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11-12-2002, 05:27 PM
When using draw, should your cue be parallel to the playing surface or angled downward on the cue ball. Or does it make little difference? I've read that the cue should always be level with the table, but I've also seen great players like Minnesota Fats hit it with a downward angle.

smfsrca
11-12-2002, 07:22 PM
First of all, exactly where have you seen Rudolf Walderone (aka Minnesota Fats)? He's been dead since January 18, 1996.

Except for certain specialty shots or awkward conditions the majority of all shots should be made with the cue as level as possible. This allows for a smooth straight follow through. Also, when you elevate the cue, any off center contact you make with the cue ball will cause it to swerve, making the accuracy of your stroke more difficult.

Steve on CA

Rod
11-12-2002, 08:06 PM
Steve, this person may have been alive since 1926! LOL

Anyway I agree, good explanation. I've always said when I see the butt in the air, your shooting a masse shot. Extremes of this is generally when the c/b is near a rail. Then they use a jacked up rail bridge, whack it, the c/b bounces and goes nowhere, plus they may miss the shot.

Chris Cass
11-12-2002, 09:03 PM
Hi ddb182,

Yes, slightly elevate your cue till you learn how the do the same with it level. Make sure you follow through the cb straight. Hit the cb two cue tips below center and grip lightly. Good luck.

Regards,

C.C.

Fred Agnir
11-13-2002, 08:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ddb182:</font><hr> When using draw, should your cue be parallel to the playing surface or angled downward on the cue ball. Or does it make little difference? I've read that the cue should always be level with the table, but I've also seen great players like Minnesota Fats hit it with a downward angle. <hr /></blockquote>
My advice has always been that if you have a problem drawing the ball well, especially with medium and short draw, then elevating slightly has helped a number of players. I'm not saying to jack way up, but just slightly. If it works, use it. There are decent reasons why it helps, but debating them is fruitless.

Incidentally, nobody shoots with the stick level to the table. It's impossible. Trying to do so is a folly, IMNSHO.

A comon challenge draw shot can be found in the Wei Table Shot Archive:

http://www.omniscium.com/artsy/ShotArchive/ShowShot.asp?ShotID=15

I find that many people will have an easier time with this shot if they elevate, rather than trying to keep the cue as level as possible. YMMV.

Fred

Ralph S.
11-13-2002, 08:40 AM
One of the most important things to remember, in my opinion, is that any time you jack up on the cue bad things start to happen. This usually means errant shots but can and sometimes does lead to a bad habit. LOL and we all know those die hard. To answer you directly, try to keep the cue as level as possible.
Ralph S.

Alfie
11-13-2002, 09:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> My advice has always been that if you have a problem drawing the ball well, especially with medium and short draw, then elevating slightly has helped a number of players. I'm not saying to jack way up, but just slightly. If it works, use it. There are decent reasons why it helps, but debating them is fruitless.
<hr /></blockquote> Is there any downside to this method?

Fred Agnir
11-13-2002, 10:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Alfie:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> My advice has always been that if you have a problem drawing the ball well, especially with medium and short draw, then elevating slightly has helped a number of players. I'm not saying to jack way up, but just slightly. If it works, use it. There are decent reasons why it helps, but debating them is fruitless.
<hr /></blockquote> Is there any downside to this method? <hr /></blockquote>
The biggest downside that people warn about are any errors due to eccentric hits get magnified with elevation (masse' effect, etc.). I think this is like a red herring because most of the draw shots are elevated to begin with due to the rail. If a person is having problems with accurate hits when drawing the ball with the elevation necessary to clear the rail, then they've got other issues that need resolution.

Fred

phil in sofla
11-13-2002, 11:45 AM
As has been said, certain situations require a jacked up cue to get draw, as when shooting close to or on the rail, or if you're very close to the object ball. Since such situations aren't uncommon, and cannot be shot with draw unless you're jacked up, it's worth working on the technique for those situations when they come up.

I've gotten consistent results on that by using a closed bridge, looping my first finger over the cue and bridging on the rail that way.

But then the question is, if you are not in these specialty situations, what is best? Jimmy Reid advises 'forget what you've heard about going through level, and jack up,' but he's the ONLY one I've heard or read to say that, except Fred now.

The way I view it, if you want to actually get draw, it is the stroke motion of going through the cue ball more than how level the cue is that brings the cue ball back with draw. So part of the answer is how's your stroke on these shots? If you have the stroke and the feel of this shot, staying level is preferable. If you don't, I think jacking up may give a better draw result, although at the expense of some accuracy if your hit is slightly off center, which creates masse (curve) action.

So, maybe, if you're having trouble, go with the (slightly) jacked up set up, with a goal to eventually going more level as your stroke and feel improve. Besides, as noted, 'level' is a relative term anyway, with most people's 'level' actually being a downward hit.

Alfie
11-13-2002, 04:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote phil in sofla:</font><hr> As has been said, certain situations require a jacked up cue to get draw, as when shooting close to or on the rail, or if you're very close to the object ball. [...]

But then the question is, if you are not in these specialty situations, what is best? [...]

maybe, if you're having trouble, go with the (slightly) jacked up set up, with a goal to eventually going more level as your stroke and feel improve. <hr /></blockquote>

I would learn how to draw with the level cue first because whatever the cause of the trouble is, whether it's a mistimed poke, mistimed elbow drop, fear of miscue, or something else, it is going to hurt most of your other shots as well. Then learn about jacking up.

IMO