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Fred Agnir
11-06-2002, 10:52 AM
The guy who owns the bar was complaining that no matter what he did, he could never get the tables level. I told him that it could be the cueball out-of-balance. He'd never heard of this, so when we rolled the object balls straight, but couldn't roll the cueball straight, he became a believer. So much of a believer that now he tells me all about how cueballs can be out of balance. Imagine that.

Anyway, he bought new cueballs that rolled straight. A friend of mine decided to crush the bad cueballs with whatever specialized press he has to see just what makes them tick. Many people think that there is a steel ball or slug in there. The Valley folks had reported to me that there is a metal "cage" that is inserted into the cast mold. Well, now there's no guessing as to what is in there.

http://home.earthlink.net/~ohagnir/_uimages/Inside.JPG (http://home.earthlink.net/~ohagnir/_uimages/Inside.JPG)


If you can't tell by the picture, it looks like 14 AWG wire, coiled at roughly a 10 mm pitch with the diameter of the coils increasing towards the center to look like a spherical spring, of sorts.


Hope this helps,

Fred

Paul_Mon
11-06-2002, 11:03 AM
Thats pretty cool Fred. Next time stick it in the microwave and take a picture. Seriously though, what is the purpose of the coil?

Paul

Eric.
11-06-2002, 11:10 AM
Thanks Fred! You're a man after my own heart - http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=ccbboard&Number=33901& page=&view=&sb=&o=

Now I know why some bar cueballs roll tru and some don't but what I really want to know is:

Does the metal coil improve reception/transmission?

Eric >my shoe is ringing

Wally_in_Cincy
11-06-2002, 11:13 AM
holy crap.

That explains my seemingly paranormal experiences with those balls.

BTW we have now bisected a Predator BK and smashed a bar cue ball. What next in "CCB Forensic Billiards Research"?

11-06-2002, 11:24 AM
very interesting, fred.

good work.

dan

11-06-2002, 11:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Paul_Mon:</font><hr> Thats pretty cool Fred. Next time stick it in the microwave and take a picture. Seriously though, what is the purpose of the coil?

Paul



the cover story is that the ball activates the magnetic flap(?) to allow the c.b. to pass the bucket and return to you.

really, i think it's so the owner can install the optional "c.b. vector control unit." this package, sold separately by valley consists of 8 electromagnetic units, set in the rails and activated by remote joystick. to quote the literature it's "for entertainment purposes only."

dan...it's been alleged that i installed the brunswick optional "pad-adjuster servo" unit but i'm denying everything. it's just a convenient way to keep the table level.

Ross
11-06-2002, 03:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> holy crap.

That explains my seemingly paranormal experiences with those balls.

BTW we have now bisected a Predator BK and smashed a bar cue ball. What next in "CCB Forensic Billiards Research"?

<hr></blockquote>

I've always wondered about the details of Diamond table table construction. Would someone please follow the now standard CCB cutaway procedure with their table and post the pictures? Thanks in advance!

Fred Agnir
11-06-2002, 04:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: houstondan:</font><hr> the cover story is that the ball activates the magnetic flap(?) to allow the c.b. to pass the bucket and return to you.<hr></blockquote>
In a nutshell, there are two tracks. One for the cueball, one for the object balls. A magnet pulls the cueball to the cueball track.

Fred

Eric.
11-06-2002, 04:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Ross:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Wally_in_Cincy:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; holy crap.

That explains my seemingly paranormal experiences with those balls.

BTW we have now bisected a Predator BK and smashed a bar cue ball. What next in "CCB Forensic Billiards Research"?

&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I've always wondered about the details of Diamond table table construction. Would someone please follow the now standard CCB cutaway procedure with their table and post the pictures? Thanks in advance! <hr></blockquote>

Seems like we here at the CCB have our own "Myth Destroyer". While not as high tech as Iron Willie, it still get's the job done. If anyone needs a mystery solved on a piece of equipment, we can handle it (although the piece may not be reusable). But that's the price you pay in the name of Science!

Eric &gt;big hammer or big screwdriver?

Scott Lee
11-06-2002, 04:26 PM
Ross...Sorry no pics, but I have disassembled COMPLETELY the Diamond Pro table, and know it intimately...more than I want! LOL Did you need something specific?

Scott

Rod
11-06-2002, 05:29 PM
Fred,
Some time ago, last year or two, I mentioned it is rare to find one that rolls straight. You said you had a couple that did. Do you still have them? If so hold on to them they might become a collectors item!/ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

I was told years ago they were a caged ball. My belief before that was they were a plugged ball with a steel ball inside. I come by that assumption by a round hole drilled in the ball that always turned a darker shade, yellowish in color. I've not noticed that lately, not that I've really paid that much attention or played with them. I still wonder if there was a different process of inserting a metal ball. I'm not talking about recent here, this dates back a number of years. Then again if it was a steel ball in the center it might take a pretty strong magnet to pull it off the track to the return. Just curious if you or anyone has ever questioned Valley about an older process.

