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03-08-2002, 03:10 PM
I have read the official BCA rule on this, but the wording was rather confusing.

Here's a Scenario 1
--The object ball is frozen to a rail
--The cue ball is not frozen to any rail.
--After hitting the object ball, the object ball rolls down the table hugging the same rail. So basically, the cue ball hits the object ball and the rail more or less at the same time.

Here's the question. If the object ball stops short of the pocket and the cue ball never hits any rail other than the rail the object ball was frozen to, is it a foul?

Scenario 2
--Both the object ball and the cue ball are frozen to the same rail.
--You hit the cue ball and the cue ball travels down hugging the rail and hits the object ball.
--The object ball travels toward the pocket hugging the same rail.
If the object ball stops short of the pocket, is it a foul?

Rod
03-08-2002, 03:39 PM
Ken, Scenario 1, the c/b must hit the o/b first and then hit the rail. A rail first hit would be a foul, unless it travled to another rail.

Scenario 2, yes it's a foul.

SPetty
03-08-2002, 03:39 PM
Excellent question, Ken. I come across this every now and then, and wonder the same thing myself! Hopefully some rules gurus out there will have an official answer.

03-08-2002, 04:12 PM
Thanks for clarifying the second scenario. However, I am still confused about the scenario 1.

The way the object ball moved suggests that the cue ball struck the object ball and the rail at the same time. So is it a foul?

Rod
03-08-2002, 04:22 PM
Ken, you can usually tell if it was rail or ball first by the angle the c/b takes. If it is that close however, unless there is a ref, the shot goes to the shooter. It's the same as a split hit, if in doubt it's in favor of the shooter.

03-08-2002, 04:25 PM
Thanks Rod for clearing that up!

Ken

03-08-2002, 05:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: ken1000:</font><hr>Here's a Scenario 1
--The object ball is frozen to a rail
--The cue ball is not frozen to any rail.
--After hitting the object ball, the object ball rolls down the table hugging the same rail. So basically, the cue ball hits the object ball and the rail more or less at the same time...
<hr></blockquote>

The referee has to decide whether the cue ball hit the cushion or the ball first. Sometimes you can tell by the path of the cue ball after contact.

A more curious case is if the object ball is driven past the side pocket but not as far as the corner pocket. This is still a foul under current rules even though it clearly left the rail as it passed the side pocket.

03-08-2002, 06:07 PM
As suggested by Rod, if you can't tell which the cue ball struck first (and there is no referee) then it should be ruled favoring the shooter?

I too read about the strange rule on passing the side pocket. It is almost as strange as the one about how if you sink all the stripes on the break in 8-ball and you shot and sank the 8-ball next, you lose the game. (not that it will happen to me with my weak break :-))

PS. Are you the Bob Jewett mentioned in Robert Byrne's book?

Tom_In_Cincy
03-08-2002, 06:12 PM
Yes, that is the same Bob Jewett

Alfie
03-10-2002, 05:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Bob Jewett:</font><hr> The referee has to decide whether the cue ball hit the cushion or the ball first. Sometimes you can tell by the path of the cue ball after contact. <hr></blockquote>
A tie goes to the runner.