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bluewolf
11-11-2002, 11:12 AM
I have been missing all these shots. Today I tried something different.. I saw the ball going into the pocket before going down on the shot and during the preshot routine. I sunk 10 balls in a row of medium difficulty cut before getting all excited and going to get ww. This is what I told him:

"My left brain has aiming errors. When I see the ball going in, my right brain takes over and corrects the aiming mistakes"

Now what do my fellow ccbers think of this theory?

bw

TomBrooklyn
11-11-2002, 11:59 AM
I am unaware of using any particular part of my brain. I think I generally use my whole brain; but I have never measured this, and wouldn't know how to go about doing so. If I had to guess, I would say I probably use the outer part of my brain when I am thinking lightly, and start using the inner core more when I'm thinking more intensely. But it might be the other way around, also. In general, I try to prevent any injury to my head so as not to rattle my brain.

How can one determine what part of their brain is being used the most? Is there an increase in blood flow to certain parts that can be tracked with infared scanners or MCI scans or something? Perhaps someone will set up such a machine at a poolhall so the players can monitor their brain activity and make the appropriate adjustments.

=TB=

bluewolf
11-11-2002, 12:07 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: TomBrooklyn:</font><hr> I am unaware of using any particular part of my brain. I think I generally use my whole brain; but I have never measured this, and wouldn't know how to go about doing so. If I had to guess, I would say I probably use the outer part of my brain when I am thinking lightly, and start using the inner core more when I'm thinking more intensely. But it might be the other way around, also. In general, I try to prevent any injury to my head so as not to rattle my brain.

How can one determine what part of their brain is being used the most? Is there an increase in blood flow to certain parts that can be tracked with infared scanners or MCI scans or something? Perhaps someone will set up such a machine at a poolhall so the players can monitor their brain activity and make the appropriate adjustments.

=TB= <hr></blockquote>

Ahhhh. Tom, of course you are right. Another way to look at it would be to compare the analytical/language part to the non language,spatial part. I use left brain and right brain rather loosely to try to communicate my thoughts. Perhaps there is a better way to say what I said in a less confusing way, but I do not know the words.

bw

Cueless Joey
11-11-2002, 12:28 PM
Visualize the cb a foot from ob and ob a foot from the pocket. I don't think it'd matter what side of the brain is doing what.

Ludba
11-11-2002, 12:51 PM
You may be right about the left/right brain theory, but I would find more scientific evidence to support the theory before attesting to its truth. I do however very much agree that visualization is a key to success at practically any sport. Some professional basketball players visualize winning a game the night before it takes place. Pool is probably geared more towards visualization than most other games, because of the number of actions that occur subsequent to your body movement (e.g. cue ball travels, hits an object ball, object ball travels, hits a rail, rebounds, travel another direction, falls in a pocket).

A sports psychologist would probably agree with you in general terms. You learn the game analytically, but it's a spatial game and you need to play it spatially to play well. For me this has meant turning off the analysis during a match. It's the driving analogy (I think Phil Capelle used this one): you learn how to drive a standard by steps, but after you've learned how, if you try to think about it, you'll probably grind a gear.

phil in sofla
11-11-2002, 06:38 PM
I think you're on to something important, but the exact reason it works is not that important (and maybe cannot be determined).

I don't know how you normally aim (ghost ball, contact points, ball fractions, etc.). But a lot of people eventually aim by the line they can see in visualization, don't particularly pay attention to the contact points on the object ball or the cue ball, and almost rely on a kind of non-aiming aim, which is a visual/spatial kind of thing that the mind seems to learn by experience.

I use the contact points on the two balls myself, but I'm noticing more and more that I'm ignoring the cue ball, concentrating only on the contact point on the OB, and letting my mind make whatever line it wants to get the cue ball to hit the contact point. Using the contact to contact method also points up that still, as far as my conscious judgment goes, the line seems off on certain shots compared to what I would think it should be, but IS correct by result when I shoot down that line.

Having experimented with the ball fraction aim method, I'm now convinced that those lines aren't always going to work exactly, and you end up making unconscious corrections, slightly more or less, so that they do work.

bluewolf
11-11-2002, 08:21 PM
I think that it works for two reasons. It blocks or turns of negative thoughts or lack of confidence in my brain. And just like when I meditate and visualize a pleasant place,when I put a picture in my mind,the constant hammering on thoughts stops. This allows my body to carry out the techniques I have learned.

bw

Chris Cass
11-12-2002, 01:18 AM
BW,

You must use both and be able to switch back and forth. The left being the analytical side and the right being the imaginary side. First you analyze what you have to do. Next you visualize what has to be done, r side. Then, it's time to get down on the ball and do it, r side. You simply put it all togather. Notice how I said, "then get down?" All the L/ brain activity is done while standing. Some R/ brain while visualizing. The rest is all R/ brain. R/ brain being the feely side.