One has to question that design, at least I do. Those coils are subject to expansion and contraction during casting. This would be similar to a bimetal spring in a thermostat. No matter what the wire size is that has to exist. I seriously doubt the cage is manufactured concentric or in balance anyway so part of the problem exists before the casting. I don't know the process but I have to wonder how that cage is centered. The finish process and keeping it centered leaves more questons. In my estimation I don't know how one would ever roll straight. I have to admit I have seen a small number that do roll straight. The planets must have been in perfect alignment on that day of production. Well at least they only roll weird when they slow up, course that's after every shot! LOL

While I'm on the subject, those crazy cue balls are really out of balance. Of course that's the purpose but it seems they must be plugged or maybe cast with a steel ball way off center. Those things will roll around in a circle or turn around and come back at you at a slower speed. When we had a Super Bowl party we used those balls for the tournament. Everyone had a blast cause you never knew what direction it would go.

~~~ rod has a dislike for Valley c/balls and puts in the category of the Sardo!

Paul_Mon
11-06-2002, 05:47 PM
You threw me off track when you said that it look like 14 gauge wire. My brain thought it was copper and the photo isn't clear enough to tell that it wasn't. Actually make sense that it is a coil, easier for the material to flow around and it is probably heated prior to fill.

Paul

Greg/Diamond
11-06-2002, 09:40 PM
Ross,
I'd be very happy to give you any details you want about the Diamond Table construction, especially the new Smart Table and explain how it recognizes a regular cue ball that rolls straight. You can call me personally at 812-989-6665 or contact me at greg1849@aol.com.......Greg/Diamond

11-06-2002, 09:49 PM
About a year ago I was playing 8-ball on a 9 ft. bar table. Guy racked em up, I broke, cueball shattered in pieces ... Def. a sledgehammer break! But suprisingly in this brand of barbox cueball ... there were no wire cages or anything of the sort ... It was just solid white material ... in pieces lol

Probably first and last time I bust a cueball breaking

11-06-2002, 11:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Fred Agnir:</font><hr> The guy who owns the bar was complaining that no matter what he did, he could never get the tables level. I told him that it could be the cueball out-of-balance. He'd never heard of this, so when we rolled the object balls straight, but couldn't roll the cueball straight, he became a believer. So much of a believer that now he tells me all about how cueballs can be out of balance. Imagine that.

Anyway, he bought new cueballs that rolled straight. A friend of mine decided to crush the bad cueballs with whatever specialized press he has to see just what makes them tick. Many people think that there is a steel ball or slug in there. The Valley folks had reported to me that there is a metal "cage" that is inserted into the cast mold. Well, now there's no guessing as to what is in there.

http://home.earthlink.net/~ohagnir/_uimages/Inside.JPG (http://home.earthlink.net/~ohagnir/_uimages/Inside.JPG)


If you can't tell by the picture, it looks like 14 AWG wire, coiled at roughly a 10 mm pitch with the diameter of the coils increasing towards the center to look like a spherical spring, of sorts.


Hope this helps,

Fred
<hr></blockquote>

Thanks, Fred.. that actually helps, so I don't have to tell people there is a "metal rod" that make it roll funny. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Next, I have a theory that the MUD cueball, the one that is the same size as the rest, but weighs between a ton, and a ton and a half, is actually made of lead on the inside. Can get you one and find out how they make it so heavy? Is it just heavier plastic, or more condensed? I don't know.

11-07-2002, 12:01 AM
If you can't tell by the picture, it looks like 14 AWG wire, coiled at roughly a 10 mm pitch with the diameter of the coils increasing towards the center to look like a spherical spring, of sorts.


Hope this helps,

Fred
&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Thanks, Fred.. that actually helps, so I don't have to tell people there is a "metal rod" that make it roll funny. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Next, the MUD cueball, Can get you one and find out how they make it so heavy? Is it just heavier plastic, or more condensed? I don't know. <hr></blockquote>

hey fred, great picture. next time, if you could finish it off and show the wire gut, s that would be great. i think you've got a lot of people enjoying the heck outta what you're doing. i wouldn't know how to find someone with the equipment to do that.

great work.

dan...iz 'dis a grate plaze ur wat??

11-07-2002, 12:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> About a year ago I was playing 8-ball on a 9 ft. bar table. Guy racked em up, I broke, cueball shattered in pieces ... Def. a sledgehammer break! But suprisingly in this brand of barbox cueball ... there were no wire cages or anything of the sort ... It was just solid white material ... in pieces lol

Probably first and last time I bust a cueball breaking <hr></blockquote>

i'm guessing you had to have one of those old oversized balls. it makes sense that they would be softer as they had to get it up to a size large enough to work while trying to hold the weight down. seems like that would provide a less solid ball.

dan...more of this kinda stuff, please.

11-07-2002, 12:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Greg/Diamond:</font><hr> Ross,
I'd be very happy to give you any details you want about the Diamond Table construction, especially the new Smart Table and explain how it recognizes a regular cue ball that rolls straight. You can call me personally at 812-989-6665 or contact me at greg1849@aol.com.......Greg/Diamond <hr></blockquote>

greg, welcome back.

i'm guessing that the "smart table" is reading the light off of rolling balls.

any idea what the deal is about you guys being original on something with simonis??

dan

Fred Agnir
11-07-2002, 07:14 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rod:</font><hr>
I was told years ago they were a caged ball. My belief before that was they were a plugged ball with a steel ball inside. <hr></blockquote>
I reported here about 4-5 years ago that the Valley folks told me that the cueballs that have no "plug" vestige have the metal cage. Tony Matthews says he's broken one of these apart and it indeed has a cage, not a spring. I've got one of these balls, but until I find another one, I'm not about to split it open to confirm it.

Fred

Wally_in_Cincy
11-07-2002, 07:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Ross:</font><hr>
I've always wondered about the details of Diamond table table construction. Would someone please follow the now standard CCB cutaway procedure with their table and post the pictures? Thanks in advance! <hr></blockquote>

I've contacted Greg privately and he has agreed to send me one for research purposes. I will personally destroy it and post the pics...........seriously

You what? You don't believe me? dammit, busted again LOL