onJays site <a target="_blank" href=http://www.pooltournamentcentral.com-and>www.pooltournmentcentral.com-and</a> just listen for the girl with the NY Fuhgeddaboudit accent,ha ha ha!
Carol <hr></blockquote>

Cool, I'll check your pics out. I'm 5'11", 190lb, blk hair, goatee, athletic/muscular build(how do you say that without sounding like a mirror freak), glasses. Maybe I'll wear a green shirt-St. Patty's/all that noise... Sorry, no online pics of me but I do stick out of a crowd. I'm always the not-so-innocent-bystander. C'Ya

CarolNYC
03-09-2002, 09:18 AM
Holy ####!
Well, sadly to say, Im 5'6"-120 lbs and i may have purple hair!ha ha ha-your a big boy-i'll be looking! Travel safely-see you then!
Carol

03-10-2002, 10:26 AM
Got your pic, Carol. I'll find you when I get there. Just look for the guy with the 4 hours of sleep look(I'll be just back from the west coast and leaving @8:21 PST!)

Keep the painted side up!

Eric

CarolNYC
03-10-2002, 08:31 PM
Awwwwww,Travel safely Eric,
I'll try to spike the purple parts of the hair,ha ha ha!
See you then,big boy!
Carol

04-18-2002, 11:57 AM
YEs I agree, this guy has a monster break, he is a fairly tall guy say 6'2 or so, and when he breaks his back arm is almost straight up at the end of his backstroke. Damn amazing is what it is.

08-09-2002, 02:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: CarolNYC:</font><hr> Hi there,
I use an eliminator break cue-20 oz,, I usually break 9-ball from the right side-a very old player told me you must have a beginning,middle and end to your break-hold your breakstick as far to the back as you can-a hair(pubic) below center and follow through!Beginning,middle and end-your stick should end across the table!Good luck!
Carol-usually can drop 3-4 on the 9 ball break:)_ <hr></blockquote>

What kind of Eliminator cue you have? Is it the sneaky pete all wood or the fiberglass type?

CarolNYC
08-09-2002, 03:50 AM
GRAPHITE!

Chris Cass
08-09-2002, 09:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: CarolNYC:</font><hr> Holy ####!
Well, sadly to say, Im 5'6"-120 lbs and i may have purple hair!ha ha ha-your a big boy-i'll be looking! Travel safely-see you then!
Carol <hr></blockquote>

120 lbs.? Maybe soaking wet, wearing a fur coat. hahahaha

Regards,

C.C.

CarolNYC
08-09-2002, 03:22 PM
Oh Chris,
You ALWAYS make me smile:)-okay,so I fibbed a little-hows 109?
Cant wait to see you again!
Carol

Voodoo Daddy
08-09-2002, 10:35 PM
120 lbs? I hate being 3 1/6th times bigger than Carol, Chris too...HAHAHAHAHAHA

Chris Cass
08-10-2002, 10:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Voodoo Daddy:</font><hr> 120 lbs? I hate being 3 1/6th times bigger than Carol, Chris too...HAHAHAHAHAHA <hr></blockquote>

It's the heart that really counts Voodoo. Your both pretty close but I think Carols got the edge on you by a hair. LOL

Regards,

C.C.~~two of my favorite people....

08-12-2002, 01:51 PM
I used to think it was necessary to break with a 21oz. stick,but lately I've been using an 18oz. stick,it's easier to get the speed up in the short distance the stick travels.Several of my friends have complimented me on the improvement I've made.Also,you need to keep the elbow of your bridge arm bent.Pool and Billiards Mag. recently did an article on breaking.

bluewolf
08-12-2002, 05:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> I used to think it was necessary to break with a 21oz. stick,but lately I've been using an 18oz. stick,it's easier to get the speed up in the short distance the stick travels.Several of my friends have complimented me on the improvement I've made.Also,you need to keep the elbow of your bridge arm bent.Pool and Billiards Mag. recently did an article on breaking. <hr></blockquote>

when i used to do karate, the power in the punch had everything to do with speed and little to do with mass. also a fist which is relaxed until the point of impact was faster. i guess we might be able to generalize this to pool regarding the stroke.

bluewolf