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View Full Version : For Top 9-Ball Players - Is this true or Not?



11-20-2002, 12:32 AM
A good friend of mine, who is a pretty high stakes player in the Chicagoland area, swear to me that the top players can do something when they rack the balls to deaden the rack so the balls don't scattter good. He says even if he checks them to make sure their all froze and their straight that they still can do something with the rack. Is this true or is he just not breakeking good and looking for an excuse?

Cueless Joey
11-20-2002, 01:27 AM
It's true. Some are blatantly doing them. We have a slug rack artist in my local hall. He pounds the balls with his palm. Somehow his racks are next to dead. Also, he racks the balls a little off the opposite side where the shooter breaks.

phil in sofla
11-20-2002, 01:50 AM
Do you mean he rotates the rack, base away from the shooter's side rail, or do you mean he has a straight rack, but moved over sideways to the opposite side from the breaker?

bigbro6060
11-20-2002, 02:06 AM
in most tournaments over here we play Breaker racks but the opponent has the right to inspect the rack

smfsrca
11-20-2002, 02:39 AM
I'm not quite sure how valid this is but I rack this way anyhow. I was told this some years ago by one of the few people I listen to when it comes to pool.
From above the spot draw the rack of balls back over the spot until the one ball just rests on the spot. Do not draw the balls back until the one is below the spot and then push them back up again.
Supposedly this will prevent those explosive breaks. It may have something to do with the tension between the balls and the cloth. It may have been effective on slower nappy cloth and not as effective on fast Simonis or Granito.
You be the judge.

Steve

dddd
11-20-2002, 02:39 AM
yes it does happen,
and it happens in many levels, some due to intent some not.

CarolNYC
11-20-2002, 05:00 AM
Hi There,
Say you rack a 9-ball rack as follows:
1,3,6,8,9,5,2,4,7
If the 3,6 are not touching the 9,the balls move slower and sometimes the 9 wont even move!
Leaving the 1-ball (front) and 7-ball (back)loose from rack sends cueball flying and 7-ball is like hitting a rock!
Theres many things about the rack, and just a suggestion, NEVER EVER let the person who has the break ,rack their own balls!
Good luck-Oh,one more thing,break from the same side as the space,if its right side,break from right,if left,break from left!:)
Carol~suggests looking up some racking technique books!:)




Carol~

Sid_Vicious
11-20-2002, 08:27 AM
Carol,,,I understand in general the physics in non connecting balls not spreading, but what's the specific way that you can get a tight rack and still consistently be slugged. I once had a guy pound the one and the nine to set the balls and I was getting nuthin' to roll. The rack looked tight, but still there was no action. Where's the explanation to all of these seemingly tight, slug racks???sid

CarolNYC
11-20-2002, 09:15 AM
Sid,
Say you have a nice tight rack:
1,3,6,8,9,5,2,4,7
Your breaking from the right side rail-from this angle,the force is applied to the 1,3,8,9 than 6,5-this will cause the 4 ball to move changing the tangent line-
I usually break from the right side,but on different tables it doesnt work, so I move around until I find a good spot-Also,
if the 2,4 are NOT touching,the 9 ball drops-thats why NEVER let the breaker rack his own rack!
Maybe one day we'll be at a table and I can explain it to you better!Im not too good in describing,Im better showing!
Carol

Cueless Joey
11-20-2002, 10:20 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote phil in sofla:</font><hr> Do you mean he rotates the rack, base away from the shooter's side rail, or do you mean he has a straight rack, but moved over sideways to the opposite side from the breaker? <hr /></blockquote>
Moved sideways. He also likes rolling the balls one by one to get them "snug".

PQQLK9
11-20-2002, 11:01 AM
Not to sound like a commercial but all of this is covered in Joe Tucker's book "Racking Secrets"...Joe even lurks here sometimes.

Sid_Vicious
11-20-2002, 11:12 AM
Carol...Not to be pushy, but what about the subject of this thread... that being of somebody seemingly making a rack with all balls touching and yet it is a slug rack? I understand a little about the pack dispersion from reading Joe Tuckers book, but the question about a seemingly tight rack being created to NOT spread is intriguing to me. Hopefully it is all hoopla, otherwise I'd like to know what to look for if it isn't...sid

Ross
11-20-2002, 11:14 AM
I don't believe that there are any "secrets" to creating slug racks that don't involve leaving gaps between the balls. The balls are laying on flat cloth. You can't glue them to the cloth or make them stick together. If there are no gaps the rack will break fine.