If caught in the L/ brain when down on the shot, you have to stand up and regroup. Like being sharked. That instantly throws you in the L/ brain mode.

C.C.~~does the same.....

bluewolf
11-12-2002, 03:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> BW,

You must use both and be able to switch back and forth. The left being the analytical side and the right being the imaginary side. First you analyze what you have to do. Next you visualize what has to be done, r side. Then, it's time to get down on the ball and do it, r side. You simply put it all togather. Notice how I said, "then get down?" All the L/ brain activity is done while standing. Some R/ brain while visualizing. The rest is all R/ brain. R/ brain being the feely side.

If caught in the L/ brain when down on the shot, you have to stand up and regroup. Like being sharked. That instantly throws you in the L/ brain mode.

C.C.~~does the same.....[ QUOTE ]


thats the same thing randy g said but I guess I couldnt do it until yesterday

bw



<hr /></blockquote>

Wally_in_Cincy
11-12-2002, 08:00 AM
Howdy bee dubya,

Rather than left/right brain I believe it is concious/subconcious. When you play that movie in your mind of the shot being made your subconcious mind thinks it actually happened and it relays the required messages to your concious mind to execute the shot. I would type more but I don't have time.

And yes it works. I do it all the time on tuff or important shots.

bluewolf
11-12-2002, 04:23 PM
thanks wally. interesting idea.

bw

Ludba
11-12-2002, 05:37 PM
I disagree with your explanation. The conscious/subconscious psychological explanations are a little outdated. After the Freudians died out, psychologists changed subconscious to "unconscious" and have gradually stopped using it altogether. Subconscious/conscious is more of a pop psych explanation.

I agree with your general idea that we have to internalize the pool-playing process. But it's more about muscle memory, a much more recent sports psychology paradigm. When you learn how to shoot, you're telling your arm how to execute, but when you're competing, your mind has to shut up so your arm can do the talking.

Perhaps we're pointing to the same animal, but you're calling a horse what i call a chicken.

But the left/right brain explanation is a little closer to the truth than conscious/subconscious. Bw's theory seems to overexplain, while yours makes it seem more magical than it really is. We can't quantify "subconscious," but we can label left or right brain tendencies. The reason I think muscle memory theory works best is that it has the most biological evidence as it relates to sports psychology.

Wally_in_Cincy
11-13-2002, 07:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ludba:</font><hr>
Perhaps we're pointing to the same animal, but you're calling a horse what i call a chicken.<hr /></blockquote>

call it an aardvark if you want...........it works /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Chris Cass
11-13-2002, 09:42 AM
BW,

RandyG. is a Master instructor. You should take every word he says into deep thought. Guess, I got lucky. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Regards,

C.C.~~RandyG. knows the deal....

Rod
11-13-2002, 01:36 PM
CC, I went to have a sensor installed with an on and off switch. After a very short discussion the Doc's told me, you have an intermittent short! /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif The finding was I'm going to use one side or the other or none sometimes. I never know which side I'm using, I'm fine with that. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Ludba
11-23-2002, 12:18 AM
Wanted to add this link to this topic.

http://www.mindtools.com/basisflw.html

I was looking at some sports psychology sites, and I remembered that we had all thrown around our view of what's going on with the left/right brain thing, but most of us were either completely off base or not completely on. Below is an excerpt from an expert:

"The Left Brain (often called the Analyser) tends to be dominant, as skills it is responsible for are most intensively trained during education. This part of the brain analyses and understands new skills, and examines existing technique or attitudes for errors and faults. This part of the brain is highly effective during training in improving technique.

The Right Brain (called the Integrator) controls the best performance of a skill by integrating all the components of the skill into one flowing movement in which all the isolated components of the skill work together."

Scott Lee
11-23-2002, 09:56 AM
Laura...Do you remember me talking about visualizing shooting the shot perfectly...JUST before the last backswing, where you stroke through the CB? Pause...ask the questions...get the right answers...visualize everything happening the way you want it to...slow backswing...execute!

Scott

Sid_Vicious
11-23-2002, 10:02 AM
"JUST before the last backswing, where you stroke through the CB?"

