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dooziexx
11-05-2002, 10:07 AM
What is the difference in the hit/feel of a with ivory ferrule and one with a linen phenolic ferrule? Does the ivory ferrule provide a softer hit??

Chris Cass
11-06-2002, 09:14 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: dooziexx:</font><hr> What is the difference in the hit/feel of a with ivory ferrule and one with a linen phenolic ferrule? Does the ivory ferrule provide a softer hit?? <hr></blockquote>

Hi Dooz,

I shoot with a South West. I like Ivory, the hit is softer and it's stays clean. The linen's are close in feeling but I feel I have a little more control in the hit. This could be a mental thing too.

When, deciding to go to the Ivory ferrule it was all about keeping a clean and high luster finish was a plus. The down side is they're extremely touchy. You really need a pad to save on tip changes taking down the Ivory to reface it. You need to keep an eye on the tip size making sure it doesn't get below a dimes width side wall.

They also will sand very easy on the sides and have been know to shrink. The Ivory itself needs to be oil'd every so often to keep it from drying out. You can't put a tip on yourself with the Willard Machine. The refacing will chip the Ivory and this is another reason to have a pad. If the pad is not fiber. I use a thin slice of ABS plastic material myself, to make it possible to use the Willard Machine on my own. My tip guy thinks Ivory and steel are the same. I'd laugh but I don't find that funny.

They're a lot of trouble and costly but look and hit good. IMO The best way to cut down the cost and have a great totally clean peice of Ivory is order some blanks from Mueller(pre-cut). I find there sealed, clean Ivory and costs about $22. ea. My cue guy will put them on for about $20. so it's a little cheaper then say $50. or $75. to install. I've recently had one crack in six places. After carefull inspection I found out there wasn't a pad on it.

Regards,

C.C.~~JMO and not trying to hurt the cue makers out there.

dooziexx
11-06-2002, 09:57 AM
Hi Chris,
Thanks for your reply. From your post I conclude that you cannot replace a tip on an ivory ferrule using the conventional method. By conventional method, I mean, usually I would cut the tip off as close to the ferrule as I can, then using a rapid sander, sand off the excess tip and glue off the ferrule before placing a new tip on it.

Im not sure what the use of the pad is. Does the pad go between the ferrule and the tip, so that when you are sanding off the excess material, the ferrule would not be touched?

Chris Cass
11-06-2002, 10:17 AM
Hi Dooz,

Yes, the pad is inbetween the tip and Ivory ferrule. PLEASE, do not use a Rapid Sander on a Ivory ferrule. It's virtually imposible to reface the ferrule straight using the Rapid Sander. Even, though you slightly move back and forth with it in both directions.

The pad you can sand on but only if it's like ABS plastic. Ivory should be cut on a lathe. Matter of fact, do yourself a favor and give the Rapid Sander to someone you don't like. LOL They're not good my friend. If you sand the ferrule using it. Place a tip on top and in position without glueing it in place. Holding the tip with your finger up to the light, you'll see it isn't flush and the light will seep through. The tip will be crooked and if it doesn't pop off eventually it will have to be shaped from there. If you want to do this tip stuff yourself? It may be a good idea for you to stick with the Fiberfilled Ferrules. Them, will take a lot to sand down. Ivory is too much work for the average person, unless you ahve a cue guy with a lathe. IMHO

Regards,

C.C.~~believes the Rapid Sander was made by a Bowler.

SpiderMan
11-07-2002, 09:50 AM
Yes, one advantage of a pad is that it allows you to do several tip replacements without having to sand down to the ferrule.

On an ivory ferrule, the pad is also used to reduce the tendency for splitting. As a tip compresses from use, it will spread and get "wider" (the familiar mushroom to be trimmed). If it's glued to the top of the ferrule, it tries to take the ferrule right along with it, spreading it out radially and possibly causing a split. A pad acts as a buffer layer between the tip and ferrule. The pad is made of a material that resists spreading in the direction perpendicular to the shaft axis.

Some people think pads look cool. I like a red one under a black water buffalo, reminds me of the red-line tires we used to put on our Mustangs.