On the other hand, gaps can be very small and difficult to see. That's why top players use their hands to create shadows to help them see tiny gaps. I guess if a player knew how to create almost imperceptible gaps in the right places he/she might be able to create slug racks that look good at first glance. But if there is a method to do this you would think the secret would have leaked out by now.

Joe Tuckers' book on racking secrets has a lot of good information on what the effects are of gaps between certain balls. Using CarolNY's racking order (front to back, left to right: 1,3,6,8,9,5,2,4,7) and breaking from the right side, he points out the importance of a continuous 1,3,9,4 sequence. The goal is to get the wing 5-ball to go into the corner pocket (the break side wing ball is the most frequently made ball). For this to happen the 4 has to get out of the way first, otherwise the wing ball will hit above the corner pocket. A tight 1,3,9,4 sequence helps this process and any gaps in the 1,6,5 sequence will also help (since this will give the 4 time to exit before the 5 starts moving). This is why you should follow CarolNY's advice to break from the side of the gap if there is one in the top few balls.

Supposedly a gap between the 2 &amp; 4 will cause the rack to feel a bit dead as well as gap between the 7 and the 2 or 4. A gap between the 2 and the 9 or the 4 and 9 will make the 9 more likely to go toward the corner pocket in the direction of the gap.

Joe's book has a lot of other good info about how to read racks and where to break from if you do see imperfect racks, so buy it if you are really interested.

Rod
11-20-2002, 11:33 AM
Quote Carol, Oh,one more thing,break from the same side as the space,if its right side,break from right,if left,break from left!:)"

Carol, That's one thing I check. I have no problem breaking from either side, both are my favorite sides. Most of the time cheap sets or whatever it's not worth the time for a re-rack so I just adjust. Something that hasn't been mentioned, I think, is dirty balls. Dirty balls break terrible even with a good rack. For those that play 14-1 or even 8 ball its very evident.

Vagabond
11-20-2002, 11:40 AM
Howdy,
Some call these racks ``mud racks``
All the balls will be touching each other and still difficult to have a good break.Phillippine players also are Known to have magic in their fingers and as a general rule,give tough racks.Cheers
vagabond

Alfie
11-20-2002, 12:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Something that hasn't been mentioned, I think, is dirty balls. Dirty balls break terrible <hr /></blockquote> other factors are very dirty, fuzzy cloth and high humidity

CarolNYC
11-20-2002, 12:17 PM
TAP,TAP,TAP!-Wordup Pool Dawg-you hit it right on the nail-thanks!
Carol~Ross,too!

11-20-2002, 12:25 PM
Many people look to see that the one is frozen to the 2 balls behind it. A rack not opening properly many times can be attributed to the back three balls not being frozen and a slick racker can hide this pretty effectively. JMO. Fred

CarolNYC
11-21-2002, 03:33 AM
How are you Rod,
Its always a pleasure conversing with you-at this last tournament, my opponent thought she was slick,so each time I checked the rack(noticed space),she gave me a snooty look,like I care, ha ha ha-it was nothing personnal, and I for damn sure ,wasnt going to tell her what i was looking for-so BAM-pocketed a ball each break-you should've seen her face! Definite kodak moment,ha ha ha
Take care!
Carol

11-21-2002, 08:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr> Sid,
Say you have a nice tight rack:
1,3,6,8,9,5,2,4,7
Your breaking from the right side rail-from this angle,the force is applied to the 1,3,8,9 than 6,5-this will cause the 4 ball to move changing the tangent line-
I usually break from the right side,but on different tables it doesnt work, so I move around until I find a good spot-Also,
if the 2,4 are NOT touching,the 9 ball drops-thats why NEVER let the breaker rack his own rack!
Maybe one day we'll be at a table and I can explain it to you better!Im not too good in describing,Im better showing!
Carol <hr /></blockquote>

---------------------------
Carol...Are you are talking about separating the back two balls "vertical"????....That is actually a racking technique used to stop people from making the wing balls....most people will look at the horizontal gaps not the vertical gaps....

Cuemage
11-21-2002, 07:30 PM
I apologize in advance if this was already said, but I didn't want to read every reply. Pat Fleming shows in his video, that if the balls are racked tighly with the NUMBERS touching, then the rack will not break along the same lines as normal (not straight in the pockets). This is due to the balls being slightly thicker where the numbers are. I have experimented with this &amp; found it to be true about 75% of the time. If you go to a tournament where top notch players are not using the Sardo, you will rarely see the numbers near the top of the ball when the player is done racking. This may be further evidence of Pat's theory. Good luck in finding your answer...

Tha Cuemage