Scott,,,That part ain't working for me over the duration of a game(imo.) My body has gone into auto pilot once down on my shot, except for checking my body sensors for position. Thinking after down usually causes over thinking, so I see all of the perfection you mention just before the pre-shot routine. ONLY thing I do consider after down on a shot is thinking shape, and I probaly could cut that out and be better for it...sid

11-23-2002, 10:20 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> I have been missing all these shots. Today I tried something different.. I saw the ball going into the pocket before going down on the shot and during the preshot routine. I sunk 10 balls in a row of medium difficulty cut before getting all excited and going to get ww. This is what I told him:
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;"My left brain has aiming errors. When I see the ball going in, my right brain takes over and corrects the aiming mistakes"
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;Now what do my fellow ccbers think of this theory?
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;bw <hr /></blockquote>


You should visualize the whole shot, not just the ball going in, but exactly how the cueball reacts off the cushion, exactly what english and stroke will get you where you need to go.

Sometimes playing the shot backwards helps.. start with where you want to leave yourself, then look at the angle you have, then draw a mental route to do it in the easiest and highest percentage way possible.

I think that planning the leave in your mind will help you make the shot.. not only does it add some priority to the shot itself and making it, but by seeing the angle off the tangent line, you'll easier know exactly where to aim the cueball off the object ball.

I think after a while, you quit worrying about making shots, and only worry about the position afterwards... but only after you know how to make all the shots with relative ease.

Scott Lee
11-23-2002, 11:50 AM
sid...I like to compare the visualization process to a basketball player shooting a freethrow. They stand at the line, bouncing the ball. They roll it in their hands a couple of times. As they do these things, they are visualizing themselves hitting nothing but net...then they just let their bodies do what their mind knows it can. Pool can be the same way, imo. However, it doesn't have to be just as I describe...your way will work too, as will many other methods. As we all know, work with what works for you! For those looking for direction, I will gladly offer suggestions.

Scott

#### leonard
11-25-2002, 08:34 AM
I remember reading an article on 3 groups of basketball players. Group one practiced free throws everyday for 2 weeks, group 2 just practiced mentally and group 3 didn't practice or mentally practice. The group that mentally practice held it own with the group that practiced and the non practice/non mental group was way behind.

I have posted before of playing with Joe Canton for nearly 2 years when he opened his poolroom in Troy and after 2 or 3 months of just racking balls I mentally started copying his stroke while he was shooting and after a year or so he was racking balls for me. So it is possible to asssume someones stroke if your diligent.####

Ludba
11-25-2002, 01:21 PM
I remember hearing about that same experiment. You should really check out this website.

http://www.mindtools.com/page11.html

"Much of the process of learning and improving sporting reflexes and skills is the laying down, modification, and strengthening of nerve pathways in our body and brains. Some of these nerve pathways lie outside our brain in nerves of the body and spine. These need to be trained by physical training.

Many of the pathways, however, lie within the brain. These pathways can be effectively trained by the use of mental techniques such as imagery and simulation."

bluewolf
11-25-2002, 06:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> BW,

RandyG. is a Master instructor. You should take every word he says into deep thought. Guess, I got lucky. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Regards,

C.C.~~RandyG. knows the deal.... <hr /></blockquote>

Yes, Randy gave me a lot of knowlege when I was at his pool school. He said 'standing equals thinking" he said right before a person goes down on a shot, they have this 'switch' which switches us from the analytical to the spatial, then when we go down there should be no thinking, if there is, you should stand back up again. I hope I am not misquoting him. I got so much knowlege though, a month later, I am still having those 'ah hah' experiences from what we were exposed to.

blu

bluewolf
11-25-2002, 06:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> Laura...Do you remember me talking about visualizing shooting the shot perfectly...JUST before the last backswing, where you stroke through the CB? Pause...ask the questions...get the right answers...visualize everything happening the way you want it to...slow backswing...execute!

Scott <hr /></blockquote>

scott,

I remember the questions very well and yes visualizing but i guesss i was focussed on memorizing the questions. but remember how long it took you just to work on my stroke and follow through. The stroke you taught and the questions, that was the first time I had heard any of it and gosh i had never heard of putting the cue stick down on the cloth, and the finish position(what randy calls home). everything you were trying to teach me was completely alien and by the time our lesson was over, I felt like I was 'brain dead'! Then before I went to 'pool school'6 weeks later, I had practiced your drills and especially the stroke every single day.

If it were not for what you taught me, I would have been lost in 'pool school' and ye gads,i might have flunked out.

thanks.

blu

Scott Lee
11-26-2002, 12:57 AM
Dick...The human mind is a curious beast, that we know SO little about! The majority of us are only using 2-3% of our brain's capacity...Einstein, a devoted genius, only used 10%! Imagine if we could harness all that unused capacity. We could MAYBE just move the balls with our mind! Now THAT would be some serious pool shootin'! LOL
Imagine NEVER missing, and NEVER scratching!...Unheard of, even with the best pros!

Scott

#### leonard
11-27-2002, 06:26 PM
I played Johnny Ervolino a series of straight pol games during a tourney and scratched once. I only knew that was because he told me that was my first scratch.####