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bigbro6060
11-03-2002, 10:01 PM
Hey guys

is there a practical limit to the speed that the cueball can be sent toward the rack without it jumping off the table ? assuming the cueing was as straight as possible

in my experience, when you hit the cueball over a certain speed, it's near impossible to stop the cueball jumping up, often off the table, if your lucky it stays on the table

PQQLK9
11-04-2002, 12:04 AM
No, there is no limit IMHO...a cue ball hitting the rack SOLID at warp speed will stay on the table. Solid is dead center on the horizontal and vertical plane.

Jay M
11-04-2002, 08:58 AM
It's not the speed that causes the cue ball to jump off the table. It's one of three things:

1) You hit the side of the ball at just the wrong angle.

If this is what's happening, work on accuracy. Never sacrifice accuracy for power on the break, even if the cue stays on the table, it's potluck if you get a shot.

2 & 3) The cue ball is still in the air when it hits the rack and lands too high on the one ball or the cue landed too early and bounced up to hit the one above the center line.

Of those two, the bounce is more probable. It's easier for the cue ball to continue moving in the same direction and on the bounce it is already moving up when it makes contact.

To fix the bounce, raise the butt of your cue a bit and break, see what happens and just keep adjusting a little bit more until you find the proper angle for your break. Note that if you change the speed of the break, the angle changes as well.

If you are hitting the one ball on top, the reverse is true, you are elevating the butt of the cue too much for the speed of your shot.

Good Luck /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Jay M

stickman
11-04-2002, 09:33 AM
I doubt that the speed is the reason for the cueball jumping off the table, but of course, I could be wrong. Slowing the speed down would affect the problem, but I don't think it is the root of the problem. I see some very powerful breaks that stay on the table. Here are my thoughts on what could be the problem. If you break with the butt of the cue elevated and drop your elbow during the break, you could be striking the top half of the cueball. This would be sort of a mini jump stroke. The cueball is skipping across the table top and strikes the object ball above center, thus causing it to jump up at impact. Another possibility would be that you are striking the cueball too low and digging under it. This could also cause the cueball to skip across the table top, and result in the cueball striking the object ball above center. Either way, I suspect that the cueball is not staying on the table surface, but instead skipping on the way to the object ball. My suggestion would be to break with as level a stroke as you can, and be accurate in regard to where you strike the cueball. Don't give up accuracy for power. Power without accuracy will not gain you anything. JMHO

Scott Lee
11-04-2002, 10:53 AM
This is a question I get asked all the time. The other responses were pretty much on the money. However, as I have demonstrated over and over, a smooth stroke (with a pause at the CB and a slow backswing) and a 15-20 mph break speed will result in excellent break patterns. This also assumes a level cuestick, and a centerball hit that strikes the head ball of the rack SQUARE so that all of the energy is transitioned from the CB into the rack. For those wondering what 15-20 mph is...shoot the CB up and down the table longways, so that it travels 4 lengths of the table (five on very fast cloth). If you can do this consistently, and stroke through the CB smoothly, your breaks will continue to improve and your consistency of CB control will raise considerably. This is true no matter where you break from.

Although ideal, making a ball on the break should NOT be the sole judgement call on how well you broke the rack. Energy transfer, CB control, and OB spread should be the deciding factors. Remember, even the pros frequently do not make a ball on the break.

The other night I played against a fellow with a sledgehammer break (25+ mph). Although he hit the ball MUCH harder than I did (generally with very good control) he did not pocket balls on the break any better than I.
I have seen several top pros taking speed OFF of their breaks, often with better results. I am not talking about the soft break technique of Cory and some others...which is akin to an 8-10 mph break speed. jmo

Scott Lee

jbullerjr
11-04-2002, 10:59 PM
I have been clocked at 30mph, at that speed I don't seem to have the cue ball control that I want. The cue ball is not flying off the table, it just isn't stopping dead center.
I will adjust my break speed on just about any table, the most important thing is to make a ball and get enough spread to run out.
I know that you can break harder and still have control, I am pretty sure Bustimante (sp?) has been clocked at 38mph.

J.

11-04-2002, 11:44 PM
I would have to say that 38 mph is almost impossible. I would doubt your 30 mph claim. How was it measured? The speed of a cue ball is very limited because of the short distance before it hits the rack. It has not yet accelerated to what would be its fasted speed. The distance is just too short.

jbullerjr
11-05-2002, 02:04 AM
BCA Nationals, Sardo booth.
I have been clocked at a S.W.E.L. (Southwest Eight Ball Leage)Texas State Tourny by Randy G. and his crew at 28mph. I think this one is documented.
I have no motive to lie as I was not the fastest at either of these events.
I did not witness the 38mph by Bustimante, I was told that by the people at the Sardo booth.

Both speeds were taken by what appeared to be a normal? radar gun.

J.