SpiderMan

11-07-2002, 03:08 PM
You might take a look at Tagua nuts. If you can get one in the right size, any cue-maker or repair-man with a lathe can turn it into a ferrule. They are called vegetable ivory and are very white like ivory (hence the nickname), and are alleged to have an excellent hit similar to ivory. Myself, as long as my ferrules are thin-walled I'm happy. I've used fiber, linen-micarta, ivory, ivorene, abs, and pvc (ugh! never again). I found tagua nuts fairly cheap on e-bay (app.$7+s&h for 12 nuts of app.1.25" in size). I was always too paranoid of caring for my ivory joints and ferrules when I should be focused on other issues (like playing).

Just thinking out loud...

Oz

11-07-2002, 03:41 PM
They are hollow on the inside. I don't think you could find one you could cut in a way to make a ferrule. They are also soft. There is a formula to baking them to make them harder that is used by scrimshaw artists. For cues they would be hard to work with and may not be worth the trouble. Possibly for small inlays but that may be all.

Tommy_Davidson
11-08-2002, 01:10 AM
> What I did before getting a lathe was take the Rapid Top sander and throw away the sandpaper you usually see used with it. Then,take a round piece of the white 3M adhesive backed sandpaper and stick it to the metal,making sure to not leave ripples or wrinkles. Take a razor blade and cut the excess off the edges,and turn the top back and forth,with slow speed turning about a 1/4 turn one way then back the other way,after wrapping the shaft up with masking tape and sliding a piece of paper in the hole where the shaft on the top goes into the clamp. This will help eliminate the slop between the shaft clamp and the shaft on the top,making it much more likely to face the ferrule off flat. I also have a copy of the Rapid Top sander,machined from billet aluminum. It fits together real tight,has a plastic insert on the shaft clamp,to eliminate the scarring that usually comes as a result of using this type of tool. I never got anything but perfect results using it. Oddly enough,the billet aluminum one came in the box that the former owner of my lathe had all the tooling in. I used it several times,before I was ready to try and put a shaft in the lathe and face it,not wanting to ruin my own shafts or a customers. I had been putting on my own tips for years by hand,with results you could not tell from one done on a lathe,but was not stupid enough to just throw a 200 dollar shaft in there and try and cut a tip down with the cutting tool. I saw how other people cut them down,and practiced those techniques with cheap tips like you find at Wal-Mart,and installed them on dowel rods,also found at Wal-Mart. For practicing on installing ferrules,I used an old,horribly warped Meucci,and used cheap cotton fiber ferrules,like a house cue but 1" long. I bought the ferrules from a guy that does repairs,but BADLY. Since people have seen the work I've done for my cutomers,he hasn't been asked to put one on by anyone that knows me. Tommy D.

dooziexx
11-08-2002, 09:36 AM
So if I send my shaft out for the tip to be replaced to a cue repair guy, would he place install the pad for me if I told him I that the ferrule is ivory?

WesK
11-08-2002, 01:05 PM
Instead of the masking tape, you might want to try using a PostIt note or two.

wes

SpiderMan
11-08-2002, 05:33 PM
It will be up to you to tell him what you want. If it's an ivory ferrule, I'd definitely ask for a pad. I use them on all ferrules because I like them, but still the bottom line is that I put on what someone asks for unless it just doesn't make sense, then I question them about it.

The materials cost of the pad is inconsequential, it's just a little more work. Myself, I always put the pad on with epoxy (not super glue) because I expect it to have to last through several tip changes.

In order to save time, I pre-attach pads to a small number of all my standard tips to have them ready for installation on a cue. I actually use epoxy for both attachments (pad-tip and pad-ferrule).

SpiderMan

SpiderMan
11-08-2002, 05:33 PM
It will be up to you to tell him what you want. If it's an ivory ferrule, I'd definitely ask for a pad. I use them on all ferrules because I like them, but still the bottom line is that I put on what someone asks for unless it just doesn't make sense, then I question them about it.

The materials cost of the pad is inconsequential, it's just a little more work. Myself, I always put the pad on with epoxy (not super glue) because I expect it to have to last through several tip changes.

In order to save time, I pre-attach pads to a small number of all my standard tips to have them ready for installation on a cue. I actually use epoxy for both attachments (pad-tip and pad-ferrule).

SpiderMan

Chris Cass
11-08-2002, 11:18 PM
Thanks Tommy,

Interesting to say the least. I'll have to try working with it a little more to take the sloppyness out of it. I lined the clamp with felt but the top piece has slop. Anyway, thanks and I'll give it some thought.

Right now I'm making a portable cue holder for a project. It sucks but it's only fun spare time invested and a few bucks.

Regards,

C.C.